Hurry! Get That Body Out Of The Street!

[johnnymoretti]

Yesterday, while returning home from Samitivej Hospital in the early afternoon, traffic came to a virtual standstill in the oncoming lanes of Srinakarin Road and Rama IX. In the middle of the street was a motorbike victim, sprawled out with full-face helmet and work smock. He had been hit, or hit someone else, but the sad part was this:

Four people came out to the street and lifted him by each extremity, head dangling back by the weight of his helmet. He was alive, but certainly seriously injured. They put him up on the sidewalk in front of a bus stop. Onlookers just looked...some continued to read their paper.

The traffic continued passed. And the helpful four looked bewildered. Did they do this to help this man?? Or did they think the flow of traffic was important enough to let their bus through to pick them up.

We continued driving home.

Here's the kicker: I spent 12 years as a firefighter and medic in California. But for some reason, I can't bring myself to render aid to a victim that cannot understand my language (I would need to ask questions regarding pain, etc) and I fear that someone might pin the fault of the accident on me, even if I was clearly not. Sounds both unethical and immoral, but its a fear that drives me insane. I want to help so bad, but often leave it up to society to take care of their own.

I was once trained to help save lives and its an innate urge. Self-restraint is near impossible.

What would you do?

[ScubaBuddha]

Good post Johnny. As a former police officer and EMT, (coincidentally also from Cali) I can completely agree with you. In fact I have posted something similar previously about this. We have all heard the rumors about a farang that stopped to help then got detained until they can prove they are not involved/responsible. I think the "logic" being, why are you motivated to help if you weren't responsible? I used to think this was urban legend dreamed up by some disgruntled expats as a rationalization for not caring or stopping to help, until it happened to an EMT friend of mine. sadly he was actually detained at the police station. I don't remember now if he ended up having to pay his way out. Suffice it to say, he doesn't stop anymore.

I agree with you completely, it is a very difficult thing to pass by injured people when it is ingrained in us to always help those in need. I do keep a small EMT kit with me and I have decided that I will only stop to help under two circumstances: 1) It is a farang injured 2) It is a child injured, Thai or farang. I figure if I can help a child, the Police can do to me whatever they want, it'll be worth it. I will also stop if it's clear there is no one else there so at least I can get EMS (if you can call it that) rolling.

SB

[johnnymoretti]

Thanks, SB

Good to know I'm in good company. I first came to Thailand (Khao Lak, actually) two weeks after the tsunami to find something to do to help. No use in being trained and not using skills. We look for those in need, to satisfy our own ability to render aid. Not a selfish act of self-worth, but an act of kindness and the satisfaction that our skillsets have enabled us to provide such act. For me, I just got on a plane and headed over, never having been here before. I fell in love with both Thailand and my now wife. We gave birth to our first (mine, too) just 9 days ago. Hence leaving the hospital noted in my post above.

This isn't the first time this has happened. In Ban Nam Khem, I rode past a man that had just been hit on his motorbike on a rural street. I pulled over just 30m past the accident. People running down the street to his aid. His head pouring blook onto the baked asphalt. I put down my kickstand and turned around to watch. My mind raced as to what I should do first if I were to run up and try to help. How could I ask questions or make any assessment on the victim? How to take vitals and pass info onto anyone? How to keep others from moving the victim for fear of further injuries? I sat motionless.

Moments later a 'pickup' ambulance arrived. No backboard. No C-Spine protection. No guerney. Load and go. I wondered if he ever survived. And rode off.

The day at the beach was not as I had hoped for. He was on my mind so much. I wanted to go to the hospital in Takuapa to see if he was there and how he faired. I'm sure he was dead. And closed that chapter in my mind.

Thank, again, SB. I'll take your two circumstances and adopt them. Makes perfect sense to me.

PS: I'm originally from Chico.

Butte County Fire & Rescue, Company 42

Fire Captain, BLM, Susanville District, Ravendale Fire Station

EMT-IID; Over-The-Edge Rescue; Confined Space RSQ; Swiftwater; Trench RSQ

Hard not to render help with the gift of the training I've received.

[Crossy]

I've edited the topic title slightly, wouldn't want such an important thread to attract the wrong sort of attention

[ScubaBuddha]

Thanks, SB

Good to know I'm in good company. I first came to Thailand (Khao Lak, actually) two weeks after the tsunami to find something to do to help. No use in being trained and not using skills. We look for those in need, to satisfy our own ability to render aid. Not a selfish act of self-worth, but an act of kindness and the satisfaction that our skillsets have enabled us to provide such act. For me, I just got on a plane and headed over, never having been here before. I fell in love with both Thailand and my now wife. We gave birth to our first (mine, too) just 9 days ago. Hence leaving the hospital noted in my post above.

