Forced Waiing

[yabaaaa]

Occasionally I am in a situation where i might give a small kid a sweet or something (Gary Glitter fans turn away now) and the parents then ask the kids to thank me and force the poor little buggers to wai me physically grasping their hands and clasping them together for them. Why cant they just say Kop Khun Krab? I must admit I dont like the bowing and scraping.

Waiing is part of Thai culture, get used to it. Thais are generally more formal and often more polite than westerners, and it is considered good parenting to encourage children to wai their seniors upon receiving any gift.

These are wise words and teaching children the do's and don'ts in life are every parents duty.

To MikeSoi11 you have to come up with a better answer than "if you don't like it go home". From your previous posts you have just arrived. Don't fall into the trap of everything in Thailand is perfect and if you complain you should go home.

Thailand is amazing and does have many good things and bad things. Questioning these things is not a bad thing. The OP was asking why, although he couldn't understand why.

The question really is why a wai and not a thank you? I find it hard to accept a hierarchical ( have I spelt that right) society, waing for me is part of that along with the different greetings for old young although I can in someway relate it to Mr or Mrs but this is just defining "sex" not status. Ive got no time for status and who is older younger etc etc. I can't have respect when its rammed down my throat.

Thanks Mike Ill run along home now............ but which one?

Thailand has many aspects I do and don't like.

Edited July 5, 2009 by yabaaaa

[khundon]

The amount of outright and blatant brainwashing which goes on here under the guise of the ever elusive and most likely mythical thing known as "thai culture" is enough to wobble the mind.

I have all too often seen thai parents forcing their children into wai'ing. Most of these children are so young they have no idea what they are doing, nor possess the motor skill development to carry out the maneuver. It is sad really.

On the rare occasion I am wai'd; I discount it as a 'thai thing', and either nod back or totally ignore it.

While off topic (yet still concerning the penchant for wais); my motto is' "wais are for thais", and in over 4 years here I've never wai'd a single person in this country, and probably never will. Of course not being enamored by, enchanted with, or endeared to either this country or its native inhabitants I choose to ignore most things the foreign wannabe-thai sock-puppet contingent tries to pawn off as thai culture.

I also always cringe when I see what I call "wai-crazed foreigners". Anyone whose lived in thailand for any length of time has seen them too. They are the morons who are wai'ing the doormen, service staff in restaurants, go-go bar workers, limbless street beggars, and the occasional soi dog thrown in for good measure. I usually ask them; "Why wai, are you thai?"

I suppose you don't shake a hand when offered in your own country or say hello either. When in Rome etc.

[Chaimai]

I also always cringe when I see what I call "wai-crazed foreigners". Anyone whose lived in thailand for any length of time has seen them too. They are the morons who are wai'ing the doormen, service staff in restaurants, go-go bar workers, limbless street beggars, and the occasional soi dog thrown in for good measure. I usually ask them; "Why wai, are you thai?"

...... and I bet they p!ss themselves laughing when they hear you say that. I picture them now, just trying to contain themselves.

Still, we have learned from your post that Thailand has no culture and anything that we might have believed to be such , is in fact ..."mythical".

Thank you for sharing your superior knowledge with us.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Chaimai

[Jared]

I very rarely wai myself and when im wai'd at I usually just give a smile and a little nod of the head. I dont think that Thais really expect us to Wai back and there certainly not offended if we dont. However if you are rude and ignore them or just turn your head away I think they would be offended.

Regarding children, I have a 3 year old and whilst in Thailand and since he started nursery he will Wai. Its what there taught from a very early age and its just a greating. It can get abit annoying at times especially at school. From getting out of the car in the school carpark to getting to his class and sitting in his seat, he has to wai between 5 and 7 people. Each time he has to wai, he has to put his school bag down and give me his drink or toys.

When were in England there is no waiing just shaking hands and hi 5's.

[Gerontion]

The question really is why a wai and not a thank you? I find it hard to accept a hierarchical ( have I spelt that right) society, waing for me is part of that along with the different greetings for old young although I can in someway relate it to Mr or Mrs but this is just defining "sex" not status. Ive got no time for status and who is older younger etc etc. I can't have respect when its rammed down my throat.

You're confusing two different things. I can't see anything inherently hierarchical or deferential about a wai, just as there's nothing inherently egalitarian about saying "thank you". In the instance you gave (a child thanking someone for a gift), I can't see how hierarchy comes into it. It's just good manners, which are a fairly good technique for ensuring that we all get on. If you want to complain about wives waiing the feet of their husbands, I agree that it's repulsive. But that's a different matter.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Gerontion

[mahtin]

I love it.

On boarding TG I am immediately in Thailand.

Only smile back, though

[F1fanatic]

Wai Oh Wai, To use or not

That thread doesn't actually help at all as it just points out that nobody quite knows the right way to go about it!

