Soiless Foam Seed Starting Cubes

[jaideeguy]

In my efforts to go soilless, I bought these newish foam seed starting blocks and so far have had dismal failures of only 10% germination rates and spindly on known good seeds. They look ideal in theory, but when I tried them with the seller's instructions....no luck. The 1x1x1 inch cubes with seed holes in the middle and sold in a flat of precut 96 cubes.

I wet them and poured off the excess water after a half hour and they stayed moist in plastic bags....seemingly ideal conditions.

I'm now doing trials with counted seeds in small batches in those plastic sandwich boxes with soil along side to see comparisons. will use dilute fish emulsion, 20-20-20, and plain water to see germination rates compared with cocopeat and my old successful sifted garden soil mix that always worked. The seed I am experimenting with are fresh arrugula seeds that have known good germination rates and are fast hardy growers.

Any tips from experienced farmers would be appreciated.....or it's back to the soil for me.

[jandtaa]

Hi Jaideeguy

Been thinking about using soil blocks to start seeds instead of plastic cell trays. whilst perusing some websites came across this reference to using them in hydro and thought of you .

Sunday, August 24, 2008

Using Soil Blocks in Hydroponics--Part 1 of 3

Soil blocks make the perfect growing medium for a simple hydroponic unit. Suprised? Isn't hydroponics supposed to be soil-less and water based? They can be, but there is a big misconception that hydroponics have to be that way. Hydroponics can be any way you like. Not that you'll hear that from the hydroponic dealers who all want to sell you something better. Soil blocks in a hydroponic setup has many advantages over a traditional hydroponic kit. First, soil is a forgiving growing medium, which is to say, you can screw up with fertililzers or forget to water and your plants are not going to die. Second, using soil blocks in hydroponics is easy to use, not like the complicated hydroponic systems which need pumps, timers, sterilizing, meters, monitoring, costly fertilizers, and water purification and ph adjustments. This is too much science and not enough enjoyment. Third, making soil blocks from your own potting soil is a lot cheaper than buying rockwool cubes for every plant you want to grow. We are going to lead you down the path of least resistance; soil block hydroponics. Of course, you should have a set of soil blockers. I call a set as follows, a Micro 20 3/4", a Mini 4 2", and a Maxi 1 4". You can view these blockers here at www.pottingblocks.com/sizechart.html. This is a one time investment, unlike rockwool cubes or even coco cubes. When the blocks are done, they go in the compost pile with no little wrapper. With rockwool, you're back to the store for more. With soil blocks, you make your blocking mix up or purchase some potting soil and you have unlimited amount of blocks for pennies a piece. Fertilizers can be made at home with compost teas, worm teas, and manure teas for pennies a gallon. Containers for soil blocks can be made from reusable plastic bins or rubbermaid bins or barrels or even wood trays lined with greenhouse plastic. A step up with modual container size systems would be the use of high grade black plastic nursery grow bags from sizes down to a quart all the way to 30 and 50 gallons. (email for prices and details)The rest of the bags are filled with a number of inexpensive growing mediums like inert pumice stones, coco/coir chips, clay pellets, Vegan compost, or even shredded straw. Seriously consider using numerous local byproducts of farms, like walnut shells, plum pits, or moss found in a forest floors or the old man's beard moss growing from fir tree limbs. These are safe, environmentally responsible growing mediums which are ecologically harvested and minimally produced. Nature provides if we look around.

