Airport Scam Spreads To Skytrain

[barcelonatio]

How did Thailand go from being the coolest country on the planet to one that totally sucks out load? I used to love Thailand so much that I was planning to live there.... hence my Thaivisa interest. But now with the mutliple scams, redshirt/yellowshirt gonads, shootouts in Phuket, riots in Pattaya, airport closure trauma, bribes everyplace....... all I can say now is...ICK. It's too bad for a country to degenerate into shittyhood so fast. Is it just me or is Thailand now a train wreck to be avoided?

[Groongthep]

Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.

I have to agree with SoftWater here. I've been taking the Skytrain regularly since it was built and have always found the securtity guards to be polite, professional and helpful, nothing like the local police. I have no proof that Mr. Georgesen is stretching the truth but it certainly seems out of character from what I have seen of these security guards in the past.

Me too. This is a beat up or just complete Bullsh$%T. Been taking the BTS since it opened and can't imagine any of those guards having the nerve to try this on. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of scams going on here in Thailand but this ain't one of them.

What gets me is that we are now on the 7th page of this thread and there are still some who can't get it through their thick skulls that the OP was talking about the security guards on the Skytrain platforms NOT the police. Everyone who has been in Bangkok for any lenghth of time (I've been here over 20 years) knows of the 2000 baht cigarette butt and litter entrapment scam. That is not the subject of this thread though. This Danish guy says he was scammed for throwing a cigarette butt inside the turnstile area of the Skytrain. I don't believe it. As someone who has been riding the Skytrain regularly ever since it was built I find it very hard to believe, I see these guards every day and have never seen them act in an unprofessional manner (unlike the police).

Even if someone was smoking inside the turnstile area they deserved to be fined whether they threw down the butt or not. It is clearly marked that smoking if forbidden in these areas. I stand by my belief that Mr Georgesen either mistook the walkway from the

Skytain station to one of the shopping centers for the Skytrain platform itself and was scammed by the BIB or he was making up a load of BS because he is frustrated that he got caught up in this hoax and is now blaming it on the Skytrain personell because he knows he stands a better chance of getting some compensation out of those guys than he would from the cops.

Unfornuately, we have some self proclaimed experts who will quickly paint all the Thais wearing uniforms with the same brush then quickly point fingers and call anyone who points out their bigotry as being an "appologist". I do not appologise for the corrupt cops. I will stand up for the polite and professional security guards hired by BTS though. They deserve it.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Groongthep

[hansnl]

"I have no backbone"

This is precisely the crux of the issue and just what a lot of TV posters recommend. When faced with such a situation be nice, cooperate, or things could get a lot worse. The truth is these issues are more likely to occur with people who are seen- and act- like soft targets. Thai people know who they are, and can spot them with ease.

There is a saying among those who teach personal security for a living which is "never go to location number two." In any situation like this, you should do all that you can to appear to be a hard target and to look like the last thing you will do is go to the basement/hotel near the airport/car/van etc.

The same goes for tourists who are regularly short-changed. Grow some intestinal fortitude. Don't get violent but take an agressive stance and be firm but polite. Make statements like "I will not go with you" and "You have no authority to detain me". The reason that these things happen so often is that tourists here, by and large, are cowards. Thais know this and they prey on it.

When a taxi driver suddenly charges you double what do you do? I walk away. He looks awfully stupid then. We have people here on this board that say "Oh, just pay it. It isn't worth the hassle." That is ridiculous advice, and preaching this sermon is creating more and more victims in Thailand with every passing day. Stand up for yourselves.

I wish you good luck in your fortitude.

You will probably need it very soon.

[andyww]

The Police version of this scam happened to me. Not recently though, it was 5 years ago.

I was walking aling Silom Rd and a policeman suddenly appeared and accused me of dropping a cigarette end. I told him that was ridiculous and that I dont even smoke. I turned out all my pockets in front of him to show no cigarettes, lighter, and, also not much money...

I continued to walk and saw that he was following me.