I agree with Tod Daniels - I don't wai at all either (although I did when I first arrived, v inappropriately most of the time!).

We haven't grown up with it and therefore have little idea of the intricacies - i.e. how high should the hands be with different people etc. We end up looking ridiculous (and reinforcing the belief that all farangs are stupid).

Personally, I bow my head when someone wai's me, to show respect.

The only time I will wai is with elderly people that deserve respect.

Edited July 5, 2009 by F1fanatic

[Tywais]

Wai Oh Wai, To use or not

That thread doesn't actually help at all as it just points out that nobody quite knows the right way to go about it!

The point of the link was to show the extremes with this custom that members take it. I have no problems understanding it (so negates the nobody part above), but then I've discussed it with Thai colleagues in detail in the past many times when I needed clarification. I'm quite comfortable with it to the point of it being automatic for me. There is the rare occasion where I may have a moment of confusion, but not that often and usually when it is a peer.

But then I've been coming to Thailand for 40 years, lived here for the last 17 and have made an effort to understand Thai ways (thus my member nick). I wouldn't expect tourist or newbies to have a comfortable understanding of it and neither do most Thais. But the Thais that do know me well and my cultural knowledge would be rather upset with my ignoring a wai.

[barrybankruad]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

[kimincm]

Wai Oh Wai, To use or not

That thread doesn't actually help at all as it just points out that nobody quite knows the right way to go about it!

I agree with Tod Daniels - I don't wai at all either (although I did when I first arrived, v inappropriately most of the time!).

We haven't grown up with it and therefore have little idea of the intricacies - i.e. how high should the hands be with different people etc. We end up looking ridiculous (and reinforcing the belief that all farangs are stupid).

Personally, I bow my head when someone wai's me, to show respect.

The only time I will wai is with elderly people that deserve respect.

Exactly as my wife taught me.

[astral]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

[F1fanatic]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

A post I genuinely appreciate! I'd been worrying that my lack of 'wai'ing' (even though as a farang they must know I have no idea of the etiquette), still might be perceived as rude.

Its good to know that my bowing of the head and smile is acceptable!

[neverdie]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

Thats correct & well said sir.

[Tim207]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

I would add for those that want to return a wai, a good rule of thumb is that if someone wais you as a part of their job such as a waitress or doorman or they are a child it should not be returned with anything more than a smile or nod. Break this rule and to the Thai eye you look the same as you might perceive a retarded person hugging strangers in your home country.

[Brigante7]

!

[Brigante7]

my kids, as young adults, even in israel, when meeting with thai workers, wai/and or offer to shake hands... i usually give them an elbow hint that they should do it... its polite, its friendly, it shows they are in tune with whom they speak...

the same as our kids learn NOT to offer to shake the hands of a male/female who is visibally orthodox religous , IF they are of the opposite sex....

and we all taught our kids to say: how are u? , thank you, please, etc, and wave bye bye as we grab their hands and do the bye bye thingy...and to stand at attention for the national anthem and to stand at ease when told to (on official days like memorial day- even three year olds know to do that because we help them physically stand and place their hands behind their backs, or at their sides etc. ) motorically unable? give me a break, really... most westerners place their kids in highchairs before the kid can really sit properly also....

i always got wais from my nieces and nephews when they went out the door to school--they all live with one sister in law, and upon their first greeting to me when arriving back. i always acknowledged them with a polite nod and answer to each, to reinforce their politeness.

bina

israel

What do you mean and I quote "Most westerners place their kids in highchairs before they can really sit properly" So please enlighten the rest of us parents how we can feed a baby without putting them in a highchair? Not sure how old your children were when they could sit unsupported but my son was 9 months, I look forward to your advice as my wife is due to give birth in October and she will be impressed if I come up with a way to make our new baby sit unsupported quicker.

Brigante7.

[lioness]

To wai or not to wai is a personal choice, I wish Foreigners would learn how to wai, different levels of hand height etc for different people.

My personal opinion is that it is excellent to teach children manners, and just to give you all a smile, my 4 dogs all

sa waddy by offering a paw before starting their meals or receiving a treat. Now that should get a few of you going.

[Valjean]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

A post I genuinely appreciate! I'd been worrying that my lack of 'wai'ing' (even though as a farang they must know I have no idea of the etiquette), still might be perceived as rude.

Its good to know that my bowing of the head and smile is acceptable!

For the most part waiing when you shouldn't isn't rude really,just out of place but not something a Thai would get upset about. It is considered bad luck to have someone older and more respected wai you so for instance at my job my team let me know to never wai them even when I wanted to say thanks for doing something special. If it's a one off from a stranger, who is afterall trying to be polite, it's accepted in the context of someone who knows better. In the case of my work where they know I'm going to be there every day the got me quickly in line with doing it right.

