Sicko

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Just been watching Michael Moore's film 'Sicko'.

If 10% of it is true I need to revise my opinion of the USA.

Anyone else seen it? Is it a wind-up?

Kev

[ballbreaker]

Its certainly a movie all Americans should be made to watch.

Its been sometime since I saw the movie but one comment more than any opened my eyes. I think it was made by a MP in Britain when they came up with their national health care system after WW 2. I don't remember his exact comment but it was something like.....If we as a government can find the money to send our citizens off to die in wars surely we can find the money to provide for the basic health care needs of our citizens.

[garyh]

Its certainly a movie all Americans should be made to watch.

Its been sometime since I saw the movie but one comment more than any opened my eyes. I think it was made by a MP in Britain when they came up with their national health care system after WW 2. I don't remember his exact comment but it was something like.....If we as a government can find the money to send our citizens off to die in wars surely we can find the money to provide for the basic health care needs of our citizens.

The differenc is that the British MP's wheren't looking to fill there pockets with oil profits.

[Sheryl]

It is somewhat sensationalist in its presentation and of course focuses on the gaps and problems not the strengths (e.g. Medicare). But in essence, correct, and this is what the Obama administrations' efforts to reform health care are aimed at.

The elderly, the disabled and the very poor have safety nets and those with good jobs have insurance. but a lot of people still fall through the cracks, and benefits for the very poor are state programs rather than national so some states do a much better job than others in wha tthey provide.

Should note that universal access to health care enjoyed in most European countries etc is not all that old, either. Enacted within living memory. Your grandparents or in soem cases parents, will be able to tell you what it was like before that.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Worrying? If the American infant mortality rate and the American life expectancy are lower than in Europe, and the IM rate is similar to Chechnya or somewhere (I don't recall exactly what was said), then one would have to conclude the Americans would be able to learn from other people. Not that there is very much evidence of a preparedness to do so, and not that the NHS in UK is perfect either of course...

The contrast between the American health experience and that oin canada, UK, France and yes - CUBA! was astonishing. Can you imagine Americans going to Cuba because they cant get good health care in USA? If I were George Bush I would be screaming in pain. But then I am probably smarter than he is. In fact my friend's dog is probably smarter than he is. By all accounts.

Of course MM sensationalises in his own way, as do all people who are trying to make a point. But the fact that he has the raw material to do so is slightly worrying. Food for considerable thought, certainly.

Leaders of the free world?

Kev

Edited August 1, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[verydumbubba]

Is it indeed not somewhat sicko that people live their lives vicariously via fantasy?!

Bubba

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Is it indeed not somewhat sicko that people live their lives vicariously via fantasy?!

Bubba

???

Kev

[swain]

Its amazing that the propaganda machine in the USA is so effective. Really I never trusted any other medical care other than care I got in the USA. Sicko open my mind and I see things very differently now. I was convinced that Canadians were getting sub-standard care and that they were being denied the care needed because of long ques of people waiting to get attention. I try to look back on where exactly I got this information but really I have no clue.

[ballbreaker]

Its amazing that the propaganda machine in the USA is so effective. Really I never trusted any other medical care other than care I got in the USA. Sicko open my mind and I see things very differently now. I was convinced that Canadians were getting sub-standard care and that they were being denied the care needed because of long ques of people waiting to get attention. I try to look back on where exactly I got this information but really I have no clue.

We were educated to believe we have the best medical care in the world by the pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies and medical profession. We might as well throw in the legal profession because you know they want no tort reform

Have you ever wondered why American companies make and import a wide range of products from foreign countries because its cheaper to produce except when it comes to medicines.

[phetaroi]

Its amazing that the propaganda machine in the USA is so effective. Really I never trusted any other medical care other than care I got in the USA. Sicko open my mind and I see things very differently now. I was convinced that Canadians were getting sub-standard care and that they were being denied the care needed because of long ques of people waiting to get attention. I try to look back on where exactly I got this information but really I have no clue.

