Thai Health Experts Tell People To Avoid Public Places

[hungryINbangkok]

Eeegad! In a country where it is perfectly alright to take a sick day because you have a simple headache, you're surprised that they are over-reacting?

I particularly liked the comment about the family of 4 blissfully riding down the road on a motorbike sans helmet but nicely face masked! Spot on!

[paulandmaneerat]

Whilst washing of hands is never a bad idea, and should be encouraged more in Thai society, I wonder what the benefit is in combating flu, which in my humble opinion is spread through the air in tiny droplets from a cough or a sneeze. The wearing of a mask, use of a handkerchief or the palm of the hand in front of the nose or mouth seem the more appropriate solution.

P&M

[Nip]

Bird Flu, SARS and now Swine Flu... Swine Fly is no worse than a common cold. It will come and go just like it did back in 1976 and the Pharmaceutical companies will make millions for the likes of Donald Ramsfeld and his Tamiflu. Well be fair they have to recoup some money after they financed Obama into power. Me thinks that the vaccine can be more harmful than the mind inspired money making malady... Its a hoax boys and as Jeremy Beadle would say ... You have been framed! Fear is the key!

[Jingthing]

Swine Fly is no worse than a common cold.

Yes, it is. It is a FLU, not a cold. Very few people die of a cold.

[Ferwert]

utterly absurd mask mania. i wonder who is making all the money from the useless masks, which are more likely to be a vector with all the face touching involved. Washing hands would be more effective.

agreed

[toret]

utterly absurd mask mania. i wonder who is making all the money from the useless masks, which are more likely to be a vector with all the face touching involved. Washing hands would be more effective.

Virus can not fly around by themselves as far as I know. But they can travel around in droplets from people sneezing and coughing. These are large enough to be stopped by certain types of masks.

So the masks provided would probably have some effect.

[meadish_sweetball]

"The transmission rate of the new flu virus from humans to humans will be drastically decreased if people across the country, including patients with flu-like symptoms, stay home and do not participate in any social gathering for two weeks," said Dr Tippawan Nagchinta, a health expert from the United States Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Everything seems to be under control within 2 weeks time!

They always mention 2 weeks. Is that only a number or proven as reliable due to medical research?

Transmission

People who contract influenza are most infective between the second and third days after infection and infectivity lasts for around ten days.^[54] Children are much more infectious than adults and shed virus from just before they develop symptoms until two weeks after infection.^[54][55] The transmission of influenza can be modeled mathematically, which helps predict how the virus will spread in a population.^[56]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_...ectious_disease

[OzMick]

Much ado about bugger-all. anybody care to guess at the road toll in LOS since we first heard of swine flu? Should they ban the sale of petrol/diesel to save all those lives?

Stay at home - with how many other people? do they stay at home too? and how do you stay away from crowded public places if you are going to a hospital waiting room?

Shut the schools for 2 weeks. Do you think the little angels are going to sit at home for that period? they will be hanging out with the same people that they see at school, and getting up to all sorts of mischief.

My recommendation, don't kiss any pigs.

[wrecker]

I am completely baffled by the idea that Sana has a say in matters of public health. Did he suddenly became a doctor? It might be possible after he checked out the physical health of a journalist in a bangkok hotel room and than used his power to intimidate the girl. Sana seem to be in charge of buying millions o face masks too. They will normally retail for 2 - 5 baht. I think Sanan will pay around 20 baht.

Over and over again it seems that the ethical standards of this government is at least a factor 10 times lower than the already not so good standards that Thaksin imposed on his stealing cabinet members.

Sanan should be told to shut up. IF someone can comment it is only the health minister, not a race rigging, vote buying former convict who was banned from politics for 5 year already for corruption.

Besides the fact that the recommendations are ridiculous, you cannot shut down a country and especially not for a relative mild sickness that will only slightly the increase the chances of getting killed by a regular influenza virus.

I suspect that there is a political motive here. By telling the people to stay home they want to avoid demonstrations which can disrupt another ministerial meeting, this time the Asean. It cannot be coincidence that the time frame fits exactly.

If it was really related to a matter of public health other people would be involved and certainly not Sanan and Suthep. The numbers do not add up either. Every day just a few hundred cases are reported, if there was so much danger the number would have been in the tens of thousands of cases a week not measured in less than a thousand. I start to believe that the government has hired one of the poll agencies to massage the numbers. I am talking about those poll agencies who think that the country has just 17 provinces and that they can extrapolate the outcome to the entire country. Thailand's statistics are as unreliable as thise polling agencies.

