Forced Waiing

[barrybankruad]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

This is THEIR bloody country so why(no pun intended) insist that they adopt OUR practices. Be thankful that you live here. Having recently come back from at trip to the UK I was appalled by the manner with which people treat each other. Surly, insolent shop keepers, indifferent service etc. etc. And as for the kids! Far too many of them are foul mouthed, insolent, badly behaved brats.

Fine something better to whinge about than the good manners and attitude of the Thais.

[harrry]

[You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

Unless you wish to make someone lose face very quickly if you wai him first and he has to return a wei he should have initiated.

[yabaaaa]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

This is THEIR bloody country so why(no pun intended) insist that they adopt OUR practices. Be thankful that you live here. Having recently come back from at trip to the UK I was appalled by the manner with which people treat each other. Surly, insolent shop keepers, indifferent service etc. etc. And as for the kids! Far too many of them are foul mouthed, insolent, badly behaved brats.

Fine something better to whinge about than the good manners and attitude of the Thais.

I DIDN'T Insist anything stop putting words in my mouth thanks here happy now

ps I like the way you describe it as "their bloody country" you obviously dont like it here? hm see, how do you like it?

Edited July 6, 2009 by yabaaaa

[singa-traz]

Anyway ... to slow down Flu transmission, it has been suggested to avoid handshake and adopt the safer Wai!

[bravingbangkok]

Nice one

[wolf5370]

What do you mean and I quote "Most westerners place their kids in highchairs before they can really sit properly" So please enlighten the rest of us parents how we can feed a baby without putting them in a highchair? Not sure how old your children were when they could sit unsupported but my son was 9 months, I look forward to your advice as my wife is due to give birth in October and she will be impressed if I come up with a way to make our new baby sit unsupported quicker.

Brigante7.

off topic BUT .... most mothers here were/are encouraged to hold child on lap, while feeding.also for physical support but also for psychological closeness during feeding. shoving a bottle or a spoon in to a child's mouth while child is 'separate' from the mother is considered a 'not warm' experience for the child, this is ... until a child can support him/herself (that is, they move to a sitting position on their own) they are not placed in any chairs for feeding... as a mtter of fact, i was yelled at for even holding someone's baby with the little one's butt on the chair but i was still holding the baby using my hands for support... its the latest fad probably, going to this length but was told its now 'bad for the tail bone'... israelis are catching up to the crazy american baby fads faster every year.... totally off topic so to those that read, no need to reply........ )

bina

Said my bit on wai-ing... but highchairs...

I guess it is another cultural thing (or simply bourne out of the thought that it's a frivilous purchase, perhaps?). Both my kids (Thai mum) were raised without a highchair - never had one in the house, never thought of buying one. However, we did have one of those bouncy chair thingies (wire framed deck-chair that bounces under the child's weight). I did draw the line of having the new born in bed with us (Thai way) other than for feeding (I was paranoid of rolling over on them and squashing them - so couldn't sleep) ; they had Mosses Baskets and then cots and beds instead.

[Datsun240Z]

There are many different greetings, some countries men kiss each other.

[wolf5370]

Is it the aborigines that shake penises?

[sassienie]

This is Thai culture.

It teaches children to have respect for their elders.

Don’t knock it; it’s a good thing.

These days respect is something that is seriously lacking with Westerners, so when they are respected it is beyond their understanding and confuses them.

[sassienie]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

This is THEIR bloody country so why(no pun intended) insist that they adopt OUR practices. Be thankful that you live here. Having recently come back from at trip to the UK I was appalled by the manner with which people treat each other. Surly, insolent shop keepers, indifferent service etc. etc. And as for the kids! Far too many of them are foul mouthed, insolent, badly behaved brats.

Fine something better to whinge about than the good manners and attitude of the Thais.

Spot on.

My thoughts, exactly.

[noise]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct. Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you?? This is the Thai equivalent. Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough. You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you or deserving of respect.

Thats correct & well said sir.

"The exception proves the rule?" Monks do not wai in greeting, so when you meet a monk in a non-religious situation (e.g., if you see a monk you know on the street), you should wai whether you are younger or older than he is. In this case, it is as

Barky and Astral said, he is deserving respect as a person. You are not indicating any personal espousal of a religion.

