Is Multi-culturism Good For A Country?

[IanForbes]

Is multi-culturism good for a country and can it actually work? I don't see too much of it in Thailand because most of the country is Buddhist, and other cultures seem to be scattered in tiny groups. There are certainly lots of Europeans, Aussies and North Americans who take Thai national spouses, but they just sort of blend in wherever they locate. About the only hotspot in Thailand is in the very southern end of the penninsula with the turmoil between the Islamic groups and either Christians or Thai Buddhists.

I know in Canada we are supposed to be a multi-culture country with an English speaking bias, but what I see more of is little groups all keeping separate from each other. My sister in London tells me it's the same in England. Depending on the location I can be a foreigner in my own country. I see bigotry and bias everywhere, but it's more the "New Canadiens" that perpetrate it. Many French speaking Canadians REALLY don't like the English speaking Canadians and that goes back to the 1700s, The Japanese Canadians don't integrate with the Chinese Canadians, Muslims and people from India won't integrate with any other group no matter how long they stay in Canada or how many generations pass, and First Nations people keep entirely to themselves. It's quite noticeable in Islamic communities within our cities as well.

It reminds me of that old Chad Mitchel Trio song

The whole world is festering with unhappy souls

The French hate the Germans, and the Germans hate the Poles.

Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch

And I don't like anybody very much...

[MonsieurHulot]

The French hate the Germans

The war is over, you know.

The Germans and the French are now close partners. We have built the EU together. Those French people who hated them are all dead now.

Personally, I've got dozens of German friends, in France, in Germany (where I used to work) and in Thailand.

Wake up, Ian.

Reason for edit: I just realized these are just words taken from a CMT song. Anyway, wake up and throw away the CD. Regarding the French and the Germans, it's not true anymore.

It looks like you're having a bad day. Well, smoke some salmon and you'll see la vie en rose.

Edited July 29, 2009 by MonsieurHulot

[CrossBones]

I am free of all prejudice - I hate everyone equally

[IanForbes]

I actually do believe that Europeans integrate better than other cultures. Most of the second world war stuff has been forgotten... other than as a historical note. That Chad Mitchel Trio song came from the 1960s. The former Yugoslavia still has its problems though. It's beyond belief how that terrible war started in a country that hosted the Olympics.

Here in BC we have a large Indo-Canadian population and it's almost unheard of to have even a second or third generation Indo-Canadian woman marry a Caucasian. There have been many cases where Indo fathers have murdered their own daughters for being with a Caucasian man. You don't see many Muslims marrying Christians either. The formerly very tolerant Dutch are having a lot of problems with millitant Muslim groups. But, second generation Chinese and Japanese often marry caucasians in Canada.

[a99az]

As they say, ''when in Rome'' I think this is the best way. When I am at home in Thailand I try to blend in as much as I can.

[StevieH]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

[Maejo Man]

Most of the second world war stuff has been forgotten... other than as a historical note.

Says who? I suppose it depends on what nationality you are, but there again, there are some people that don't have much to remember anyway

Edited July 30, 2009 by Maejo Man

[threedot]

Being both half English and half German and having spent a lot of time on the continent, I have found that people who bring up references to the war in a non-historical context are usually English and are almost certainly complete muppets.

[Ulysses G.]

There are a lot of older people who are still very bitter about Japanese behavior in WW2. People of my generation tend to think of them very differently.

[bojo]

Is multi-culturism good for a country and can it actually work?

How long is a piece of string? A hot topic with no possibility of a conclusion, but an interesting one at that.

I was going to say that it is too early to say but cross culture has been going on for Centuries.

Globalisation in recent decades has played a huge part I think in integrating cultures, however that's not really any different from what's occured historically.

As to whether it's a good thing, depends on who you ask.

I think that most people thrown together in a country, if asked whether they would like to integrate cuturally, would probably say, no. Can they live together in adjacent neighbourhoods, nearly all will say yes (except for gangbangers of course).

From a perspective of helping to understand other cultures, multi culturism is definitely a good thing and therefore in the long run, in the integrated world that we now live in overall it must be good for our country's.

regards Bojo

[Pdaz]

Multi culturalism in the UK is a faliure.. pure and simple.. It has prevented people from intergrating into their adopted home and has caused the indiginous people to loose their own culural values and history..