[BlueSmurf]

ok want it or not here comes my two pence worth...The reason other counties seem not to panic as much as Thailand is that they have the Tamiflu anti virrals plenty of them. One poster said if you have it stay at home if you are very ill go the hospital.WRONG!If you have the syptoms go get the tami-flu(thailand has some generick tami-flu now made here) if you wait it could be too late.remember healthy people are dead already..In the Uk a doctor and a healthy 6 year old have died this week.In the Uk the NHS recommends you phone your doctor if you have the flu they issue with a code and some one goes and collects your Tami-flu prescription.Yes close the schools for a couple of weeks this will give the country time to get more tamiflu made here and get closer to getting vaccines.Thailand has ordered only 2 million dosses of vaccine but the population is 66 million. So order more because it will strike harder here in the winter. At the moment the vaccines are for hospital staff first which is ok. This will cost the country a lot more if they do not have a big program to vacinate nealy everyone as like they have in the Uk.You may say thailand cannot afford it but can they afford not to do it...

[neverdie]

Just reading this thread makes me feel sick.

As I said previously, I am wearing my WWII gas mask, have stocked up on canned foods and ammunition. Is there anything I have overlooked?

I was serious about feeling sick too

[CHINWA]

Jeezus, are things that serious back there? Do I postpone my trip back to LOS in two weeks?

I'm not one to be easily alarmed, but what is going on there?

The usual, the mask industry needed some help and the media is giving a hand. As someone already said here, in the West nobody talk about flu anymore. Closing down places is a mistake and it will not solve the problem. In your place I wouldn't cancel my trip. Welcome to Bkk

[anon467367354]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I listen to NPR and BBC news everyday, and I don't hear anything about swine flu at all. I also watch ABC and CBS news, and it's never talked about. If one decides to keep track of the spread of the common influenza virus, it would be far more radial than this swine flu strain. HIV/AIDS is still the number one killer in this country, and I'm sure infections from food is probably a non-provable close second. The concept of hygiene is all but non-existent here. How many know that tooth decay is spread through the sharing of utensils or the same dishes? The only thing I have heard about swine flu is that the Baxter company is trying to pass a mandatory vaccination law for infants and the elderly. This the same company that sent vaccines around the world with live bird flu virus in them, "by accident" The best any country should do is take a look at the source of these things and the most effective way to avoid the flu is by having a healthy immune system. Those of you that are antibiotic consumers, and by that I mean animal product eaters, you are the cause of your own demise. What's left after feeding animals antibiotics are the most antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, and the human is pretty much defenseless because everybody knows, eat the same antibiotics everyday, and they don't work, for example penicillin. It's time for the self-indulgent sense gratification seeking human to clean up their act. Just my 50 satang.

[CHINWA]

Just reading this thread makes me feel sick.

As I said previously, I am wearing my WWII gas mask, have stocked up on canned foods and ammunition. Is there anything I have overlooked?

I was serious about feeling sick too

Good post

You are a very cautious guy...

NO, you took all precautions as advised. You are a very cautious guy..., don't worry as you'll neverdie

[kplesq]

I think this is beyond silly. If the "experts" feel that this situation is serious enough, then they should have the courage to mandate closings. If not, then don't unnecessarily alarm the public. But the half-ass approach both accomplishes nothing and alarms the public. While I think the swine flu situation has been blown way out of proportion, I think the government owes to the public to stop just pretending to be doing something. It's really no longer an issue in the West largely because largely because governments moved quickly (maybe too quickly) and nipped it in the bud. It's really a non-issue at the moment. I wish the Thai government could be so rational.

[verydumbubba]

Long haul airline trips have to be at the top of any travelers danger list

Bubba

[elcent]

I am completely baffled by the idea that Sana has a say in matters of public health. Did he suddenly became a doctor? It might be possible after he checked out the physical health of a journalist in a bangkok hotel room and than used his power to intimidate the girl. Sana seem to be in charge of buying millions o face masks too. They will normally retail for 2 - 5 baht. I think Sanan will pay around 20 baht.

Over and over again it seems that the ethical standards of this government is at least a factor 10 times lower than the already not so good standards that Thaksin imposed on his stealing cabinet members.

Sanan should be told to shut up. IF someone can comment it is only the health minister, not a race rigging, vote buying former convict who was banned from politics for 5 year already for corruption.

Besides the fact that the recommendations are ridiculous, you cannot shut down a country and especially not for a relative mild sickness that will only slightly the increase the chances of getting killed by a regular influenza virus.

I suspect that there is a political motive here. By telling the people to stay home they want to avoid demonstrations which can disrupt another ministerial meeting, this time the Asean. It cannot be coincidence that the time frame fits exactly.

If it was really related to a matter of public health other people would be involved and certainly not Sanan and Suthep. The numbers do not add up either. Every day just a few hundred cases are reported, if there was so much danger the number would have been in the tens of thousands of cases a week not measured in less than a thousand. I start to believe that the government has hired one of the poll agencies to massage the numbers. I am talking about those poll agencies who think that the country has just 17 provinces and that they can extrapolate the outcome to the entire country. Thailand's statistics are as unreliable as thise polling agencies.

