Airport Scam Or Tourists Shoplifting At King Power Tax Free, Suvarnabhumi?

[chuang]

but from my experience, dealing with foreigners stealing clothing from my stores in Thailand, the guilty people continue to lie through their teeth and/or try to run away until the evidence is brought out.

Are they Farangs......

[caf]

The thai ambassador in london is working rather hard at the moment.

maybe not a good time for the "hang em high " brigade to post their usual comments that farang are always guilty

occasionally check what is on other sites

[BWPattaya]

Guilty shoplifting tourists being offered freedom for a price.

I have been through the airport 10 times in the last few months. I was never scammed. How many others have also passed through without problems?

I have met many prisoners who declared they were not guilty.

So, what do we have? I guess that they got caught stealing, thinking that an hour later they would be untouchable as they were flying out of the country. Then they get caught. They then have a choice, wait until the case comes to court or pay up to get away. I agree that the amounts asked is extortion though.

[PattayaParent]

Guilty shoplifting tourists being offered freedom for a price.

Agreed.

I'm sure if they were to spend 1 niught in the Bangkok Hilton they'd plead to be allowed to pay double to be let out and go home.

[Bucko]

Guilty shoplifting tourists being offered freedom for a price.

I have been through the airport 10 times in the last few months. I was never scammed. How many others have also passed through without problems?

I have met many prisoners who declared they were not guilty.

So, what do we have? I guess that they got caught stealing, thinking that an hour later they would be untouchable as they were flying out of the country. Then they get caught. They then have a choice, wait until the case comes to court or pay up to get away. I agree that the amounts asked is extortion though.

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Just at thought--not sure if anyone has mentioned this.

Guilty or not--What about the baggage that may have already been loaded on ?---would have to be unloaded again ----delays cost money I assume if the flight misses it's taxi for take off slot.

Make them as popular as a Pork Pie in a Synagogue

[caf]

MF, I have to ask, why would anyone put something they had not yet purchased into their bag? Does this not constitute shoplifting anywhere in the world?

Not in Germany.

Lots of people don't want to take the supermarket trolley, so they just use their own bag and let the checkout person check it.

I think the law requires that one leave the shop's premises before shoplifting can be considered.

Same in Thailand. Always advisable to use a basket or trolley but no offence is committed until you leave without paying.

Can't fully understand sbk's point though. In this case the police confirmed no theft had taken place. That letter was also shown to immigration when they left the country. The signed letter has been posted onthis site clearly sghowing the insignia of The Royal Thai police

Even if you accept the video as being suspicious it is taken in store. No evidence anything was taken out.

[samran]

If I had done nothing wrong, I would not pay a cent. I dont think I will be kept long time.

??? you never been stopped for "using the wrong lane" ?

yes, and never paid a baht.

If you are being stopped for something you genuinely didn't do, dare them to write a fine. They never do. And off you go.

[Maizefarmer]

.... which makes me wonder how many members have actually been through the new airport - have you seen how parts of the new airport retail shopping area is laid out?

You can in parts of the new airport walk from one shops' retail area into an adjoining shops' retail space without realising you have "left" one shop for another - there are in places no barriers or defineable retail boundaries - shops are right next to each other in places with nothing but fresh air and a couple steps seperating them.

Its poor and confusing retail layout in parts, which is open to "abuse" by both shoplifters and "security personel" who want to take advantage of innocent travellers.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[zzaa09]

This is fascinating stuff. The aspect that is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's

staggering level of corruption. Malaysia has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials,

ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission

has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And

where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who are coming up with expensive schemes to line their

pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the Police Captain in charge of the airport

still in his position? Does anyone really think there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting

only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off

the hook? Is that all it takes?

Do you really except such items to be pursued and examined critically in the mainstream Thai press??

[caf]

There is an update on the Ingram bail posted today on the andrew-drummond site

Apparently the police agreed return of the bail but...............

[brahmburgers]

It is very easy for the accused to cry scam when they have to pay a seemingly extortionate amount of money for shoplifting, but they obviously prefered that option rather than going through the judicial system to clear their names.

Come on, get real. Being stuck in Thailand, with all the living expenses, for an indeterminate amount of months, in order to deal with a serious hassle. The Thai judicial system is known for its glacial pace and questionable decisions - based more on subjectivity than on objectivity.