One place where I'd more freely wai is in family and friends settings - when you arrive for a gathering and everyone is waiing each other and except for the children you should return it. Make a special effort to initiate a wai with the grandparents and other old people, take time and do it nicely. And your partners parents. I'm older than my wife's parents but I should always wai them first to show respect.

In other places watch what the Thai's do. For instance the trainiers at my gym wai everyone - and everyone coming to workout wais back. If it's from just the front check-in desk then no. Just pay attention and it gets pretty clear.

I've thought there could be a handy guidebook "To Wai or not Wai, That is the Question"

[yabaaaa]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

So what is Kop khun krab for then??? Is a wai a greeting or a thank you or both? In the west we would shake hands as a greeting and say thank you as a thanks. Another thing is when someone walks past me in a supermarket they will duck down making their head lower then mine a kind of excuse me, but why not just say Ko tuuuuuud? The head lowering thing is the bit I dont like.

Edited July 6, 2009 by yabaaaa

[yabaaaa]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

[yabaaaa]

my kids, as young adults, even in israel, when meeting with thai workers, wai/and or offer to shake hands... i usually give them an elbow hint that they should do it... its polite, its friendly, it shows they are in tune with whom they speak...

the same as our kids learn NOT to offer to shake the hands of a male/female who is visibally orthodox religous , IF they are of the opposite sex....

and we all taught our kids to say: how are u? , thank you, please, etc, and wave bye bye as we grab their hands and do the bye bye thingy...and to stand at attention for the national anthem and to stand at ease when told to (on official days like memorial day- even three year olds know to do that because we help them physically stand and place their hands behind their backs, or at their sides etc. ) motorically unable? give me a break, really... most westerners place their kids in highchairs before the kid can really sit properly also....

i always got wais from my nieces and nephews when they went out the door to school--they all live with one sister in law, and upon their first greeting to me when arriving back. i always acknowledged them with a polite nod and answer to each, to reinforce their politeness.

bina

israel

What do you mean and I quote "Most westerners place their kids in highchairs before they can really sit properly" So please enlighten the rest of us parents how we can feed a baby without putting them in a highchair? Not sure how old your children were when they could sit unsupported but my son was 9 months, I look forward to your advice as my wife is due to give birth in October and she will be impressed if I come up with a way to make our new baby sit unsupported quicker.

Brigante7.

Evere hear of that game "Barfly" hahah get her down the Velcro shop quick!!

[noise]

But is that then not a bit strange as you are not a Muslim ? Would you not feel uncomfortable doing it for no other reason than mimicry, or trying to fit in ? Its to do with their religion and culture, same as a wai, but its not ours.

I stopped reading at this point just to throw in a response and leave the posting. So if someone else has already said this.....

I see wai-ing is like saluting in the military. There are rules on who wais who first, when is it required to be polite, etc. The problem I had way way way back was separating social wai-ing from religious wai-ing/praying. Once I did that, I then felt comfortable doing it. And, of course, it helped that my wife let me know in no uncertain terms when I embarrassed her by not wai-ing. ASIDE: being "older" that most everyone else now is nice because I can now let everyone else initiate the wai-ing; if they don't, I don't.

As for the Malasian question: if it is the same as the wai, a cultural tradition rather than an Islamic religious greeting, then I would not hesitate to use it.

[Geekfreaklover]

I recall a few years back working as a volounteer teacher at a school summercamp for high school kids. at the end of the weekend I was presented an award by the head pupil, who waied me in front of an audience of two or three hundred. Having only been in thailand a few years I was under the impression that I should only wai those either of higher status or elder than myself. I simply nodded in recognition.

I was, apparently wrong.

One of the head teachers told me it is acceptable to wai children of high school age in certain situations, along with service staff if your wai is chest level and the respect is deserved.

Once you have a general idea of the social system you will know when it is right to wai.

To not wai at any situation ever is just ignorant.

[Gerontion]

So what is Kop khun krab for then??? Is a wai a greeting or a thank you or both? In the west we would shake hands as a greeting and say thank you as a thanks. Another thing is when someone walks past me in a supermarket they will duck down making their head lower then mine a kind of excuse me, but why not just say Ko tuuuuuud? The head lowering thing is the bit I dont like.

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

In other words, why aren't "they" just like "us"?

And I hope that when you put the question like that, you can see just how f*cking stupid it is.

[tartempion]

On the rare occasion I am wai'd; I discount it as a 'thai thing', and either nod back or totally ignore it.

While off topic (yet still concerning the penchant for wais); my motto is' "wais are for thais", and in over 4 years here I've never wai'd a single person in this country, and probably never will. Of course not being enamored by, enchanted with, or endeared to either this country or its native inhabitants I choose to ignore most things the foreign wannabe-thai sock-puppet contingent tries to pawn off as thai culture.