I've been an immigrant/migrant four times in my life.. I've maintained my own identity but have gained insight, language and valuble experience from each country I have lived in..

As a kid in the US everybody no matter what their background/religion/colour etc was encouraged to be 'American' The same in Australia.. But what has happened in the UK has turned out a generation of ethinic groups who have no attachment to the UK and children born there to 'foreign' parents haven't a clue what being British means.. Likewise British kids aren't taught about their history as the apologists have eradicated it from the cariculum and pride in their country's past is thought off as evil and racist...

If you want to see 'multiculturalism' working .. Go to Singapore.. Four races..All Singaporeans.. No apologists or positive discrimination but a lot of cultural identity, culture and pride.

[Maejo Man]

Being both half English and half German and having spent a lot of time on the continent, I have found that people who bring up references to the war in a non-historical context are usually English and are almost certainly complete muppets.

That would certainly explain your pureile attitude, and your unfortunate disposition

Affectionally yours...the muppet

[MonsieurHulot]

I believe that, in my country at least, modern multiculturalism was born with colonialism and that the intrinsic imbalance of the latter was/is not the best of foundations. This probably explains why the whole building is now shaking.

[bojo]

Multi culturalism in the UK is a faliure.. pure and simple.. It has prevented people from intergrating into their adopted home and has caused the indiginous people to loose their own culural values and history..

I wouldn't say that we've lost our history,unless school curriculums in History have changed. Our history, and a most interesting and controversial one at that, will never go away, unless an invading country burns down the national Library. However, if some ethnic groups which in some areas are a majority could have their way, we would most certainly lose our culture too. It's up to the nation to retain it's culture. It's a shame most are too busy worshipping the pound note.

Regards bojo

[PeaceBlondie]

As a USA citizen, I heard that in contrast to our 'melting pot' - where all residents were expected to forget ancestry and become white-bread, plain-vanilla Caucasians speaking Amurrikan English (not that there's anything wrong with that ). Canada, by contrast, was a jigsaw, a mosaic, a stew - where ancestry, language and culture were maintained.

Thailand? Asian; Thai; central Thai. Xenophobic. We farang accommodate to Thai culture. I think most Thais tolerate or ignore us, and luk-krung are neither pure farang nor pure Thai.

[IanForbes]

Multi culturalism in the UK is a faliure.. pure and simple.. It has prevented people from intergrating into their adopted home and has caused the indiginous people to loose their own culural values and history..

I've been an immigrant/migrant four times in my life.. I've maintained my own identity but have gained insight, language and valuble experience from each country I have lived in..

As a kid in the US everybody no matter what their background/religion/colour etc was encouraged to be 'American' The same in Australia.. But what has happened in the UK has turned out a generation of ethinic groups who have no attachment to the UK and children born there to 'foreign' parents haven't a clue what being British means.. Likewise British kids aren't taught about their history as the apologists have eradicated it from the cariculum and pride in their country's past is thought off as evil and racist...

If you want to see 'multiculturalism' working .. Go to Singapore.. Four races..All Singaporeans.. No apologists or positive discrimination but a lot of cultural identity, culture and pride.

You understood the point I was making, Pdaz. Multi-culturism SHOULD be what we strive for, but many immigrants refuse to integrate even slightly into their new home. Not only that, but they work to destroy the very country that is giving them a new home in a reasonably democratic system. I've seen many examples of it in Canada and my sister in London tells me similar stories. And, my sister is a person who works at helping foreigners, who have had terrible experiences in their own country, integrate into the UK. But, the ones who get there on a free pass work hard at destroying the country they are taking advantage of.

[clausewitz]

One of the best countries I ever lived in was japn(10 years) . It is just nicer to live - even for guests like myself- in a country where multiculturalism doesn't exist.

Funny how in the west we are brainwashed into thinking that MC is a good thing. I wonder why the man does that?

[Theyreallrubbish]

The presence of multiple cultures and/or nationalities/ethnic groups under single government has historically usually led to failure, sometimes bloody failure as Yugoslavia and Rwanda are recent examples.

