The Stock Market

[Parvis]

The rumours about the "Plunge Protection Team" came into existence - if I recall correctly - during Reagans Administration in 1987. This in specific is were I disagree for reasons of logic, difficulties in administration etc etc etc:

1) It is such a simplistic way of "fixing" a difficult problem

2) It requires an act of Congress

3) It requires full time participation to alleviate problems BEFORE they get out of hand

4) It requires expertise not normally found among bureaucrats

I do not recall specifically Geithners statement - but I do question whether it was in reference to the Stock Market - but in either case it does not suggest a "Plunge Protection Team" which goes back 23 years ago.

To my knowledge "Specialists" are no longer the "controlling mechanism" of the Market. The Market is much larger and more complicated now. But I do believe this "controlling mechanism" exists - but like the Specialists are/were - they are not an arm of the US Government.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Parvis

[badge]

Anyone got the Enigma Machine?

It might be worth trying to decipher what "Parvis" is "saying"?

[Parvis]

Anyone got the Enigma Machine?

It might be worth trying to decipher what "Parvis" is "saying"?

My personal "tutor" was Greenspan - to give you a hint. Once you understand - let me know - perhaps I will "elaborate" further. In the end you may actually be able to "Read the Mind of the Market".

Edited May 11, 2010 by Parvis

[Abrak]

My personal "tutor" was Greenspan - to give you a hint. Once you understand - let me know - perhaps I will "elaborate" further. In the end you may actually be able to "Read the Mind of the Market".

Well today I found 'Posh Spice' quoting Camus on Balthus so on that basis I am probably with the little green goblins....

[AlexLah]

You guys playing the casino, you wanna bet where the market will go tomorrow?

I already told.

Have a good time.

[PCA]

The rumours about the "Plunge Protection Team" came into existence - if I recall correctly - during Reagans Administration in 1987. This in specific is were I disagree for reasons of logic, difficulties in administration etc etc etc:

1) It is such a simplistic way of "fixing" a difficult problem

2) It requires an act of Congress

3) It requires full time participation to alleviate problems BEFORE they get out of hand

4) It requires expertise not normally found among bureaucrats

I do not recall specifically Geithners statement - but I do question whether it was in reference to the Stock Market - but in either case it does not suggest a "Plunge Protection Team" which goes back 23 years ago.

To my knowledge "Specialists" are no longer the "controlling mechanism" of the Market. The Market is much larger and more complicated now. But I do believe this "controlling mechanism" exists - but like the Specialists are/were - they are not an arm of the US Government.

Parvis you want to say that PPT is not a force existing in reality which has pumped billions of USD (in front of the face of hundreds of floor traders) preventing stock- and bond markets from carrying out natural corrections by permanently blowing air into the fiscal bubble and therewith helping Alan Greenspan's (or who ever plays the FED pussy) policy in creating the financial mess the whole globe except the elite is suffering from now?

[lannarebirth]

The rumours about the "Plunge Protection Team" came into existence - if I recall correctly - during Reagans Administration in 1987. This in specific is were I disagree for reasons of logic, difficulties in administration etc etc etc:

1) It is such a simplistic way of "fixing" a difficult problem

2) It requires an act of Congress

3) It requires full time participation to alleviate problems BEFORE they get out of hand

4) It requires expertise not normally found among bureaucrats

I do not recall specifically Geithners statement - but I do question whether it was in reference to the Stock Market - but in either case it does not suggest a "Plunge Protection Team" which goes back 23 years ago.

To my knowledge "Specialists" are no longer the "controlling mechanism" of the Market. The Market is much larger and more complicated now. But I do believe this "controlling mechanism" exists - but like the Specialists are/were - they are not an arm of the US Government.

Parvis you want to say that PPT is not a force existing in reality which has pumped billions of USD (in front of the face of hundreds of floor traders) preventing stock- and bond markets from carrying out natural corrections by permanently blowing air into the fiscal bubble and therewith helping Alan Greenspan's (or who ever plays the FED pussy) policy in creating the financial mess the whole globe except the elite is suffering from now?

