Calling All Nutritionist (amateur Or Professional)

[Drew Aitch]

What's in a Meal!

Hi folks.

I'm sure this must have been covered in various threads over the months and years, but if we could make a fresh appeal for information from those in the know, it would be very useful.

A lot of people (meaning foreigners) in Thailand are constantly going on to me about how healthy Thai food is, but I'm sure there are heaps of sugars and salts thrown into every meal along with the various oils and unknown powders that get added etc

I like to eat out at least once a day and to be honest I love Thai food. But that said, I could lose more weight when coupled with regular exercise in the UK feasting on a huge plates of meats, potatoes, and fresh vegetables, than I've ever been able to do in Thailand, and hey, I'm a regular Doi walker and cyclist.

The problem is this; it's almost impossible to know what going into (or not) a lot of the grub that's served up by local cooks. So I was wondering if any of you health conscious folks out there might be able to string up a menu of dishes that are healthy, nutritious, and reasonably low in sugars and salts. I'm not a health fanatic by any stretch of the imagination, but it would be nice to be able to monitor what goes down the gullet with a little more knowledge and accuracy – in the name of healthy living!

Thanks in advance

Aitch

Edited August 11, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[NancyL]

All the ingredients you need for healthy eating are right at hand -- walk down just about any street and you'll find fresh fruits and veggies for sale. Combine that with some brown rice (not hard to find) and a litle lean meat (like the Thai pork or chicken), cook in a little broth and you have a healthy meal. Yes, I've found you can't re-educate street cooks about using broth instead of oil and they'll hold the salt, but add soy sauce. The solution is to cook your own grub.

[Drew Aitch]

The solution is to cook your own grub.

Hi Nancy and thanks for your feedback

I am aware that it's possible to go shopping for fresh fruit and veg at local markets, but my main point is that part of my daily regime is to meet friends for brunch, lunch, or dinner on a daily basis. In fact my main meal of the day is also the social event of the day as i catch up with a few mates and chew the fat so to speak It's nice to eat out

I was kind of wondering if there are certain tasty Thai dishes that some of you might know the ingredients of as being good balanced meals. Or certain restaurants even that are renown for cooking up meals not laden with sugars, salts, and bad fats. A lot of people think that anything vegetarian is super healthy, but I don't think that by removing meats from the plate necessary equates to a lean, filling, and balanced meal.

It's probably a daft topic to start really, as i'm sure it's probably difficult to know what really goes into Thai dishes, unless as you say, we cook the buggers ourselves

Cheers

Aitch

[NancyL]

I know what you mean. I eat out at least once a day and have learned to stay away from anything with the word "curry" in the description. That seems to be a Thai code word for coconut. I love a good Indian curry (tomato, not coconut-based) and make that at home since all the Indian restuarants here seem to use excessive amounts of oil.

I also avoid shellfish and anything involving eggs because of cholestrol. There are enough "hidden" eggs in Thai cooking that I don't need to order dishes specifically made from eggs. I figure I meet my allotment of three eggs per week without knowing it just because I eat 7 - 10 meals per week in a restuarant. I don't know how someone with a real egg allergy could survive here eating cheap (and not so cheap) restuarant meals.

As much as I love shellfish (specifically squid), I try to limit myself to one meal per week because of cholestrol. Also, I think twice about ordering it in a restuarant after a Thai language teacher told me it's usually treated with foramil (formaldahyde in US vocabulary) here and often restaurants don't bother to rinse the shellfish before cooking. I always rinse any meat/fish/shellfish in potable water before I cook it. Some of it just looks too good to be true. It had to have some chemical help to stay looking that good.

[runker]

Yes, it seems the Thais really love their cooking oil. I've been trying for years to convince my wife that she doesn't need all that oil (in a nonstick pan) to fry it. Another issue is portion size too, I've taken control of scooping out the rice just so we aren't served triple portions. It would be nice if someone came up with a cook book on healthy Thai cooking.

[getgoin]

Yes, it seems the Thais really love their cooking oil. I've been trying for years to convince my wife that she doesn't need all that oil (in a nonstick pan) to fry it. Another issue is portion size too, I've taken control of scooping out the rice just so we aren't served triple portions. It would be nice if someone came up with a cook book on healthy Thai cooking.

I have a cook book on healthy Thai cooking. It's was written and published in the US.

I have been saying this for years, that because of the palm oil, msg and sodium used in most Thai cooking, eating Thai food is not as healthy as it is perceived to be. Palm oil is more saturated than beef fat. Only butter is more saturated than palm oil. Many restaurants use palm oil, not just Thai restaurants, because it is cheaper than the alternatives.