Now, the issue of watering can be as varied as the person who's doing the growing. There's the manual top watering with fertigation, or water plus fertilizer in a diluted form. There's manual bottom watering, ebb and flow, wick watering, or wicking, and then water basins, pumps and timers for the automated setup. All these hydroponic setups can cost little to nothing, and allow the beginners of hydroponics to get their feet wet and still outgrow the professionals. How? Simply by the miraculous power of soil. Yep, soil is a miracle substance that just water and fertilizers do not have alone. You can have one without the other, but make mine with soil. I like the billions of microscopic biological creatures, called the Soil Food Web, to assist my plants whether I'm growing hydroponically or in the farm field. For every problem that comes up with most hydroponic growers, something has to be bought and applied and fixed in order to get a crop. With soil block hydroponics, if a problem comes up, you have the power of natural based elements like compost teas, wildcrafted or garden herb teas, kitchen ingredients like molasses, milk, eggshells, and spices like cinnamon, cayenne pepper, and dish soap for remedial aids. These cost nothing and work with soil and effectively balance out your little biological imbalances like bugs, pests, molds, fungus, etc. Soil is like the fulcrum point in hydroponic gardening where you can always get balanced with something on one end or the other, like air, water, nutrients, biology, light and temperature. With just a water based hydroponic system, EVERYTHING must be precise or you'll end up with some pretty sad plants. I prefer the forgiving and learnable art of soil and water hydroponics. Stay tuned for part 2 and I'll teach you how. But first, take a look at the soil block web site of choice: www.pottingblocks.com.

cheers for now J 

[jaideeguy]

Good info jandtaa, but what I wanted to know about was FOAM blocks.....could be used in soil or soil-less [hydroponics]. I find the concept and mechanics of having your seeds evenly spaced and compact quite nifty, but have yet to have successful germination of them. I'll try to upload a photo of them so as not to confuse anyone..........later.

thanks anyway.

[rice555]

Hello jaideeguy, there's two pictures of the cubes and pots on another hydro thread, post #25.

rice555

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Hydroponic-F...ng-t152056.html

[jaideeguy]

Hi Rice.......FYI, it's post #26 [page 2] with the fotos of the foam cubes [the first two shots]. Thanks for posting the fotos to clearify my request for tips. I took some fotos of the foam block sheets yesterday and was in the process of downsizing them to upload and didn't like the quality....yours is much better.

To further describe the cubes, they come in a sheet of 1 inch soft [mattress like] foam with 96 one inch cubes and have a pre-cut X that goes thru the cube for the roots to hang down and the seedlings to emerge from the top. The foam is quite absorbant and I have been wetting them down, then wait a few minutes and pour off the excess water. Planting the seed in the top 1/3rd.

They look to be fool proof, but they have fooled me so far.

Have been using water only with poor results and today will start an experiment using dilute suppliments, fish emulsion and plain water. Also, will try alongside the same amount of seed in my potting mix and cocopeat.....using measured amount of seeds in each and will see what does best and report. I'm using fresh arrugula [rocket] seeds as they are fast growing and large enough to count and handle.......not like tiny lettuce leeds.

Rice, how many seeds do you place in the X?? and how deep?? I have a batch of your pepper seeds in cubes sitting on top of my refridgerator for a couple of weeks and so far.....no sprouts.

Edited July 15, 2009 by jaideeguy

[rice555]

Hello jaideeguy, I have never tried to use them before, I got some at Bangsai on one of my visits there, but never got around to using them. The best way I can think of getting correct info is have the wife call Bangsai and say my ATM got some cubes from you to grow lettuce and don't know how to use them, or you directly calling and asking how they do it. It's been about 3-4 years since I was there last, her english should be much better by now!

Really, I think they were just doing 1 seed per cube. Fish juice not going to do anything to help it germinate any better than plain water.

But call Bangsai and ask how they do it, you were looking into how there system works.

O/T,I started some of the same chili seed(3 kinds/300ea) yesterday, will be doing the Burpee's method. I can see Charley Brown sitting around playing in the mud!

rice555

[rice555]

Hello jaideeguy, staying OT, I ran google: seed germination foam cubes hydroponics, your post came up #1. Some on the first page of the search were close to your question, but not exact. Either water or nutes for wetting agent for germination, and some must multiseed as they talk about thinning to 1 plant at transplanting.

Here's the links for you to read, no propaganda, no half truths or true lies.