Maybe he's never seen what an S&P futures buy program looks like up close and personal. I have and live to tell the tale.

The most profitable single day of trading I ever had was the FED's surprise intraday rate cut in January 2001. Thank you Uncle Al and PWGOFM (aka PPT). Last Thursday was second best ever. My heart was beating so fast I altogether forgot the PPT was gonna come in and buy it up, so I failed to buy after covering. Taking this week off. Playing against the PPT is like trying to slew Goliath. Pretty sweet when you pull it off, but more often roadkill.

[Parvis]

Plunge Protection Team"Plunge Protection Team" was originally the headline for an article in The Washington Post on February 23, 1997,^[2] and has since become a colloquial term used by some mainstream publications to refer to the Working Group.^[3][4] Initially, the term was used to express the opinion that the Working Group was being used to prop up the markets during downturns.^[5][6] Financial writers for British newspapers The Observer and The Daily Telegraph, along with U.S. Congressman Ron Paul and writers Kevin Phillips (who claims "no personal firsthand knowledge" and is "not interested in becoming a conspiracy investigator")^[7] and John Crudele,^[8] have charged the Working Group with going beyond their legal mandate. Claims about the Working Group, which are labeled conspiracy theories by some writers, generally include that it is an orchestrated mechanism that attempts to manipulate U.S. stock markets in the event of a market crash by using government funds to buy stocks, or other instruments such as stock index futures—acts which are forbidden by law. In August 2005, Sprott Asset Management released a report that argued that there is little doubt that the PPT intervened to protect the stock market.^[9] However, these articles usually refer to the Working Group using moral suasion to attempt to convince banks to buy stock index futures.^[10]

Former Federal Reserve Board member Robert Heller, in the Wall Street Journal, opined that "Instead of flooding the entire economy with liquidity, and thereby increasing the danger of inflation, the Fed could support the stock market directly by buying market averages in the futures market, thereby stabilizing the market as a whole." His statement has been used to claim that the Fed actually did act in that way. Mainstream analysts call those claims a conspiracy theory, explaining that such claims are simplistic and unworkable.^[11][12]

Edited May 11, 2010 by Parvis

[PCA]

Plunge Protection Team"Plunge Protection Team" was originally the headline for an article in The Washington Post on February 23, 1997,^[2] and has since become a colloquial term used by some mainstream publications to refer to the Working Group.^[3][4] Initially, the term was used to express the opinion that the Working Group was being used to prop up the markets during downturns.^[5][6] Financial writers for British newspapers The Observer and The Daily Telegraph, along with U.S. Congressman Ron Paul and writers Kevin Phillips (who claims “no personal firsthand knowledge” and is “not interested in becoming a conspiracy investigator”)^[7] and John Crudele,^[8] have charged the Working Group with going beyond their legal mandate. Claims about the Working Group, which are labeled conspiracy theories by some writers, generally include that it is an orchestrated mechanism that attempts to manipulate U.S. stock markets in the event of a market crash by using government funds to buy stocks, or other instruments such as stock index futures—acts which are forbidden by law. In August 2005, Sprott Asset Management released a report that argued that there is little doubt that the PPT intervened to protect the stock market.^[9] However, these articles usually refer to the Working Group using moral suasion to attempt to convince banks to buy stock index futures.^[10]

Former Federal Reserve Board member Robert Heller, in the Wall Street Journal, opined that "Instead of flooding the entire economy with liquidity, and thereby increasing the danger of inflation, the Fed could support the stock market directly by buying market averages in the futures market, thereby stabilizing the market as a whole." His statement has been used to claim that the Fed actually did act in that way. Mainstream analysts call those claims a conspiracy theory, explaining that such claims are simplistic and unworkable.^[11][12]

I thought AG is your personal Tutor; just give him a call maybe he wants to confess some of the shit he did before crossing Jordan.