Protein is another factor. Any trip to the market would be enough to show someone that anything ground, chicken, pork, beef, shrimp or fish should be avoided. The proper level of hygiene is non existant and it is virtually impossible to know where a particular restaurant is getting their pork for pat krapao from.

So to get back to your question, it is probably more a reflection in general cooking style and ingredients at a restaurant rather than a few special dishes. Even a lot of the steamed mud fish dishes have a sauce made with msg and palm oil.

Recently, my wife took a Thai cooking class, not the 1-3 day affair, but a real cooking school that trains Thai chefs. The very first day they didn't go over the basics of Thai cooking, ingredients or rice but they talked at length about how great msg was and how it was derived. From there the class went downhill if that is possible. This is a school that trains hundreds of Thai chefs a year and issues a certificate so they can get jobs overseas.

It was interesting to see the special in CityLife about the local eateries and small Thai restaurants, hole in the walls. While reading it I could not help but think that there were probably only a few good and healthy locations and none were catagorized as using no msg or using healthy monounsaturated oils or polyunsaturated oils. I would have prefered the top 10-20 healthy Thai restaurants in Chiang Mai or 20 noodle stalls that don't use msg or soup base with msg.

[Drew Aitch]

That was a really interesting post getgoin. I thought there would be some folks here that knew a thing or 2 about tasty Thai food. Btw, what is msg?

I'm no medical authority and most things i know anything about i've read somewhere. That said, there's a lot of conflicting evidence around too by so called experts, not to mention a plethora of misinformation in some books and online publications. It's not always easy to know what the best advice is!!!

It used to be said that we are what we eat. Then it was said that we are what our parents ate. And now they are saying (source: BBC documentary), that we are what our grandparents ate. But even if there is a knock-on affect from previous generations, it doesn't mean to say that individuals can't improver their health, fitness, and general wellbeing now, by adopting a healthier lifestyle and thus breaking the mould so to speak.

Cancers, for example, thrive most when a person has multiple nutritional deficiencies as a result of perhaps genetic, environmental, food and lifestyle factors. So the main reason i brought the topic up was to see if it was more possible to monitor how and where to make sure that adequate nutrition was consumed while living here in Chiang Mai. The sugar issue particularly concerns me because it seems to get thrown into almost every dish here. In recent years, sugar has been identified as a cancer-feeder (The Johns Hopkins Report).

Of course, there are numerous other issues and health concerns regarding the consumption of bad foods, or good grub with poor ingredients, and the older one gets, the more important it is to take good care of ourselves.

Anyway, it's quite an interesting topic, but i don't think it's going to be possible to really monitor what is consumed when out and about in Chiang Mai, and perhaps the only compromise will be as NancyL suggests, which is to cook a few balanced meals a week from home.

Cheers

Aitch

Edited August 12, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[Oneman]

A lot of people (meaning foreigners) in Thailand are constantly going on to me about how healthy Thai food is, but I'm sure there are heaps of sugars and salts thrown into every meal along with the various oils and unknown powders that get added etc ...

The problem is this; it's almost impossible to know what going into (or not) a lot of the grub that's served up by local cooks.

Valuable topic.

Thank you, Aitch, for starting it.

"Unknown" is my observation about Thai foods, too.

I have been saying this for years, that because of the palm oil, msg and sodium used in most Thai cooking, eating Thai food is not as healthy as it is perceived to be. ... Many restaurants use palm oil, not just Thai restaurants, because it is cheaper than the alternatives. ... Any trip to the market would be enough to show someone that anything ground, chicken, pork, beef, shrimp or fish should be avoided. The proper level of hygiene is non existant ... sauce made with msg and palm oil. ... I would have prefered the top 10-20 healthy Thai restaurants in Chiang Mai or 20 noodle stalls that don't use msg or soup base with msg.

Many useful observations from "GetGoin".

Everything I've seen confirms what he wrote above.

Many times I've eaten in the small, cook-to-order, restaurants, where you can see the cook.

Observations in such places convinced me to learn to cook and start preparing most of my own food.

Not clean.

Not careful with food handling -- such as not cleaning the wood board after chopping pork or chicken.

Often spoiled food -- especially expensive ingredients like shrimp.

I hired one of the cooks from a nice, farang-style restaurant, to come in and teach me.

(Everybody on this list would know the restaurant, but I won't say.)

First, I asked her to take me to the local market and show me where and how she buys ingredients for her restaurant, and to buy ingredients for my cooking lessons.

Since that experience -- following her around the wet market -- I haven't been back to eat at that restaurant, even though the breakfasts there are very delicious.