At that point I got on the phone to my wife who is Thai, and who I had left in a nearby shopping centre (where else!!). I walked in her direction and the cop continued to follow speaking loudly but didnt seem to want to make any effort to restrain me. When my wife appeared she gave the cop a good "talking-to" and showed her ID card, which bears her family name which is sufficiently well-known for the cop to recognise as being people who might be better off not being scammed.

At that point my wife demanded that the matter not be left to rest and that we should go to the nearest police station with the copper and report the whole event, and in the meantime she would phone her father to meet us and get the book thrown at the copper.

In the end I persuaded her to leave the matter and just let the copper go and find someone else to try....

I recounted this at the time on a couple of forums and at that time I got pretty much the same reaction as this story, most people posting didnt believe me.

The alleged perpetrators being security guards does place a different slant on this though, not sure what to think on this one...

Edited July 30, 2009 by andyww

[cmrichsw]

He tried to get called the tourist police, but was not allowed by station staff. Instead, he negotiated 'fine' down to 2000 baht (about 300 dollars)

They demanded money. The requirement was for 10,000 baht (about 1,500 dollars).

PLEASE LEARN THE EXCHANGE RATES BEFORE YOU POST

[Priceless]

He tried to get called the tourist police, but was not allowed by station staff. Instead, he negotiated 'fine' down to 2000 baht (about 300 dollars)

They demanded money. The requirement was for 10,000 baht (about 1,500 dollars).

PLEASE LEARN THE EXCHANGE RATES BEFORE YOU POST

As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, your quote is from a Google translation from Danish into English. The error is that it should not read "dollars" (USD) but "kroner" (DKK). Then the exchange rate would be correct. The original Danish article says "kroner", so you should direct your anger at Google. (Maybe you can sue them )

BTW, there's no need to shout

/ Priceless

[skettios]

I set up our Asia Head Office in Bangkok last year, employing local people and bringing in FDI .... but its beginning to look like this is not the ideal location, especially after the airport issues (blockade and King Power scam) and now the Sky Train. If this type of thing ever happened to my family or my local team - I'd shift the head office to another country. Like most businesses - we need stability, safety and good transport links .... and if we don't get all three. we'll move.

Whatever you say.... you set up a business without doing any research about the country? Why do I get the feeling that you don't even have a business. Everyone heard about the coup in 2006, the airport blockade, and Black Songkran. It was in the news everywhere in the whole world.

The guy in this article is obviously lying. The BTS has cameras everywhere, and the company is foreign run. If they were running a scam, it would be very easy to find out. I'm sure the BTS would rather hang them out to dry than risk their reputation.

[dippytart]

Yawn...can I summarise? (I'm new here, is this allowed?)

1. There seems to be a lot of people pointing out that scams are commonplace in Thailand.

2. There's some quite reasonable arguments that claim a scam inside the skytrain is highly unlikely.

3. There's not a single other person presenting a tale of being scammed inside the skytrain. And of course, let's not forget

4. There's a few people in here working the crowd...

My verdict: the OP story is inaccurate at best, downright false at worst.

Is there anything more interesting to talk about?

[remil]

I'm not trying to pump my chest up here....BUT.....are we talking about the same scrawney pidgeon chested guards that I always see at the sky train platform?

I can just see it now:

THEM: "Your coming with us"

Me: " Is that right? "

Come on, get real

Hahah totally agree those guys are a joke. Ive been here as a teen and went to school here. We always used to mess with those guys. He could of just walked away and the guy would have done nothing but yell.

Although this is still bad for tourism and its a prick move

[maluko]

This guy should be fined for wearing sandals and socks.

so true !!!

thanks for this statement, it helps us to relax a little bit...

[liloldspirut]

Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.

Why he should do that??

Are you familiar with Western tabloid press? People make up all sorts of rubbish just to get their "15 minutes of fame" (= attention) or to get paid for their story.

Thailand is an easy-mark right now - what's the betting the next story will be someone claiming the flight crew of a Thai Air plane forced someone into a toilet at 30,000 feet and relieved them of 10,000 baht for not wearing their seat belt....

Do not give them any more ideas!

My grandfather (Born 1889-D.1975) would not belive how the light bulb worked, but once I brought to his attention that it did not matter how it worked but that it did and it EXISTED. That made sense to him.

