Uk Visa Rejected.....how Long To Re-apply?

[G05DVD]

Question.... If I go ahead and marry the girl (ulp!) when I go back in September is she automatically entitled to a Visa as my spouse?

[chanthas]

hello there paul

im no expert on visas,but me and my mrs did apply (and granted) late last year for avisit visa.first one.

if i was you i wouldnt go down the appeal route, as you say would take to long.

my mrs had the same problam,with the loss of her first passport,what we did was to go to the local police station and report this as lost,and they gave us apolice report,we needed this also for the issue of her new passport,and the passport office gave it back to us after inspecting this report (handy) and issued the new pp.

then when we applied for the vv we submitted this police report along with the application,because it asks you on the form if this is your1st pp or not and were are your previous pp.

im sure this was crucial info for the eco because when we recieved the appliction back this was kept by the eco for there records i suspect.

Also maybe another useful bit of info

when we recieved the new pp my mrs come on all my visa runs with me so therfore she got all relevant stamps in the pp,

it looks good for her to show that shes left her country and rtd within the visa issued,even if it was for 1 hour,we used to go cambodia literaly in and out, it will look better than putting a new pp in with no travel history.

i hope this helps you in some way

jp

Many thanks for the advise.

Do you mind my asking when you say 'my mrs' are you married?

My girlfriend insists her passport is still 'somewhere' in the house (!) but despite several frantic attempts to locate it she hasn't managed to do so. She has however managed to acquire a new passport without any issues.

I totally agree about the latter part of your comments. The fact that they've left Thailand and actually returned there is considered an important criteria by the UK Border Agency in granting a Visa for the UK.

The annoying thing is she has travelled to Vietnam and Combodia and her old passport would have reflected this hence it is indeed a sad loss.

Regards Paul

yep we are now married and are living in london together,but when she applied for the V V we wasnt married,(bf & gf).

Also on the applicatoin form she clearly stated that she wanted to VISIT for the full six months and i also mentioned this in my sponser letter,

and also 1 week before the application went in,i did deposit 70,000 bt in her bank book wich was also submitted along with the application,

dodgy maybe ,but this must have been ok for the eco checking,as the V Vwas granted no problams,not even aphone call from them,to be honest with you i didnt think we would get it 1st attempt.

choc de cap

[theoldgit]

There was a piece on the news in the UK yesterday about how the Border Agencies are picking up a lot of 'baddies' (they quoted 4000) thanks to the stricter controls at the airports. One poor sod heading off on his honeymoon was arrested and banged up for failure to appear at court.

There is another thread about this, it's the increasing roll out of the UKBA's much heralded e-borders where the UKBA's warning index

and the advance passenger information supplied by the airlines is being used to detect crime and to aprehend undesirables and fugitives. The system is already linked to the PNC and there are plans to link the borders to the Social Security database, I suspect there will be a fair few rude awakenings in the not too distant future. E-borders has been about the only growth industry within the UKBA of late.

Going back to the topic, a tourist visa is issued for just that, a tourist trip. People do sometimes have long holidays but it is up to the applicant and his or her sponsor to satisfy the ECO that the planned trip is reasonable and affordable and that the applicant will return home after the trip.

[theoldgit]

Question.... If I go ahead and marry the girl (ulp!) when I go back in September is she automatically entitled to a Visa as my spouse?

The short answer is no, the visa still has to applied for and the evidence supplied.

All will depend on the visa applied for, settlement or tourist, the major benefit is a right of appeal.

[7by7]

One does have limited rights of appeal. I've not had much time to investigate (several sections of legal nonsense quoted on the refusal) but have spoken to a guy I met in Hua Hin who also got refused and it seems one can appeal on the grounds of racial discimination. He did this and they won the appeal but it took over 5 months to process.

I'm going to appeal as a matter of principal but we're going to put a new application in when I'm back over in Thailand in September.

I would be grateful if you could provide further information on this, such as a link to the appropriate part of the immigration rules.

Though, to be honest, I don't think it is so. How can you claim racial discrimination when all visa applicants are, by definition, non British and in Bangkok over 90% of applicants are successful?

It's certainly true to state that your intended should have a decent bank balance.

Not so. I know from forums such as this of many applicants who have obtained a visit visa when they have been virtually potless, with all the funds coming from their sponsor. I know three people personally in the same situation who have got their visas, including my sister-in-law last December. (She was the only family visit, all the others were girlfriend visiting boyfriend.)

Funds need to be available for the visit, but those funds can come from the applicant, the sponsor, a combination of both or even a third party.

