Uk Ilr Settlement - Post Settlement Public Funds

[aubutie]

I am currently applying for ILR settlement for me wife, we have a one year old baby, a UK citizen, I am providing proof that we can live without recourse to Public Funds, part of which is the surrender value of an Insurance policy for a not inconsiderable amount

If after the visa has been granted we hard hard times, (i am currently employed on a reasonable UK salary) which given the current economic uncertainty is possible, what then, Is the Visa stipulation that we must not request public funds and use our savings, or we shouldn't but we can, I cant find anywhere where this is clear, anyone know of any government documentation.

I suppose what i am asking is what are the precise rules for what someone is entitled to, after the Visa has been granted and for how long are these in force until the applicant can have the same unreserved 'benefit rights' as a UK citizen

NB just so you know I have worked my test*cles pff for 30 years in the UK, and paid a fair bit of tax, I am not looking from a handout from anybody, however I/we also dont want to be what I would consider unfairly discrimated against by the goverment, so I would like to get a clear understanding of the position post settlement

[plachon]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the rules over this or you personally are going to be excluded from state benefits, should you be unlucky enough to be made redundant at some point in the future. The immigration rules are designed to try and avoid people entering the country with the specific intention of claiming benefits and are not strictly applied in the case of foreign spouses of British nationals who are otherwise upstanding citizens and contributing to the country positively.

For example, you and your wife are entitled to state benefits already such as Child Benefit for your kid, Working Tax Credit and Child Credit, should you be on low enough wages to qualify. The ILR is based on your current situation in any case, and no consideration is made about future hypothetical scenarios.

So my advice is - don't worry too much about this and just make sure you have all the supporting documents and fill out the form correctly for your present application.

My concern is their slowness in returning my passport, despite written and verbal requests to return it asap. If I had known this would be the case, I'd have sent my birth certificate instead, which I believe is an alternative option.

[7by7]

You, of course, can claim any state benefits to which you may be entitled.

Once your wife has ILR then she can do the same.

[aubutie]

You, of course, can claim any state benefits to which you may be entitled.

Once your wife has ILR then she can do the same.

Hi thanks, I understand the above, my question is more to do with what state benefits my wife will be entitled to, or perhaps more specifically excluded from after the ILR has been granted (under the assumption that moment it will be, if noty I have a completely fifferent set of problems to deal with)

It seems odd for the government to expect you to prove that you can live without recourse to public funds, you then prove it, they grant the visa, and then you do require public funds, without the government trying to do something about it!, for example my wife is currently looking for a job, if she does not get one is she entitled to Job Seekers allowance the day after the visa is granted

I am trying to get some form of general clarification on what happens under this kind of circumstance so that I know where we will stand post visa, preferably documented proof, can't find any at moment.

many thanks

[7by7]

You, of course, can claim any state benefits to which you may be entitled.

Once your wife has ILR then she can do the same.

Hi thanks, I understand the above, my question is more to do with what state benefits my wife will be entitled to, or perhaps more specifically excluded from after the ILR has been granted

If you look at her current visa you will see that it is endorsed "No recourse to public funds." When she recieves her ILR you will see that the ILR vignette is not so endorsed.

This means that once she has ILR she can claim the same public funds as you can.

It seems odd for the government to expect you to prove that you can live without recourse to public funds, you then prove it, they grant the visa, and then you do require public funds, without the government trying to do something about it!, for example my wife is currently looking for a job, if she does not get one is she entitled to Job Seekers allowance the day after the visa is granted

The rule is that one cannot claim public funds, with certain exceptions, whilst qualifying for ILR, but once you have it then you can claim.

Your wife, once she has ILR, can claim JSA; whether she gets it or not depends on certain factors, e.g. has she worked before and paid NI contributions (Contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance); if not, how much do you earn, what savings do you both have (Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance).

See here.

[the scouser]

Your wife, once she has ILR, can claim JSA; ...

Contributions-based JSA is not considered to be a public fund. Therefore, if aubutie's wife has paid sufficient contributions, she can legitimately receive JSA without holding ILR.

What are public funds.

Scouse.

[nigelandjan]

I am currently applying for ILR settlement for me wife, we have a one year old baby, a UK citizen, I am providing proof that we can live without recourse to Public Funds, part of which is the surrender value of an Insurance policy for a not inconsiderable amount

If after the visa has been granted we hard hard times, (i am currently employed on a reasonable UK salary) which given the current economic uncertainty is possible, what then, Is the Visa stipulation that we must not request public funds and use our savings, or we shouldn't but we can, I cant find anywhere where this is clear, anyone know of any government documentation.