The greater the homogeneity of a society the greater the amount of "social capital" within it and the higher level of trust and civic behaviour that exists. Once people start noticing that a lot of people around them are not like them they begin to withdraw from civic participation and begin to take a more selfish view of their contributions to society. To boil it down, people don't mind paying taxes or doing things to support people who are like them as they can take a "there but for the grace of God" view and naturally are more likely to trust and reward trust to people like themselves.

Its been shown that high trust societies are significantly more prosperous than low trust societies.

Although this doesn't have to be a multi-cultural cause. Witness Thailand, where significant amounts of time, money and energy are wasted trying to prevent people stealing from or cheating you, including your own staff, which is not time or money wasted to the same degree in the West.

The United States is an interesting example as previously it was very aware of this and had a very active program to support civic participation and to encourage homogeneity in a variety of cultural groups to try and overcome the disadvantages of having multiple cultural groups in the country. It helped that until recently the vast majority of Americans were of Western European descent. The pledge of allegiance in schools, the wide variety of volunteer programs and the cultural expectation that an American citizen had a responsibility to be part of an organisation that supported their community were all manifestations of a deliberate program to increase homogeneity and reduce multi-culturalism. Part of that was the patriotic propaganda that many in the rest of the world find amusing or distasteful or alarming depending on their view of America.

However, the rise of the Republican religious right has led to both parties using sub-group politics as a way to try and capture votes and the previous drive to turn everyone into an American has been abandoned. A great tragedy by short sighted politicians in my view that will have negative repercussions for many generations to come.

The UK I believe developed its multi-cultural plans from a different background in that there was no experience of recent mass immigration and it was implicitly assumed that all immigrants would automatically become British just by being there as previous waves of immigrants had, despite the fact that modern immigration is different in terms of numbers, speed and the difference to the home culture to the previous waves. So no plans or programs were put into place to increase integration. When large numbers of non-white, non-European immigrants arrived, surprise surprise they formed ghettoes which quickly reached a critical mass requiring reduced interaction with the native population. The government then retro-actively rationalised this screw up by producing propaganda that multi-culturalism (i.e. completely different groups living within the same borders and barely interacting) was a good thing, in order to cover up its failure in immigration and integration policies.

[slapout]

Multi cultures within a country has been demonstrated to be good, (elementary school teacher told me so)???? and this good, will be accepted by the young (elementary level students). I have known ex pow's of WW2, Korea, and Vietnam who would not integrate with their captures culture for anyone or any amount of money. At the same time participants of these and other conflicts seem to accept and are accepted by and large by the former enemy. The KKK and the Black Panthers would be hard pressed to set down for a night in the local bar together, but may ignore the other if they stay in their place. The whole world is or is becoming multi culture. Percentage wise Asia is probably lagging behind other countries with the possible exception of the Middle east but then I guess it would depend on the yardstick you use to measure multi culture. Indian, Malay, Chinese, Burmese, Korean Thai, etc have been living together for several centuries as have the rest of the civilized world???? This was before the Americas, Australia, etc were ever polluted by the European and/or Asians?????. When I compare my teenage years with my teenage children and their exposure, understanding, learning and acceptance of multi cultures, I have to concur with my elementary school teacher.

[fbran]

I would hope that each country can determine this question for themselves without being bullied by the US or other Western countries.

[ajarnmark]

Is multi-culturism good for a country and can it actually work? I don't see too much of it in Thailand because most of the country is Buddhist, and other cultures seem to be scattered in tiny groups. There are certainly lots of Europeans, Aussies and North Americans who take Thai national spouses, but they just sort of blend in wherever they locate. About the only hotspot in Thailand is in the very southern end of the penninsula with the turmoil between the Islamic groups and either Christians or Thai Buddhists.

I know in Canada we are supposed to be a multi-culture country with an English speaking bias, but what I see more of is little groups all keeping separate from each other. My sister in London tells me it's the same in England. Depending on the location I can be a foreigner in my own country. I see bigotry and bias everywhere, but it's more the "New Canadiens" that perpetrate it. Many French speaking Canadians REALLY don't like the English speaking Canadians and that goes back to the 1700s, The Japanese Canadians don't integrate with the Chinese Canadians, Muslims and people from India won't integrate with any other group no matter how long they stay in Canada or how many generations pass, and First Nations people keep entirely to themselves. It's quite noticeable in Islamic communities within our cities as well.