Really???, I guess you define yourself as "behaving well"

I tend to follow the advice of my wife.

I notice when she signals me that nodding back in some situations is NOT acceptable and I should wai back in stead. But then some here will never learn or adapt.

Then you have the "if you don't like it, go home brigade" on TV

Edit: see Geekfreaklover comment two posts above my reply.

Edited July 6, 2009 by tartempion

[ThaiBasil]

Reminds me of this toddler I knew on Samui. When we were on the beach having some food and enjoying music. The mother told him it was okay to swim: wai nam. So he wnet to the water with me and his dad and actually wai-ed to the ocean, was pretty cute and funny ....

[yabaaaa]

So what is Kop khun krab for then??? Is a wai a greeting or a thank you or both? In the west we would shake hands as a greeting and say thank you as a thanks. Another thing is when someone walks past me in a supermarket they will duck down making their head lower then mine a kind of excuse me, but why not just say Ko tuuuuuud? The head lowering thing is the bit I dont like.

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

In other words, why aren't "they" just like "us"?

And I hope that when you put the question like that, you can see just how f*cking stupid it is.

Lets hope they didnt learn their F****ing manners from you then.

[ThaiBasil]

The amount of outright and blatant brainwashing which goes on here under the guise of the ever elusive and most likely mythical thing known as "thai culture" is enough to wobble the mind.

I have all too often seen thai parents forcing their children into wai'ing. Most of these children are so young they have no idea what they are doing, nor possess the motor skill development to carry out the maneuver. It is sad really.

On the rare occasion I am wai'd; I discount it as a 'thai thing', and either nod back or totally ignore it.

While off topic (yet still concerning the penchant for wais); my motto is' "wais are for thais", and in over 4 years here I've never wai'd a single person in this country, and probably never will. Of course not being enamored by, enchanted with, or endeared to either this country or its native inhabitants I choose to ignore most things the foreign wannabe-thai sock-puppet contingent tries to pawn off as thai culture.

I also always cringe when I see what I call "wai-crazed foreigners". Anyone whose lived in thailand for any length of time has seen them too. They are the morons who are wai'ing the doormen, service staff in restaurants, go-go bar workers, limbless street beggars, and the occasional soi dog thrown in for good measure. I usually ask them; "Why wai, are you thai?"

You are a guest in this country. It is not about "wannabe-thai sock-puppet" bullshit like you say, it is simply about respect. Is it so hard to give when received, why totally ignore it, as you write?

I agree partly on your "wai-crazed foreigners-part" but better to wai too much than too little I guess.

[mizzi39]

The amount of outright and blatant brainwashing which goes on here under the guise of the ever elusive and most likely mythical thing known as "thai culture" is enough to wobble the mind.

I have all too often seen thai parents forcing their children into wai'ing. Most of these children are so young they have no idea what they are doing, nor possess the motor skill development to carry out the maneuver. It is sad really.

On the rare occasion I am wai'd; I discount it as a 'thai thing', and either nod back or totally ignore it.

While off topic (yet still concerning the penchant for wais); my motto is' "wais are for thais", and in over 4 years here I've never wai'd a single person in this country, and probably never will. Of course not being enamored by, enchanted with, or endeared to either this country or its native inhabitants I choose to ignore most things the foreign wannabe-thai sock-puppet contingent tries to pawn off as thai culture.

I also always cringe when I see what I call "wai-crazed foreigners". Anyone whose lived in thailand for any length of time has seen them too. They are the morons who are wai'ing the doormen, service staff in restaurants, go-go bar workers, limbless street beggars, and the occasional soi dog thrown in for good measure. I usually ask them; "Why wai, are you thai?"

Just read this guys other posts. total snob, and likes to bitch about everything Thai. Definitely has a superiority complex. Poor guy

[bina]

What do you mean and I quote "Most westerners place their kids in highchairs before they can really sit properly" So please enlighten the rest of us parents how we can feed a baby without putting them in a highchair? Not sure how old your children were when they could sit unsupported but my son was 9 months, I look forward to your advice as my wife is due to give birth in October and she will be impressed if I come up with a way to make our new baby sit unsupported quicker.

Brigante7.

off topic BUT .... most mothers here were/are encouraged to hold child on lap, while feeding.also for physical support but also for psychological closeness during feeding. shoving a bottle or a spoon in to a child's mouth while child is 'separate' from the mother is considered a 'not warm' experience for the child, this is ... until a child can support him/herself (that is, they move to a sitting position on their own) they are not placed in any chairs for feeding... as a mtter of fact, i was yelled at for even holding someone's baby with the little one's butt on the chair but i was still holding the baby using my hands for support... its the latest fad probably, going to this length but was told its now 'bad for the tail bone'... israelis are catching up to the crazy american baby fads faster every year.... totally off topic so to those that read, no need to reply........)

bina