I suppose what i am asking is what are the precise rules for what someone is entitled to, after the Visa has been granted and for how long are these in force until the applicant can have the same unreserved 'benefit rights' as a UK citizen

NB just so you know I have worked my test*cles pff for 30 years in the UK, and paid a fair bit of tax, I am not looking from a handout from anybody, however I/we also dont want to be what I would consider unfairly discrimated against by the goverment, so I would like to get a clear understanding of the position post settlement

Good post mate same concerns as us ,,were in the same boat, you aint alone.

Just incase we do have a problem and the missus has to claim later , she is learning Polish now and Ive bought her a ton of whitening powder,,,,then we will be entitled to claim for everything ,,,,,even the family back in the land of fake smiles 555555555

[pingit]

Hmmmm very interesting this, because we have a son and miss pingit it now has her settlement visa. I believe the cut of point for recieving child tax credits is around 50 K for a house income. I applied for this before miss pingit had recieved her settlement visa, and was sent a letter back saying that we were not entitled to it, as miss pingit it is subject to an immigration matter? Then the letter said that to recieve child tax credits the general rule was that you lived in this country. Well we do live here?? I just took it that she would not be entitled to this under the no recourse to public fund rule. ??

Do you guys think I should get back to them? Im guessing now that this child tax credit is NOT considered a public fund.

oh, but now I have read that child tax credit IS a public fund from the link in 7by7's post.??

[7by7]

A person who is subject to immigration control and whose visa is endorsed "No recourse to public funds" cannot claim child benefit nor tax credits; but if their spouse is not subject to immigration control, e.g. a British citizen, then said spouse can claim both. In the case of tax credits a married couple has to claim jointly, so even if one partner is otherwise unable to claim public funds, a joint tax credit claim is allowed.

See this leaflet.

[pingit]

A person who is subject to immigration control and whose visa is endorsed "No recourse to public funds" cannot claim child benefit nor tax credits; but if their spouse is not subject to immigration control, e.g. a British citizen, then said spouse can claim both. In the case of tax credits a married couple has to claim jointly, so even if one partner is otherwise unable to claim public funds, a joint tax credit claim is allowed.

See this leaflet.

Thanks alot 7by7.... you know your stuff my friend... !

[pingit]

A person who is subject to immigration control and whose visa is endorsed "No recourse to public funds" cannot claim child benefit nor tax credits; but if their spouse is not subject to immigration control, e.g. a British citizen, then said spouse can claim both. In the case of tax credits a married couple has to claim jointly, so even if one partner is otherwise unable to claim public funds, a joint tax credit claim is allowed.

See this leaflet.

Thanks alot 7by7.... you know your stuff my friend... !

So... if applying for child tax credits, 7by7, one should not be affected when then applying for ILR later on in 2 years time. And this is because the spouse/partner, as a UK CITIZEN, are eligible for these credits? is this correct??? It would be a terrible mistake if someone cost themselves ILR because of a few bucks !

Anyhow, I guess if someone was applying and they weren't eligible ( for example they applied not knowing that they are allowed to or not ) simply they would not receive the credits right? The HM Rev & Customs would determine this on looking at the application? Or do they sometimes make mistakes and give it to people who are not supposed to receive it due to " no recourse of public funds" ??

[ArranP]

I am currently applying for ILR settlement for me wife, we have a one year old baby, a UK citizen, I am providing proof that we can live without recourse to Public Funds, part of which is the surrender value of an Insurance policy for a not inconsiderable amount

If after the visa has been granted we hard hard times, (i am currently employed on a reasonable UK salary) which given the current economic uncertainty is possible, what then, Is the Visa stipulation that we must not request public funds and use our savings, or we shouldn't but we can, I cant find anywhere where this is clear, anyone know of any government documentation.

I suppose what i am asking is what are the precise rules for what someone is entitled to, after the Visa has been granted and for how long are these in force until the applicant can have the same unreserved 'benefit rights' as a UK citizen

NB just so you know I have worked my test*cles pff for 30 years in the UK, and paid a fair bit of tax, I am not looking from a handout from anybody, however I/we also dont want to be what I would consider unfairly discrimated against by the goverment, so I would like to get a clear understanding of the position post settlement

Good post mate same concerns as us ,,were in the same boat, you aint alone.

