Uk Student Visa For Thai

[Expat2B]

Following some work related developments, I am now possibly committed to remaining in the UK for longer than originally expected. An option that presents itself is for my GF to move to the UK with me and study here. I had assumed that obtaining a Student Visa was relatively straightforward, however I have noticed that the UK embassy request evidence of funding for the course and stay.

Since I will be funding this, it raises the issue of our relationship with the immigration folks at a very early stage. Is this likely to be a big problem? I can demonstrate savings in excess of £100k, and provide accounts for my business (however I only have one full year of company accounts).

It seems pointless applying for a fiance visa, since my GF's course will last 2 years and in all other respects (apart from her living in me) she will be a regular international student.

Does anyone have any experience of this situation, or can make any suggestions? If her coming to the UK to study is not a viable propossition I will possibly end up walking away from an interesting business opportunity and relocating to Thailand (which is not the end of the world ) but I am trying to explore all options before committing myself.

[GU22]

Not only is a fiance visa pointless, it is the wrong visa altogether. A fiance visa is issued for the express purpose of allowing the applicant to come to the UK to marry. The marriage must take place within the life of the visa, which is usually 6 months.

If your g/f is coming to the UK for a legitimate course of study, then a student visa is the right one. Full details can be found on Guidance - Students (INF 5) on the UK visas website.

Qualification is important. From the guidance:

"How do I qualify to travel to the UK as a student?

You must be able to show that you have been accepted on a course of study at an educational establishment that is on the UK's Department for Education and Skills (DfES) Register of Education and Training Providers. You can search the register on the DfES website at www.dfes.gov.uk/providersregister.

You must be able to show that you are going to follow:

a recognised full-time degree course; or

a course run during the week involving at least 15 hours of organised daytime study each week; or

a full-time course at an independent fee-paying school.

And that you are going to follow:

a recognised full-time degree course

a course run during the week involving at least 15 hours organised daytime study per week

a full-time course of study at an independent fee paying school

You must also:

be able to pay for your course and support yourself and any dependants and live in the UK without working or any help from public funds

plan to leave the UK when you complete your studies, but if you are a degree student who successfully completes your studies you may be able to take work permit employment if you meet the requirements."

In other words, you can't use it as a sort of glorified visit visa.

If she doesn't qualify as a student, then the only other choice is to marry her and apply for a spouse visa.

[Expat2B]

Not only is a fiance visa pointless, it is the wrong visa altogether. A fiance visa is issued for the express purpose of allowing the applicant to come to the UK to marry. The marriage must take place within the life of the visa, which is usually 6 months.

If your g/f is coming to the UK for a legitimate course of study, then a student visa is the right one. Full details can be found on Guidance - Students (INF 5) on the UK visas website.

Qualification is important. From the guidance:

"How do I qualify to travel to the UK as a student?

You must be able to show that you have been accepted on a course of study at an educational establishment that is on the UK's Department for Education and Skills (DfES) Register of Education and Training Providers. You can search the register on the DfES website at www.dfes.gov.uk/providersregister.

You must be able to show that you are going to follow:

a recognised full-time degree course; or

a course run during the week involving at least 15 hours of organised daytime study each week; or

a full-time course at an independent fee-paying school.

And that you are going to follow:

a recognised full-time degree course

a course run during the week involving at least 15 hours organised daytime study per week

a full-time course of study at an independent fee paying school

You must also:

be able to pay for your course and support yourself and any dependants and live in the UK without working or any help from public funds

plan to leave the UK when you complete your studies, but if you are a degree student who successfully completes your studies you may be able to take work permit employment if you meet the requirements."

In other words, you can't use it as a sort of glorified visit visa.

If she doesn't qualify as a student, then the only other choice is to marry her and apply for a spouse visa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that it is a legitimate undergraduate degree course at a UK University and she would be a bona fide student (and would also be giving up her existing place at Chula to make this move).