I've also asked several other Thai women -- cooks -- to come in to teach me in my kitchen.

And I've had them take me to go shopping, as above, but this time I specified TOPS or Rimping supermarkets, not the wet market.

Even at TOPS and Rimping, I've been appalled at how every one of them selects for cheapest price, with no concern for freshness or quality.

And they -- my cook/teachers -- have been appalled at how much money I spend to get quality ingredients.

Further, I've had to make a point of asking them to wash their hands before they start preparing the food.

As a result of those observations -- up close and personal with Thai cooks, whom I am paying to teach me -- I now rarely eat out in restaurants here.

Sometimes, yes -- a few times a month -- but not every day as I used to do.

And when I do go out to eat now, it is usually to a clean, farang-managed restaurant, where I order something like fish-and-chips, a steak, or lasagna.

As a result:

I used to have frequent skin irritations; itching -- now all cleared up.

I used to have trouble sleeping at night -- now few problems, unless I eat out, then the sleeplessness returns.

I used to crave everyday lots of sweet snacks and candy -- now, very little craving for sweets.

I wanted to eat and eat, even when I was full -- now, eat less, and weight is starting to go down.

Those who are familiar will recognize many of those symptoms caused by too much sugar and MSG.

Watching Thai cooks, I've seen how they use sugar and MSG (white powders) with abandon.

Even soy sauce, fish sauce, and oyster sauce contain MSG in large amounts.

What a shame, eh?

Thai food is so tasty and so tempting.

But I've learned that my health is better if I eat it sparingly.

I hope for more observations on this topic.

And since MSG is a very common seasoning in almost all Thai food, here are some links with more information:

http://www.msgtruth.org/

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/II.WhereIsMSG.html

http://www.msgmyth.com/

http://www.mindfully.org/Health/2008/MSG-N...ender5mar08.htm

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Oneman

[Drew Aitch]

Good post Oneman, thanks for your contribution.

To be fair to Thailand, I was never certain what went into a lot of the foods back home which were dished up in restaurants and cheap eateries. There was a big scandal uncovered once where chicken parts which were graded 'Not Fit for Human Consumption' where scooped up by a tractor's bucket, washed and tided up, and then sold on to the major supermarkets at vastly reduced prices when compared to the prime cuts of meats. Went of for years apparently!

But then again, we all know that hygiene standards are generally pretty strict in western countries, plus it's far easier to control what we consume on a day to day basis. And also, not too many of us in Europe would eat out every single day of the week unless we were lonely, loaded, or both! So either way the concerns weren't so great for most folks.

This isn't a thread to put down Thai food or Thai cooks, but more something to raise a little awareness so that i and others interested in reading it can perhaps make better informed decisions when eating in Chiang Mai specifically, and Thailand generally.

There have certainly been some eye opening responses so far, and the short life of this thread has been an education in itself.

Aitch

[newbie001]

Steamed and/or grilled fish are pretty safe and healthy. Stay away from most sauces and dips because they are laden with MSG and sugar to balance the saltyness.

Most Northern Curries are a healthy alternative to the more central Thai curries. They don't use coconut milk or loads of sugar. They are more like soups loaded with herbs and spices, such as Gaeng Som, Gaen Kah, etc.

Even most vegetarian shops aren't that healthy. They still use palm oil and lots of sugar to balance the fish sauce.

As stated before most of the cheap stalls use palm oil, but some of the better places use soybean oil.

I think it is usually safer and better to eat home.

[getgoin]

I like to eat out. I have noticed that in the last 20 or so years of coming to Chiang Mai and Thailand that the food has not gotten better but that it has become generic. Even the traditional recipes have been replaced with oyster sauce or soy sauce and sugar in every dish. MSG, sugar and cheap ingredients have become the norm. Sweet chili sauce is dumped directly from the bottle unless, like at some chicken stalls, they simply water it down. Thai food has become muddled with sweet peppers, onions and a small amount of protein. There are some inspiring dishes at some inspired restaurants but the majority of the Thai restaurants are owned by owners who hire cooks for basic wages and expect some sort of transformation or miracle to happen with the food.

While there has been a renaissance of foods and cuisines in many countries, Thailand has been content to sit back with the endless bowls of cheap noodles, all you can eat pork fat, plastic tables and hole in the wall eateries and watch the innovation pass them by. Foodies still love Thai food but only for the idea of Thai food. Fresh vegetables and herbs cooked with little oil and a bit of lean meat. Except for at a few restaurants the next wave for Thai food has yet to happen. The restaurants run by celebrity Thai chefs or just good cooks who search the market for ingredients and who create special dishes based upon the classics just does not exist in Chiang Mai.