If I had done nothing wrong, I would not pay a cent. I dont think I will be kept long time.

??? you never been stopped for "using the wrong lane" ?

yes, and never paid a baht.

If you are being stopped for something you genuinely didn't do, dare them to write a fine. They never do. And off you go.

There are times when you get stopped and there's a payment and/or threat of detention. You know you're not guilty, but you wind up paying anyway, just to avoid the promised hassle of being detained for an indeterminable time, in what may be a disgusting cell. The threats may also include higher fines and serious jail time if you (the falsely accused) don't play ball right away ....a microcosm of the Spanish Inquisition.

Add to that the language barrier and missing a plane home, and it's hard to imagine

any reasonable person sticking up for their principles in the face of an unknown series of extortion and imprisonment.

[david96]

As pointed out on a previous post once they had been detained before boarding their flight all their checked

in baggage would have to be unloaded and this would have taken time, the flight would have left late and it would have upset the airlines flight schedule.

No mention of this in the newspaper reports or by the persons detained.

[david96]

This article may explain the logic behind the Thai justice system

Asian justice traditionally tips the balance against the individual and in favour of the collective good. In Western systems it is thought better that ten criminals are acquitted than that a single innocent person is wrongly convicted. Conversely, Asian justice aims to catch and punish all ten, even if the occasional injustice results.

In all systems a person is presumed innocent until found guilty, but when exactly is that guilt determined? Traditionally the servants of the "mandarin" (or today the police) investigate and determine guilt. The criminal then cowers humbly before the mandarin who passes sentence. The main purpose of this brief "hearing" is to discover whether the criminal is truly contrite, the key factor in deciding how tough the sentence needs to be to bring him back into line. In a crime re-enactment the cooperation, remorse and self-reproach of the guilty person is also a part of this traditional process of correction and retribution. After all, the accused has already been found guilty. As the police say it was him, he knows the game and has confessed. He must now show and acknowledge publicly the hurt he has caused and hope for a lenient sentence.

Fundamentally different attitudes thus explain why Western critics often find faults in the criminal process here that Thais are quite ready to defend. If, however, Thailand is to modernise and to make the rule of law paramount, it may be necessary to reconsider the proper balance between society and the individual. Rough justice may be effective, but invariably it penalises the weak, while the rich and powerful walk free, unless of course they too tread on the wrong toes and fall from grace.

[caf]

This article may explain the logic behind the Thai justice system

Asian justice traditionally tips the balance against the individual and in favour of the collective good. In Western systems it is thought better that ten criminals are acquitted than that a single innocent person is wrongly convicted. Conversely, Asian justice aims to catch and punish all ten, even if the occasional injustice results.

In all systems a person is presumed innocent until found guilty, but when exactly is that guilt determined? Traditionally the servants of the "mandarin" (or today the police) investigate and determine guilt. The criminal then cowers humbly before the mandarin who passes sentence. The main purpose of this brief "hearing" is to discover whether the criminal is truly contrite, the key factor in deciding how tough the sentence needs to be to bring him back into line. In a crime re-enactment the cooperation, remorse and self-reproach of the guilty person is also a part of this traditional process of correction and retribution. After all, the accused has already been found guilty. As the police say it was him, he knows the game and has confessed. He must now show and acknowledge publicly the hurt he has caused and hope for a lenient sentence.

Fundamentally different attitudes thus explain why Western critics often find faults in the criminal process here that Thais are quite ready to defend. If, however, Thailand is to modernise and to make the rule of law paramount, it may be necessary to reconsider the proper balance between society and the individual. Rough justice may be effective, but invariably it penalises the weak, while the rich and powerful walk free, unless of course they too tread on the wrong toes and fall from grace.

A good article and so true.

Also important for westerners to understand how this thinking is so different from their own

Do you have a source for the whole article? I'd like to read it in full

[slapout]

If I had done nothing wrong, I would not pay a cent. I dont think I will be kept long time.

??? you never been stopped for "using the wrong lane" ?

yes, and never paid a baht.

If you are being stopped for something you genuinely didn't do, dare them to write a fine. They never do. And off you go.

