Carry your passport with you always....

[NYCDemimonde]

I've always know it is the law that you must carry your passport at all times here...but, who does that? It would be ruined in a matter of months or stolen.

    I was walking down the street (near Sukhimwit 22) last night with another American friend around 8pm. We weren't doing anything that would attract attention and were sober, etc. 6 immigration policemen walked up to us and asked to see our passports. We didn't have them but did offer lots of other forms of ID....they would not even look at the other IDs....they said, "We are with Immigration, we only look at passports."

    We were very polite, all smiles, offered to go get the passports at our apartments (my friend's apt was about a 5 minute walk away)....all to no avail. I am 99% sure that they were not looking for any sort of bribe, as they were all surrounding us and very stern.

    They pulled out handcuffs (but did not use them) and said, "Get in the truck."

    We got to immigration on Suan Plu, had our mugshots taken and we were fingerprinted. We were told that we had one hour to produce our passports. If we did not produce them in one hour, we would go to the prosecutor and then spend the night in detention. But, of course, we weren't allowed to leave to go get our passports!

    At least we were allowed to freely use our mobile phones and thank god mine was fully charged with lots of credit. Every farang friend I called told me that their passports were on file at their schools....so, of course, they couldn't show up to immigration without their passport.

    They were quite intimidating the entire time....the station was definately not the LOS. They never asked us what we were doing in Thailand or any other questions really. They just kept reminding us that if our passports didn't show up soon, "it would not be good."

    Anyway, I got a farang friend to bring a Thai friend of his to the station. While my farang friend waited in the taxi outside immigration, the thai friend came in, got my apt key, went to get my passport, and made it back to the police station moments after I was told that I had 5 more minutes, or it was time to go to the prosecutor and then detention until the morning.

   About one hour later, they gave us a confession to sign and let us go.

   If I were new here had no friends in BKK....or if I didn't have my mobile with it's phonebook, I have no idea what would have happened. I guess they would have me sit in detention until my passport magically appeared!

   I don't know if this is a new crackdown, or if it was just my unlucky day.....but, that's my drama from last night.....so, just trying to spread the word.

[taxexile]

food for thought indeed.

anybody know if a colour photocopy of back page of pasport and visa/tm card etc. will satisfy these goons.

or thai driving license.

[Eastender]

The same thing happened to me yesterday in the eastern suburbs of Bangkok on a soi off a main road.

Luckily I saw your post the day before and so had my passport with me for the first time in a year.  Thankyou very much.

I am going to put up a fresh post to warn people.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It sounds like one should carry the passport, at least until this current Immigration activity runs out of puff. I never have done so before either. In a couple of decades.

[huski]

I just carry my THAI driver's license, i've been pulled over while driving a few times. The last few times I don't even show the officer my THAI license because they take it down to the police station until you pay the ticket. It has been easier to have the officer take the fine down to the station for me, if you know what i mean.

Of course thats traffic police and not immigration so after reading that first post, I will throw a copy of my passport in the glove box.

I realise a farang could technically have a valid THAI driver's license but have overstayed his visa, dodgy stamps etc. so immigration officers walking around Bangkok may not be looking just for valid ID, maybe a juicy bust.

Ok, maybe a copy of the passport in my wallet, but i'm not carrying my original around.

[dlfisher]

I'm rather with Huski on this. And besides, what if your passport is at say, The Vietnam Embassy, being processed for a visa to go there. You have the right to do that, even in Bangkok I would think.

Just some other food for thought is all

[JonnieB]

just curious, are you a whitie whitie and neat looking or brown or black skinned.  generally wanting to see if profiling by race/ethnicity being used by the police.

everyone says the thais are so reasonable and level headed (unless they are upset or insulted first)...jai yen yen and nam jai and all that...so why not allow the reasonable step of letting you just go to your apt. to produce the passport since as you say, you were only 5 minutes from home.  of course one of the officers would have had to go with you and that is not really their job...to make things easy for tourists/residents but come-on...lets be reasonable here.  sure, technically you were breaking the law by not carrying the actual passport with you but again, be reasonable.

what would have happened to a tourist in your situation.  they wouldn't have all the contacts, let alone a thai mobile phone with which to make calls for help.  that would make a nice story to tell everyone back home and surely encourage increased tourism to the "Land Of Smiles."

also, no reason to treat you like a criminal (okay maybe you were a low level one for the evening) but just because of APEC...do we all have to suffer this.  farangs, vendors, homeless, sex-workers, flower garland vendors, elephants now...when will it all end!!!