Padding an applicant's bank account prior to applying can cause problems with the application, unless one satisfactorily explains in the application where the money came from and what it is for.

Only marry the girl if the two of you want to spend the rest of your lives together; don't marry her just to get a visa!

To qualify for settlement in the UK as your wife she and you will need to show that the relationship is genuine and you can support and accommodate her in the UK without recourse to public funds.

Edited July 24, 2009 by 7by7

[G05DVD]

Question.... If I go ahead and marry the girl (ulp!) when I go back in September is she automatically entitled to a Visa as my spouse?

The short answer is no, the visa still has to applied for and the evidence supplied.

All will depend on the visa applied for, settlement or tourist, the major benefit is a right of appeal.

In your opinion will the fact that she's now been refused a Visa cast a shadow over any future applications? What I'm getting at is are we best putting the refused application down to experience and re-applying OR should I try to lodge an appeal? Points raised by the ECO can be addressed other than the issue with her having lost her previous passport which is simply a fact.

I'm being told appeals take a considerable amount of time to process plus one has limited rights to one.

[7by7]

Only certain types of visit visas have a right of appeal, e.g. family visits. If she applied for a visa to visit her boyfriend, this does not have a right of appeal, even on spurious racial discrimination grounds; unless you have definite documentary proof otherwise.

Having been refused a visit visa is no bar to applying for settlement; but you and she will need to deal with the lost passport issue.

[jaiyenyen]

Another piece of advice that might help someone.

I heard a story a few months back, of a girl that was granted a 6 month visa to the UK. On arrival at Heathrow she was asked by immigration, how long she intended to stay. She told them 1 month, But actually returned to Thailand after staying in the UK for 3 months.

2 years later, and she has had a visa application turned down on the basis of not returning to Thailand after 1 month on her previous visit.

A bit harsh I thought.

[RAZZELL]

The common string running through this thread, shows that it's the 'assets' that the applicant can show at first appearance at the office, that make all the difference.

I know at least one girl who got a visa and had no job and no assets.

You just have to prove a few things to get the visa.

Is the relationship genuine and "subsisting".

Can you support her. Will she return.

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

In your opinion will the fact that she's now been refused a Visa cast a shadow over any future applications? What I'm getting at is are we best putting the refused application down to experience and re-applying OR should I try to lodge an appeal? Points raised by the ECO can be addressed other than the issue with her having lost her previous passport which is simply a fact.

I'm being told appeals take a considerable amount of time to process plus one has limited rights to one.

A failed visa application can infact help.

It "proves" to a certain extent you are in a relationship.

To apply again in a few months proves this.

RAZZ

Edited July 26, 2009 by RAZZELL

[RAZZELL]

Another piece of advice that might help someone.

I heard a story a few months back, of a girl that was granted a 6 month visa to the UK. On arrival at Heathrow she was asked by immigration, how long she intended to stay. She told them 1 month, But actually returned to Thailand after staying in the UK for 3 months.

2 years later, and she has had a visa application turned down on the basis of not returning to Thailand after 1 month on her previous visit.

A bit harsh I thought.

This sounds like a "story".

If she abided by the length of her original visa ie returned within the 6 month limit - I can't see how they can use it as means of refusal.

RAZZ

[G05DVD]

I would be grateful if you could provide further information on this, such as a link to the appropriate part of the immigration rules.

Though, to be honest, I don't think it is so. How can you claim racial discrimination when all visa applicants are, by definition, non British and in Bangkok over 90% of applicants are successful?

Your right of appeal .... AS STATED ON REFUSAL OF ENTRY CLEARANCE DOCUMENT

Your application does not attract a full right of appeal under section 82(1) of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002. Your right of appeal is limited to any or all of the grounds referred to in section 84(1)b. and c. of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 namely:

b. the decision is unlawful under section 19B of the Race Relations Act 1976 (c.74) (discrimination by public authorities);

c. that the decision is unlawful under section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c.42) (public authority not to act contrary to Human Rights Convention) as being incompatible with the appellant's Convention rights

Presumably the guy I mentioned appealed on the grounds his girlfriend had been racially discriminated against ie. referred to above under section 19B.

When you state 'OVER 90% of applicants are successful' is this a documented fact????? I think not.

Many thanks to all for comments on this post I've learnt a lot. There ARE certain important criteria that must be met and maybe I was somewhat blase' with our application. I didn't see any issues in so much as I considered I was proving the fact I could support her simply by showing I had a bit of cash in the bank and supplying a few holiday snaps.