We had a name for people like you and it was not so much derogatory as it insulated you had more money/time than common sense. I would not try to count the people who pay a fine, knowing that if they wanted to press the issue to the full extent of the law, they would be found not guilty. Time, social standing, work deadlines, etc do come into play and the police here and the police/ judicial systems in many countries recognize this fact. You can be held for various time frames when a policeman writes a ticket, depending on the charge and the time of day, access to a bail bondsman/lawyer, etc. The latter can be determined by phone access to the prisoner in many cases. " dare them and never do" indicates to me you have led a very sheltered life or (reference my fist sentence) or you hold a very unique position here in Thailand.

[dirtyoldsoldier]

Its a scam and its been running a long time.............

Next time you go through the airport check out how well the different shops are seperated - they are not. Its easy to pick something up and wonder from one retail area into another retail without realising it.

And the guy that turns up each time negotiate "release" ... the translator attached to the Sri Lankan embassy - odd isn't it that the police call him - and he spins the same story each time. It'll go something along the lines of, "well, this can all be deal't with if you pay over x amount..... blah blah, blah blah .....".

The moral of the story: if you pick something up off a shelf in the duty free sales area, be carefull that you do not accidentaly walk into the retail space of an adjoining retailer before you've paid for it - and don't put it in your bag while walking around.

Moral of the story, don't go to Thailand.

[brahmburgers]

This article may explain the logic behind the Thai justice system

Asian justice traditionally tips the balance against the individual and in favour of the collective good. In Western systems it is thought better that ten criminals are acquitted than that a single innocent person is wrongly convicted. Conversely, Asian justice aims to catch and punish all ten, even if the occasional injustice results.

In all systems a person is presumed innocent until found guilty, but when exactly is that guilt determined? Traditionally the servants of the "mandarin" (or today the police) investigate and determine guilt. The criminal then cowers humbly before the mandarin who passes sentence. The main purpose of this brief "hearing" is to discover whether the criminal is truly contrite, the key factor in deciding how tough the sentence needs to be to bring him back into line. In a crime re-enactment the cooperation, remorse and self-reproach of the guilty person is also a part of this traditional process of correction and retribution. After all, the accused has already been found guilty. As the police say it was him, he knows the game and has confessed. He must now show and acknowledge publicly the hurt he has caused and hope for a lenient sentence.

Fundamentally different attitudes thus explain why Western critics often find faults in the criminal process here that Thais are quite ready to defend. If, however, Thailand is to modernise and to make the rule of law paramount, it may be necessary to reconsider the proper balance between society and the individual. Rough justice may be effective, but invariably it penalises the weak, while the rich and powerful walk free, unless of course they too tread on the wrong toes and fall from grace.

It must be a particular drag for people having to re-enact a crime if they were innocent. Imagine there was a person who was found with his throat slashed from right to left. The innocent who re-enacts the crime is right handed and moves his imaginary knife from left to right. Would the police catch the incongruity, or would they all stand around in their usual self-satisfied grins, knowing that all is going according to their plan.

To take it a step further, it would be rare that an Asian detective would notice such a discrepancy, as they have a reputation for doing shoddy work or, in that case of the two women who mysteriously died on Ko Pi Pi, doing no work at all.

Every Thai inspector/investigator who wants to be taken seriously in his field should either go to Europe or America to study the craft, or Thai law enforcement agencies should make valiant efforts to bring experts over here to teach detectives how to do an effective job.

[spongeman]

Some good posts there.

I have seen the video and I have definitely made up my mind.

Those two tourists should not go back to BKK.

[spidermike007]

The real moral of the story is, that if the police get an intermediary involved, and take you to a hotel room

instead of the slammer, they are admitting guilt. That alone is proof of the scam. They are obviously too

afraid to take these supposed "Thieves" to the police station. So, they get "Tony" involved. Nice scam.

That is all it is. I am not saying there are not real thieves from time to time, but let us not be fooled by

one video of real thieves. King Power is involved, and the guys at the top are purchasing new homes and

yachts with the cash.

[sanook2me]

I normally have a browse around the shops in the airport but now i will not cross that line. I personally think the 2 brits were guilty but the other guy with the cigars on the video that seems such an easy mistake.

Last time through this airport i purchased some baccy and they gave me the wrong reciept with the passport/name etc of the shopper in front of me who had purchased something different.