That is not to say that there are not some great cooks at the local eateries or that good, decent Thai food is not prepared at some restaurants around town. When asking about where there is good healthy Thai food in town we should not be left scratching our heads. I know of a couple of good Thai restaurants but I can't say that I know of any great ones.

[Thakkar]

Oneman, I was with you till the MSG bashing.

True, some people are sensitive to MSG and suffer mild, temporary reactions. Such people should avoid MSG. On the whole, though, MSG gets a bad rap. According to the Mayo Clinic, it's reasonably safe:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/monosodiu...utamate/AN01251

I do agree however that it's best to stick to natural foods whenever possible. Sadly, that means avoiding many resteraunts and all fast food outlets.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with Thakkar on the MSG bashing. If you are sensitive to it, avoid it, but most people are not.

IT MAKES FOOD TASTE BETTER and nothing is wrong with that.

[Chunkton]

I agree with Thakkar on the MSG bashing. If you are sensitive to it, avoid it, but most people are not.

IT MAKES FOOD TASTE BETTER and nothing is wrong with that.

Or perhaps it just makes poorly prepared food without fresh quality ingredients taste better? And it is doing so artificially, maybe then there is something wrong with that? I suppose you would be happy with artificially tenderized cheap meat rather than a quality cut?

Edited August 12, 2009 by Chunkton

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Most of my meals we cook at home so we use good oil, not too much salt and no sugar. Most vegetables come from the Doi Kham store so are pesticide controlled. I do use a bit of MSG (Ros Dee seasoning) because there's nothing wrong with it.

Food from markets, street stalls and restaurants of course doesn't meet those standards, but a for a couple meals a week I'm not that bothered.

It's easy to forget sometimes but there ARE many things that show Thailand isn't a First World kind of place, and this is one of them. ('Safety' in general is another. Accountability another. 'Standards' of any type and kind. And so on. Note that Im not complaining, you get a whole lot of good with the bad, and I made my choice. )

Edited August 12, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ulysses G.]

MSG is not artificial it is a natural chemical found in many foods:

Everything You Need To Know About Glutamate And Monosodium Glutamate January 1997

Eating is one of life's pleasures. Taste and flavor are important to enjoying food. Think about a bowl of hot pasta with tomato sauce and parmesan cheese, a freshly grilled steak with a rich mushroom sauce, or stir-fried seafood and chicken with crisp vegetables in a savory sauce. These subtle, delicate flavors result from centuries of culinary tradition, including careful attention to ingredients and preparation. In all of these dishes, glutamate is one of the major food components that provides flavor. What is Glutamate?

Glutamate is an amino acid, found in all protein-containing foods. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. This amino acid is one of the most abundant and important components of proteins. Glutamate occurs naturally in protein-containing foods such as cheese, milk, mushrooms, meat, fish, and many vegetables. Glutamate is also produced by the human body and is vital for metabolism and brain function.

What is Monosodium Glutamate?

Monosodium glutamate, or MSG, is the sodium salt of glutamate. When MSG is added to foods, it provides a similar flavoring function as the glutamate that occurs naturally in food. MSG is comprised of nothing more than water, sodium and glutamate.

Why is MSG used?

MSG is a flavor enhancer that has been used effectively to bring out the best taste in foods, emphasizing natural flavors. Many researchers also believe that MSG imparts a fifth taste, independent of the four basic tastes of sweet, sour, salty and bitter. This taste, called "umami" in Japan, is described by Americans as savory. Examples of each of these tastes are: Sweet - Sugar, Bitter - Coffee, Savory - Tomato, Sour - Lemon, Salt - Anchovy

How is MSG made?

In the early 1900s, MSG was extracted from natural protein-rich foods such as seaweed. Today, MSG is made from starch, corn sugar or molasses from sugar cane or sugar beets. MSG is produced by a natural fermentation process that has been used for centuries to make such common foods as beer, vinegar and yogurt.

How are Glutamate and MSG handled by the body?

The human body treats glutamate that is added to foods in the form of MSG the same as the natural glutamate found in food. For instance, the body does not distinguish between free glutamate from tomatoes, cheese or mushrooms and the glutamate from MSG added to foods. Glutamate is glutamate, whether naturally present or from MSG.