Another case where I find waiing first is appropriate (with both younger and older people) is when it is obvious that they see a farang and are confused as to whether or not I will return the gesture. I see this quite often when I meet people that have been educated/lived overseas for a long time. And when they are in a group (e.g., a group of all Thais, not Thai/farang couples, arrive at a party with spouses) it lets the whole group know how you will react. I think it puts everyone at ease (and keeps my wife from being embarrassed).

Waiing takes a certain feeling of comfort with the culture, knowing (and caring) that you are behaving politely, and a degree of self confidence to make it look natural.

[Chaimai]

Looks like yabaaa is pretty much on his own on this one.

For me it comes down to customs and practices in my host country.

I am now totally comfortable with waiing although I probably return more wais than I should - some say that you should not wai children.

I also agree that it reflects a politeness in Thai society and, like barrybankruad, I see a decline in manners, service etc each time I return to the UK.

[meadish_sweetball]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

I would add for those that want to return a wai, a good rule of thumb is that if someone wais you as a part of their job such as a waitress or doorman or they are a child it should not be returned with anything more than a smile or nod. Break this rule and to the Thai eye you look the same as you might perceive a retarded person hugging strangers in your home country.

I am not convinced that this is as black and white an issue as you make out.

There is a fair number of Thais who do return wais to service people, I actually see it quite often in shops and restaurants here in Chiang Mai.

Asked a Thai friend about it who does return such wais, she said she thinks they deserve a proper wai return even though they are service people.

That being said, personally I also tend to smile and nod.

Also remember the prince of Bhutan who was here in Thailand, and much applauded by the locals for waiing his driver and other service people who helped him.

[cdnvic]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

That's like asking why they can't just eat burgers instead of all those silly noodles.

I can't understand the amount of resistance to wai'ing from some members. Nobody's forcing anyone to do it but if it's generally perceived as being good mannered, what is the harm in it? If you don't want to, then fine because if something so simple bothers you that much, then you are likely used to people from your own country thinking you're a tw@t, and the Thais thinking the same won't bug you at all.

[Geekfreaklover]

Agree here. I think it's nice that the parents want to teach their offspring social manners. When given a Wai, whether genuinely felt or fake, the receiver should at least acknowledge it, and I don,t mean you necessarily have to wai back, a nod of the head and a quick smile would suffice.

Correct.

Surely you teach your children to say Please and Thank you??

This is the Thai equivalent.

Always acknowledge the Wai, but as stated a nod and smile is enough.

You should never initiate a Wai to someone else, unless the are older than you

or deserving of respect.

I would add for those that want to return a wai, a good rule of thumb is that if someone wais you as a part of their job such as a waitress or doorman or they are a child it should not be returned with anything more than a smile or nod. Break this rule and to the Thai eye you look the same as you might perceive a retarded person hugging strangers in your home country.

I am not convinced that this is as black and white an issue as you make out.

There is a fair number of Thais who do return wais to service people, I actually see it quite often in shops and restaurants here in Chiang Mai.

Asked a Thai friend about it who does return such wais, she said she thinks they deserve a proper wai return even though they are service people.

That being said, personally I also tend to smile and nod.

Also remember the prince of Bhutan who was here in Thailand, and much applauded by the locals for waiing his driver and other service people who helped him.

Yes, I think it is down to personal choice. And whether you want people to see you as 'jai dee' or a miserable foreign c$%t.

[JUDAS]

I'm amazed that anyone can complain about children being taught to wai and display good manners, something which seems to be disappearing in the so called civilized west ( generalization ) In the eyes of some the Thais can do no right.

[Gerontion]

if something so simple bothers you that much, then you are likely used to people from your own country thinking you're a tw@t, and the Thais thinking the same won't bug you at all.

Best response yet.

[astral]

To wai or not to wai is a personal choice, I wish Foreigners would learn how to wai, different levels of hand height etc for different people.

If you are not sure how to Wai, then it is probably better not to.

In company take notice of how others Wai and follow.

You will probably not be far wrong.

[yabaaaa]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

That's like asking why they can't just eat burgers instead of all those silly noodles.

I can't understand the amount of resistance to wai'ing from some members. Nobody's forcing anyone to do it but if it's generally perceived as being good mannered, what is the harm in it? If you don't want to, then fine because if something so simple bothers you that much, then you are likely used to people from your own country thinking you're a tw@t, and the Thais thinking the same won't bug you at all.