I take the point re the fiance visa and that was my opinion too, I just wondered whether her visa application would be dealt with more harshly since her study would be financed by me (still cheaper than giving up income here) and she would also be living with me. My understanding is that a core test for UK immigration (indeed maybe all immigration services) is "intention to return" to a home country. Clearly someone commencing study here (however bona fide that may be) whilst residing with a partner is almost de facto less likely to return at the end of their course. Whilst this would not be the case for us (since neither of us really wants to be in the UK and my GF would be to a large extent doing me a big favour by moving here for 24 months, rather than me moving to BKK as originally planned) I don't want some petty bureauracrat making her miserable into the bargain, which is why I am seeking the information. My strong temptation in any event would be to use a visa service to expedite matters, especially if I could not be in Bangkok personally at the appropriate time.

As for the the other visa, would prefer to re-assess that at the end of 2 years

[the scouser]

Hi Expat2B,

You've hit the nail on the head. If the visa officer were looking to refuse the application then the lack of intention to return because of your relationship is precisely the angle from which he'd approach it. However, what is in your g/f's favour is that she is already a student in Thailand, not someone, for example, who having left school at 12 suddenly decides at the age of 42 that they need to go and study English in the UK.

You should write a letter to accompany the application which explains how your g/f's studies in the UK are a natural extension of those in Thailand. You should also state that your g/f has no intention of seeking to remain in the UK in any other capacity and that all things being equal you intend to accompany her to Thailand on a permanaent basis upon the completion of her course.

The one question that I would have is how good is her English? If it is not sufficient to undertake a degree course in the UK the visa officer may also use this against her although many UK universities do offer intensive English language course for students who are speakers of foreign languages.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

[Expat2B]

Hi Expat2B,

You've hit the nail on the head. If the visa officer were looking to refuse the application then the lack of intention to return because of your relationship is precisely the angle from which he'd approach it. However, what is in your g/f's favour is that she is already a student in Thailand, not someone, for example, who having left school at 12 suddenly decides at the age of 42 that they need to go and study English in the UK.

You should write a letter to accompany the application which explains how your g/f's studies in the UK are a natural extension of those in Thailand. You should also state that your g/f has no intention of seeking to remain in the UK in any other capacity and that all things being equal you intend to accompany her to Thailand on a permanaent basis upon the completion of her course.

The one question that I would have is how good is her English? If it is not sufficient to undertake a degree course in the UK the visa officer may also use this against her although many UK universities do offer intensive English language course for students who are speakers of foreign languages.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse

Thanks for that, so it isn't just me being paranoid then? Her English is very good but I guess the TOEFL as part of the application process will demonstrate that, in the event that her English doesnt hit certain standards then the Uni in question will require pre course attendance on their English Programme (timing dependant upon a sliding scale of TOEFL scores). I am reasonably confident that she will do very well at TOEFL, her conversational and written English skills are first rate (including the colloquial).

Her studying here isn't really a logical extension of her study there rather a replacement (although complete honesty may not always be best). The simple fact is that she can graduate here in 2 years rather than the 3 to 4 remaining in Thailand even starting again from scratch. So it just seems to make a lot of sense especially when one years fees is probably equal to around 1 month of income which I could accrue in the UK.

Fortunately (for me maybe ) she is 20 rather than 42 so clearly "of student age".

Going down this particular route is likely to seriously annoy her parents (who will be less than pleased she will be staying with me), so I wouldn't like to progress this too far and then find my GF had real visa difficulties.

On a related point I guess are any of the Visa Agencies there any good?

Edited February 19, 2005 by Expat2B

[the scouser]

If you choose to go through an agency in Thailand then I would advise caution. Yes, there are some decent ones but they are outnumbered by the cowboys so do some research first. Many places in Thaoiland advertise visa services but in reality do no more than complete and file the application form. In the UK all professional immigration advisers now have to be either registered with the Office of the Immigration Service Commissioner or members of the Law Society which is meant to maintain a high standard of advice, so perhaps approach an agency here.