PPT was active first as a physical group of traders on the floor well recognized from all others dealing there and later on substituted by a computer programme which is not located in the US. Unfortunately Wikipedia will most likely not confirm (I didn't check) and I wonder why...

We don't discuss conspiracy theory here but you shouldn't claim things you have no clue about.

Edited May 11, 2010 by PCA

[Parvis]

Plunge Protection Team"Plunge Protection Team" was originally the headline for an article in The Washington Post on February 23, 1997,^[2] and has since become a colloquial term used by some mainstream publications to refer to the Working Group.^[3][4] Initially, the term was used to express the opinion that the Working Group was being used to prop up the markets during downturns.^[5][6] Financial writers for British newspapers The Observer and The Daily Telegraph, along with U.S. Congressman Ron Paul and writers Kevin Phillips (who claims "no personal firsthand knowledge" and is "not interested in becoming a conspiracy investigator")^[7] and John Crudele,^[8] have charged the Working Group with going beyond their legal mandate. Claims about the Working Group, which are labeled conspiracy theories by some writers, generally include that it is an orchestrated mechanism that attempts to manipulate U.S. stock markets in the event of a market crash by using government funds to buy stocks, or other instruments such as stock index futures—acts which are forbidden by law. In August 2005, Sprott Asset Management released a report that argued that there is little doubt that the PPT intervened to protect the stock market.^[9] However, these articles usually refer to the Working Group using moral suasion to attempt to convince banks to buy stock index futures.^[10]

Former Federal Reserve Board member Robert Heller, in the Wall Street Journal, opined that "Instead of flooding the entire economy with liquidity, and thereby increasing the danger of inflation, the Fed could support the stock market directly by buying market averages in the futures market, thereby stabilizing the market as a whole." His statement has been used to claim that the Fed actually did act in that way. Mainstream analysts call those claims a conspiracy theory, explaining that such claims are simplistic and unworkable.^[11][12]

I thought AG is your personal Tutor; just give him a call maybe he wants to confess some of the shit he did before crossing Jordan.

PPT was active first as a physical group of traders on the floor well recognized from all others dealing there and later on substituted by a computer programme which is not located in the US. Unfortunately Wikipedia will most likely not confirm (I didn't check) and I wonder why...

We don't discuss conspiracy theory here but you shouldn't claim things you have no clue about.

You are obviously not a particular intelligent person I made reference to Greenspan because "Greenspeak" and of a comment about needing to interpret my paragraph - not because I actually know him.

You could not keep something of this size secret. Period. The orders would have to be entered somewhere. The theory is that Goldman Sachs or Citibank (or pick a firm) is part of this conspiracy. That means that multiple traders and officers would have to be in the know. You cannot mask trades of that size because it would essentially be the largest hedge fund in the world. Someone would spill the beans. Can you imagine the signing bonus from a book publisher if you could prove the existence of the PPT?

I hereby offer a $100,000 advance against 50% of the royalties to anyone who can "show me the trades." Give me names and dates. I will write the book, and we both become famous

This offer has been in existance for "some time" - So far NO TAKERS.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Parvis

[Parvis]

PCA

Reading "between your lines" I actually read something that I MAY agree with - but there is only circumstantial evidence of this theory - to my knowledge. A certain powerfull international group with "World headquarters" only a few miles away from WallStreet may actually be interested to create an "intriquing rumour" such as "PPT" in order to mislead intentionally.

To be able to "keep an orderly Market" requires significant leverage. What is the "Organization" that has the highest leverage over ALL Financial Markets in the U.S. and just recently - in March - filed for IPO? What is their connection to an Organization in San Jose, California which clears a "staggering amount" yearly.

I think - perhaps - you MAY just be "connecting the wrong dots".