Just incase we do have a problem and the missus has to claim later , she is learning Polish now and Ive bought her a ton of whitening powder,,,,then we will be entitled to claim for everything ,,,,,even the family back in the land of fake smiles 555555555

and don't forget the 10% discount at tesco.... :-)

[Brigante7]

A little bit of advice, to all guys with a Thai wife, that I was giving in the jobcentre of all places, if you have a child and are claiming child benefit, when your wife gets her ILR visa transfer the child benefit in to her name (It takes about 4 months but wil be backdated) and it will help towards her stamp for her pension, I've just done it for my wife who although was working wasn't earning enough to pay tax or NI.

Brigante7.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Brigante7

[nigelandjan]

A little bit of advice, to all guys with a Thai wife, that I was giving in the jobcentre of all places, if you have a child and are claiming child benefit, when your wife gets her ILR visa transfer the child benefit in to her name (It takes about 4 months but wil be backdated) and it will help towards her stamp for her pension, I've just done it for my wife who although was working wasn't earning enough to pay tax or NI.

Brigante7.

Thats a good tip mate although in our case barring any slip ups , child beneifit will not apply to us ,its nice to see that as well as our eastern block friends ?? Thais a also to be allowed it.

[7by7]

So... if applying for child tax credits, 7by7, one should not be affected when then applying for ILR later on in 2 years time. And this is because the spouse/partner, as a UK CITIZEN, are eligible for these credits? is this correct???

This is correct, a joint claim made with a spouse who is a British citizen, or otherwise eligible to claim ion their own right, is allowed under the rules and will not adversely effect an ILR application.

Indeed, many couples use the letter granting them tax credits as part of the evidence of them living together in the ILR application!!

[pingit]

So... if applying for child tax credits, 7by7, one should not be affected when then applying for ILR later on in 2 years time. And this is because the spouse/partner, as a UK CITIZEN, are eligible for these credits? is this correct???

This is correct, a joint claim made with a spouse who is a British citizen, or otherwise eligible to claim ion their own right, is allowed under the rules and will not adversely effect an ILR application.

Indeed, many couples use the letter granting them tax credits as part of the evidence of them living together in the ILR application!!

Hi 7by7,

just a quick question about this? hmmmm , so when applying for the child tax credits, should people include the income details of their partner from Thailand who is now settled in the UK and working, or should it be a single application of the Uk resident who is eligible? Just wondering about that, because if you put in the details of the settlement visa applicant, aren't they then applying to use public funds along side their UK partner/spouse? Which might then affect ILR. I know they are allowed to apply using that rule we talked about earlier, but should their income be used in the application to the inland revenue?

Thanks in advance !

[Mercury]

The difference between a single claimant and a joint claimant is £36.65 per week (£100.95-64.30). There is another theoretical benefit in terms of Council Tax (single person's 25% discount would not be allowable but the whole 100% would be claimable, thus rendering a 25% recourse to public funds).

You can check at http://www.entitledto.co.uk/

Benefits claims ask whether the partner is subject to immigration control.

[7by7]

Pingit,

I would strongly advise against telling lies to the Inland Revenue! If your partner is working then you should say so and include their income details on the form.

From the Home Office leaflet

Do any exceptions apply to benefits?

In most cases you will not be able to claim any of the benefits or tax credits that count as public funds. However, for some funds there are exceptions to this. If you receive a fund under one of these exceptions, it will not count as recourse to public funds.

The most common exceptions are listed below

b ) My partner is allowed to claim tax credits - can I claim them too?

Claims for child and working tax credits are assessed jointly. If you are living with a spouse or partner who is allowed to claim tax credits, your name may be included in the claim.

Mercury,

Does not the single occupant discount on council tax cease immediately another person moves into the property, whether that person is working or not?

Edited August 25, 2009 by 7by7

[Mercury]

Mercury,

Does not the single occupant discount on council tax cease immediately another person moves into the property, whether that person is working or not?

I would suspect so but I could perhaps also argue that someone who is subject to immigration control and is therefore just a temporary visitor, is not actually living in the property but rather just visiting, as if on a holiday or trip to see family.

I any case, the numbers are quite small. If your Council Tax bill was £1200 per year and the partner was there for 6 months, then the theoretical liability would be 1200*.25/2=150.