Yes, your g/f living with you and you being her sponsor will ring alarm bells in the visa officer's mind but he/she has to assess the application in its entirety and providing that she can convince that she is a genuine student who intends to return to Thailand at the completion of her studies there shouldn't be a problem. As I wrote previously it does help that she is a pre-existing under graduate, although she will have to explain why she's cutting short her course in Thailand. I'd sell it on the basis of that studying in the UK has manifest benefits: not only does she obtain her degree but she perfects her English simultaneously which can only improve her job prospects of a well-paid job in Thailand.

Scouse.

[GU22]

One important point from the Guidance Notes

"To apply for a visa you will need the following:

a letter from the university, college or school confirming you have been accepted on a course of study in the UK and a statement of charges for the course"

Although it does also say "You can travel to the UK as a prospective student to arrange your studies for up to six months. You will need to show that:

you plan to enrol on a course of study within six months of arriving in the UK

you can pay for your course, support yourself and your dependants without working or any help from public funds

you plan to leave the UK when you finish your studies or when your permission to stay ends if you do not qualify to stay in the UK as a student." As already mentioned, you acting as her sponsor will already cast doubt in the ECO's mind as to her real intentions. Using this option will only, I fear, confirm those doubts.

Were I an ECO, I would also be concerned that she is giving up a course of study in Thailand. I would expect her to finish her course in Thailand first.

Edited February 19, 2005 by GU22

[Expat2B]

One important point from the Guidance Notes

"To apply for a visa you will need the following:

a letter from the university, college or school confirming you have been accepted on a course of study in the UK and a statement of charges for the course"

Although it does also say "You can travel to the UK as a prospective student to arrange your studies for up to six months. You will need to show that:

you plan to enrol on a course of study within six months of arriving in the UK

you can pay for your course, support yourself and your dependants without working or any help from public funds

you plan to leave the UK when you finish your studies or when your permission to stay ends if you do not qualify to stay in the UK as a student." As already mentioned, you acting as her sponsor will already cast doubt in the ECO's mind as to her real intentions. Using this option will only, I fear, confirm those doubts.

Were I an ECO, I would also be concerned that she is giving up a course of study in Thailand. I would expect her to finish her course in Thailand first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is almost certain that she will be travelliing to the UK after acceptance on the course, so I don't really think this is an issue.

As to the change of course, well it seems fairly straightforward to me, that rather than having 3 to 4 years of study in Thailand she would only have 2 in the UK and gain the benefit of daily english conversation which will make her more employable upon her return to Thailand.

She will almost certainly arrive before her course is due to start, but this seems reasonable to settle in and acclimitise (and it will not be more than 1 to 2 months in advance of her course commencement).

I can see the suspicions as I have previously said. The problem is this is an absolutely bona fide student visa situation, I have no intention of staying in the UK a day longer than absolutely necessary, and in reality I think my GF would prefer not to come here but sees some advantages. Whilst her move here would be very closely connected with our relationship , that is just because neither of us thinks a distance thing can work in the medium to long term and for 2 years there are better opportunities for us both here (work for me, study for her).

I would feel much happier if the Immigration people would see us both together so that they could at least ask me any of these questions, but I understand they do not do that.

[GU22]

Unfortunately, no they won't talk to you. It's her application, not yours. In rare cases they have been known to call the sponsor into the interview to clarify a factual point, but that's all.

Once she has been accepted onto a course, the best source of visa advice would, IMHO, be the university themselves. They will have had a lot of experience in this area.

[Peewee]

I see you are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.....

Let them know that your are 'involved' and they start thinking the student visa is a ploy to get her over to the UK (this is the most common way people abuse the stystem - for one reason or another). Indicate that you are not and that you are JUST a sponsor and they will suspect something within the story line is missing.

In these cases my personal view is that honesty is the best poilcy - you are the best of frineds and she needs to get to the UK so that her qualifications can be granted more quickly and with the benifit of learning more of the language and culture.