[robint]

This cigarette scam has been around for a very long time - 5+ years.

The place i know of is the pavement area in front of the Queens park, which is next to the Emporium shopping mall on sukhumvit.

Apparently this pavement belongs to the park and comes under the jurisdiction of the Special Park Police. There is a tiny insignificant notice near the guard box warning of a 2000B fine for dropping cigarrette litter. So the BiB regulaRLY SHAKE DOWN HAPLESS TOURISTS FOR 2000b

They never bothered me all the time i was there because i look like a derelict (good disguise), but i know of several aCQUAINTANCES WHO HAVE BEEN CAUGHT

sorry my keyboards naughty today.

[Astropuppy]

I set up our Asia Head Office in Bangkok last year, employing local people and bringing in FDI .... but its beginning to look like this is not the ideal location, especially after the airport issues (blockade and King Power scam) and now the Sky Train. If this type of thing ever happened to my family or my local team - I'd shift the head office to another country. Like most businesses - we need stability, safety and good transport links .... and if we don't get all three. we'll move.

If it was the lower cost you prefered when choosing BKK for a Head Office, then you got what you pay for. Singapore is more expensive, grant it, but it is still the center of A-P business for a reason.

That being said: I have never been hassled while in Thailand. I had a fellow try to pick my wallet one day. All he found was an empty hip pocket and I got a one-stroke massage for free. My point is there are some simple things we can do to limit ill-effects.

If your employees/family stay away from bad people in Thailand and don't give the Police a reason to talk to them, then they will be fine. If there is a case like the cigarette-thing, then stand your ground and a "compassionate" officer will eventually come forward and let you go. Keep saying "no" and keep asking for Supervisors until you find the one which has the "compassion".

I believe the Dane story because the rent-a-cops were so aggressive. This is done so they can get their "business" completed quickly: time is their enemy.

[Nacho]

So, this guy is a liar and Thai authorities don't lie?. Yeah right!

What ''lie' and what 'Thai authorities' are you talking about? Skytrain 'guards' are not 'Thai authorities', and as far as I can tell from the OP, nobody has asked BTS to comment on this case, so what 'lie' are you referring to? The whole thing is totally uncorrobarated - just one guy back in the safety of Denmark telling a story and getting his name in the paper. Believe it if you want - but if you use the BTS regularly at Siam Square you'll realise how unlikely this is. For one thing, the platform guards are usually on their own, they don't go around in big gangs; secondly, BTS staff are, on the whole, pretty polite and professional. Thirdly, how do you know this guy wasn't being a drunken arsehol_e, got taken to the guard room, then made up this little story instead? Fourthly, since the guards are not police, the only authority they have is to remove him from the station. Fifthly, why didn't he go and report it as soon as he was out of the guardroom to, say, the station manager, the ticket office, a cop on the street, his embassy, oh come on, if this was real..what would you do?

Like I said, I aint buying it. I can't remember what there is in the way of CCTV at Siam, but that's the only way I'd believe a tale like this.

I don't know if I was a tourist with all the bad press that has been happing in Thailand at the moment I don't know if I would persue it any further out of fear. What would you do if this happend to you in say Columbia or Nigeria?

Whether this is true or not Thailand needs to get rid of the corruption and scams and clean up its immage, especially with the world economy at what it is, or else more stories like this are going to be published more and more until Thailands tourist industry becomes not existant.

[brahmburgers]

Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.

I have to agree with SoftWater here. I've been taking the Skytrain regularly since it was built and have always found the securtity guards to be polite, professional and helpful, nothing like the local police. I have no proof that Mr. Georgesen is stretching the truth but it certainly seems out of character from what I have seen of these security guards in the past.

you're both full of it.

All this crap going on right now aimed at Tourists and Tourism could be part of a plot to discredit the current government in prepartion for the return of Mr. T

If the scams are comin thick and fast with a relatively conservative government in power,

imagine what will happen if whacko-thacko gets back in!!

