British/uk Pensions

[sk1max]

I am 51 now, I left England in 1989. I worked from the age of 17 to 31. Will I be eligible for a UK pension when I'm old enough for the time I worked? Anyone in a similar situation or have any good advice. Cheers.

[theoldgit]

I suppose you might get some sort of a pension based on your contributions, try this for a starter

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/state-...-calculator.asp

I have found that they are very helpful if you email them you questions.

[bikerman]

I am 51 now, I left England in 1989. I worked from the age of 17 to 31. Will I be eligible for a UK pension when I'm old enough for the time I worked? Anyone in a similar situation or have any good advice. Cheers.

Ever tried to get anything from British government departments? I should imagine you would have to have paid your NI stamps& income taxes to qualify for any pension.

[rixalex]

Yes you'll get about half a pension. If you want, you can pay for years missed or pay now on a year by year basis to bring you up to a full pension, for which you now need 30 yrs.

[endure]

The rules changed recently. To get a full pension (when you're 65) you need 30 years of contributions. Best get in touch with the Pension Service as above.

[Penkoprod]

Another thing to ponder is whatever pension you DO get will be based on 1989 level, as your pension is frozen at whatever level it is/was the day you left the country. So i suspect that when your retirement date arrives (in 14 years) it wont look to be that much, taking inflation into account.

Also, from (i think) 2010, if you leave the country as a single man, you will remain a single man in the eyes of the DWP. In other words, dont expect to marry a Thai, and get a married mans pension, or a widows pension for your wife when you pass away.

Rule Britannia, huh??

Penkoprod

[churchill]

Another thing to ponder is whatever pension you DO get will be based on 1989 level, as your pension is frozen at whatever level it is/was the day you left the country. So i suspect that when your retirement date arrives (in 14 years) it wont look to be that much, taking inflation into account.

Also, from (i think) 2010, if you leave the country as a single man, you will remain a single man in the eyes of the DWP. In other words, dont expect to marry a Thai, and get a married mans pension, or a widows pension for your wife when you pass away.

Rule Britannia, huh??

Penkoprod

I think this is incorrect - Your pension is frozen from the time you start to draw it and is not calculated from the time you left the UK .

[jbaldwin]

Another thing to ponder is whatever pension you DO get will be based on 1989 level, as your pension is frozen at whatever level it is/was the day you left the country. So i suspect that when your retirement date arrives (in 14 years) it wont look to be that much, taking inflation into account.

Also, from (i think) 2010, if you leave the country as a single man, you will remain a single man in the eyes of the DWP. In other words, dont expect to marry a Thai, and get a married mans pension, or a widows pension for your wife when you pass away.

Rule Britannia, huh??

Penkoprod

This is not correct. If you are already overseas then it is based on the level when you first become eligible for the state pension. Thereafter it is not increased with inflation

[theoldgit]

Your pension is frozen from the time you start to draw it and is not calculated from the time you left the UK .

You are correct, as well as being too quick.

[Penkoprod]

Ok, does that apply to those "soon to depart the fatherland" too?

Penkoprod

[prodriver]

I am 51 now, I left England in 1989. I worked from the age of 17 to 31. Will I be eligible for a UK pension when I'm old enough for the time I worked? Anyone in a similar situation or have any good advice. Cheers.

Yes you will be eligible for a UK pension when you reach retirement age. To get a full basic pension one has to have paid enough full rate National Insurance contributions for 30 of those years. The current basic State Pension is £95.25. For each qualifying year you would be entitled to 1/30th of the basic State Pension. You may also be entitled to an additional pension (SERPS) and also Graduated Retirement Benefit (GRB). You would need to contact the Pensions Service for more details. You can also get a forecast from HM Revenue & Customs at Longbenton, Newcastle upon Tyne. Phone number: ++44 191 2257877 quoting your National Insurance number.

Hope that helps.

[ELVIS790]

Also, ive heard mixed reports on this BUT.........yiu cant take your pension and enjoy your pension years in Thailand, or anywhere else outside of europe. So if/when you get your pension, just dont declare youre moving to thailand to spend it there as they will freeze pending appeal.

There is on bloke i know off who declared he was living in thailand, they froze his pension pending appeal, it still hadnt been delt with 2years later and now living in laos as its cheaper than thailand and his life savings will only last hom "so-long".

The british government are thinking of bringing in o.a.p's with random appointments to make sure there still in this country. Also of trying to bring o.a.ps in once a month to sihn for pensions.