As others have said you need to get enroled at a uni who would take her - get the low down on everything that would be required of her during terms and what qualifications she could expect to obtain by the end of it. Its best to pay the deposit (the uni/college will return if her application is rejected) so that you can demonstate that she is deffinately a real student. In my experioance the ECO will be keen to know how these qualifications (once obtained) will be put to good use upon return to Thailand.

Nothing can be taken for granted and so I would work hard to prepare.

[Expat2B]

I see you are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.....

Let them know that your are 'involved' and they start thinking the student visa is a ploy to get her over to the UK (this is the most common way people abuse the stystem - for one reason or another).  Indicate that you are not  and that you are JUST a sponsor and they will suspect something within the story line is missing.

In these cases my personal view is that honesty is the best poilcy - you are the best of frineds and she needs to get to the UK so that her qualifications can be granted more quickly and with the benifit of learning more of the language and culture.

As others have said you need to get enroled at a uni who would take her - get the low down on everything that would be required of her during terms and what qualifications she could expect to obtain by the end of it.  Its best to pay the deposit (the uni/college will return if her application is rejected) so that you can demonstate that she is deffinately a real student.  In my experioance the ECO will be keen to know how these qualifications (once obtained) will be put to good use upon return to Thailand.

Nothing can be taken for granted and so I would work hard to prepare.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I will take some advice here in the UK before deciding how to present this. I do have the option of my UK company sponsoring her application and paying her fees as a "scholarship". This distances me personally from the applicaton and the "sponsorship" can be clearly framed with conditions such as her working for my company for a period in Thailand upon graduation, or a reimbursement of fess etc will be required, in order to give comfort surrounding her return. In a way this would be a useful thing for my company to do anyway, my concern is not to create too elaborate a scenario such that my GF will have difficulty at an interview. I had understood though that sponsorship per se was unnecessary for a Student Visa (since effectively the institution sponsors the application), what she needs to do is demonstrate ability to support herself, which is where I/my company come in.

In reality it is virtually certain that my company WILL pay the fees (for sound tax reasons ). So this is not an entirely manufactured set up.

As to acceptance by a UK Uni, work on this is well underway, her TOEFL test is due soon, the results of which should assist with the decision making.

Edited March 1, 2005 by Expat2B

[the scouser]

Expat2B,

You're correct that it's not necessary for an applicant to have an individual sponsor. What is needed is for the applicant to demonstrate that they have the ability to fund the course and sustain themselves financially whilst in the UK, irrespective of the source. Also, genuine students are allowed to work part-time in the UK so she could legitimately work for your company in the UK for up to 20 hrs p.w. but I wouldn't mention that to the visa officer who may conclude that the work is the motivating factor rather than the studies.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Expat2B]

Expat2B,

You're correct that it's not necessary for an applicant to have an individual sponsor. What is needed is for the applicant to demonstrate that they have the ability to fund the course and sustain themselves financially whilst in the UK, irrespective of the source. Also, genuine students are allowed to work part-time in the UK so she could legitimately work for your company in the UK for up to 20 hrs p.w. but I wouldn't mention that to the visa officer who may conclude that the work is the motivating factor rather than the studies.

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse

Were my company to cover her fees etc. just what would the ECO be looking at to support the application. Would a simple letter from the company stating that she had been selected for sponsorship (in the student sense of the word) and that the Company will cover costs be adequate or would more information be necessary? I would imagine that companies sponsoring individual students is not a totally unheard of thing in any event, and I cannot belive that the company in this case would need to demonstrate essentially escrow funding for the duration of the course, or am I wrong?

I do have a good reason to employ a Thai in any event since I am seeking to expand my consulting services into Thailand and it seems necessary for me to have a member of Thai staff who is familiar with my business who can assist with this. The timing following completion of her degree should work out well since this will be the time my delayed relocation to BKK will occur. Whilst admittedly I am using the company as a device to avoid immediate connection with her (for immigration purposes) there is a genuine business reason underlying things. Admittedly though I wouldnt normally choose to sponsor a Thai Student for 2 years + if I wasn't closely connected with them

Edited March 1, 2005 by Expat2B

[the scouser]

No, the ECO wouldn't be looking for any legally binding sponsorship by your company but evidence of the company's ability to do so should be provided, perhaps in the form of letter from the company accountant. Also a letter from a director (presumably your good self ) explaining the business need for such a placement and how your g/f happened to be selected from the multitude of applicants for this prestigious opportunity .