Edited May 12, 2010 by Parvis

[Abrak]

PCA

Reading "between your lines" I actually read something that I MAY agree with - but there is only circumstantial evidence of this theory - to my knowledge. A certain powerfull international group with "World headquarters" only a few miles away from WallStreet may actually be interested to create an "intriquing rumour" such as "PPT" in order to mislead intentionally.

To be able to "keep an orderly Market" requires significant leverage. What is the "Organization" that has the highest leverage over ALL Financial Markets in the U.S. and just recently - in March - filed for IPO? What is their connection to an Organization in San Jose, California which clears a "staggering amount" yearly.

I think - perhaps - you MAY just be "connecting the wrong dots".

So now the 'PPT' have gone from a conspiracy theory into a conspiracy theory based on a conspiracy theory.

This is all well and good but we now have to guess who is involved. I bet Sarah Palin is involved somehow. I am hoping the mystery company from San Jose is Cisco - I am pretty sure they are inherently evil - they make products that noone understands and have probably installed systems in these markets that turn sell orders in Cisco into buys. John Chambers looks dodgy too - that haircut - can you actually imagine what it would be like to be sat next to him at a dinner party?

Anyway I am now connecting the dots - I am pretty convinced that Apple are involved although you probably dont know that yet.

[Parvis]

I am sure the real professionals on this thread (like Gambles - for instance) will know exactly which Financial Organization in San Jose I am making reference to. It isn't even a "Conspiracy Theory" - just a known fact.

However, in general - this knowledge adds nothing to one's trading - just to one's overall understanding.

But - as some might claim "Why light a Candle - if you can curse the Darkness".

Over and Out.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Parvis

[zorro1]

around 10% pullback is what market was looking for.

USA looks pretty darn good

Educate yourselves peoples !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

Europe propped up and G.B sorted.

Will be some nice short term gains if you bought last several days

[flying]

USA looks pretty darn good

That is odd.....Here in the USA they just announced a deficit for April of 82 Billion USD

Largest ever recorded for April... (Also USA has only ever recorded a deficit for 13 of the last 56 Aprils)

We have also just set a new record of 19 months in a row of deficits.

Here in the actual USA it is not looking pretty darn good at all. Dont even look at the gulf oil spewing & what that represents.....

[midas]

That is odd.....Here in the USA they just announced a deficit for April of 82 Billion USD

Largest ever recorded for April... (Also USA has only ever recorded a deficit for 13 of the last 56 Aprils)

We have also just set a new record of 19 months in a row of deficits.

Here in the actual USA it is not looking pretty darn good at all. Dont even look at the gulf oil spewing & what that represents.....

but things could be worse......i mean imagine if you had to pay mortgage or rent

[badge]

Anyone got the Enigma Machine?

It might be worth trying to decipher what "Parvis" is "saying"?

My personal "tutor" was Greenspan - to give you a hint. Once you understand - let me know - perhaps I will "elaborate" further. In the end you may actually be able to "Read the Mind of the Market".

No thank you. You can keep your "Market Mind Reading".

Watch out for the turn around - potentially tonight. I don't want to have to tell you "Told Ya".

[...]

[Parvis]

The same comment that was made about Soros when he wrote about his "reflexivity theory" and "reading the mind of the Market".

Most people just didn't understand - nor believe. Too "Highbrow"?

I don't recall offering to "tutor" you. You must be good in copying and pasting comments taken "out of context". Use your "Enigma Machine" to interpret.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Parvis

[lannarebirth]

The same comment that was made about Soros when he wrote about his "reflexivity theory" and "reading the mind of the Market".

Most people just didn't understand - nor believe. Too "Highbrow"?

I don't recall offering to "tutor" you. You must be good in copying and pasting comments taken "out of context". Use your "Enigma Machine" to interpret.

It's no great skill to know where any given market is headed (most of the time). What's really difficult is to use that knowledge to make a lot of money. Overcoming the market isn't nearly so difficult as overcoming one's self.