RUN TO THE HILLS!!

aaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm already in the hills, ha ha. I been here over 10 years and will probably get bio-degraded in some crevice here (northernmost Thailand) when my time comes. I fully believe such scams can and are happening on a daily basis - been hearing about them for years, and I wouldn't put anything as being too low for a Thai authority to do to get extra baht. Most farang are easy targets because they get so readily spooked by authorities hauling them off to a room (unlawful detainment), along with stern threats of jail and such.

Years ago, I had some plainclothes Thai cops threaten me, and try to take me in to a back room of a police station. I tangibly resisted and engaged in a shouting match with them right in the cop station. They backed down. I was lucky, plus my belligerence paid off for once. (Btw I don't drink alc).

I hung briefly with a farang who had a biz-card sized card that indicated some connection to the Royal family. We made a wrong turn at an intersection. A cop pulled us over. The farang dangled the card in the cops face. The cop lit up with a big grin and waved us on our way.

I say every farang should get a copy of such a card - a sort of 'get out of jail free' card. If anyone reading this knows what the card says, let us know. My guess is it has the Royal seal on it, and some scribble of a signature. In this 'land of everything fake', it wouldn't be hard to get copies made.

Edited July 31, 2009 by brahmburgers

[spongeman]

And they wonder why tourism has dropped so much in Thailand.

Taxis / Duty Free / Littering scams - was it really this bad when I lived there in the 1990's ? I'm not so sure it was. I can turn on the BBC any day and you hear these stories. All these people can't be liars.

They can keep screwing whats left but whats left is getting smaller.

Anybody in charge ?

[tuftymorgan]

Quote by cmrishsw

He tried to get called the tourist police, but was not allowed by station staff. Instead, he negotiated 'fine' down to 2000 baht (about 300 dollars)

They demanded money. The requirement was for 10,000 baht (about 1,500 dollars).

PLEASE LEARN THE EXCHANGE RATES BEFORE YOU POST"

Hey buddy wherever u live it's not Thailand @ 33 baht for 1 dollar, 2000B is 60 dollars, you must be very sad to shout your incorrect point.

As Groonthep recently pointed out there are no BiB on the skytrain, all the staff are exceedingly polite, well trained and very strict about smoking, eating and drinking on the Skytrain. Whoever this Dane is it was probably on the walkway, outside the turnstiles and somnamna him.There are big signs clearly prohibiting smoking on the walkways.

As far as all these people jumping on the bashing Thai people threads, you are the bigots and if you choose not to come to Thailand, all the better for us who enjoy and love the country, keep your small mindedness in your own countries.Remember in your countries, shoplifting comes with a criminal record and possibly jailtime.

I personally have been here for 20 years and ride a motorcycle daily across Bangkok and I am frequently spot checked by the BiB, I have never had a single problem, I speak politely in Thai, albeit not fluently, show my driving licence and usually have a little chat about football and am sent on my way. All in all the MRT, the BTS and the Traffic police are courteous and friendly.

The majority of people who have been scammed or think they have been scammed probably checked their common sense in with their luggage, when they boarded the plane to Thailand. We live here because we enjoy and understand it.

No 2 week or 3 month tourist could ever understand about the abject poverty regular Thai people suffer on a daily basis, so please keep your bad attitudes at home. Thank you.

[andyww]

Taxis / Duty Free / Littering scams - was it really this bad when I lived there in the 1990's ? I'm not so sure it was. I can turn on the BBC any day and you hear these stories. All these people can't be liars.

The littering scam was an epidemic in the 1990s but hardly ever gets heard about these days.

What duty free scam is this? The "victims" of this so-called scam admitted to reporters that they were not disputing that they had removed items from the store without paying for them. The "scam" was that the police took them to the cleaners after they were arrested. No change there... it has never been a good idea for a Farang to commit any kind of crime in Thailand.

What taxi scam? Not using a meter? If you were in Thailand in the 90s you will remember that meters didnt exist back then. These days you can simply get out of the taxi if the meter is not switched on.

I am interested to know what other so-called scams in Thailand are reported by the BBC on a daily basis as I sure cant find any reference to any. What is the point of posting nonsense like this?