Also other links to growing we can't talk about on T-V

http://www.hos.ufl.edu/vegetarian/03/June/June.htm

http://www.simplyhydro.com/parenting_your_plants.htm

Theses aren't the cubes your talking about, but have info. Oasis.

http://www.smithersoasis.com/us/grower/pdfs/pl_horticube.pdf

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hy...3521229906.html

Myth: Hydroponics produces huge super-plants

This is another myth we wish were true. Hydroponics produces superior plant growth, hence, superior yields. Every seed, seedling and plants has a genetic ability to grow at a certain rate,to yield a certain amount of crop and for that crop to taste a certain way. All of these characteristics are controlled by the plants genetic make-up and there isn't anything anyone can do that will make the plant exceed its natural, genetic limits.

Getting a plant to grow to its full potential in common soil is difficult because of the hundreds of variables in the soil's make-up that influence the plant and its growth. It is the ability to control these variables that makes hydroponics superior to conventional gardening. You have full control over what the plant has available to it rather than guessing what the soil can provide. Because of this the plants can do their best.

Dr. Howard M. Resh, in his book HYDROPONIC FOOD PRODUCTION, cites vegetable yield increases that are dramatic; identical cucumber plants produced 7,000 pounds per acre in soil but 28,000 pounds per acre when grown hydroponically and tomato yields that ranged from 5 to 10 tons per acre in soil but 60 to 300 tons per hydroponic acre. The reported results are typical for practically any plant. Said another way, to produce the total number of tomatoes consumed annually in Canada (400 million pounds) requires 25,000 acres of soil. Hydroponically, it would require only 1,300 acres.

What do you get when you use a dirt starter cube in a raft system?

"Sediment"

Jaideeguy, I hope I gave you some useful info to help things grow for you.

rice555

[jandtaa]

Hi JDG

Maybe I should have clarified in my earlier post that I was saying don't give up on the hydro but introduce some of the soil to act as a buffer and make things easier on yourself. I thought the soil blocks might appeal to your sense of order and space saving.Have used the "Oasis Horticubes" for lettuce. Sprinkled vermiculite on top of the seed . Agree with Rice555 fish emulsion aint gonna help ( indeed an over rich nitrogen source could hinder germination) it's either a moisture problem (I think a seed needs to absorb 50% of its weight in water before it will germinate) or temperature. I know lettuce seeds suffer from thermodormancy but not sure about rocket seeds, might be worth a google.     

"Getting a plant to grow to its full potential in common soil is difficult because of the hundreds of variables in the soil's make-up that influence the plant and its growth. It is the ability to control these variables that makes hydroponics superior to conventional gardening."

Sorry Rice 555 don't totally agree, both methods face similar hurdles. Dirt growers chemically alter the soil to make it suitable for the particular crop they wish to grow and my mates who grow hydro on a commercial scale alter the water chemically (much the same as brewers looking for a particular characteristic of beer) before it even enters their system.The more control you want to have over nature the more precise you need to be (what enzymes are you adding into your system? if any) Hydro was developed here in the UK many moons ago to grow greenhouse crops usually ungrowable in our climate and extend the season and is now an exact science based on years of research.Whether it is a practical solution to growing in the tropics is probably still open to debate (and maybe the reason, 7 years after being introduced to hydro you're still growing 90% of your crop in the dirt.)

by Roger H. Thayer

I'd like to have a dollar for each time I've been asked, "Is it organic?", since I started in the hydroponics business in 1972, I'd be rich! Is hydroponics organic? Is it chemical? What are the similarities and the differences? These questions have never really been answered to the satisfaction of most people as evidenced by the fact that I am asked the same questions today as often as I was nearly 20 years ago. Many people are confused by the word "organic" as it means different things to different people.

To the farmer, the word organic means no pesticides or herbicides. No potentially toxic or hazardous materials are to be used on crops to control bugs, weeds and diseases. To the gardener, the word usually means all of these things, plus that no unnatural or manmade chemicals are to be used. Only "organic" fertilizers and natural controls. They must: be made by nature, not by man.

To the chemist, on the other hand, the word "organic" means something totally different. In chemistry there are two distinct branches: inorganic and organic chemistry. Inorganic chemistry deals with non-living materials.

Organic chemistry focuses on the carbon and carbon containing compounds, typically associated with life. Biologists and botanists, and others who deal with the life sciences, are stuck in the middle. When they deal with chemists and other scientists, they have to adhere to the chemical definition of organic. When they talk to the farmer or gardener, they have to talk in different terms. To them, organic means "natural," not carbon based. They can say one thing, but really mean something else.