[tasasc]

Also, from (i think) 2010, if you leave the country as a single man, you will remain a single man in the eyes of the DWP. In other words, dont expect to marry a Thai, and get a married mans pension, or a widows pension for your wife when you pass away.

Rule Britannia, huh??

Penkoprod

Is there a source for this potentially worrying information?

[thaimate]

Also, from (i think) 2010, if you leave the country as a single man, you will remain a single man in the eyes of the DWP. In other words, dont expect to marry a Thai, and get a married mans pension, or a widows pension for your wife when you pass away.

Rule Britannia, huh??

Penkoprod

Is there a source for this potentially worrying information?

from april the 6th 2010 you will have to claim for your wife it will not be automatic ,however it does not matter who or where you are married to ,as long as it is legal and registered you can claim for your wife ,time consuming but backdated to retirement age .

i become 65 in march 2010 and the wife has a nat ins no from when we livesd in britain ,just think if my parents had waited a few more weeks i wouldnt have got the married mans allowence automatically.

as for bringing in o a ps to sign for their pensions ,what a vote winner ,cant see millions of pensioners trooping to sign on can you?

[theoldgit]

Also, I've heard mixed reports on this BUT.........you cannot take your pension and enjoy your pension years in Thailand, or anywhere else outside of Europe. So if/when you get your pension, just don't declare you're moving to Thailand to spend it there as they will freeze pending appeal.

There is on bloke i know off who declared he was living in Thailand, they froze his pension pending appeal, it still hadn't been dealt with 2years later and now living in Laos as its cheaper than Thailand and his life savings will only last him "so-long".

The British government are thinking of bringing in o.a.p's with random appointments to make sure there still in this country. Also of trying to bring o.a.p's in once a month to sign for pensions.

Sorry you have been misinformed, you can draw your retirement pension in any country in the world, there is a department that deals with overseas pensions, they will even pay your pension directly into a foreign bank account in some countries - Thailand is not one of those countries, but there are ways round it if you no longer have a UK bank account.

When you leave the UK your pension is frozen at the rate when you leave, there are exceptions to this, Philippines and the USA for example.

Edit: Having read your post again, I'm not sure if I have understood you correctly. Yes, they freeze your pension if you declare that you are living in Thailand, it's not pending an appeal, you tell them and they freeze it. If you don't declare that you are living overseas and they are still paying the UK rate then it's unlawful, if and when they find out, you will need to face the consequences.

Edited July 2, 2009 by theoldgit

[Penkoprod]

Also, I've heard mixed reports on this BUT.........you cannot take your pension and enjoy your pension years in Thailand, or anywhere else outside of Europe. So if/when you get your pension, just don't declare you're moving to Thailand to spend it there as they will freeze pending appeal.

There is on bloke i know off who declared he was living in Thailand, they froze his pension pending appeal, it still hadn't been dealt with 2years later and now living in Laos as its cheaper than Thailand and his life savings will only last him "so-long".

The British government are thinking of bringing in o.a.p's with random appointments to make sure there still in this country. Also of trying to bring o.a.p's in once a month to sign for pensions.

Sorry you have been misinformed, you can draw your retirement pension in any country in the world, there is a department that deals with overseas pensions, they will even pay your pension directly into a foreign bank account in some countries - Thailand is not one of those countries, but there are ways round it if you no longer have a UK bank account.

When you leave the UK your pension is frozen at the rate when you leave, there are exceptions to this, Philippines and the USA for example.

Its a veritable minefield huh?

Seems i was misinformed too about this "frozen" pension

I missed the "which ever comes later" part of this..........either ON LEAVING OR ENTITLEMENT

(we could do with a resident expert on this )

Penkoprod

Edited July 2, 2009 by Penkoprod

[churchill]

Also, I've heard mixed reports on this BUT.........you cannot take your pension and enjoy your pension years in Thailand, or anywhere else outside of Europe. So if/when you get your pension, just don't declare you're moving to Thailand to spend it there as they will freeze pending appeal.

There is on bloke i know off who declared he was living in Thailand, they froze his pension pending appeal, it still hadn't been dealt with 2years later and now living in Laos as its cheaper than Thailand and his life savings will only last him "so-long".

The British government are thinking of bringing in o.a.p's with random appointments to make sure there still in this country. Also of trying to bring o.a.p's in once a month to sign for pensions.

