Ferwert Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 A warning to everyone who has been routed to the Tha Li Immigration office - Chaiyaphum, Loei Province I have detected a pattern of demands for "extra payments of appreciation" from this office when doing visa renewals and three-month residential confirmations. This has never happened to me in my seven years going to the BKK office and Korat office Immigration offices. I don't want to give all the details as this would identify me. I dont want problems with these people. Suffice it to say that a pattern has been noted in discussions with several Farangs. Because I am very professional and precise in all my paperwork, thoroughly confident in its' correctness, aided by a "Government Official - schoolteacher wife", I have refused extra payments. I would encourage others to do the same. As the saying goes, "corruption flourishes, when good people say nothing". I am not naiive and know about corruption in Thailand, but in this instance, it seems to be systemic and ought to be resisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamnanT Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 It's not uncommon at many Immigration offices for "facilitation payments" to be appreciated or even expected. I have dealt only with Suan Phlu and they appear to be less corrupt than the office you mention, but on one recent occasion it was made clear that a facilitation payment would turn a one month processing wait into one week. I have never experienced service denial (e.g. "Pay me or it won't happen"), just service degradation (e.g. "Up to you...but this could take some time"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHJ Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 it can't be worse than samui where immigration asks you 5000 instead of 1900 for a yearly extension and where the immigration letter to confirme your adress will cost you 500 baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 It's not uncommon at many Immigration offices for "facilitation payments" to be appreciated or even expected. I have dealt only with Suan Phlu and they appear to be less corrupt than the office you mention, but on one recent occasion it was made clear that a facilitation payment would turn a one month processing wait into one week. I have never experienced service denial (e.g. "Pay me or it won't happen"), just service degradation (e.g. "Up to you...but this could take some time"). Where an extra service has been given I am not above expressing some "appreciation". The background in this case involves a diminution of services and creating delays, thereby artificially creating the conditions for "appreciation" when they respond. I cannot be more specific than that for good reason....Farangs should know this and if they want to pay, up to them. The more others do it, the more is expected of everyone. I am very appreciative of Thai civility, diminished aggressiveness and I try to conduct myself in-kind. ...no honking horns, no road aggressiveness, patience in everything. The thing that gets my ire however, is when I am treated disrespectfully, with an attitude of "take advantage of the stupid Farang"......than it is a different story. And the Tha Li culture seems steeped in that attitude, in spite of outward friendliness...."By their works shall ye know them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 it can't be worse than samui where immigration asks you 5000 instead of 1900 for a yearly extension and where the immigration letter to confirme your adress will cost you 500 baht. Samui does not justify Tha Li. For reasons I can only speculate about, the Chaiyaphum and Loei areas were re-routed away from Korat. The most plausible reason I can think of, they wanted to justify the Tha Li office existence with an increase in business. Korat never "retarded " services in order to obtain $. If Farangs resist this methodology at this start-up little border office, it may be contained. I know my Thai wife who is a professional in her own right, looks them in the eye and just dares them to request bribes, now that we are 'on' to them. With respect to Samui, is there no way to challenge this? In any Immigration offices I have dealt with over the past seven years, I paid only the required 1,900 for yearly extension, and nothing for the two-minute signing of that three-month extension. I have never been to Samui so am out-of-my-depth on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferwert Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 It's not uncommon at many Immigration offices for "facilitation payments" to be appreciated or even expected. I have dealt only with Suan Phlu and they appear to be less corrupt than the office you mention, but on one recent occasion it was made clear that a facilitation payment would turn a one month processing wait into one week. I have never experienced service denial (e.g. "Pay me or it won't happen"), just service degradation (e.g. "Up to you...but this could take some time"). Where services "above and beyond" are provided, I would also have no problem "expressing my appreciation". But for normal, uneventful, routine services where my paperwork is perfect and timely, I will resist - as Tha Li has discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulrahman Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 It's not uncommon at many Immigration offices for "facilitation payments" to be appreciated or even expected. I have dealt only with Suan Phlu and they appear to be less corrupt than the office you mention, but on one recent occasion it was made clear that a facilitation payment would turn a one month processing wait into one week. I have never experienced service denial (e.g. "Pay me or it won't happen"), just service degradation (e.g. "Up to you...but this