So the minister will have to stay away too, even they have diplomatic immunity hahahaha ...

Seriously, the number of infected and dead is higher than reported. Some hospitals are hopeless crowded, especially in the provinces.

The poor are held and squeezed for a week or longer. I think hundreds of thousands are waiting for the test results and being kept in hospitals and charge for the countryside quite a lot. It's a business venture. This circus accompanied with hysteria and has nothing to do with health care. Here the business is testing, when you have the virus your charges will be cut. When you're not having the flue you pay the full charges.

I now personally of one hopsital in a province that has close to 400 flu suspects

[Scott]

They media hype has long since died down in most Western countries with a free press. Early on it was big news. Now, it's there, but you have to look for it. Thailand, on the other hand, kept a muzzle on the press and on people being allowed to speak of it. So, now that's it gotten out, it's big news.

[chatette]

This is from U.S. CDC Web site on steps to prevent getting flu. Face masks will never stop you from getting the flu, unless they are the antigerm warfare type.

I haven't seen any of those worn by the masked, helmetless motorcycle-riding families and others keeping safe with their little disposable paper masks that they keep pulling up and down over their mouths and noses....

In areas with confirmed human cases of novel influenza A (H1N1) virus infection, the risk for infection can be reduced through a combination of actions. No single action will provide complete protection, but an approach combining the following steps can help decrease the likelihood of transmission. These recommended actions are:

Wash hands frequently with soap and water or use alcohol-based hand cleaner when soap and water are not available.

Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing.

Avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth

People who are sick with an influenza-like illness (ILI) (fever plus at least cough or sore throat and possibly other symptoms like runny nose, body aches, headaches, chills, fatigue, vomiting and diarrhea) should stay home and minimize contact with others, including avoiding travel, for 7 days after their symptoms begin or until they have been symptom-free for 24 hours, whichever is longer.

Avoid close contact (i.e. being within about 6 feet) with persons with ILI.

In addition, influenza antiviral medications are an important tool for the treatment and prevention of influenza, including novel H1N1. Also see Guidance on the use of antiviral medications.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

[neverdie]

Just reading this thread makes me feel sick.

As I said previously, I am wearing my WWII gas mask, have stocked up on canned foods and ammunition. Is there anything I have overlooked?

I was serious about feeling sick too

Good post

You are a very cautious guy...

NO, you took all precautions as advised. You are a very cautious guy..., don't worry as you'll neverdie

Ohh thanks for the Chinwa....I nearly forgot that I will neverdie

[Lopburi99]

Long haul airline trips have to be at the top of any travelers danger list

Bubba

Hmmm. Detroit to BKK - 26 hours (on a plane or crowded airport). Hmmm.

But Thailand is my home now. No postponed trip back. I'll take the necessary precautions.

[caughtintheact]

Let's see now. 90,000 reported cases and 329 deaths, so the odds of dying from it are .00478. So unless it mutates, the odds are pretty good that if you get infected you will not die. So the question is whether the death RATE increases as the flu spreads. The odds are pretty good that by far most of those who contact it will only get sick, but will not die.

As for face masks, it depends on the type http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/2...asks-protection, http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm and if you get it and survive, you will probably be immune to it. Some web searches indicate that people who get infected should wear face masks, but the sculpted type; older people are less susceptible, and that if you had the 1918 flue toy are immune from this one granted not many people are that old and still breathing, but I thought I would throw it in.

There is a lot of official information on swine flu at http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/

Some of the recommended actions are:

* Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.

* Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. Alcohol-based hands cleaners are also effective.

* Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth. Germs spread that way.

* Stay home if you get sick. CDC recommends that you stay home from work or school and limit contact with others to keep from infecting them.

# Follow public health advice regarding school closures, avoiding crowds and other social distancing measures.

# Find healthy ways to deal with stress and anxiety.

Keeping yourself healthy food and vitamins can help fight the disease as well. The CDC also ecommends keeping at least a 6 foot distance between yourself and other people, whenever possible.

[KhunOr]

Of course there's a great deal of panic. Everyone with flu-like symptoms is rushing to hospital. Chiang Mai Ram is full of flu victims but a doc there told me this weekend that none have Piggy Pox.

It is great for business.

Everyone should read up on the facts. The following great article is written by the author of the New York Times best selling book "The Bird Flu Hoax" which is about the massive fraud involved with that pandemic that never was. Packed full of useful informaton with references:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles.../Swine-Flu.aspx

[baht&sold]

Many Thais can be forgiven for getting hysterical over swine-flu, and the Govt can be forgiven for HAVING to react to 'hyped' hysteria.