[Axel]

Yeah, I guess it's better to carry your real PP at the moment.

If it's at an embassy, how good is your Thai to explain?

Today I drove from Silom to Lakhsi (2nd phase highway) Airport to Samut Prakarn, back to airport and down to DingDaeng. After counting about 50 of the guys in brown I stopped counting. Believe they are in final training. The also blocked the outbound lane to let a convoy pass. Nothing special with that, except all cars in the convoy consisted of police pick ups.

Also visited an airline-office in the customs area wher eI have been many times and left my name-card for a "Visitor's tag.

This time, "No name card, Passport you". When I asked what happened, APEC. And this is a private security company.

So repeat, carry your pp for this month.

I would as well limit visits to PatPong, Nana, Cowboy, Soi 7 Sukh etc. to the absolute necessary, without PP.

[heychay]

NYCDemimonde's story is sickening. in what other countries does this happen- burma? vietnam? china? even in the u.s you cannot be stopped for just walking down the street and asked for id. are the western embassies aware of the police state this place is turning into? do they care? it will be interesting to see if these attitudes change after apec or if they use apec as an excuse to institute these measures and keep them up.

[Maigo6]

NYCDemimonde's story is sickening. in what other countries does this happen- burma? vietnam? china? even in the u.s you cannot be stopped for just walking down the street and asked for id. are the western embassies aware of the police state this place is turning into? do they care? it will be interesting to see if these attitudes change after apec or if they use apec as an excuse to institute these measures and keep them up.

They did have one of the worlds most wanted terrorists in the country, APEC is here, it's a sign of the times we live in, if they could catch a terrorist cell before that cell could do harm to maybe hundreds of people, the Thai Authorities would be lauded worldwide,rightfully so too.

And its random checks that may just turn up something suspicious. They are not out to get you, you just happen to be in Thailand at this time, it's nothing personal.

Yes you may think you do not look much like a terrorist, but how does a terrorist look? If APEC go's off without any problems , i have no doubts things will ease off, Dont Panic. But dont expect Thai police to give you preferential treatment, it's not personal, it's thier job.

( I was once in San Sebastien, Spain, got caught up in a Basque demonstration, baton wielding police, tear gas, rubber bullets, i was a tourist, they was not asking questions though, just hitting everyone within striking distance)

cheers

[brianbrain]

I was walking down the street (near Sukhimwit 22)...

Guess where I am right now?.. no, not the police station... internet cafe in Sukhumvit 22. The thing is, I don't have my passport on me, just a copy. Think I'd better "leg it" back to my apartment.

There seem to be some very valid reasons why I should not have my passport on me - visa application etc. - so I think this needs testing. If I get caught with passport AND copy on me I'll just show them the copy. I can always "remember" the passport in my back pocket if things turn tits-up. Well there's only one way to find out... :-P

If it happens, and I don't expect it will, I'll let you guys know.

Incidentally, I know an Indian guy who was stopped and searched in Sukhumvit twenty-something about 4 weeks ago. No passport. He explained where he was working and was let go. My god, he didn't even have a WP! The sun must have been shining that day :-)

[sawatdee2k3]

Are you people serious?  Thailand is it's own sovereign country and has a right to question whether or not someone in the country is there legally or not.  

Contrary to earlier posts, in the U.S. you DO have to carry official government ID on you at all times.  Any police officer has the right to come up to you and ask for ID, do not think otherwise just because it doesn't happen that often.  I'm sorry to hear you don't know the laws in your own country.  

Also, for a foreigner to get a visa for the US it is much more difficult than it is to get a visa for Thailand.  The US is no where near as lenient with people on this as the Thai's are.

I think some people on this forum have been used to the Thai government letting them stay in Thailand long-term on consecutive 30 day tourist visas.  The US and many other country's would never allow such a thing.

[dropout]

sawatdee2k3,

Wrong!!  By the way, what official government ID are you referring to?  Most people only have a driver's license and a social security card. However, you are only required to carry your driver's license when you are driving.  And at not time are you required to carry around and produce your social. There is not requirement that you carry your ID at all times at least if your a US citizen.  Maybe you should learn the laws in the US before making blanket criticisms.