This isn't the first time this has happened. In Ban Nam Khem, I rode past a man that had just been hit on his motorbike on a rural street. I pulled over just 30m past the accident. People running down the street to his aid. His head pouring blook onto the baked asphalt. I put down my kickstand and turned around to watch. My mind raced as to what I should do first if I were to run up and try to help. How could I ask questions or make any assessment on the victim? How to take vitals and pass info onto anyone? How to keep others from moving the victim for fear of further injuries? I sat motionless.

Moments later a 'pickup' ambulance arrived. No backboard. No C-Spine protection. No guerney. Load and go. I wondered if he ever survived. And rode off.

The day at the beach was not as I had hoped for. He was on my mind so much. I wanted to go to the hospital in Takuapa to see if he was there and how he faired. I'm sure he was dead. And closed that chapter in my mind.

Thank, again, SB. I'll take your two circumstances and adopt them. Makes perfect sense to me.

PS: I'm originally from Chico.

Butte County Fire & Rescue, Company 42

Fire Captain, BLM, Susanville District, Ravendale Fire Station

EMT-IID; Over-The-Edge Rescue; Confined Space RSQ; Swiftwater; Trench RSQ

Hard not to render help with the gift of the training I've received.

What an amazing story. You could to write a book I think! I would be interested to hear more about what you were able to do during the tsunami. I was stateside when it happened and considered doing what you did but was unable to make the trek back.

I didn't mention it in the last post, but on Songkran I had a very similer expierience as the one which motivated your OP. I saw a Thai woman who looked as though she had been run over by a car. She was in a bad way, and I wanted to stop but I had my whole family with me (Mom, Dad, two young nieces, sis and bro-in-law, who are both doctors) But I regretfully didn't. An image of all of us sitting at the local police station had flashed through my mind. Lucily the local tombon ambulance was nearly there. The only people that were helping her were a farang couple!!

The state of the EMS system is obviously not up to western standards yet, but they have made huge advances in some areas recently. In terms of EMS, it's either all or nothing. In Phuket and Bangkok at least, there are now proper BLS and ALS ambulances similar to what we are used to seeing with AMR, Westmed etc. back home. I got a good look inside one of the ALS buses here recently. They seemed to have proper gear. EKG, Defibrillator, C-spine immobilization gear, guerney. They are usually run by private hospitals, will often have ER nurses (trained beyond the paramedic level) and even doctors on board. I see some are labeled "Mobile ICU." These BLS/ALS ambulances will usually be dispatched if it is a farang needing help. Unfortunatly there are not enough and the pick-up truck meat wagon "body snatchers" still exist. As you noted, they recieve little to no medical traning, and no pre-hospital care is given. This is usually what will respond if it is reported that a Thai person is injured. There doesn't seem to be anything between these two extremes. I have noticed the local tombon here (Karon) has what looks like a proper ambulance from the outside (same one as I mentioned above), but I have yet to take a look inside (if I do I hope it's on my terms) to see what kit they have, which should give some indication if they have any training.

Unless your near areas where westers are likely to congregate, or a major city, I am afraid you will be at the hands of the dreaded "body snatchers." Supossedly they are cleaning up thier act, but as receantly as a couple years ago, The two factions, err, rescue foundations in Bankok would litearally shoot and stab each other in order to claim an injured or dead person. Often the victims (in more ways than one) would arrive to thier respective hospital or morgue relieved of thier jewelry, mobiles, money etc. To get an idea of what these guys are about, keep an eye out for a sticker on the back of many random cars and trucks which show a guy wearing a jumpsuit which reads "Rescue" cradling a woman who appears unconscious, her head dangling pricipitously from her torso, completely unsupported. They don't even know enough about basic BLS and spinal precautions to make a promotional sticker which doesn't flaunt thier ineptitude.

Another interesting fact if it's true, I don't believe there is a law requiring drivers to yield to emergency vehicles. This is certainly backed up by what I see on the roads here. Once in Bangkok, I was in a cab that blocked an ambulance's way that appeared to be responding code 3. I asked the driver to get out of his way, and was ignored (we were totally boxed in anyway.) That ambulance sat in traffic behind us for a half an hour before finally getting some shoulder and pick it's his way through. I notice the police regularly drive around at night with light bar on anyway, presumably for visibilities sake. And I have seen plenty of ambulances with lights flashing that didn't appear to be going anywhere, (code 2 and a half?) but I will reserve judgment on that one because maybe they have a reason for doing so, but it certainly doesn't help bolster their legitimacy.

Also, relevant to your observation about no one helping, Thai's are generally extremely superstitious. They are very afraid to be near to or touch a dead body due to... (don't laugh).... ghosts possessing them. (I'm not kidding)

Some interesting on-topic threads if you haven't already read:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Ambulance-Wo...lt-t160471.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Calling-Ambu...l&p=2855257

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Illegal-Hear...ai-t241146.html

There are farang voulenteer EMT and Paramedics working in Thailand:

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thirdweek/people.asp