The most depressing thing about the event this thread is about is that the guy paid up rather than simply walk away. Bangkok is a lawless urban jungle but thankfully not a violent one (unlike many cities in the West) and if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Anyone with any degree of street-sense will not be a victim. People who expect their existence to be protected by the mature law enforcement infrastructure that exists in Western countries best stay away and leave it to those with more nous.

Edited July 31, 2009 by andyww

[Finlaco]

"I had an incident 6 years ago at Siam Discovery where a Thai female walked into me... and I kicked her"

You are one classy guy.

nice editing --- u good get a job with Fox News

[StatlerandWaldorf]

At National Stadium, outside on the overhead walks near the Tokyo department store entrance, police regularly set up a cigarette sting there. It is the police, it is not inside the BTS turnstyles. On the steps and the cross overs above Sukhumvit, there is no signage until you get to the central platform where no smoking is clearly posted, but no ashtrays available. Since I knew this scam, my friend and I stopped, put out the cigarettes and pocketed them. We were stopped in the same manner described by this article and 10,000 baht fine each for littering. When we produced the cigarette butts, there were grins all around and we were released.

From my experience, this story is entirely plausible. And thanks Thai Visa, it was here that I learned about this scam and how to protect myself.

I also think this story is plausible. Just the other day I was in lotus and they would not let me leave with my case of Leo unless I paid a B445 bribe to the cashier

Just where will it all end?

[StatlerandWaldorf]

Is the box a cash register location for traffic violators or tourist information bay.?

Neither. The writing on the top of the kiosk says "Place to Pay the Fine for Littering". Aside from the fact that the kiosk should have an English langauge sign so that tourists would get the idea, I don't see how this is a scam.

It's illegal in most Western counries to drop litter, including the UK. The post above is misleading. The street where all the rubbish is not the same as the street where the kiosk is. Did it occur that one benefit of this practice is to keep the area looking respectable for other tourists? Is there any litter in the photos where the tourists are being fined?

No. It looks like apretty nice place to spend your holiday.

So the policy works.

As I say to my Thai wife when she is throwing rubbish out of the car window (which I DO NOT do, by the way) "keep Britain tidy..... throw your rubbish in Thailand"

[StatlerandWaldorf]

I think if I was approached by one of those scrawny little guards, and asked to follow them on a trumped up charge, I would just

walk out of the station. I do not think they could force me to go with them. But, the real issue is this:

Why is Thailand so disinterested in addressing it's staggering level of corruption? If this hooligan, who passes himself off as a

"security guard" was fired, heavily fined (100,00 baht and up), arrested, tried, convicted, and sent to the slammer for five years

on charges of extortion, do you think that news would not get around? The way Thais like to gossip. All of the country would hear

within 24 hours. People would start feeling like the days on immunity against corruption charges are over. Before you say that is not

possible here, take into account that Malaysia has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials,

ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission

has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And

where is Thailand in all of this? Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who are coming up with expensive schemes to line their

pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the Police Captain in charge of the airport

still in his position? Does anyone really think there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting

only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off

the hook? Is that all it takes? If Thailand wants to rid itself of what surely has to be it's single largest impediment to success, than it

has to start taking corruption seriously, and it has to start punishing the perpetrators heavily.

Agree whole heartedly with what you are saying. Didn't Thailand have an anti corruption commission? and if I remember rightly most of them were found to be 'on the take'. In which case we have to ask ourselves, can you use criminals to police the criminals. The lunatics are running the asylum!

[harleyclarkey]

Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.

I have to agree with SoftWater here. I've been taking the Skytrain regularly since it was built and have always found the securtity guards to be polite, professional and helpful, nothing like the local police. I have no proof that Mr. Georgesen is stretching the truth but it certainly seems out of character from what I have seen of these security guards in the past.

So too are 99% of the people that work in King Power at Swampy....it's the dirty 1% scum that we all have to watch out for. I have no doubt at all this can happen. What has thjis guy (a medical professional) possibly got to gain by stretching the truth. All too often here you have the cry..."can't/doidn't happen" "has to be a troll". What the he*k...this is corrupt Thailand. It DOES happen everywhere and every day.