[Parvis]

"It's no great skill to know where any given market is headed (most of the time). What's really difficult is to use that knowledge to make a lot of money. Overcoming the market isn't nearly so difficult as overcoming one's self."

Absolutely correct. I have found - that studying the Market and Trading is a "method of self discovery". But the aim "to make a lot of money" I find is "selfdefeating" in the respect that it limits your "objectivity". Money is the "byproduct" of your success in understanding the Market - and yourself.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Parvis

[Gambles]

PCA

Reading "between your lines" I actually read something that I MAY agree with - but there is only circumstantial evidence of this theory - to my knowledge. A certain powerfull international group with "World headquarters" only a few miles away from WallStreet may actually be interested to create an "intriquing rumour" such as "PPT" in order to mislead intentionally.

To be able to "keep an orderly Market" requires significant leverage. What is the "Organization" that has the highest leverage over ALL Financial Markets in the U.S. and just recently - in March - filed for IPO? What is their connection to an Organization in San Jose, California which clears a "staggering amount" yearly.

I think - perhaps - you MAY just be "connecting the wrong dots".

Guys,

I'm no conspiracy theorist but do always remember that The Fed was actually set up by Wall Street (specifically the House of Morgan and its offspring) to protect and promote the interests of Wall Street - it was such a hot topic that they had to hide themselves away on Jekyll Island when they had their secret talks about setting up the original Bank Protection Team

Also history generally commends J P Morgan when the old patriarch devised a PPT blueprint

and we're surprised that the system is infused with self-interest and moral hazards???

[Gambles]

PCA

Reading "between your lines" I actually read something that I MAY agree with - but there is only circumstantial evidence of this theory - to my knowledge. A certain powerfull international group with "World headquarters" only a few miles away from WallStreet may actually be interested to create an "intriquing rumour" such as "PPT" in order to mislead intentionally.

To be able to "keep an orderly Market" requires significant leverage. What is the "Organization" that has the highest leverage over ALL Financial Markets in the U.S. and just recently - in March - filed for IPO? What is their connection to an Organization in San Jose, California which clears a "staggering amount" yearly.

I think - perhaps - you MAY just be "connecting the wrong dots".

So now the 'PPT' have gone from a conspiracy theory into a conspiracy theory based on a conspiracy theory.

This is all well and good but we now have to guess who is involved. I bet Sarah Palin is involved somehow. I am hoping the mystery company from San Jose is Cisco - I am pretty sure they are inherently evil - they make products that noone understands and have probably installed systems in these markets that turn sell orders in Cisco into buys. John Chambers looks dodgy too - that haircut - can you actually imagine what it would be like to be sat next to him at a dinner party?

Anyway I am now connecting the dots - I am pretty convinced that Apple are involved although you probably dont know that yet.

[Gambles]

around 10% pullback is what market was looking for.

USA looks pretty darn good

Educate yourselves peoples !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

Europe propped up and G.B sorted.

Will be some nice short term gains if you bought last several days

I don't think that anyone doubts how many nickels there

it's just how close the 'dozers are that we're not sure about.....

[Gambles]

The same comment that was made about Soros when he wrote about his "reflexivity theory" and "reading the mind of the Market".

Most people just didn't understand - nor believe. Too "Highbrow"?

I don't recall offering to "tutor" you. You must be good in copying and pasting comments taken "out of context". Use your "Enigma Machine" to interpret.

It's no great skill to know where any given market is headed (most of the time). What's really difficult is to use that knowledge to make a lot of money. Overcoming the market isn't nearly so difficult as overcoming one's self.

A lot of people inside and oustide the industry haven't understood/still don't understand that at all...LTCM for instance.....

[Parvis]

The Markets are "kept orderly" which at one time was done by NYSE Specialists. This implies a "shaking out" of the Market to prevent a "1929 type crash". Who are the new "Specialists" ? - I leave this up to your imagination.