Furthermore, except if you are driving a car stopped at a legal sobriety checkpoint, the police are only allowed to detain you and ask you questions including requesting identification if they have "reasonable suspicion" you have commited a crime.  Even then at all times you have the right to refuse to speak let alone provide any information.  Please provide me with a single case where a citizen walking down the street was arrested for not having an ID. Trust me the rights guaranteed Thai citizens are not nearly as generous as those available to US citizens in the US.   Get a clue!

[sawatdee2k3]

Official government ID can be drivers license or govt. issued ID.  I'm sorry dropout, but you're wrong.  You must have valid ID on you at all times in U.S., I know what I'm talking about.  

Also, aliens in the US must carry their green card on them if they're a resident alien at ALL times.  And ANY foreigner must have their passport/visa on them at all times.    

Just out of curiousity, why are you calling yourself dropout?  Is there more to this?

[dropout]

OK, I'm curious is that a state, federal or local law?  You are just simply wrong.  People cannot be questioned let alone picked up and arrested because they do not have an ID or refuse to produce identification absent other circumstance involving a crime or violation of law.  Dropout is a pseudonym I use because I made enough money that I don't have to work anymore and can devote my time educating uninformed individuals such as yourself.

[Maigo6]

This is not about The United States, this is about Thailand.

If the Thai's want to stop people in the street and ask for passport, what's the problem?

Thailand is a relaxed society, thats why so many forgieners come here, it's just the time's we live in.

It's the age of global terrorism, G W Bush is coming, they are desperate for there to be no problems, personally i think They are doing the right things. Maybe one of these random checks will lead to the arrest of another wanted terrorist. If you think Thailand is a police state, try some south American countries.

[taxexile]

dropout said...

can devote my time educating uninformed individuals such as yourself

shouldn't that read

"can devote my time to becoming an obnoxious and pompous fart"

[wilson steer]

I carry a photocopy of my passport, notarized at Thai immigration (for 300 baht) rubber stamped and signed. I did this after a similar request to produce my passport because I witnessed a falang punch-up.

(They let my girlfriend fetch it).

If I were in the same situation, I have to say I would remain calm and friendly, ask an officer if he would take me in his cop car to fetch it and produce it and tell the cop I would pay his expenses for taking me in person, to the hotel/apartment. I would offer 1000 baht and up it to 3000 baht if haggled.

Believe me money is number one in Thailand. Bribery works so you just have to do it. What's the alternative; More expense, bad feeling, court, jail for a few nights, possible black marks.

Money has got me out of a lot of scrapes, (even when I've been in the right)!

???

[dropout]

sawatdee2k3,

This is a layman's explanation from NOLO website.  Now please go away and stop embarrasing yourself.

Police Questioning Prior to Arrest

If you haven't been arrested, but a police officer wants to question you about a crime, what should you do? Here are some tips.

Refusing to answer a police officer's questions is not a crime. Of course, people often voluntarily assist the police by supplying information that might help the police make an arrest. But the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the "right of silence." A police officer generally cannot arrest a person simply for failure to respond to questions. This means that unless a police officer has "probable cause" to make an arrest or a "reasonable suspicion" to conduct a "stop and frisk," a person approached by the police officer has the legal right to walk away. But the fact that there may be a legal right to walk away doesn't mean this is a wise move. This is because there is no real way to tell what information the officer is using as a basis for his or her actions. In fact, the officer may have information that gives him or her a valid legal basis to make an arrest or to conduct a "stop and frisk," even if the individual is, in truth, innocent of any wrongdoing. If that is the case, an officer may forcibly detain an innocent individual who starts to leave the scene of an interview.

Common sense and self-protection suggest that people who intend to walk away from a police officer make sure that the officer does not intend to arrest or detain them. A good question might be, "Officer, I'm in a hurry, and I'd prefer not to talk to you right now. You won't try to stop me from leaving, right?" If the officer replies that the person is not free to leave, the person should remain at the scene and leave the question of whether the detention is correct to the courts at a later time.