Sorry you have been misinformed, you can draw your retirement pension in any country in the world, there is a department that deals with overseas pensions, they will even pay your pension directly into a foreign bank account in some countries - Thailand is not one of those countries, but there are ways round it if you no longer have a UK bank account.

When you leave the UK your pension is frozen at the rate when you leave, there are exceptions to this, Philippines and the USA for example.

So before retirement it is wise to have a registered address and bank account in a country where the UK does not freeze pensions ? Do you have a list - I suppose EU / US / Australia / HK etc . Malaysia ?

[Penkoprod]

from april the 6th 2010 you will have to claim for your wife it will not be automatic ,however it does not matter who or where you are married to ,as long as it is legal and registered you can claim for your wife ,time consuming but backdated to retirement age .

i become 65 in march 2010 and the wife has a nat ins no from when we livesd in britain ,just think if my parents had waited a few more weeks i wouldnt have got the married mans allowence automatically.

as for bringing in o a ps to sign for their pensions ,what a vote winner ,cant see millions of pensioners trooping to sign on can you?

Yes but thats claiming for a wife you already have.

What about if you are 66 (say) and get married in Thailand AFTER you have left UK?

I am SURE there was newspaper articles and news report on television about this not so long ago now

But, all in all UK pensioners are getting SUCH a rough deal these days

Penkoprod

[churchill]

I think you will find that if you are legally married - whether overseas or in the UK you wife should be entitled to the same benefits ?

[Penkoprod]

I think you will find that if you are legally married - whether overseas or in the UK you wife should be entitled to the same benefits ?

I think the same...but i dont think what you or i think its what the government chooses to do thats pertinant here.

THEY probably see it as someone who has never contributed anything.

But they take no notice of all the crap they let in to suck our tits and give us nothing in return (or very little)

But thats not for this thread really

Penkoprod

[theoldgit]

The countries with which the UK has social security agreements with are: Barbados, Bermuda, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Croatia, Israel, Jamaica, Jersey and Guernsey, Mauritius, Montenegro, Philippines, Serbia, Turkey, USA, and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/ipc/faqs.asp

[Maizefarmer]

My understanding of this matter ….. and some questions on it as well……..

1) You are entitled to a pension no matter where in the world you are.

2) In some cases it can be paid into a foreign bank account, and in other cases it cannot (haven’t a clue which countries fall into which group).

3) Living overseas you will loose annual increases [to your pension] – is this in respect of all countries? Are there any countries in which you will receive annual increases e.g. EU countries, or commonwealth countries like Australia and/or Canada (?)

4) Note - you loose entitlement to free medical care/GP appointments/hospital treatment if you are, become or maintain “non res” status for 3years, or more (non res status is being out of the UK for 275, or more, days per year). ER/Emergency attendance or treatment remains free to anyone anytime, irrespective of status, ethnicity, race, nationality, sex … ect ect…….

What I don’t know is just how many years can one “buy back” e.g. let’s say one had paid a grand total of 3 or 5years social security over their whole working life (for whatever reason) - come retirement age, could one now decide to buy back the remaining 25 – 27, or whatever years, to get entitlement to the state pension? If I recall correctly there was a maximum of around 17years (?????) – is that correct. If not, does anyone know if there is a max number of years that one can “buy back”, and what is the max?

Another State pension question: state pension is linked to social security payments [years], not income tax payments [years] – is this correct?

Disability benefits: – are they affected if one lives overseas?

If you are receiving disability benefits, and then move overseas – will you continue to receive what you received while living in the UK?

Does anyone know if & how residential status (e.g. residentversus non-resident) would affect disability payments?

Thanks guys

Edited July 2, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[Penkoprod]

One thing i DO know is with regard to your #4

Its a case of just being out of the country for only ONE year that make you lose your entitlement to free non emergency NHS treatment

I had the actual act saved to my hard drive, but cant find it now, but there are plenty of references to it elsewhere:

"

"All patients, regardless of their status or nationality are subject to the same basic screening process and should be asked the following question about their residential status as part of the hospital registration procedure:

• Where have you lived for the last 12 months?

• Can you show that you have the right to live here?

A person who has not been living in the UK for the last 12 months is subject to the NHS (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations and can therefore expect to be asked further questions such as,

• On what date did you arrive in the UK?

• What is the basis for your stay in the UK?

Patients who are unable to provide answers to these questions, or whose answers indicate that they may not be eligible for free hospital treatment should be referred to the NHS trust's Overseas Visitors Manager, who will conduct a full interview with the patient to establish whether he/she is chargeable. However, immediately necessary treatment should never be delayed or withheld because of doubts about the patient's chargeable status or his/her ability to pay."