There is really no difference between an atom, mineral or the element itself. What matters is whether or not they are in a form that is non-harmful and that can used by plants. If so, they are beneficial whether natural or manmade. Plants do not take up carbon at the roots, they get all they need from the CO2 in the air, so the term "organic gardening" is confusing. The same minerals are needed in either hydroponic or organic growing. These minerals are provided to plants in the organic garden as they are released from organic matter by the action of microbes, worms and bacteria. In hydroponics, these same elements are provided by water soluble mineral salts.

In hydroponics, mineral elements are provided by the use of mineral salts. These may be either naturally derived of manmade, but most have been purified and processed so that they are water soluble and in a form that can be used by plants. Many start out as mined minerals or naturally concentrated deposits that are dissolved and processed into compounds with a definite molecular structure and composition. In the refining process, these mineral salts are usually purified to remove heavy metal contaminants and toxic substances that could harm plants or people. Since the chemical composition is precisely known, different mineral salts can be combined to form a balanced hydroponic nutrient. When dissolved in the proper proportions with a good quality water, a hydroponic nutrient solution can provide all of the mineral elements needed for plant growth without soil. By its nature, the hydroponic methods eliminates much of the uncertainty and guesswork found in organic growing. Some adjustments are normally made for proper pH, controlling nutrient concentrations (parts per million) and to maintain balance between the nutrients provided. These are usually easy adjustments and within the control of the grower. In a well-built hydroponic installation, all conditions are controllable so optimum plant growth can be achieved, even surpassing nature.

But is it organic? Can a hydroponic plant nutrient be classified as organic? Probably not, unless you go back to the chemical definition of the word, that is a substance that contains carbon. By this definition, many "chemical" nutrient formulas would be considered organic. These include the chelated trace elements as well as urea, which contains carbon in the form (NH2)CO2. It is also possible to define a hydroponic nutrient solution as organic by drawing on the definition many people use that organic is "natural".

Most of the mineral elements used in hydroponics start out as mined rock or mineral deposits which are as natural as the earth itself. The important point is that it is not the elements that are different in organic and hydroponic growing, it is how these elements are obtained and delivered to the plant.

Pros and cons. There are definite advantages and disadvantages to both organic and hydroponic growing. land is still available for conventional agriculture. With proper techniques and care, organic growing can yield good, nutritious crops on a large scale with minimal expense, although it can be labor intensive. Organic growing has an element of uncertainty, as already mentioned, but with care and knowledge, that can be kept to a minimum. Still, optimal mineral and element composition is going to involve guesswork unless expensive chemical soil analysis is routinely done and soil amendments are used to correct deficiencies. Most of the amendments used in modern agriculture happen to be the exact same mineral salts that are used in most hydroponic nutrient formulas. The advantages of hydroponic growing are increased yield through complete nutritional and environmental control, the absence of competing weeds and soil-borne diseases, increased crop density and reduced water consumption. With recycling systems, hydroponics uses one-tenth the amount of water used by irrigated agriculture. Growing media are easily sterilized and conditions can be altered quickly to suit specific crops or the growth stage of a particular crop, such as during flowering or fruit production.

The main disadvantage is the initial set-up cost. The cost of a good installation is fairly high, but if quality materials are used that cost can be spread out over many years. What about using hydroponic nutrients in an organic or soil garden! There are many advantages to this kind of hybrid application, combining organic compost with hydroponic nutrients similar to Mittleider Gardening. Care must be taken not to overdose the plants with such a system. If a full-strength chicken manure is used with a full-strength hydroponic solution the plants can be burned. Handled properly the system could eliminate mineral deficiencies. Plants grow faster and healthier as long as pH, drainage and water/nutrient retention are adequate. Because the plants are healthier they are able to ward off insects and diseases, further enhancing yield.

thought this was a well reasoned article from one of the links you gave ( I reckon a hybrid method is going to prove to be the way forward taking the best practise from both dirt and hydro growing and hopefully encorporating a bit of organics.)