As far as a PPT "conspiracy" - the following offer was made first in April 2003 and even posted on the Employee Bulletin Board of the NYSE:

* You could not keep something of this size secret. Period. The orders would have to be entered somewhere. The theory is that Goldman Sachs or Citibank (or pick a firm) is part of this conspiracy. That means that multiple traders and officers would have to be in the know. You cannot mask trades of that size because it would essentially be the largest hedge fund in the world. Someone would spill the beans. Can you imagine the signing bonus from a book publisher if you could prove the existence of the PPT?

I hereby offer a $100,000 advance against 50% of the royalties to anyone who can "show me the trades." Give me names and dates. I will write the book, and we both become famous.

There have been no takers. I invite anyone to show me proof. I will arrange a "Bloomberg Interview" and you are on your way to become famous and make an easy US$100 000 for you knowledge.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Parvis

[siamamerican]

Been trekking in the Himalayas for a few weeks and missed the real time market plunge. My personal losses were large though the last 10 days. This ludicrous thread put me in good spirits. The markets drops after climbing nearly 50% in a little over a year and self proclaimed investment gurus are predicting a financial meltdown.

Get a grip over your irrational thoughts. Do you really think we weren't due for a major correction? If your wet dreams consist of conspiracy theories, monetary policies ( believe me – most of you no nothing about ) and total financial collapse, it is time to check yourself into clinic.

The sun came up today and the lady is sweeping the dust in front of her shop across the street. Life is moving along much the same it did prior to the economic correction. Nations across the world, from the US to Australia are struggling with the excesses of the last 20 years and beginning to comprehend that living within your means is healthy. Developed nations have been in worse financial shape before and rebounded robustly. The preceding cycle of prolonged global expansion created unhealthy consequences. In the end it is just an economic cycle that will come to an end and most likely we are already in the very early stages of the next economic bubble.

Anyhow, things aren't really that bad. This coming from an investor with a portfolio consisting of BP (2nd largest position) and GS.

Edited May 14, 2010 by siamamerican

[Parvis]

And I remember "George Burns" chewing on his cigar saying "I can say that too"

[midas]

Been trekking in the Himalayas for a few weeks and missed the real time market plunge. My personal losses were large though the last 10 days. This ludicrous thread put me in good spirits. The markets drops after climbing nearly 50% in a little over a year and self proclaimed investment gurus are predicting a financial meltdown.

Get a grip over your irrational thoughts. Do you really think we weren't due for a major correction? If your wet dreams consist of conspiracy theories, monetary policies ( believe me – most of you no nothing about ) and total financial collapse, it is time to check yourself into clinic.

The sun came up today and the lady is sweeping the dust in front of her shop across the street. Life is moving along much the same it did prior to the economic correction. Nations across the world, from the US to Australia are struggling with the excesses of the last 20 years and beginning to comprehend that living within your means is healthy. Developed nations have been in worse financial shape before and rebounded robustly. The preceding cycle of prolonged global expansion created unhealthy consequences. In the end it is just an economic cycle that will come to an end and most likely we are already in the very early stages of the next economic bubble.

Anyhow, things aren't really that bad. This coming from an investor with a portfolio consisting of BP (2nd largest position) and GS.

I get the message.............you think we are all a bunch of ignoranamuses

But then presumably we are able to quote other people ? those who it would be hard to say is an ingoramus ?

NBC’s Brian Williams: “The World Has No Money, And The Emperor Has No Clothes”

http://www.dailymarkets.com/stocks/2010/05...has-no-clothes/

[midas]

An interesting web site for those who would like an " alternative " perspective

http://www.gamingthemarket.com/

[Parvis]

An interesting web site for those who would like an " alternative " perspective

http://www.gamingthemarket.com/

While I don't always - or should I better say hardly ever - agree with your premises - I do like the info you are providing of alternative viewpoints. "For it is in diversity - that we can prosper"

Keep it up.