You and other folk can think what you like seeing young kids forced to wai by a parent physically grasping their hands and making them hold them together doesnt do it for me . On my own so be it. Oh hang on Tod summed it up for me it was very young kids involved ok so theres two Tw@ts for you to slag off.

Edited July 7, 2009 by yabaaaa

[mizzi39]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

That's like asking why they can't just eat burgers instead of all those silly noodles.

I can't understand the amount of resistance to wai'ing from some members. Nobody's forcing anyone to do it but if it's generally perceived as being good mannered, what is the harm in it? If you don't want to, then fine because if something so simple bothers you that much, then you are likely used to people from your own country thinking you're a tw@t, and the Thais thinking the same won't bug you at all.

You and other folk can think what you like seeing young kids forced to wai by a parent physically grasping their hands and making them hold them together doesnt do it for me . On my own so be it. Oh hang on Tod summed it up for me it was very young kids involved ok so theres two Tw@ts for you to slag off.

You called it, and most of us see it, so consider you two tw@ts slagged!!!!

[Chaimai]

You and other folk can think what you like seeing young kids forced to wai by a parent physically grasping their hands and making them hold them together doesnt do it for me . On my own so be it. Oh hang on Tod summed it up for me it was very young kids involved ok so theres two Tw@ts for you to slag off.

You called it, and most of us see it, so consider you two tw@ts slagged!!!!

You are probably better off on your own rather than attaching yourself to T-D But for now, tw4ts about covers it.

[Datsun240Z]

Thai family raising matters are still in the old stage, like the strict catholic raising way.

Newer generations will be much easier on it, which opens new doors.

[cmdream]

I make my daughter say thank you whenever necessary. Does this make me a bad father?

My understanding of the WAI . The custom of Buddhist people is to acknowledge the Buddha in all people. In many Buddhist countries not only Thailand, the bow and hand gesture are evident. India and Japan are examples. Their belief is that the Buddha lives in all people. IMHO.

[Livinginexile]

What do you mean and I quote "Most westerners place their kids in highchairs before they can really sit properly" So please enlighten the rest of us parents how we can feed a baby without putting them in a highchair? Not sure how old your children were when they could sit unsupported but my son was 9 months, I look forward to your advice as my wife is due to give birth in October and she will be impressed if I come up with a way to make our new baby sit unsupported quicker.

Brigante7.

off topic BUT .... most mothers here were/are encouraged to hold child on lap, while feeding.also for physical support but also for psychological closeness during feeding. shoving a bottle or a spoon in to a child's mouth while child is 'separate' from the mother is considered a 'not warm' experience for the child, this is ... until a child can support him/herself (that is, they move to a sitting position on their own) they are not placed in any chairs for feeding... as a mtter of fact, i was yelled at for even holding someone's baby with the little one's butt on the chair but i was still holding the baby using my hands for support... its the latest fad probably, going to this length but was told its now 'bad for the tail bone'... israelis are catching up to the crazy american baby fads faster every year.... totally off topic so to those that read, no need to reply........ )

bina

Said my bit on wai-ing... but highchairs...

I guess it is another cultural thing (or simply bourne out of the thought that it's a frivilous purchase, perhaps?). Both my kids (Thai mum) were raised without a highchair - never had one in the house, never thought of buying one. However, we did have one of those bouncy chair thingies (wire framed deck-chair that bounces under the child's weight). I did draw the line of having the new born in bed with us (Thai way) other than for feeding (I was paranoid of rolling over on them and squashing them - so couldn't sleep) ; they had Mosses Baskets and then cots and beds instead.

Wolf

Don't you have 3 kids?

I remember a couple of years ago you were trying to get a visa for your eldest son of 14 because he lives with you.

But now you always refer to your "2 Thai kids"!

Were is your son?

[wolf5370]

What do you mean and I quote "Most westerners place their kids in highchairs before they can really sit properly" So please enlighten the rest of us parents how we can feed a baby without putting them in a highchair? Not sure how old your children were when they could sit unsupported but my son was 9 months, I look forward to your advice as my wife is due to give birth in October and she will be impressed if I come up with a way to make our new baby sit unsupported quicker.