 PS. Do you know of any Thai suppliers of CO₂  injector systems or grow lights (I'd be especially interested if you know of a source of the water cooled versions here in LOS)

cheers for now J

[jandtaa]

Organic HydroponicsBy David Roberts

During a day and age when our environment is becoming increasingly toxic including the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the food we eat; more and more of us are turning to the natural alternatives that are available. We are starting to consider how future generations may be affected by the pollution being produced in the name of capital gain, be it corporate or personal. These considerations are responsible for the dramatic increase in the consumption of organic products. Whether the product is shampoo or herbs, these products all fetch a substantially higher dollar value. Contrary to popular opinion, hydroponic gardens are not limited to chemical fertilizers. It is possible to use organic fertilizer in a hydroponic garden. Organic substances are those that are still in their natural state not having been through chemical re-composition, and these can include substances produced by animals and plants. 

Hydroponic crops are excluded from certification under the B.C. Certified Organics Program; however, this does not mean that we cannot reap the benefits of an organic harvest. Long has the debate been argued between those in favor of organic gardens and those who are indifferent or otherwise. What advantages could there be in an organic garden? As we know there are 16 plant nutrients that are essential for survival. We are aware of hormones that regulate plant growth, and we utilize B vitamins. There is, however, a lot more for humanity to learn.

Do we want our plants to just 'survive' or is our objective to obtain a maximum yield? We are currently learning about the relationship between plant growth and enzymes. According to some, all plant metabolic processes are enzyme driven. Plants use energy to move water and nutrient through cells up to the leaves where through the process of photosynthesis these elements are converted to sugars and starches which are in turn sent back down to the root zone for possible storage. Plants must produce the enzymes necessary to take up these nutrients, minerals, and vitamins. This process also requires energy (sugars and starches); now consider how much extra energy your plants could use for fruit or flower production (cellular mitosis) if we supplied a good portion of these enzymes. Enzymes also play other important roles in plant growth, for example, we all know the dreaded destruction that root disease can wreak upon a garden. Why aren't all the plants that live outside dying of Pythium infection? Simply put, Mother Nature takes care to balance this relationship by creating naturally occurring enzymes and beneficial microbes that keep the root zone free of this crippling sickness. We are very fortunate to be able to obtain sophisticated enzyme formulations which contain numerous enzymes. Dead and decaying root matter is the substrate upon which Pythium will grow, that is why whenever we have root disease we see that our roots are soft to the touch and usually falling apart. Enzymes can dissolve this decaying root matter and convert it to sugars and starches, thus pulling the carpet right out from underneath the feet of root disease. This is one of the components of dynamic plant growth that occurs in nature that can bring indoors to our hydroponic gardens.

We have been aware for the last 150 years that naturally occurring humic and fulvic acids increase nutrient uptake by basically forming a bridge between the nutrient and the root zone, humic acid is also beneficial to break down organic nutrient compositions. The importance of humic acids, often overlooked in aquatic systems has become apparent as research shows us that humic acid can comprise 95% of the total dissolved organic matter in an aquatic system. Humic acids are also of utmost importance in microbial processes, as well as interacting with over 50 elements from the periodic table and containing stable populations of free radicals. There is a granular humic acid formulation available which could be mixed into a hydroponic medium. Nature has a way of taking care of itself and when we consider that the DNA of every living or extinct species of organism on earth, including plants, animals, or microbes, eventually becomes a highly refined component of a truly high grade fulvic acid such as General Hydroponics Diamond Nectar we can clearly see that there must be beneficial results in plant growth and the breakdown of the organic matter which we are relying on to feed our plants. It is very important to know that true high grade fulvic acid will greatly increase the uptake of nitrogen which can result in drastic internodal stretching. Many gardeners find that utilizing a very light foliar spray of fulvic acid every morning for the last two weeks of flower enhances favorable characteristics.