could take some time"). Where services "above and beyond" are provided, I would also have no problem "expressing my appreciation". But for normal, uneventful, routine services where my paperwork is perfect and timely, I will resist - as Tha Li has discovered. Congrats,Ferwert,if every "farang"had your attitude,we could help,in a very small way,to contain the rampant corruption in this otherwise beautiful Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prajak Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 When you enter the Nongkhai Immigration Police station there is written : "Corruption ends here." In Nongkhai I never had the problems mentioned in this item. I did have these problems at the Transport Office once. The official who did my paperwork suddenly switched to Isan language and asked money, my lady was there too. Her answer was clear. "Shht.... he is here for ten years, he understands every word you say......" And things went as they had to go.....no tea money..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosm Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hi, i've been here 9 years using the Bangkok immigration office.... never had a problem. Very polite and quick. Now i've been told i have to use the immigration office near Chiang Mai as i live in the Phetchabun district. Has anyone any experience's with them... good or bad ? AND any advice always helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunholidaysun1 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Mae Sai Immigration office are normally very good and helpful but if you need a letter to say you can buy a car or motorbike in your name , issued by them , it will cost 100 bht . I have had this experience 5 times but I dont know if what they are doing is against the law or the charges implepmented by the government ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 1 post deleted as off topic. This section deals with visas, not politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hi, i've been here 9 years using the Bangkok immigration office.... never had a problem. Very polite and quick. Now i've been told i have to use the immigration office near Chiang Mai as i live in the Phetchabun district.Has anyone any experience's with them... good or bad ? AND any advice always helps. You would have to use the Nan-immigration office, see this list of service areas: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a84605-.html Nan is by all reports friendly, but seem to follow some old rules like they still require a medical certificate for an extension based on retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glegolo Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 A warning to everyone who has been routed to the Tha Li Immigration office - Chaiyaphum, Loei Province -------------------------------------- Thank you ferwert!!! Living in Chaiyaphum and I am routed to Tha Li, will refuse as you suggest.. we all have to show some civil currage I think... Glegolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatman Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 My last extension renewal was completed at Tha Li & in two subsequent visits I have received nothing but courtesy & respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glegolo Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 My last extension renewal was completed at Tha Li & in two subsequent visits I have received nothing but courtesy & respect. ---------------------------------------- Good Vatman...... so there is good people up there too. I am happy for you. But I will watch out for snakesheads... Glegolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhooks Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I noticed a poster at the Friendship Bridge Border Crossing some time back from a high ranking Immigration guy asking for instances of "wrong doing" by his staff to be reported to him. It gave his contact details, I think in Bangkok. I have a photograph of it somewhere and will try to dig it out. Don't know if the prominently positioned poster is still there or indeed if the official is still in his position? Seems like feedback re the situation at Thali needs to be highlighted somehow. With the very high number of us now needing to report to this office it's a shame 'if' the subject of this thread is to become a worrying factor. Particularly after the wonderful professional treatment we received in Korat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhooks Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Wonder if this looks better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Much better FH thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukeroku Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 In the West, tipping in restaurants, though repulsive, has become the norm. In Thailand and many Asian countries, a bit of gratuity to speed the wheels of government service is customarily not opposed. Go with the flow, enjoy your day and don't sweat the small things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhooks Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 sukeroku: With due respect, when you have been around here a bit longer you will surely learn that ......... "a bit of gratuity" ........ is not we are talking about here. Whilst this thread highlights Tha Li problems, the "CULTURE" can be found in many instances and sometimes is nothing short of downright illegal. I'm not foolish enough to believe that it will stop, but "going with the flow" as you suggest is surely putting one's head in the sand! with consequences for the majority. Consequences far greater than............... "enjoying the day"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klikster Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Wonder if this looks better? Unfortunately, General Kunchai retired a couple of years ago. Let's hope they keep his policy intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klikster Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I noticed a poster at the Friendship Bridge Border Crossing some time back from a high ranking Immigration guy asking for instances of "wrong doing" by his staff to be reported to him. It gave his contact details, I think in Bangkok.I have a photograph of it somewhere and will try to dig it out. Don't know if the prominently positioned poster is still there or indeed if the official is still in his position? Seems like feedback re the situation at Thali needs to be highlighted somehow. With the very high number of us now needing to report to this office it's a shame 'if' the subject of this thread is to become a worrying factor. Particularly after the wonderful professional treatment we received in Korat. I believe that the current commander at Nong Khai is the nephew of Gen. Kunchai (Retired). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukeroku Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 sukeroku:With due respect, when you have been around here a bit longer you will surely learn that ......... "a bit of gratuity" ........ is not we are talking about here. Whilst this thread highlights Tha Li problems, the "CULTURE" can be found in many instances and sometimes is nothing short of downright illegal. I'm not foolish enough to believe that it will stop, but "going with the flow" as you suggest is surely putting one's head in the sand! with consequences for the majority. Consequences far greater than............... "enjoying the day"! Oh, my! I've spent 12 years here in Thailand and dealt with Thai authorities on many levels, buying condos and land, importing airplanes and boats, etc. If you don't want to "deal" with them, then don't. You can swim upstream as far as you can, just enjoy the swim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) Paying tea money is not required for normal activity; and has not been for many years. In 40 years I have never paid such fees - even when they were common. That was what was different here and other countries - the task would be done here without payment but might take a little longer (although in most cases it did not) - in other countries it just was not done without lubrication. We are not talking business; as you seem to be. Suspect that any such payments make you the apparent offender in any legal action that might come up in the future - not a good game plan Edited July 19, 2009 by lopburi3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukeroku Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Paying tea money is not required for normal activity; and has not been for many years. In 40 years I have never paid such fees - even when they were common. That was what was different here and other countries - the task would be done here without payment but might take a little longer (although in most cases it did not) - in other countries it just was not done without lubrication. We are not talking business; as you seem to be. Often, you need not give a gift, a respectful wai and an exchange of pleasantries will suffice. Other times, a token of your appreciation will be accepted. Go with the flow and you will find Asia a wonderful place to live. Do not become rigid in your ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhooks Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Not wanting to pursue the argumentative aspects of this thread and I won't reply to any further comments in the vein of "it doesn't matter so go with it" But this surely deserves a reply...."If you don't want to "deal" with them, then don't" That comment is really "off-topic" This is ThaiVisa and the fact is 'We HAVE to deal with them'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poldebol Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 In the West, tipping in restaurants, though repulsive, has become the norm. In Thailand and many Asian countries, a bit of gratuity to speed the wheels of government service is customarily not opposed. Go with the flow, enjoy your day and don't sweat the small things. Sorry. In the western countries I know, the tip is included in the price. Most restaurants issues receipts that say so. f a waiter or waitress has done something extra, like when you kicked over a glass of wine, a small tip can be given. That is very different from what we are discussing here. THe cause of the corruption we are discussing here is that government workers get too low salaries. The government expects them to find ways to increase their income. Increase the salaries and (some forms of) corruption will fade out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 What I advise people to do when faced with corruption from immigration of immigration or labour is to make a report and send it to your embassy. Your embassy won't act on a single report, but when they see the same complint over and over again they might talk with the Thai government. Also embasies do have meetings with each other to discuss things relating to Thailand. It ain't much, but better then nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Wonder if this looks better? The Thai text of that notice should be made into a lapel pin and given to foreigners in Samui to pin on their shirts when they go and apply for an extension of stay -- Maestro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Wonder if this looks better? The Thai text of that notice should be made into a lapel pin and given to foreigners in Samui to pin on their shirts when they go and apply for an extension of stay -- Maestro Whatever can you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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