It reminds me of that old Chad Mitchel Trio song

The whole world is festering with unhappy souls

The French hate the Germans, and the Germans hate the Poles.

Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch

And I don't like anybody very much...

Since when religion = culture?

Take for example, Muslims around the world, they have different culture based on the country they live in. Thailand is truly a multi-cultural society, however, people are not completely become part of culture, due to a vast difference in living styles, such as food etc.

However, Chinese, by all means, are those who become part of Thailand very well. Indians (mostly Sikhs who migrated from the area which is now Pakistan) did not mix so well. This goes back to the religion and not to the culture.

If you look at various countries, migrants, generally, are well off and doing good. Before the so called "war of terrorism", everything was fine, however, things changed, since dubya started a useless war against the largest religion, i.e. Islam (Catholic, being the second largest). Had this war never happened, world would have been much peaceful. I know some people would defend US, but it is a pure mistake on both sides, i.e. USA and other sides. Iraq is a classic example

[wamberal]

One of the best countries I ever lived in was japn(10 years) . It is just nicer to live - even for guests like myself- in a country where multiculturalism doesn't exist.

Funny how in the west we are brainwashed into thinking that MC is a good thing. I wonder why the man does that?

Japan must be a nice place to live, if you are ethnically Japanese - certainly not very good for people of other ethnicities who cannot gain citizenship. Even some of the original inhabitants of the place, the Ainu, were second-class citizens, without full citizenship rights until very recently.

If you are brainwashed into "thinking that multi-culturalism is a good thing", maybe you should get a new brain. For me, I am happy to live in a country (Australia) where anybody at all can gain citizenship, irrespective of religion, race, or ethnicity, and all are free to follow their own traditions and customs. Who says any particular set of traditions and customs is any better, or worse, than any others - as long as nobody is hurt or disadvantaged, surely freedom and equality are the most civilising qualities in a mature society.

[Harcourt]

My Dad is a Pacific Islander, my mum, a blue-eyed blonde Aussie; Getting married in Sydney in the early 1960's must have been quite brave of them. There was not alot of mixed race marriages back in those days.....racial tensions in the US were peaking.

Then growing up in Fiji, then New Zealand, both countries being multi-cultural....I am the product of multiculturalism, therefore a champion of it.

Xenophobics will always stymie multiculturalism, and there is no swaying the xenophobics. Xenophobes, by definition, are afraid of differences and are narrow minded, thus they will never listen to reason.

Therefore, to consider whether multiculturalism is a good thing, perhaps we need to look at all the reasons that the xenophobes would cite against it.......

......

[mauGR1]

Very interesting thread,can lead to infinite discussion.to add my two cents,while multi-culturalism can be detrimental for a well-established society,is going to be useful if not necessary for the humankind in the long run.We can see it in a small scale,like in the Alps villages,where the relatives used to marry each other,and the average of "less intelligent" people was extremely high,or in a bigger scale like the USA,where multi-cultural and multi-racial exchange has created the more powerful and innovative nation in the world.Here in Thailand the "luk krueng" might experience quite a few problems,but no doubt for me, they are going to grow,with highs and lows of course,very intelligent and culturally resourceful adults.

[Harcourt]

Slapout:"...The KKK and the Black Panthers would be hard pressed to set down for a night in the local bar together, but may ignore the other if they stay in their place..."

No. Those militant groups go out of their way to persecute the other races.

[Geekfreaklover]

It would seem somewhat hypocritical to say that MC is a bad idea whilst living in, and having children in a country that is not that of my birth. So I will say it's a good thing.

[losworld]

Well after living in the US (california) for 12 years I can attest to the fact that multiculturalism appears to be a failure here. The U.S. was originally designed to be a melting pot where everyone would become "American" first and speak a common language. There are many Latinos here who simply don't want to make the effort to learn english and reside in Spanish speaking communities. They also pledge allegiance to Mexico first and the U.S. second. In fact when the Mexican national soccer team played the U.S. at the Colisseum most Latinos were cheering for the Mexican team and urine bags, bottles, etc. were thrown at the U.S. team. Rather ironic how people leave their country because it is not desirable to stay then support it instead of the country that has brought them opportunity and rights. This is true for many other minorities. Not taking a swipe at anyone just the facts.