Luckily this didn't cause a problem for me but it could well have..so KP have lost my custom i'm sorry to say.

I usually ignore most of the BS flying around on this forum about scams etc but this is one that i have taken notice of and will not be shopping at KP again.

It cannot be good for business.

[stander]

I have no doubt that they are guilty shoplifting tourists, who were given an opportunity to avoid the hassle, so yes guilty and yes it is a scam

[caf]

I have no doubt that they are guilty shoplifting tourists, who were given an opportunity to avoid the hassle, so yes guilty and yes it is a scam

So why are the police agreed to "refund" the money.

[stkyricesf]

I've been monitoring all the responses, and find most of the bad mouthing is coming from the newbee's who seem to

get caught up in the bad mouthing of thai's people. What I don't understand is some of the old timers who have been

in or been around thai people for long time and yes knew corruption happens, but as a whole should know better that as a

whole thai people are the most wonderful people in the world. Generalizing is just not right. Come on, speak intellegently,

not emotionally. I think some people are protesting too much.

[NCFC]

DUTY-FREE 'THEFT'

King Power concerned over damage to reputation

By The Nation

Published on July 22, 2009

Will ask embassy what action it is taking on UK pair

King Power International plans to submit a request to the British Embassy asking what action it plans to take regarding a disgruntled UK couple.

Deputy chairman Chulchit Bunyaketu said the group last Wednesday asked the embassy to explain the facts to the British press following a theft in Suvarnabhumi Airport's duty-free area, which is under King Power's management.

Perhaps the British Embassy should give KP the address of a good lawyer.

[NCFC]

Smoke and mirrors again they are not addressing the Danish tourist situation. So they pick the British couple since they think they might be able to do something with that. Maybe they could if we were only talking about that incident Bit, that is not the situation. Now isn't the time to worry about your reputation it was before all this happened.

I think they forget just how small the internet made the world. What went unnoticed not that long ago, becomes a worldwide mention in a matter of hours. If hey are really serious about this maybe they should be talking to people who can do something about it. What do they think the Brittish Embassy can about their Country men complaining of unfair treatment by Government official's here. Not much it's really democracy.

They do more harm then they realize, but they do it to themselves. In a recent report from the nation Thai; think it is OK to have a corrupt government. Well this is the cost of that attitude and there i nothing they can do about it. I doubt either of these couples care less about being black balled here after the treatment they received. Thailand was just tried convicted and the sentence executed in the world court of the information highway. No one fault but their own.

Now it will take thousands of wonderful advertisement for people tio forge this. Me I never will, I won't shop there under any circumstances.

DUTY-FREE 'THEFT'

King Power concerned over damage to reputation

By The Nation

Published on July 22, 2009

Will ask embassy what action it is taking on UK pair

King Power International plans to submit a request to the British Embassy asking what action it plans to take regarding a disgruntled UK couple.

Deputy chairman Chulchit Bunyaketu said the group last Wednesday asked the embassy to explain the facts to the British press following a theft in Suvarnabhumi Airport's duty-free area, which is under King Power's management.

A British couple was charged with stealing a wallet. They have since complained to the UK media they had to pay Bt200,000 extra on top of Bt200,000 bail to have the charges dropped and urged British tourists not to patronise King Power duty-free shops.

Chulchit told a press conference yesterday that the case had caused damage to both King Power and Thai investigators.

He insisted King Power's closed-circuit TV clearly showed the couple at the scene and said the footage could be viewed on King Power's website. Regarding their complaints about being cheated out of extra money, he said this happened the world over whenever people sought help from the wrong channels. False reports will tarnish Thailand's image.

He said the company's duty-free shops had experienced a few cases of shoplifting each month this year.

At a Cabinet meeting yesterday, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva reportedly expressed concern over a BBC report on this most recent case.

Airports of Thailand president Serirat Prasutanond supported King Power's assertion that the couple did steal an item but said their bribery complaint was outside of AOT's responsibility.

Regarding remarks by the prime minister about reports of lost or damaged luggage, Serirat said AOT's responsibility was limited to the check-in and loading process inside the terminal. Airlines load the bags onto the planes themselves, and that is where the losses and damage occur. Therefore, airlines must be held responsible for that, not AOT.