Particularly after a 3 week campaign by Puea Thai spokesmen and MP's cynically fanning the flames of flu-fear for pure political opportunism. This culminated in the reds 'helpfully' surrounding hospitals and scaring patients in the N/NE when the Health Minister was visiting. This, along with calls by some Chulalongkorn docs/QUACKS to 'close the borders' (?!) has all ratcheted up a hysteria-driven public outcry for the Govt to take stricter measures.

PM Abhisit wisely REFUSED to close borders of course. However, one presumes this would be Puea Thai's response??? It's unfortunate the Govt has been forced to spend valuable time and resources placating the public as fear has been cynically whipped up, instead of concentrating 100% on those in higher-risk groups (especially those with pre-existing medical conditions).

Closing schools will perhaps placate some but expect shopping malls and other teen hang-outs to absolutely swell with hand-holding, nose tweaking, food-sharing teens (not that it makes much difference with the REALITY of fatalities being lower than even seasonal flu and the FACT swine-flu can NOT be contained anyways).

The UK came out last week and admitted it's IMPOSSIBLE to STOP the spread of swine-flu, thus they would instead concentrate resources on those in higher risk groups. This is a prudent course. Still, some who are healthy want their hands to be held and illogical re-assurance they are 'protected' (fine, but placating adult babies is a drain on Govt resources and comes at the expense of those who ARE ill, or more likely to be at risk...)

To those who SHOULD be more aware (especially Expats) but are still wanting their hands held by any Govt (a complete waste of valuable resources), please do get informed and stop being a drain on resources which are better used elsewhere.

[irwinfc]

spreading rapidly? really!? no more than the seasonal flu! no more than dengue! no more than malaria! people, there are more important and fatal diseases out there than H1N1. the suggestion by the so-called expert from CDC is senseless. i mean don't even think about cinemas, malls and schools. airconditioned buses and public vans are more crowded than any of the places they claim should be closed. can you seriously tell people to walk to work? or take a cab? or wait for the next bus/van? if people who give recommendations are real experts, then they should consider all aspects moreso the consequences of what they say.

[Mr lamai]

Why not listen to what educated health experts has to say? Just ignoring as most ppl here suggest will not help to prevent and stop the outbreak. Also bear in mind the outbreak is in the very very early stage but it has already taken so many lives. I hope the Domesday Sayers are wrong but we have to wait and see how the virus have mutated when it will hit Europe with full force in Dec or Jan.

[MongerSEA]

If the government shuts down public spaces where people meet and hang out, including schools, cinemas and theatres, morbidity would immediately decrease, she said.

If the government shuts down public spaces where politicians meet and hang out, including Parliament, the Cabinet and Ministries, stupidity would immediately decrease.

[moe666]

I am reading a book on the 1918 flu the powers that be in that time frame had the same attitude that some of the posters have on this forum it's just the flu. Yes it was just the flu but it killed 100 million people world wide the United States Army lost the same number of men to the flu that died in Viet Nam 50,000 it was just the flu.

One of the main reasons it spread in the army was because of over crowded living quarters and the shipment of men from one camp to another but it was only the flu. Most of the deaths occured in the first 10 weeks.

A man got on a street car in South Africa by the time he got of 3 people had died from the flu. When the 1918 flu started it was not very lethal but in a short time it was the grim reaper cutting a swath of death thru the US, 650,00 died, and the rest of the world.

[mirad]

It has been widely reported that face masks do nothing to stop the virus. There was also a story several weeks back in the NY Times that public health officials felt that closing the schools had no impact on the spread of the virus.

Face masks may or may not help a great deal, but they do raise awareness, seeing thousands publicly wearing masks may just help to educate everyone that this is an airborne disease & therefore crowded places maybe not the best place to be, or indeed if you don't need to be where you are would you be better off staying at home??

Closing private tuition centres, internet cafes etc is not the answer either it's too late for that, when you think each person only studies or uses them for a couple of hours each day begs the question where have they been for the rest of the day, University, Government school, work etc etc they will have spread the disease wherever they have been, as for restaraunts, bars, clubs, cinemas, shopping malls etc, even the noodle wagon on the street corner, you cannot close down the whole country, life goes on, as will people movement!!

It has like other countries gone passed the containment stage, the answer is in mass inocculation.

Thailand has to look at other countries such as the UK who are far more advanced in the process & is not afraid to tell the truth to the public, Thailand will have to dig deep & purchase the required amounts of anti-viral & start a nationwide programme of inoculation, treating only the "chronically sick" & hospitalised does not treat the flu carriers in the population still able to pass on the disease from person to person.

[caf]

Sanan to propose that all schools close

<snip>

he will propose to the cabinet meeting the closure of all schools nationwide for two to four weeks to help curb the flu outbreak.

it was not necessary to shut down entertainment venues for the time being.

would like to know why one must close the other can stay open?! Just wondering

How much loss of revenue is there when you close a school?