Dsi Opens Inquiry Into Foreigners Buying Land

[thaihome]

As others have said, this is a reaction to a group of Thais that wants to sell rice growing land to some Saudi investors. I suspect the DSI is getting involved as the location of the land tends to be in areas where the TRT/PPP big shots are in control. Not really a new storey as it started last year.

Saudi Arabia might invest in Thai rice farms

TH

[toptuan]

If a genuine witch-hunt, this is going to bring grief to about 1200 farang-Isaan farmers in our province alone!

[bkkjames]

hmm, the house that i rent has a chili plant in the backyard - but I promise - it was there before i moved in. Can i still eat them though?

I hope you have a work permit for watering it.

The wife does this Toady - I supervise and offer smartass comments.

[BSJ]

In a fair world the government would allow a foreigner to own 1 rai to live on, build a house on with a few conditions attached. Or even a transferable 99 year lease would be nice.

Don't see it happening anytime soon!

[oldsparrow]

Countries, especially the poor one, with history of colonialism threat are quick to be jumpy of the idea of foreigner owning land.

When was Thailand a colony..?? If fact Thailand is always spouting off that they where one of the few countries that was never invaded by anyone and colonised.. In reality look at some of the countries in SEA, ie Singapore and Malaysia, and their colonial history and in fact in some circumstances you can in fact own land. IMHO, with reference to land ownership in Thailand is more to do with the Thai "elite" loosing control of the exploitation of their own people. The elite has created this xenophobia to protect their own interests only.... nothing to do with doing things for the good of the country...

Thailand has never been "Officially" colonized, the English didn't want it and the Japs just walked in and claimed it, rofl....... Unfortunately the Thais are not teached this in school, so they have no idea and think they are the best nation under the sun (excuse the Jap pun)....

Not colonised but under great threat and lost half of the territory.

From the era of King Rama I we had owned territories that are now Lao PDR, Cambodia and almost half of Malaysia plus some areas in Myanmar.

According to the Thai side of the story (for I can't give western reference at the moment), there were many attempts of colonisation. The English and the French once agreed to divide the land by Chaopraya River, west bank to the English, east to the French.

There was also an event that the English Ambassador tried to offer the crown price of King Rama V, his brother, that if he cooperate TL would be devide into 3 parts. 1 to the Prince, 1 to the King and 1 to the English.. The attempt was failed, partly, to the intervention of the most powerful lord of that time Somdet Chaopraya Mahasrisyriyayong, one ancestor of Bunnag family, he strongly displayed to the price his loyalty to the King.

PS:

1. The crown prince in the event passed away by illness and the King made one of his son to be the crown prince, he passed away by illness then another son was made crown prince and he became King Rama VI.

2. However, different countries have their own reason on land ownership policy. I think foreigner can't buy land in Japan as well.

3. Actually the Thai elites ALREADY own LOT of land. Allowing foreigner to buy land will raise the value both in the buying and the rent, they will get benefit. It's the starter, middle class Thai business man, who will be disadvantaged in the competition.

[oldsparrow]

hmm, the house that i rent has a chili plant in the backyard - but I promise - it was there before i moved in. Can i still eat them though?

I hope you have a work permit for watering it.

The wife does this Toady - I supervise and offer smartass comments.

From now you can tell your wife that the law prohibits farang to do farming/gardening in Thai's land

[bkkjames]

hmm, the house that i rent has a chili plant in the backyard - but I promise - it was there before i moved in. Can i still eat them though?

I hope you have a work permit for watering it.

The wife does this Toady - I supervise and offer smartass comments.

From now you can tell your wife that the law prohibits farang to do farming/gardening in Thai's land

True. Funny thing is (not really) I have been trying to find a Thai gardener to come by the house once a month to take care of the plants etc - to no avail.

[oldsparrow]

Countries, especially the poor one, with history of colonialism threat are quick to be jumpy of the idea of foreigner owning land.

When was Thailand a colony..?? If fact Thailand is always spouting off that they where one of the few countries that was never invaded by anyone and colonised.. In reality look at some of the countries in SEA, ie Singapore and Malaysia, and their colonial history and in fact in some circumstances you can in fact own land. IMHO, with reference to land ownership in Thailand is more to do with the Thai "elite" loosing control of the exploitation of their own people. The elite has created this xenophobia to protect their own interests only.... nothing to do with doing things for the good of the country...