I could care less about Michael Moore...who I actually think is a sicko. But, last summer I was in the Canadian Rockies, and while taking a ride up to the top of one of the mountains I was in a gondola with a Canadian couple and they asked me how I liked Obama. Then they asked me how I felt about Obama's early health care proposals. These Canadian folks loved their healthcare system. Said they got all the care needed and quickly so, and had been through several medical crises that were handled perfectly.

[zzaa09]

Is it indeed not somewhat sicko that people live their lives vicariously via fantasy?!

Bubba

....and the treatment? More piled high fancy?

[zzaa09]

We were educated to believe we have the best medical care in the world by the pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies and medical profession.

If this is so, how is it that your the sickliest? And shamefully unknowledgable {as a society} about the basic foundations of health. Healthy understanding of mind, body, spirit......

[phetaroi]

I think America does have the world's greatest health care system. If you're one of the haves.

If you're one of the have-nots, you have little or no health care.

[britmaveric]

Socialized medicine is crap.. National Health is a disgrace and you wait forever for anything to be done.

Sicko is entertainment and based on Michael Moore's fantasies. I have one piece of advice for yanks - whatever you do - don't do what Canada, UK, Europe has done you will get substandard care and it will literally bankrupt you.

[Jingthing]

I think America does have the world's greatest health care system. If you're one of the haves.

If you're one of the have-nots, you have little or no health care.

Yes and that is why it is rated 37th by the WHO and has a shockingly low life expectancy.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Socialized medicine is crap.. National Health is a disgrace and you wait forever for anything to be done.

Sicko is entertainment and based on Michael Moore's fantasies. I have one piece of advice for yanks - whatever you do - don't do what Canada, UK, Europe has done you will get substandard care and it will literally bankrupt you.

Ahh, the all-conquering power of sincerely held belief - I remember it well.

The UK NHS system has problems but there is no way you could reasonably call it crap. Personally I have never been let down by it.

The Canadian health service seems to have problems but there is no way you could reasonably call it crap. Canadians on the whole seem to like it.

The French health service seems to be regarded as the best in the world by those who are in a position to judge.

There seems to be a little more than just Michael Moore's fantasies driving the film SiCKO. If you don't agree with the thrust of its conclusions, or you don't care for 'socialisation' (whatever that means), or if social-based government frightens you, then that is fine, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Many things that the USA does in support of its own version of 'truth, justice and freedom' worry me a bit so I can understand the scepticism of people who actually live there.

It seems USA already has a good deal of substandard care, and by all accounts, getting sick bankrupts a good few people now, so I can understand why many people would not want more, but it seems to me there is no need to be scared of social health care. Having said that, I am beginning to see how a USA version of social care might be worrisome and there are many people around the world now right now who don't care much for the USA style of capitalism. It is difficult to see how a little socialisation of core services such as health could possibly make things worse than they are already but I am sure there are lots of people who think the consequences of the USA way of doing things are just splendid.

Thanks to all for their responses, including the occasional redneck view. The comments were all interesting and have helped me to shape a personal opinion and thats what is important. To me anyway.

Kev

Edited August 2, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[samran]

Socialized medicine is crap.. National Health is a disgrace and you wait forever for anything to be done.

Sicko is entertainment and based on Michael Moore's fantasies. I have one piece of advice for yanks - whatever you do - don't do what Canada, UK, Europe has done you will get substandard care and it will literally bankrupt you.

It isn't socialised medicine. It is socialised insurance. (Though granted in the UK, more doctors than most work on the government payroll)

Most other places in the world, doctors work privately, and are usually without fail are one of the better paid professions.

Why have a government involved? Cause doctors, as an employee group, are one of the strongest unions in any country. Government funding ensures that doctors provide value for money in the treatment they give, and ensure they treat people regardless of their ability to pay (it's called 'equity', folks).

Edited August 2, 2009 by samran