There is a case where the family of a resident were denied access to the UK (at appeal) because the income of the resident was less than the level of state benefits which would be awarded to a UK family who were not subject to immigration control. The test was not that he lived frugally, but rather that he could not provide this minimum standard, even though there is no financial standard mentioned by specific reference in the immigration regulations.

In assessing the difference, benefits or income wise between the UK resident and the proposed visa applicant, and in order to get past this appeal court finding, there should be funds or income over and above the difference between the amount of benefits a couple would receive versus those benefits the single person would be entitled to claim. Specifically, the additional income support / JSA amount is £36.65 per week as per my previous post. If they were being pedantic, they could claim a Council Tax benefit which, in the simple example above, would be £150 for 6 months or about £6 per week. Thus, it is possible to work out how much cash would need to be shown in a lump sum to equate to the weekly difference. If the applicants had that amount, then the immigration officer could not refuse entry or refuse a visa on the grounds of insufficient income. Without those funds, the applicant could fall foul of the appeal court findings.

[aliscally]

Thanks everyone. very useful info.

Just about to submit my application... i might get some good sleep after reading this... but then again we'll be in suspense waiting for a decision from the BIA. I suppose that's a topic for another thread.

good look to you all!!!

[7by7]

Mercury,

Does not the single occupant discount on council tax cease immediately another person moves into the property, whether that person is working or not?

I would suspect so but I could perhaps also argue that someone who is subject to immigration control and is therefore just a temporary visitor, is not actually living in the property but rather just visiting, as if on a holiday or trip to see family.

You may argue, but I suspect that you would lose as even though a person living in the UK with a settlement visa, FLR etc. is subject to immigration control, they are regarded as being in the UK for a settled purpose; i.e. resident.

Nice one for the lawyers to fight over; but I wouldn't want to be paying their fees!

There is a case where the family of a resident were denied access to the UK (at appeal) because the income of the resident was less than the level of state benefits which would be awarded to a UK family who were not subject to immigration control. The test was not that he lived frugally, but rather that he could not provide this minimum standard, even though there is no financial standard mentioned by specific reference in the immigration regulations.

Not in the immigration rules, correct. However, the guidance to ECOs does mention it

MAA4 Maintenance: General requirements There is no explicit minimum figure for what represents sufficient maintenance. If dependants of the main applicant are going to accompany him / her to the United Kingdom, resources must be available for the whole family unit to be maintained.

The ECO should bear in mind the position taken by the UK Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (UKAIT):

In 2006, the UKAIT in UKAIT 00065 KA and Others (Pakistan), strongly suggested that it would not be appropriate to have immigrant families existing on resources that were less than the Income Support level for a British family of that size.

More information is available on the British & Irish Legal Information Institute website (BAILII)

If it is more likely than not that the total amount that the applicant and sponsor will have to live on will be below what the income support level would be for a British family of that size, then it may be appropriate to refuse the application on maintenance and accommodation grounds.

[waz9235]

Hi all, this has got me abit worried now.

Me and my wife have a 5 month old baby, we are already claiming child benefit under my name and we recently applied for child tax credits. when i spoke to the helpline about filling in the application form they said it was compulsory to fill in a joint application as we are married.

I did this and put my wife down as unemployed, which she is. We never received any confirmation that the application was successfull and to my surprise found £1,148.00 sitting in my bank last week stating 'working tax credit'. I assumed the application had been successfull and thought nothing of it. Then, an even bigger surprise was checking my wifes bank account and seeing £800.00 stating working tax credit also.

I explained to them on the phone that my wife is subject to immigration control, she currently has settlement for 2yrs, I filled the form in exactly as they told me to and they told me they would work all the figures out for me.

There has obviously been a mistake made and im going to phone them first thing monday, I just hope this doesnt affect her application for ILR as we have always done everything by the book.

Regards

Waz

[the scouser]

Providing you didn't tell porkies on the application form, the money's all yours and mine's a pint of Stella.

Scouse.

[waz9235]

we never told any porkies thats for sure. just one more thing scouse, with us having a baby who is a uk citizen is there a possibility that me wife is exempt from ESOL or KOL. she still has 1yr 3mnths remaiing on her visa.

Regards

p.s. thanks for the speedy response.

[the scouser]

If I answer your second question, that'll be 2 pints of Stella.

Unfortunately, your wife still needs to pass either an ESOL with Citizenship course, and moving up a level, or the Life in the UK test.

Scouse.

[stament]

Excellent post and great contributions.