Thailand was invaded by the Japanese and defeated rapidly.........had the British and Americans not intervened Thailand would be part of Japan today. I don't think they teach that in Thailand's history books. I think you are totally correct: "...land ownership in Thailand is more to do with the Thai elite loosing control of the exploitation of their own people....The elite has created this xenophobia to protect their own interests only.... nothing to do with doing things for the good of the country." And about "agricultural serfdoms," most farmers are already slaves to the system........it could hardly get worse for them if foreigners started getting more involved, bringing with them capital and new production techniques.

They teach in school at Mor 2 or 3 (Grade 8 or 9) I am not quite sure :

On the 8 Dec 1941 (actually the same time as the Pearl attack). The J. landed in Manao (Lemon) gulf in Prajuabkirikhan. There was fighting for half day then the PM Marshal Phibunesonkram talk to the J. and agree to sign the alliance treaty. The J. insist that the Thai gov. must swear the oath in Wat Prakaew of the Grand Palace so it happened. In short the J. march pass TL to then Burma. Printed too much money when they bough anything from the Thai (that turn to rubbish). The J. supported TL to invade Fench Indo China and British Shan State to gain lost territories and the event became victory manument in BKK. After the war TL claim the Free Thai activity and stage mock traial on the PM for war crime in alliance with the J. Using legal trick the PM didn't received penalty. The American and Brit were OK with the arguement and they want TL to be a base for white Chinese in southeren front (This sentence they teach in University not in school). However, the French wanted to chew up TL.

*****

It's true that the J. punished the Thais by themselves when they caught them sealing. The popular story is forcing the thieves to drink gasoline that they stole. The Thai tried to steal J. good from the train by jump up and kick it down, the slang for this is The Thai Kicking Company บริษัทไทยถีบ. Few years ago there was a Thai film ยุวชนทหาร about the briet fighting with the J. on the 8 Dec. 41

The Thai chief of envoy to J. was Praya Phahonponpayuhasena, old friend to Tojo. They were classmate cadet in the German military school, another guy in the group was Goering. Once Goering was punch the front teeth out by another Thai cadet. In 1935, Goering wrote to Thai classmate if he want to send his son to German military school, Goering would take care of the arrangement.

I am sure it was not an equal partner but it was sure different from the J. occupation somewhere else.

[Gary A]

The government isn't worried about the farmers. It would be a financial disaster for the middlemen and other powers that be to have the marketing taken away from them. If the people who lease the farms took the product directly to the cargo ships, how would the middlemen cheat them?

This is also the reason that there are no farmer co-operatives to market their own products.

[oldsparrow]

There is more than the co-op. To secure the popularity and vote the gov. employ stupid policy of guarantee the price and pawn the rice HIGHER than the market price. Naturally no farmer came to pay money, get the rice back and transport it to the market. So we had million tons of rice bought by tax waiting to be released at the "right" time for the state coffer. Then the corrupted politicians make money from the "spoiled rice" that is to be sold at "lower" to "certain rice merchants".

Misery of the farmers mostly come from what they have to pay to grow rice such as fertiliser, insecticide etc.

[thaihome]

If a genuine witch-hunt, this is going to bring grief to about 1200 farang-Isaan farmers in our province alone!

Only if they bought the land with a company that had Thai nominees that cannot prove they had the funds themselves to purchase the shares in the company. If the land is in the wife’s name and a confirmation statement that the land is not matrimonial property is on file, there is no worry.

TH

[flemishdude]

Thailand a colony - when, since when was Thailand ever colanised? - occupied on a temp basis (more than once), yes, but never colonised.

Mid and Far East concerns manipulating local market economics by putting disproportionatly large sums of money on the table to buy exclusive use of land to grow crops which are then, instead of been on the open market, are then exclusively processed, packaged and distributed in Japan, Qautar, Saudi ... and wherever else.

This is what the Thai authroities are seeking to put a stop to.

Thailand was probably first colonised by the Khmers who created much of what we see in terms of architecture, then the Burmese and most recently by the Chinese.

I thought rice was subject to pricing by the intervention board at a rate set annually which buys it in and then exports. It is by no means an open market and in reality a giant collective in which the board and exporters reap ( excuse the pun ) the greater profit. I suspect the latter vested interest and their political puppets have most to fear from the alleged Middle Eastern/Japanese hegemony and naturally are therefore going to protect their fat rice bowl ( sorry, again). Talk of protecting the actual farmer is of course just sentimental twaddle used as window dressing to disguise their true motives.

wrong Thailand destroyed the khmer empire during the Thai Khmer war from 1352 until 1444 under King Rama thibohi 1 .The Khmer architecture you are reffering to is situated in Isaan wich was part of the Khmer empire during that era.Hello why do you think most people is Isaan speak Lao or Khmer.