Meanwhile, King Power is suffering a decline in sales volume, due to the domestic political turbulence and type-A (H1N1) influenza. This year's sales are down 30-40 per cent so far.

"sought help" !!! they were arrested

Why does AOT allow unauthorised people, with identification badges, to be at the airport. It IS within their area of responsibility to stop this

It is about time to put the British Embassy on the spot.

They refuse to help in the first place.

Why didn't they send a lawyer that the embassy trust. Instead they sent an ex-colony guy who I am not sure if he has a work permit to perform translation in this Thailand.

There is a big question that many of us has forgotten to ask. Why a Sri Lanker guy involved in translating Thai <--> English? There are 65 million Thai in Thailand, and none of them speak English? Something smell here.

Say the English police need a Thai <--> English translator. Would they call up the Sri Lanker embassy for help? Just a thought.

Dick, the Sri Lankan does not work for the British Embassy. He is a freelancer called on by the Thai cops at the airport who are doing a little bit of moonlighting in shaking down some of the petty thieves that pass through the airport.

Tony the Tiger's role is to keep the police's involvement at arm's length in case the proverbial hits the fan - as it's done here.

For the light-fingered British couple they obviously thought it was a price worth paying, given that they knew they'd been caught out. seven thousand quid or the prospect of a few years in a Thai slammer, which one would you prefer?

[mike_rad]

King Power is expensive more so then outside the airport proper and why anyone would even consider shopping there is beyond me.

I haven't seen the excellent Bombay Sapphire Gin for sale anywhere in Thailand except the duty free at the airport. That's one reason to use them.

[Rinrada]

King Power is expensive more so then outside the airport proper and why anyone would even consider shopping there is beyond me.

I haven't seen the excellent Bombay Sapphire Gin for sale anywhere in Thailand except the duty free at the airport. That's one reason to use them.

They still serve it up in the TG Lounge and with the usual glass of ice,couple of wedges of Lime all tempted with Shhhhwwshhhhch Tonic makes a wonderfull departure occasion raison D'tre before leaving LOS.

Unfortunately I dont have my Goldi Car any more...(converted to Eva -Singa -Etti..)so have to lurk around the not very conviv Gin Joints at Suwanna pre departure time ...think I saw it in the Black C cafe but not sure.

Anyway should you decide to try for the duty Free it might be a good idea to strip off completely naked ....no skimpies...sox etc and enter the place with your Money in one hand and passport in other held high above yer heid and shout (make sure you are noticed) Corr Nung Bombay Saffire Gin Koo-at Krap and dont try to conceal anything anywhere about your person.

With a bit of luck you should get your bottle and make a safe getta way with it assuming they dont remove it before you get on the plane........otherwise....

[loser1]

King Power is expensive more so then outside the airport proper and why anyone would even consider shopping there is beyond me.

I haven't seen the excellent Bombay Sapphire Gin for sale anywhere in Thailand except the duty free at the airport. That's one reason to use them.

They still serve it up in the TG Lounge and with the usual glass of ice,couple of wedges of Lime all tempted with Shhhhwwshhhhch Tonic makes a wonderfull departure occasion raison D'tre before leaving LOS.

Bit off topic but, I've never heard that phrase used in depating drink situation before. I always thought it to mean ' reason to be '.

raison d'être - essential purpose

I'd love some input from some french speakers as i'm trying to learn the language, thanks.

Edited August 9, 2009 by loser1

[Rinrada]

The noun has 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: reason for being..

Meaning #2: the purpose that justifies a thing's existence....

D"acord et a votre sante

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[BusyB]

From the numbers on the poll it looks like most of us agree. Shoplifting happens everywhere at every shop. In western cultures they either turn the perp over to the police or they give them a stern talking to and let them go. In Asian cultures there can often be a reversal where the store decides to take matters into their own hands to gain a profit. None of us know the real story because we weren't there. Who knows, maybe a few shop owners DO scam tourists when sales are down. I believe the rent for the stalls is probably excessively high and the owners need a profit to stay in business. One thing IS for certain though, shopping in so called "duty free" shops is mostly a scam. The savings are miniscule and most often the same item could be purchased cheaper at home when it comes on sale.

you also lose all consumer rights etc that you get in a western country for pretty much the same price 

meaning durables and electronics etc

Edited August 9, 2009 by BusyB