I don't think you could call this scenario duplicitous but perhaps disingenuous ?

Best of luck,

Scouse.

[Expat2B]

No, the ECO wouldn't be looking for any legally binding sponsorship by your company but evidence of the company's ability to do so should be provided, perhaps in the form of letter from the company accountant. Also a letter from a director (presumably your good self  ) explaining the business need for such a placement and how your g/f happened to be selected from the multitude of applicants for this prestigious opportunity .

I don't think you could call this scenario duplicitous but perhaps disingenuous ?

Best of luck,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to ressurect this thread but wanted to use the opportunity to say a big thank you to scouse. My GF has been with me here in the UK for almost 2 weeks now and starts her Uni course next week. Your help was invaluable and I am sure we wouldnt be together now if it hadn't been for your advice. A heartfelt thanks from both of us. Now time to crack on with the schengen visa application

[the scouser]

Expat2B,

I'm currently on holiday in Thailand and have not been checking in to TV as regularly, so I've only just seen your post.

Excellent news! I wish you both well.

Scouse.

[CarlBkk]

Expat2B, congratulations and hope things work out.

I guess a few people have been following this topic, so would you care to explain what method you used in the end for the sponsor's application? Private sponsor or did your company succeed in sponsoring her?

I have a Thai member of staff based in London (Chula and UK uni grad) who works for me while on a student visa. I would consider trying to obtain a work permit for her, but for the last two years she's been very good at renewing her student visa as she's fallen in love with the freedom of English life while I do similarly in Thailand :-) It works out well.

[GU22]

I'm not implying there is anything untoward here, but be careful. The government are starting to crack down on 'fake' student visas.

Remember she must be in continuous full time studies, and not work for more than 20 hours a week.

[Expat2B]

Expat2B, congratulations and hope things work out.

I guess a few people have been following this topic, so would you care to explain what method you used in the end for the sponsor's application?  Private sponsor or did your company succeed in sponsoring her?

I have a Thai member of staff based in London (Chula and UK uni grad) who works for me while on a student visa.  I would consider trying to obtain a work permit for her, but for the last two years she's been very good at renewing her student visa as she's fallen in love with the freedom of English life while I do similarly in Thailand :-)  It works out well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly to GU22 this was a genuine application. My GF is now attending a UK Uni to study a BA, the only thng that may be slightly untoward is disassociatng myself as sponsor to avoid questions of intention to return. As it happens I don't intend to stay in the UK any longer than I strictly have to, and it would have been unfair and unnecessary for my GF to face this line of questioning.

Now CarlBKK I sponsored my GF via my UK company, and things seem to have been very straightforward apart from hmm "preparing answers" around the "selection" process my company followed to recruit my GF. I followed scouse's advice and had documentation prepared and ready and my GF had her confirmation of study.

Within the sponsorship agreement I made no reference to work, merely to "training" with the company during her vacation periods. If you want any more info pm me for further details.

[GU22]

Firstly to GU22 this was a genuine application.

My remarks were prompted by CarlBkk saying

I have a Thai member of staff based in London (Chula and UK uni grad) who works for me while on a student visa. I would consider trying to obtain a work permit for her, but for the last two years she's been very good at renewing her student visa

and were not intended to imply anything about you or your girlfriend and her visa. Neither was I intending to imply anything about CarlBkk's employee, whom I assume is still attending a full time course of education and is only working a maximum 20 hours a week.

The comment was intended for anyone who may think that a student visa was an easy way of circumventing normal immigration rules.

Apologies to yourself and CarlBkk if I gave the impression I thought there was anything untoward about either situation.