Odd isn't it? This happens right beside Swampy.

This also is the airport where my bags, left into the Chubb controlled left luggage depot, were rifled and robbed. T

[Tokay]

I'm sorry, but if I didn't do something and a handful of bone skinny Thai guys, police or not, tried to take me ANYWHERE, they would have to take my by force. I've been here too long to fall for some shit like that.

Fine me on the spot, sure, get me, scam me. Whatever. Take me somewhere... not a chance in hel_l.

[marsteele]

At National Stadium, outside on the overhead walks near the Tokyo department store entrance, police regularly set up a cigarette sting there. It is the police, it is not inside the BTS turnstyles. On the steps and the cross overs above Sukhumvit, there is no signage until you get to the central platform where no smoking is clearly posted, but no ashtrays available. Since I knew this scam, my friend and I stopped, put out the cigarettes and pocketed them. We were stopped in the same manner described by this article and 10,000 baht fine each for littering. When we produced the cigarette butts, there were grins all around and we were released.

From my experience, this story is entirely plausible. And thanks Thai Visa, it was here that I learned about this scam and how to protect myself.

I also think this story is plausible. Just the other day I was in lotus and they would not let me leave with my case of Leo unless I paid a B445 bribe to the cashier

Just where will it all end?

Wow really this has happened to me also. It is not just Tesco/lotus but Carrefour are running the same scam.

[seri thai]

I set up our Asia Head Office in Bangkok last year, employing local people and bringing in FDI .... but its beginning to look like this is not the ideal location, especially after the airport issues (blockade and King Power scam) and now the Sky Train. If this type of thing ever happened to my family or my local team - I'd shift the head office to another country. Like most businesses - we need stability, safety and good transport links .... and if we don't get all three. we'll move.

If you need safety, I suggest wearing crash helmets on motorcycles is a start?

[dippytart]

Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.

I have to agree with SoftWater here. I've been taking the Skytrain regularly since it was built and have always found the securtity guards to be polite, professional and helpful, nothing like the local police. I have no proof that Mr. Georgesen is stretching the truth but it certainly seems out of character from what I have seen of these security guards in the past.

you're both full of it.

I'm already in the hills, ha ha. I been here over 10 years and will probably get bio-degraded in some crevice here (northernmost Thailand) when my time comes. I fully believe such scams can and are happening on a daily basis - been hearing about them for years, and I wouldn't put anything as being too low for a Thai authority to do to get extra baht. Most farang are easy targets because they get so readily spooked by authorities hauling them off to a room (unlawful detainment), along with stern threats of jail and such.

Oh ho ho, i'm going to have a hernia. I had a brother in law, lived in the north-east of England, Consett in Co.Durham, all his life, but still (thought he) knew everything that was going on in the big smog down south on account of what he read in the Telegraph. No end of amusement he was, with his Yokel local opinions, so out of touch!

[moe666]

Smokers should be fined big time,even when they donot litter, because you know some were they have dropped a butt or two.

But this thread has gotten me so paranoid about scams in Thailand I think I will postpone my next trip until they are all cleaned up.

[whatchamacallit]

Smokers should be fined big time,even when they donot litter, because you know some were they have dropped a butt or two.

But this thread has gotten me so paranoid about scams in Thailand I think I will postpone my next trip until they are all cleaned up.

Good then you'll be staying wherever you are - indefinitely!!!!

[toybits]

I was standing behind the yellow line at Asoke station when the security guard on the opposite platform began tooting his whistle. At first, i ignored the guard but then it became apparent that he was trying to get my attention. He was telling me to step back.

The security guard on my side of the platform was around 100 meters away buy he had a clear view of me and he figured I was toeing the line and did not need to be warned or admonished for going over This Sacred Yellow Line.

What got my goat was the other security guard acting really nasty and was puffing up his chest. I'm a big man see, I got a whistle seeee. Should have giving him my middle finger.

One mistake in the article is stating THB 10,000 equaling $1500....should read around $ 280......if THB 10,000 equaled $1500, they certainly wouldnt have any tourists or farangs living in Thailand...