Taken from:

http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/health/more/living-abroad-medical-insurance-nhs-treatment-10272/

Penkoprod

[mahtin]

European Union

You have been insured in more than one Member State.

You will get a pension from every State where you were insured for at least one year. These pensions will correspond to the insured periods completed in each of the States concerned.

Edited July 2, 2009 by mahtin

[Maizefarmer]

One thing i DO know is with regard to your #4

Its a case of just being out of the country for only ONE year that make you lose your entitlement to free non emergency NHS treatment

I had the actual act saved to my hard drive, but cant find it now, but there are plenty of references to it elsewhere:

"

"All patients, regardless of their status or nationality are subject to the same basic screening process and should be asked the following question about their residential status as part of the hospital registration procedure:

• Where have you lived for the last 12 months?

• Can you show that you have the right to live here?

A person who has not been living in the UK for the last 12 months is subject to the NHS (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations and can therefore expect to be asked further questions such as,

• On what date did you arrive in the UK?

• What is the basis for your stay in the UK?

Patients who are unable to provide answers to these questions, or whose answers indicate that they may not be eligible for free hospital treatment should be referred to the NHS trust's Overseas Visitors Manager, who will conduct a full interview with the patient to establish whether he/she is chargeable. However, immediately necessary treatment should never be delayed or withheld because of doubts about the patient's chargeable status or his/her ability to pay."

Taken from:

http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/health/more/living-abroad-medical-insurance-nhs-treatment-10272/

Penkoprod

Oh great ……. thanks for the quoted correction!

Looking on the net I can find sites mentioning 3yrs, 1year/12months, some quoting 6months, and believe it or not, 2 sites quoting 3months (e.g. check out this quote: http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/Dept.asp?ID=365 - check right at the bottom of the page).

The question is one of defineation, how the def is applied, or interpreted and the wording used e.g.

- are you working outside the UK? (versus been on holiday or living permanently)

- if so where (meaning in the EU or out of the EU)? Are you on an extended holiday (and prior to that did you live in the UK for x period of time – different sites quoting different timeframes)?

- or, are you retired, and again – in the EU or outside the EU (the suggestion/implication been that in the EU one is entitled to free state care in some EU countries by virtue of the fact one is an EU citizen (?)).

So – thanks' it would appear now even less straight forward as any one webpage or other webpage says - could different NHS Trusts in different Counties (Local Government) interpretating the Government (Central Government) rule & regs in different ways?

The only thing that is clear is that there is no one rule that covers all folk in all situations - it would appear that Where/When/Why, as in EU versus Non-EU/Time Period Before/ Reason Why Out Of The UK, are all factors that can determine "how long before NHS benefits and Entitlements are lost".

[Penkoprod]

Oh great ……. thanks for the quoted correction!

Looking on the net I can find sites mentioning 3yrs, 1year/12months, some quoting 6months, and believe it or not, 2 sites quoting 3months (e.g. check out this quote: http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/Dept.asp?ID=365 - check right at the bottom of the page).

The question is one of defineation, how the def is applied, or interpreted and the wording used e.g.

- are you working outside the UK? (versus been on holiday or living permanently)

- if so where (meaning in the EU or out of the EU)? Are you on an extended holiday (and prior to that did you live in the UK for x period of time – different sites quoting different timeframes)?

- or, are you retired, and again – in the EU or outside the EU (the suggestion/implication been that in the EU one is entitled to free state care in some EU countries by virtue of the fact one is an EU citizen (?)).

So – thanks' it would appear now even less straight forward as any one webpage or other webpage says - could different NHS Trusts in different Counties (Local Government) interpretating the Government (Central Government) rule & regs in different ways?

The only thing that is clear is that there is no one rule that covers all folk in all situations - it would appear that Where/When/Why, as in EU versus Non-EU/Time Period Before/ Reason Why Out Of The UK, are all factors that can determine "how long before NHS benefits and Entitlements are lost".

In other words.........its typical government gobbledegook which is designed to confuse the average citizen so they just.............comply or accept things

Penkoprod

[Maizefarmer]

Yup - I'll go along with that - I think thats an accurate putting it.