About kolonisation after the second world war Winston Churchhill wanted to make Thailand a Britisch kolonie but the American congress but a stop to this because the then ambassador of thailand in the US knew some very influential politicians in the American congress.

[Richard W]

Thailand was probably first colonised by the Khmers who created much of what we see in terms of architecture, then the Burmese and most recently by the Chinese.

wrong Thailand destroyed the khmer empire during the Thai Khmer war from 1352 until 1444 under King Rama thibohi 1 .The Khmer architecture you are reffering to is situated in Isaan wich was part of the Khmer empire during that era.Hello why do you think most people is Isaan speak Lao or Khmer.

Electra is right. Sukhothai was under Khmer control until Ram Khamhaeng's family threw them out - or at least, that's the traditional story. Turning the tables on the Khmers came later.

There's Khmer architecture at Sukhothai, and there are bits dotted across Central Thailand as well as Isaan.

[ericthai]

Heaven forbid that poor Thai farmers are forced off their land by greedy foreigners to become just a source of cheap labour beholden to the landowners.

Much better that greedy Thais do it instead.

How are they forced off, all they have to do is not sell.. if they rent then they are making money.. I dont understand the problem..just dont sell your land.

[reallyok]

Countries, especially the poor one, with history of colonialism threat are quick to be jumpy of the idea of foreigner owning land.

I can't remember what grade but I first heard of the sign "No dog and Chinese are allowed" in school class.

There has been talk of con/pro of the retire Japanese settlement for ages.

It can be just local business man's interest not genuine motive in the advocation but the point is surely inflamable among the Thais and no policy maker want to take a risk against mainstream sentiment for change.

Well, i think that the average Thai business men are afraid that someone might try to 'hop aboard' their gravy train. So seeing as how they and their 'cronies' are running the show right now, they are sure as hel_l going to keep it that way

[churchill]

Preserving Thai land for Thais is critical

Writer: Veera Prateepchaikul

Published: 10/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News'There is fish in the water; rice in the field." This message which appears on an inscription stone dating back to the Sukhothai period speaks volumes about the sentimental connection between Thai people and rice farming. As an agriculture-based country, rice farming has been, for generations, a way of life for millions of Thais. It is more than an occupation protected by the law and reserved for Thais only.

Thus, when rumours about foreign investors in cahoots with their Thai nominees having acquired large swathes of farmland in this country in order to produce rice to be exported back to their countries broke out, there was an uproar and a chorus of protests among farming groups and the local media. The hostile reaction should send a clear message to the potential foreign investors that their investment projects, whether they really exist or not, are resolutely not welcome here.

The Thai attitude towards the notion of foreigners occupying Thai farmland to grow rice or other staples is however different from our neighbouring countries such as Laos and Cambodia and other developing and underdeveloped countries in Africa and Latin America which have now been targetted by multinationals and wealthy governments for massive land grabs as part of the food security strategy. For instance, Arshaqia Chamber, one of Saudi Arabia's oldest and most well-established organisations devoted to the promotion of private sector contribution to the economy, recently sent a circular to all Saudi businessmen to invest in agriculture projects overseas with the objective of achieving long-term food security for Saudi Arabia and to secure a continuous supply of food for the kingdom at "low and fair" prices.

continued

-- Bangkok Post 10/08/09http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/21787/preserving-thai-land-for-thais-is-critical

[churchill]

No nominees found buying farmland

Writer: BangkokPost.com

Published: 11/08/2009 at 10:44 AM The Agriculture and Cooperatives Ministry has not found evidence to confirm claims that foreigners are using Thai nominees to buy farmland in Thailand.

"There have been claims that foreign investors have formed nominee companies to buy land in the central and northern regions to invest in rice farming," Agriculture Minister Theera Wongsamut said on Tuesday. But investigators had not found clear evidence of this occurring.

The law prohibits foreigners from being the sole owner of a farm, but they can run an agricultural business in the form of a joint venture in which Thai partners must hold at least 51 per cent of the shares.

continued http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...buying-farmland

-- Bangkok Post 11/08/09

[churchill]

FARMING

Foreigners involve in Thai farming through nominees

By The Nation

Several foreigners have bought up land and commissioned farming activities in the Central part of Thailand, Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot said.