[StevieH]

Multi culturalism in the UK is a faliure.. pure and simple.. It has prevented people from intergrating into their adopted home and has caused the indiginous people to loose their own culural values and history..

I've been an immigrant/migrant four times in my life.. I've maintained my own identity but have gained insight, language and valuble experience from each country I have lived in..

As a kid in the US everybody no matter what their background/religion/colour etc was encouraged to be 'American' The same in Australia.. But what has happened in the UK has turned out a generation of ethinic groups who have no attachment to the UK and children born there to 'foreign' parents haven't a clue what being British means.. Likewise British kids aren't taught about their history as the apologists have eradicated it from the cariculum and pride in their country's past is thought off as evil and racist...

If you want to see 'multiculturalism' working .. Go to Singapore.. Four races..All Singaporeans.. No apologists or positive discrimination but a lot of cultural identity, culture and pride.

nonsense that is. notwithstanding that england is a multicultural country by default, the english being a mongrel race of other cultures such as french, viking scandiwegian, german, irish, welsh and sundry other nationalities, multi-culturalism has led to the UK being one of the most tolerant nations on earth which offers reasonably equal opportunity to any person regardless of race, religion, gender, sexuality or anything else. which is not to mention the massive positive impacts which have been had on music, art, literature. . . .

countries only 'lose their cultural values and history' if they let themselves, otherwise that's what history books are for. cultures should evolve as time goes by. if you want culture which is stuck in a time warp, go to a museum.

[njpski]

MC is great for a country - the diversity of thought and approach can lead to intelligent solutions of problems.

Australia is a country of migrants, our aborigines would have preferred that there had been no migrants.

The first white settlers had a policy of excluding people of colour (any colour including white ffrom the wrong country!) via the white Australia policy, then we let in Italians and Greeks.

The Italians and Greeks want Australia now to exclude the people of Asia, forgetting that one of Australia's most famous cooks, Kylie Kwong, is 7th generation Australian/Chinese and is thus more Aussie than they are.

The great foods, art and culture that our waves of migrants have brought with them makes Australia so special today.

[barky]

As a USA citizen, I heard that in contrast to our 'melting pot' - where all residents were expected to forget ancestry and become white-bread, plain-vanilla Caucasians speaking Amurrikan English (not that there's anything wrong with that ). Canada, by contrast, was a jigsaw, a mosaic, a stew - where ancestry, language and culture were maintained.

Thailand? Asian; Thai; central Thai. Xenophobic. We farang accommodate to Thai culture. I think most Thais tolerate or ignore us, and luk-krung are neither pure farang nor pure Thai.

Yes, PB I agree.

Multi-culturalism is a great concept. An ideal. It really is a wonderful thought. BUT IT'S A WESTERN IDEA in the main. It's only in western countries do you find it, for example, Canada, USA, Britain, Australia, France and other European countries.

Notice Asian countries are NOT on my list. They don't believe in it!

Sure, if some stupid western country wants to invite me to be a citizen and give me all the benefits of a local native, living conditions that are superior to my home country such as passport, legal status, enforced laws against racism and discrimination, health/retirment schemes etc, why wouldn't I want to immigrate to a western country.

But, absolutely don't expect me to do the same for you.

And when I get there (in my new western home), the government is gonna give me and my ethnic community lots of money to conserve my traditions and culture. And I can live in my ethnic ghetto and almost never need to have contact nor assimilate with the local natives .Wow! where do I sign up?

The locals in the host western countries see these new immigrants, and they know that it is not at all reciprocated . This causes tensions, bitterness, divisions.

No, the concept is a beautiful dream, BUT it's ALL one way. Western countries give and the others take.

I can only think that western countries try to force multi-culturalism down the throats of it's local natives (branding them racist if they don't accept) because there's a buck in it. It must be,in the long term, a good return on investment. That is, it's good for big business.

Edited July 30, 2009 by barky