The answer is:

"before granting NHS Care to UK citizens who have been absent from the United Kingdom for any period time, please establish from the patient the following":

CIRCUMSTANCES - please see HMSP (Her majesties Staionary & Publications - or whatever they call it nowadays), NHS ENTITLEMENTS, Book 4 CIRCUMSTANCES - pages 1 thru to 1599 - find which of the 10,000 odd circumstances apply to the patient

APPLICABLE COUNTRY - please see HMSP, NHS ENTITLEMENTS, Book 5 APPLICABLE COUNTRIES - pages 1 thru to however many coutnries there are in the world - find which of the x amount of countries apply to the patient.

TIMEFRAMES OUTSIDE UK - please see HMSP, NHS ENTITLEMENTS, Book 6 TIMEFRAMES OUTSIDE UK - pages 1 thru to 2000 to establish which timeframe is relivant. NHS Staff are advised to reffer back to BOOKS 4 and 5 to cross referance and double check their findings.

ASSESSMENT - please see HMSP, NHS ENTITLEMENTS, Book 7 ASSESSMENT - after reading thru pages 1 - 3203, staff are please to note that the amount time required to reach this stage should be such that the relivant timeframe as defined in Book 6 will no longer be applicable.

CONCLUSION & FINAL DECISION - please see HMSP, NHS ENTITLEMENTS, Book 8 CONCLUSION & FINAL DECISION - in the unlikely event that that staff are able to complete the ASSESSMENT within time, it will in any event have taken so long that the patient will now be deceased and his/her NHS ENTITLEMENTS will no longer apply. No further assessment need be undertaken. Refer now to mini publications "Hospital Porter" - Removal of Deceased to Morgue".

Edited July 2, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[endure]

On the other hand you could disregard all the BS that's been posted in this thread, pitch up in the UK and say that you are intending to live in the uk from here on in. Show me any GP in the UK that will refuse to treat a UK citizen who walks through his door and and I'll show you Beelzebub's boyfriend.

[mickba]

My understanding of this matter ….. and some questions on it as well……..

...................Disability benefits: – are they affected if one lives overseas?

If you are receiving disability benefits, and then move overseas – will you continue to receive what you received while living in the UK?

Does anyone know if & how residential status (e.g. residentversus non-resident) would affect disability payments?

Thanks guys

Most (but not all) answers can be found here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...ion/DG_10014671

or elsewhere within the direct.gov site.

My understanding regarding disability benefits is that only the Industrial Injury one is paid outside the UK and all others require UK residency i.e. 26 weeks/year. There are many guys getting away with this (and the winter heating allowance ) by lying, but it's getting much easier for Big Brother to check eg. chips in passports and if one day they're caught then the money may be clawed back from future entitlement.

As far as I can tell, the married allowance is OK, regardless of when and where, as long as it's legal, but I wouldn't advise you to let that influence your decision. That may change.

I have 4 years to go and it's a bit worrying what could happen re pensions in that time. When you consider what they've done re NHS entitlement (Gary Glitter's fault I think) then almost anything seems possible

I don't know why endure feels the need to dismiss all the info' here as BS - not applicable/doesn't care/ head in sand/superior knowledge?

I popped in to my GP thinking I could get a repeat prescription, but, as I hadn't attended for 2 years my records had been archived and I had to go back to re-register. I agree that if I'd rolled around on the floor something might have been done, but maybe at a cost. I didn't bother.

So far as NHS cover is concerned, I think most of us are thinking that we've lost our backstop of crawling on a plane back to the safe arms of Blighty. We can still do that, but we might find we have to pay, at least for the first 6 months, until we requalify for UK residency (am I right?) at which point, I believe our state pension would be increased to the current rate. Then we could come back here and still get that rate? I'm rambling now..........

Edited July 3, 2009 by mickba

[paulchiangmai]

Also, ive heard mixed reports on this BUT.........yiu cant take your pension and enjoy your pension years in Thailand, or anywhere else outside of europe. So if/when you get your pension, just dont declare youre moving to thailand to spend it there as they will freeze pending appeal.

There is on bloke i know off who declared he was living in thailand, they froze his pension pending appeal, it still hadnt been delt with 2years later and now living in laos as its cheaper than thailand and his life savings will only last hom "so-long".

The british government are thinking of bringing in o.a.p's with random appointments to make sure there still in this country. Also of trying to bring o.a.ps in once a month to sihn for pensions.

What utter rubbish. I have recieved the UK pension for more than seven years whilst living here in Thailand. They post the cheque to me at my Thai address. In all that time I have not had a moments trouble from them.