It is possible to propagate a cutting organically as well. There are a number of organic rooting hormones available on the market. Traditionally, organic rooting hormones such as willow tree extract or liquid seaweed take much longer to initiate the rooting process than a synthetic rooting hormone. However, there have been reports of some plants rooting just as quickly. When it comes to the choice of a rooting medium one can choose whichever yields the most success. Organic-based starter plugs manufactured from composted bark are available, and some contain beneficial bacteria such as Trichoderma and are available under a variety of trade names.

Often overlooked is the importance of microbial processes that occur in nature. These beneficial organisms take decades to develop in the subterranean levels of the earth and now we have the chance to bring them indoors and add them to our gardens. Mycorrhizal products are a rarely used product in this industry, but are actually very useful in expanding the root surface which consequently increases nutrient uptake. Most claim to be 100% natural, are inexpensive products to use, and generally take only one application to establish a healthy and flourishing population of beneficial microbes. 

It is very easy to garden organically utilizing a drain to waste system with peat and perlite as the medium base. More often than not peat is referred to as 'dirt' implying that it is soil, when actually peat is a hydroponic medium due to the fact that it is inert. A sample mix which has been consistently used successfully is one bail of Pro Mix, 110 liter bail of perlite, a 20 litre bag of worm castings, one cup of rare earth, and one container of Myke Flower. To increase drainage of the medium even further, one could place about three inches of hydroton on the bottom of each pot. With this mix a gardener could expect a 20%-30% run off, for example if 100 gallons of nutrient were fed to the pots 20-30 gallons would run out from the holes in the bottom of the pots, therefore it is useful to have the pots placed in a 4x8 table equipped with a drain. This type of system is in theory borderline between true soil and hydroponic gardening, in effect utilizing the best of both worlds. In considering the components of our nutrient solution to use with this combination of mediums the choices are almost endless. It is important to note that in the above recipe we have not listed any organic components which are stronger or more active in nature such as bat guano or fish and crab meal, we are relying on our nutrient solution to provide us with the staple components necessary for optimum performance. Be very careful not to get carried away loading up a medium with organic foods, once you mix something in you cannot take it out, you can however, adjust your nutrient solution. One gardener who had decided to 'go organic' after having excellent results with his initial experiments became so brave that he loaded his peat mix full with a variety of organic products such as fish bone meal, bat guano, and so on. When he put his babies into the medium they crisped up and died due to severe root tip burn. The gardener ended up having to bake his pots under HID lighting for 2 weeks before he could put any plants into the medium. The pots would steam and become extremely hot due to the actively and rapidly breaking down organic matter. 

In short the organic matter was too highly concentrated. Just because something is organic doesn't always mean that it is not strong or readily available to the plant. 

It must be said that there is much we do not know about the benefits of many components present in nature, and these unknown elements: Vitamins, minerals, enzymes, acids, microbes, and hormones are precisely what we stand to benefit from. Just because we do not know how it works does not mean that it doesn't give us positive results.

There are so many factors involved in obtaining a maximum yield that is impossible to say that gardening organically will increase yield or quality. The popular notion that organically grown food is healthier for consumption is partly based in the non-use of pesticides. Pesticide use, when not strictly regulated and controlled, is highly hazardous to the environment, wildlife, and people. Pesticide use will also dramatically reduce yield in a garden, therefore it is definitely an advantage not only in production but in the future of our planet to make use of biological and natural pest control. 

Options to consider in this extremely important area are predatory mites, insects, and nematodes. In order to obtain pleasing results using biological controls one must be educated on the specific environments that each control requires. For example spider mites like to be hot and dry, where predator mites like it a little cooler and more humid. In order to successfully use predator mites we must create an environment that will slow down the reproduction of the spider mite and speed up the reproduction of the predator mite. We can do this by lowering our temperature to 80 degrees Fahrenheit and raising our humidity to 60%. In these conditions we will have a positive experience with biological controls. British Columbia is one of the leading users of biological controls in the world, with many greenhouses actually introducing the pest first and then biological predator, thus creating a balanced environment. Other options include using natural products in a pest management program such as earth juice essential spray and neem oil. These products would require frequent use, approximately every three days. When we consider that as many as 16 different types of pesticide residue have been found on a single head of lettuce it becomes truly apparent that we must hold ourselves to stricter standards.