Brigante7.

off topic BUT .... most mothers here were/are encouraged to hold child on lap, while feeding.also for physical support but also for psychological closeness during feeding. shoving a bottle or a spoon in to a child's mouth while child is 'separate' from the mother is considered a 'not warm' experience for the child, this is ... until a child can support him/herself (that is, they move to a sitting position on their own) they are not placed in any chairs for feeding... as a mtter of fact, i was yelled at for even holding someone's baby with the little one's butt on the chair but i was still holding the baby using my hands for support... its the latest fad probably, going to this length but was told its now 'bad for the tail bone'... israelis are catching up to the crazy american baby fads faster every year.... totally off topic so to those that read, no need to reply........ )

bina

Said my bit on wai-ing... but highchairs...

I guess it is another cultural thing (or simply bourne out of the thought that it's a frivilous purchase, perhaps?). Both my kids (Thai mum) were raised without a highchair - never had one in the house, never thought of buying one. However, we did have one of those bouncy chair thingies (wire framed deck-chair that bounces under the child's weight). I did draw the line of having the new born in bed with us (Thai way) other than for feeding (I was paranoid of rolling over on them and squashing them - so couldn't sleep) ; they had Mosses Baskets and then cots and beds instead.

Wolf

Don't you have 3 kids?

I remember a couple of years ago you were trying to get a visa for your eldest son of 14 because he lives with you.

But now you always refer to your "2 Thai kids"!

Were is your son?

Wow great memory - I'm impressed Actually I have 4 - the elder two (boy and girl) are both in Uni (in England and Eire respectively). They were from my first wife - the two I referred to here are with my second wife. Its not that I am ignoring (or disowning) the other two, but they had a purely western up bringing by their mum (basically sat in front of the TV), so didn't really fit in with thread. The latter two live here in CM with me and were brought up in the usual clash of cultures we incurr

By the way I never did get a visa for him, he came for a few weeks back then (that was 7 years ago!) but we only meet up in the UK or at the grandparent's house in Spain. Flown the coup as they say.

[F1fanatic]

I make my daughter say thank you whenever necessary. Does this make me a bad father?

My understanding of the WAI . The custom of Buddhist people is to acknowledge the Buddha in all people. In many Buddhist countries not only Thailand, the bow and hand gesture are evident. India and Japan are examples. Their belief is that the Buddha lives in all people. IMHO.

You consider Thailand Buddhist? Where they accept 'merit making' absolves all 'responsibilty'??!!!

Not to mention meat eating etc. I could contine with all the things Buddah specifically excluded that the Thais ignore, but won't bother.

[Misplaced]

Get real! That is how things are done here. The parents are teaching their kids good manners. I love it when when they wai to me, just remember that you don't have to wai back to a child. You have obviously not been in Thailand very long!

So why dont they just teach them to say "thanks"?

Assuming how long I have been here is just that.

That's like asking why they can't just eat burgers instead of all those silly noodles.

I can't understand the amount of resistance to wai'ing from some members. Nobody's forcing anyone to do it but if it's generally perceived as being good mannered, what is the harm in it? If you don't want to, then fine because if something so simple bothers you that much, then you are likely used to people from your own country thinking you're a tw@t, and the Thais thinking the same won't bug you at all.

You and other folk can think what you like seeing young kids forced to wai by a parent physically grasping their hands and making them hold them together doesnt do it for me . On my own so be it. Oh hang on Tod summed it up for me it was very young kids involved ok so theres two Tw@ts for you to slag off.

You'll learn a lot more of Thai culture if you accept it instead of resisting everything culturally Thai or anything other than your own. The Wai, the lower of the the head...etc are forms of respect shown to you, so you should learn to appreciated. Nothing negative there at all.

It's always better to be shown respect than being treated like a <deleted> isn't it?

[torrenova]

The amount of outright and blatant brainwashing which goes on here under the guise of the ever elusive and most likely mythical thing known as "thai culture" is enough to wobble the mind.

I have all too often seen thai parents forcing their children into wai'ing. Most of these children are so young they have no idea what they are doing, nor possess the motor skill development to carry out the maneuver. It is sad really.

On the rare occasion I am wai’d; I discount it as a ‘thai thing’, and either nod back or totally ignore it.

While off topic (yet still concerning the penchant for wais); my motto is' "wais are for thais", and in over 4 years here I've never wai'd a single person in this country, and probably never will. Of course not being enamored by, enchanted with, or endeared to either this country or its native inhabitants I choose to ignore most things the foreign wannabe-thai sock-puppet contingent tries to pawn off as thai culture.