Even though, as a general rule, a person doesn't have to respond to a police officer's questions, this may not hold true if the officer suspects the person of loitering. Laws in effect in many states generally define loitering as "wandering about from place to place without apparent business, such that the person poses a threat to public safety." Under these laws, if a police officer sees a person loitering, the officer can demand identification and an explanation of the person's activities. If the person fails to comply, the officer can arrest the person for loitering. Therefore, the refusal to answer questions is a problem only if the officer has also observed the person loitering.

Another situation where answers to police questions are usually required is when drivers are stopped for suspected traffic violations. Traffic offenses such as speeding and unsafe lane changes are generally classified as "infractions," for which drivers are given citations in lieu of arrest. However, an officer has the right to demand personal identification -- usually a driver's license and the vehicle registration. A driver's refusal to supply the information elevates the situation to a more serious offense, for which the driver usually can be arrested. The simple refusal to answer questions is not a crime, but the refusal to supply identification, combined with the suspected commission of a traffic offense, is.

Arrest Rights

[sawatdee2k3]

I didn't say you could be arrested for not carrying ID, what will happen is you'll be taken to your local police station and your identity will be determined there.  If you have any outstanding warrants, THEN you'd be arrested.  If not, you're on your way with no problems.

BUT  

Needless to say, it does not happen that often that a police officer in the US will just come up to you and ask for your ID and if you don't have it, take you down to the PD.  But if you're unlucky enough to be in an area known for crime (drugs, prostitution, etc), you will increase your odds dramatically in having this situation arise.

I didn't mean to imply that you're possibly a dropout of some type of educational institution.  You're probably referring to your view on life and how you've 'dropped out' of the daily corporate grind or something to that affect.

And, YES, this is about Thailand and not US.  Didn't mean to stray off topic.  It's just that it seems that *some* farong in Thailand *seem* to think that they have a right to be in Thailand without any right to be questioned of their residency status.  Not many country's would put up with foreigners with so much leniency, I guess it goes to say that Thai's probably do want farong there.  But as any other society, doesn't want the ones who skirt the law on a regular basis.

[dropout]

taxexile,

Are you agreeing with sawatdee2k3 and his assinine statements about US law.  If so, you should take the same advice I gave him.  In my opinion, a person shouldn't be telling other people to "learn the law in their own country" and then give them an incorrect recitation of that law.  Don't you agree?

[dropout]

"I didn't say you could be arrested for not carrying ID, what will happen is you'll be taken to your local police station and your identity will be determined there.  If you have any outstanding warrants, THEN you'd be arrested.  If not, you're on your way with no problems."

Backtracking, huh. Unfortunately, you are wrong again.  Can't you read, unless you are suspected of a crime, you have the right to continue walking past and refuse to answer any questions. It is simply not a crime or in anyway illegal not to have an ID on you.  The police cannot absent, again, evidence of a crime take you down to the police station and determine your identity.  The only time you are required to produce identification is in a vehicle and you have been pulled over for a traffic violation. I've never heard of a law for which you cannot be fined, cited or arrested. Just admit you are wrong and, next time, you should be less obnoxious when you start criticizing people on the board.

[sawatdee2k3]

Dropout - take an E and relax bud.  

I want you to print out your statement from Nolo and carry it around with you and next time you're in a high crime area and you get questioned about your identity from a police officer, read your statement to the cop and see how far you get into it before you get carted off.

The law is not a federal one and is enforced by city's, county's and municipalities.

But we're WAY off topic here.  This is about Thailand.

[dropout]

sawatdee2k3,

well at least now you have conceded you don't know the laws of the country you live in just alleged improper enforcement in high crime areas where i don't hang out

but obviously you take E to relax and chill so maybe you're experience is different and you have no problem when people step all over your constitutional rights which you obviously aren't aware of anyway so what difference does it make

[JonnieB]

in reply to what happens if your passport is legimately at another embassy during a visa application process, i think the answer is to produce the little receipt or stub they give you in order to get your passport back.  it is not much but that is all you have and it's the truth.  even in thailand i would assume, the truth is a perfect defense.  also carry, of course, a copy of the relevant passort pages with you during the interim.

i didn't know you could get thai immigration to notarize copies of your passport.  i have gone to carrying the original with me during these times...but if things ever ease up again, i might go back to copies...notarized copies that is  ::