The other basis for the idea that organically grown food is healthier is the non-use of chemical fertilizers. In a strictly scientific sense, organic nutrients are broken down to chemicals before they are actually taken up by the plant. So, technically speaking as far as nutrient absorption is concerned, the difference only lies in the fact that organic nutrients contain more than the 16 elements deemed 'essential ' for plant survival. The plant cannot technically tell the difference between nutrient derived from organic sources or from fertilizer salts. 

The basic principles of gardening Bioponically are generally the same as far as the considerations of choosing a medium, irrigation cycles and so on. A major point of consideration is that organic nutrient formulations tend to be thicker, even chunkier, than a liquid chemical fertilizer. This characteristic makes a drip application very difficult, and Aeroponics almost impossible. The use of very fine micron filters is necessary in these systems if the nutrient solution is to be organic and drippers or misters should be checked daily. Flood and drain or drain to waste systems, however, work just fine with an organic nutrient solution. Drain to waste systems in fact are gaining tremendous popularity especially in Australia, many gardeners are utilizing perlite as the sole medium with several irrigation cycles throughout the day. If the drain to waste system is utilizing spaghetti line to irrigate the medium it would again be necessary to check that the lines are flowing freely on a daily basis.

It is possible to formulate our own organic nutrient solutions by making a tea with organic substances such as bat guano, worm castings, and so on; these solutions would have to be thoroughly filtered. There are pre-formulated organic teas available such as pure blend, pure blend pro, earth juice, and sea mix. Actually, there are far too many to name, and the truth being that some may work better than others. No matter which ones you choose, the following are some products that would benefit your nutrient solution. One such product is humic acid. Catalyst altered water is another. It will allow each single water molecule to carry an increased amount of nutrient up the root zone. Both of these products would increase nutrient uptake which is important in organic gardens because the parts per million strength of the nutrient solutions is much lower due to the fact that the nutrients are not present in the form of salts. Another very interesting organic product is catalyst altered water. If one studies the components of this product, one will see that the formulation contains much needed calcium and magnesium as well as fossilized organic material. Is it possible that we may be able to benefit from the same elements present in the age of the ancient giants that roamed the earth? Why did dinosaurs and all the plants present at that time grow so very large? There may be a great advantage in utilizing the fossil matter of that period. 

It is still very important to monitor pH, and there is organic pH up and down formulations available. Some organic products have very extreme pH measurements. It is of course still very important to change the reservoir on a regular basis, or run a drain to waste system. 

Some awesome examples of growing organic gardens are aquaculture which utilizes fish waste to feed the plants and plants to clean the fish water, the primary cost is fish food and the ideal fish is tilapia. Another example is a combination chicken and rose greenhouse, a 30'x120' greenhouse atop a chicken coop produces $7,000 in chickens and $36,000 in roses every year. Forty tons of straw and twenty-five tons of chicken waste are reduced to six tons of hydroponic nutrient over the year.

Another fantastic example would be the extremely environmentally sound "green building" where plants are used to clean human waste from water. A remote community of 46 mobile homes became the proud user of the first natural sewage treatment system of this kind in B.C. when their failed septic system began polluting the ground water creating a health hazard. Not only is the process odour free it also produces bedding plants for their own use as well as wetland and tropical plants which are sold to the local nurseries. 

Regardless of the reason for considering gardening organically, it is well worth it. Fertilizer salts have only been around for a very short period of time compared to the history of agricultural cultivation. Will millions of years of evolution change the natural relationship that plants have with all that surrounds us? Sometimes we have to look back to go forward.

[rice555]

Hello jantaa, to quote jaideeguy, "Good info jandtaa, but what I wanted to know about was FOAM blocks.....could be used in soil or soil-less [hydroponics]".

You still have not answered the question of the poster, but have filled up the post with your agenda, which this post is not about.

I think most people doing hydro on this list know you can use shit to grow hydro, if they are, or you are interested, start a thread in your walled in little area you've built.

As a mod, you should be a little more responsible in not going off topic, and if you don't have the answer to "the question asked", don't answer.