I also always cringe when I see what I call "wai-crazed foreigners". Anyone whose lived in thailand for any length of time has seen them too. They are the morons who are wai'ing the doormen, service staff in restaurants, go-go bar workers, limbless street beggars, and the occasional soi dog thrown in for good measure. I usually ask them; "Why wai, are you thai?"

Great post. Watch out though for the "more Thai than Thais" brigade who will be along in a minute (if not already) to have you whipped on deck for daring to make such a statement.

I don't wai either, didn't go in for the deep bowing nonsense in Japan either.

As for blokes wiing go-go waitresses, then they have really lost the plot and a lot of so called "experienced" westerners actually know nothing. The same mob go down the sinsot and adopting all things Thai route, singularly failing to acknowledge that they are not Thai (at least in the real world).

[wolf5370]

The amount of outright and blatant brainwashing which goes on here under the guise of the ever elusive and most likely mythical thing known as "thai culture" is enough to wobble the mind.

I have all too often seen thai parents forcing their children into wai'ing. Most of these children are so young they have no idea what they are doing, nor possess the motor skill development to carry out the maneuver. It is sad really.

On the rare occasion I am wai'd; I discount it as a 'thai thing', and either nod back or totally ignore it.

While off topic (yet still concerning the penchant for wais); my motto is' "wais are for thais", and in over 4 years here I've never wai'd a single person in this country, and probably never will. Of course not being enamored by, enchanted with, or endeared to either this country or its native inhabitants I choose to ignore most things the foreign wannabe-thai sock-puppet contingent tries to pawn off as thai culture.

I also always cringe when I see what I call "wai-crazed foreigners". Anyone whose lived in thailand for any length of time has seen them too. They are the morons who are wai'ing the doormen, service staff in restaurants, go-go bar workers, limbless street beggars, and the occasional soi dog thrown in for good measure. I usually ask them; "Why wai, are you thai?"

Great post. Watch out though for the "more Thai than Thais" brigade who will be along in a minute (if not already) to have you whipped on deck for daring to make such a statement.

I don't wai either, didn't go in for the deep bowing nonsense in Japan either.

As for blokes wiing go-go waitresses, then they have really lost the plot and a lot of so called "experienced" westerners actually know nothing. The same mob go down the sinsot and adopting all things Thai route, singularly failing to acknowledge that they are not Thai (at least in the real world).

Yawn..please see above for umpteen pages of replies and general disagreement (of course we are all wrong and you three are right).

[ThaiBasil]

The amount of outright and blatant brainwashing which goes on here under the guise of the ever elusive and most likely mythical thing known as "thai culture" is enough to wobble the mind.

I have all too often seen thai parents forcing their children into wai'ing. Most of these children are so young they have no idea what they are doing, nor possess the motor skill development to carry out the maneuver. It is sad really.

On the rare occasion I am wai'd; I discount it as a 'thai thing', and either nod back or totally ignore it.

While off topic (yet still concerning the penchant for wais); my motto is' "wais are for thais", and in over 4 years here I've never wai'd a single person in this country, and probably never will. Of course not being enamored by, enchanted with, or endeared to either this country or its native inhabitants I choose to ignore most things the foreign wannabe-thai sock-puppet contingent tries to pawn off as thai culture.

I also always cringe when I see what I call "wai-crazed foreigners". Anyone whose lived in thailand for any length of time has seen them too. They are the morons who are wai'ing the doormen, service staff in restaurants, go-go bar workers, limbless street beggars, and the occasional soi dog thrown in for good measure. I usually ask them; "Why wai, are you thai?"

Great post. Watch out though for the "more Thai than Thais" brigade who will be along in a minute (if not already) to have you whipped on deck for daring to make such a statement.

I don't wai either, didn't go in for the deep bowing nonsense in Japan either.

As for blokes wiing go-go waitresses, then they have really lost the plot and a lot of so called "experienced" westerners actually know nothing. The same mob go down the sinsot and adopting all things Thai route, singularly failing to acknowledge that they are not Thai (at least in the real world).

I wai because I want to show respect to the Thai people and their culture, not because I want to be Thai. It is their country so I am the one who needs to adapt and respect that! If I was in Japan I would bow for these same reasons.

For the people in here who think it is to hard to do that: go back home where you can ignore everyone!!!!