There's also the human element of course ie. the specific ECO you drop on and what mood he / she is in on that particular day.

Irrespective of what several members have commented I also think it's important to make sure your girlfriend or intended or whatever can show she's a few thousand Baht in her bank account. When one thinks about this rationally it makes sense ie. should anything untowards or unfortunate occur during her visit she needs to have the means of getting herself back to Thailand.

That also raises the most important criteria in my opinion ie. UK Border Agencies need to be convinced they will indeed return to Thailand.

Thanks again.........

Kind REgards Paul

Edited July 26, 2009 by G05DVD

[7by7]

b. the decision is unlawful under section 19B of the Race Relations Act 1976 (c.74) (discrimination by public authorities);

Yes, I am aware of what the refusal notice says.

"I want to appeal on the grounds that you discriminated against me because I am Thai!" Yeah, that'll work. Although the Bangkok embassy handles visa applications for neighbouring countries, and of course non Thais live and work in Thailand, the majority of applicants are Thai and the majority of applicants are successful.

Still, if you want to try; good luck.

You could also try appealing on human rights grounds; that will have the same effect.

When you state 'OVER 90% of applicants are successful' is this a documented fact????? I think not.

This page gives you links to the visa statistics for all posts worldwide, going back to 2001/02. If you look at Bangkok you will see that the success rate is consistently above 90%. Whether you choose to believe these figures is up to you.

[G05DVD]

b. the decision is unlawful under section 19B of the Race Relations Act 1976 (c.74) (discrimination by public authorities);

Yes, I am aware of what the refusal notice says.

"I want to appeal on the grounds that you discriminated against me because I am Thai!" Yeah, that'll work. Although the Bangkok embassy handles visa applications for neighbouring countries, and of course non Thais live and work in Thailand, the majority of applicants are Thai and the majority of applicants are successful.

Still, if you want to try; good luck.

You could also try appealing on human rights grounds; that will have the same effect.

When you state 'OVER 90% of applicants are successful' is this a documented fact????? I think not.

This page gives you links to the visa statistics for all posts worldwide, going back to 2001/02. If you look at Bangkok you will see that the success rate is consistently above 90%. Whether you choose to believe these figures is up to you.

I'm not interested in getting involved in some petty squabble, why ask for further information if you already know all the facts? I simply provided you with what information I have as you requested. I do not and have not ever claimed to be knowledgeable on this subject which is why I subscribed to the forum.

Secondly, I personally know an individual who successfully appealed and did so citing Racial Discrimination. As previously mentioned rights of appeal against a refusal to issue a tourist visa are pretty much limited to this which is why he took that particular route. He also wired his girlfriend 50,000 Baht to put in her bank account perhaps this was also a factor.

Finally our particular application for a tourist visa took 56 days to process the end result of which was a refusal, that is a fact. I did receive an automated email on the 53rd day in response to several I'd sent in a vain attempt to get some sort of idea of when they were going to process the application. At that time we were hoping my girlfriend would be travelling in less than 2 weeks (she should be in the UK now) obviously at that point flights were much more expensive and harder to come by etc. Part of this email stated........

Due to increased volume of visa applications and enquiries, we regret that we are unable to respond to phone messages or e-mail enquiries about matters already covered in the comprehensive guidance leaflets on our commercial partner website - www.vfs-uk-th.com or UK Border Agency website www.ukvisas.gov.uk. We will not respond to any enquiries that can be answered by reviewing these websites. You should only contact the Embassy if after checking these websites your enquiry remains unanswered.

Please do not contact us if you have already submitted an application, as this will delay the processing of your application. We aim to process straightforward non-settlement applications within 4-6 weeks and straightforward settlement applications within 12 weeks of receiving your application and supporting documents in our office. If we require further information from you we will contact you by telephone or where possible, by e-mail.

Presumably this means their figures aren't going to look so good on the Web site next year?

She received a text message three days later stating her documents were available for collection from Regents House (a 17 hour round trip for her) and was handed the refusal upon arrival.

I'd also like to point out she'd already been turned away from Regents House some months earlier (another 17 hour round trip) being told she couldn't apply for a tourist visa more than 3 months in advance of the proposed travel date.

Many thanks to all who have posted their thoughts and opinions on this subject particularly the chap who actually initiated the topic which I somewhat hijacked!

We intend to reapply soon and will throw a lot more paperwork at it this time. It would be nice to think that it will be processed in a more timely fashion on this occasion.

Kind Regards

Paul

Edited July 27, 2009 by G05DVD