Jaideeguy and I had @'s and phone conversations about this before he posted the "question". I didn't know the answer, I posted pictures in the past of the cubes he was asking about. I have not used the cubes, I even have some, but never used them and as I told him and in a couple of threads that I have never grown hydro lettuce/greens so I could not give advice on what to do. The talks were about the cubes, same with my posts, general thoughts what might work, but it was all about the "foam cube".

All your so called help was compost, and did not answer the cube question.

You going to give us a <deleted> <deleted> salad recipe next? We know you don't have the cube answer!

rice555

[cloghead]

If the info can't be found easily and cut 'n' pasted then old janta ain't interested...

moderator???

[kbvicar]

^^^ This might be what you guys are talking about (growcubes)--

www.suretogrow.com/index

Sounds like white-mans-magic to me. I'll stick to the coco coir for 70 baht/20 kilo bag myself...

[rice555]

Hello kbvicar, first things first, jaideeguy, it gives instructions here, except for how wet, I was looking for their P/N to call them when I saw this.(I was having the wife call to ask) http://en.bangsaiagro.com/

kbvicar, it's been a while, hope things are growing well for you. We all have opinions, but when you flog a dead horse post after post you add to the problem, if you don't have the solution. Time to grow up and smell the roses and close your salad hole.

I'm not trying to tell you that foam cubes are the only way. I respect the way you think, but to go on and on after the OP said your not answering the question, that should of been it. The cut and post king should move on, or is he that slow?

rice555

[rice555]

Hello kbvicar, sorry for dumping in my reply to you! If anybody goes to the site: http://www.suretogrow.com had info on cubes and other foam products, there's a lot of good info and links from some of the top people in hydro and schools.

I liked the mat system for micro green$.

rice555

[rice555]

Hello kbvicar, sorry for dumping in my reply to you! It was not aimed at you! If anybody goes to the site: http://www.suretogrow.com had info on cubes and other foam products, there's a lot of good info and links from some of the top people in hydro and schools.

I liked the mat system for micro green$.

rice555

[jaideeguy]

Finally some info from the maker of the cubes [suretogrow, thanks kbvicar] or the ones we get here could be a knockoff....easy to cut some foam and I suspect they are @ 17thb for 96 cubes in a small shop.

While the 'great foam cube debate' was going on, I was doing a controlled experiment with plain soil, sterilized soil and soil with rice hulls verses the foam cubes and if I downloaded and uploaded the foto correctly, the proof is in the foto.

It's quite obvious that soil wins out on my experiment. sowed seed at the same time, arrugula [rocket roquette] for it's fast germination and easy to handle seed size. 36 seeds to a box [boxes were those hinged pastery boxes that hold 12 cubes perfectly] placed 3 seeds per cube [X12] and 36 seeds broadcast evenly in the soil [and soil mixes] and covered with a 18th inch of screened cocopeat, then watered gently and poured off excess.

Three days later, i saw lots of green in the soil boxes and a little in the cubes....then I exposed them to light and took the foto on day 4.

It's obvious that the soil grows faster, more sturdier, and much better germination rates.

approximately 90+% soil and 25% cubes. This is day 6 and a few more cube babies have sprouted, but the soil is still faster, stronger and more.

In a separate experiment with the cubes and some of rice555's [thanks rice] pepper seeds that are slow to germinate, I'm starting to see a few sprouts after 3 weeks, but we all know how slow pepper seeds germinate.

conclusion.......the cubes may be of some value with slow to germinate seeds, but with fast germinating seeds, soil wins!!

Thanks all for your input and hopefully my experiment will help others.....

next experiment will be using the foam blocks in a floating raft system and I'll post results and hopefully fotos.

Edited July 20, 2009 by jaideeguy

[jaideeguy]

Afterthoughts on foam cubes......they may be quite beneficial for rooting cuttings as mentioned in the PDF file on the http://www.suretogrow.com.

I'm not giving up on them entirely as I may continue to experiment with them in a floating raft system [with bubbler] that I have constructed already and will post fotos if successful. Hopefully others will not be discouraged by my experiment post and will post positive results and fotos as well.