He referred to the Department of Special Investigation's report, that these foreigners have been involved in the farming for over three years through Thai nominees.

He noted that the ministry is launching an in-depth investigation on the companies which have foreigners as shareholders, to find out if the activities violate the Foreign Business law. The information would then be submitted to the Cabinet.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/08/17...ss_30109964.php

-- The Nation 17/08/09

[churchill]

Govt finds foreigners buying farmland

Writer: BangkokPost.com

Published: 19/08/2009 at 04:02 PM The government has found clues that foreigners could be buying some 10,000 rai of farmland in the central region and hiring farmers to grow crops there, Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot said on Wednesday.

The Foreign Business Act prohibits foreigners or foreign firms from buying or renting land to grow agricultural crops or raise livestock, but they can operate farm businesses in the form of joint ventures in which Thai partners must hold at least 51 per cent of equity.

Officials from the Department of Business Development and the Department of Special Investigations investigated agriculural areas in the central provinces, and found that foreign investors could be owning farmland over the limit set by the country's law, Mr Alongkorn said.

Under the Foreign Business Act, violators could face three years in prison and/or a fine of 100,000 to one million baht.

He said the investigation team was determining whether the foreign buyers were using nominees to invest in the country's agricultural business, and the findings should be completed next week.

"The government is not trying to obstruct foreigners from doing business in Thailand but their businesses must be legitimate," he said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...buying-farmland

-- Bangkok Post 19/08/09

[churchill]

Ministry land bill takes aim at foreigners

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2227...m-at-foreigners

"The bill will also address land ownership by foreigners who marry Thais"

This looks like opening a can of worms .

[dondraper]

I can't remember what grade but I first heard of the sign "No dog and Chinese are allowed" in school class.

How old are you? You heard about the sign in school as a child as a historical anecdote or the sign was actually hanging? Interesting.

[dondraper]

Ministry land bill takes aim at foreigners

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2227...m-at-foreigners

"The bill will also address land ownership by foreigners who marry Thais"

This looks like opening a can of worms .

I don't see how this could ever go anywhere unless they simply made it illegal for Thais married to farang to own land. How do they prove that someone is being used as a proxy/nominee? How do you define those terms?

Farang marries Thai. They buy land. Why would that sometimes be Ok and sometimes be illegal? It has to be either one or the other.

Edited August 19, 2009 by dondraper

[dondraper]

"The deputy permanent secretary said the bill had been modelled on similar laws in foreign countries, such as Japan and the US, which heavily regulate land ownership."

ROFL.

Yeah, the US heavily regulates land ownership but they do not regulate who is doing the buying!

[bkkjames]

Ministry land bill takes aim at foreigners

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2227...m-at-foreigners

"The bill will also address land ownership by foreigners who marry Thais"

This looks like opening a can of worms .

I don't see how this could ever go anywhere unless they simply made it illegal for Thais married to farang to own land. How do they prove that someone is being used as a proxy/nominee? How do you define those terms?

Farang marries Thai. They buy land. Why would that sometimes be Ok and sometimes be illegal? It has to be either one or the other.

Regarding how to define things Don, if I had to guess if would be something like this.

A particularly lucrative looking farming business is established with all the infrastructure put in place and running smoothly. Pressure is placed on so-called nominee to confess that yes its true. Lucrative looking farming business with all the infrastructure in place and running smoothly is confiscated for violation of law of somekind.

Not sure if this is how it happens though - but as they say on mythbusters - plausible.

[oldsparrow]

I can't remember what grade but I first heard of the sign "No dog and Chinese are allowed" in school class.

How old are you? You heard about the sign in school as a child as a historical anecdote or the sign was actually hanging? Interesting.

30++, it was a historical anecdote.

[oldsparrow]

I can't remember what grade but I first heard of the sign "No dog and Chinese are allowed" in school class.

...

Think my post is misleading. It's historical anecdote in Thai school class alright but it the story of what happened in China.

[thaihome]

....Regarding how to define things Don, if I had to guess if would be something like this.

A particularly lucrative looking farming business is established with all the infrastructure put in place and running smoothly. Pressure is placed on so-called nominee to confess that yes its true. Lucrative looking farming business with all the infrastructure in place and running smoothly is confiscated for violation of law of somekind.

Not sure if this is how it happens though - but as they say on mythbusters - plausible.

Only plausible if you are a paranoid farang. "confiscated for violation of law of somekind" what a bunch of bullshit...

TH