Glutamate Contents of Foods

Food Size

Serving Glutamate

(g/serving)Tomato juice1 cup0.827Tomato3 slices0.339Meat loaf dinner9 oz.0.189Human breast milk1 cup0.176Mushrooms1/4 cup0.094Parmesan cheese2 Tbsp0.047Corn1/2 cup0.031Peas1/2 cup0.024Cow's milk1 cup0.016Canned tuna (in water)1/2 can0.008

Source: U.S. Food and Drug Administration

Does Glutamate or MSG improve flavors in all foods?

The natural flavor-enhancing levels of glutamate in food varies greatly, but is high in foods such as tomatoes, mushrooms and parmesan cheese. MSG enhances many but not all food flavors through the interaction between glutamate and other flavors. It works well with a variety of foods including meats, poultry, seafood and many vegetables. It is used to enhance the flavor of some soups, stews, meat-based sauces and snack foods. MSG harmonizes well with salty and sour tastes, but does little for sweet foods such as cakes, pastries or candies.

MSG can not improve bad-tasting food or make up for bad cooking. It does not allow a cook to substitute low-quality for high-quality ingredients in a recipe, and does not tenderize meat. It just makes good food taste better.

How is MSG used in the home?

When you buy MSG in the grocery store, you will find suggested uses on the container label. MSG is generally added to foods before or during cooking. As a general guideline, about half a teaspoon of MSG per pound of meat or four to six servings of vegetables should be sufficient. Once the proper amount is used, adding more contributes little to food flavors.

How much Glutamate do people consume?

The average American consumes about 11 grams of glutamate per day from natural protein sources and less than 1 gram of glutamate per day from MSG. This amount of added MSG is the same as adding 1 to 1.5 ounces of parmesan cheese. In contrast, the human body creates about 50 grams of glutamate daily for use as a vital component of metabolism.

Is MSG high in sodium?

No. MSG contains only one-third the amount of sodium as table salt (13 percent vs. 40 percent) and is used in much smaller amounts. When used in combination with a small amount of table salt, MSG can help reduce the total amount of sodium in a recipe by 20 to 40 percent, while maintaining an enhanced flavor.

Are people sensitive to MSG?

MSG is not an allergen, according to the American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has found no evidence to suggest any long-term, serious health consequences from consuming MSG. It is possible that some people might be sensitive to MSG, just as to many other foods and food ingredients. There are some reports that mild, temporary reactions to MSG may occur in a small portion of the population, based on tests with a large dose of MSG in the absence of food.

If you have questions about food sensitivities or allergies, contact a board-certified allergist or your personal physician.

Is MSG safe?

Yes. MSG is one of the most extensively researched substances in the food supply. Numerous international scientific evaluations have been undertaken over many years, involving hundreds of studies. The United States and other governments worldwide support the safety of MSG as used in foods.

MSG Safety

• U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA): Designates MSG as safe (Generally Recognized as Safe/GRAS), with common ingredients such as salt and baking powder. (1958)
  
• National Academy of Sciences: Confirms the safety of MSG as a food ingredient. (1979)
  
• Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives of the United Nations World Health and Food and Agricultural Organizations: Designates MSG as safe and places it in its safest category for food additives. (1988)
  
• European Community's Scientific Committee for Food: Confirms MSG safety. (1991)
  
• American Medical Association: Concludes that MSG is safe, at normal consumption levels in the diet. (1992)
  
• FDA: Reaffirms MSG safety based upon a report from the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology. (1995)
  

Is MSG safe for children?

Yes. Infants, including premature babies, metabolize glutamate the same as adults. Research has shown that newborn infants are able to detect and prefer the taste of glutamate. Glutamate is actually 10 times more abundant in human breast milk than in cow's milk.

http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures...enderforprint=1

[Drew Aitch]

Follow that

[amexpat]

What a great thread this is! Much needed.

I hope to see some posts that mention specific restaurants, stalls, etc that are better than others.

I enjoy grilled fish (bpla yaang) without any wet stuff on it. Grilled veggies would be nice but I've never seen that.

What about the hydroponic veggies at Rimping? Any thoughts?

Keep up the good work, team.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with Thakkar on the MSG bashing. If you are sensitive to it, avoid it, but most people are not.

IT MAKES FOOD TASTE BETTER and nothing is wrong with that.

Or perhaps it just makes poorly prepared food without fresh quality ingredients taste better? And it is doing so artificially, maybe then there is something wrong with that? I suppose you would be happy with artificially tenderized cheap meat rather than a quality cut?

MSG can not improve bad-tasting food or make up for bad cooking. It does not allow a cook to substitute low-quality for high-quality ingredients in a recipe, and does not tenderize meat. It just makes good food taste better.

http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures...enderforprint=1

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

Khun UG, thanks for a very tasty and well-researched post, on this thread, on MSG.

I personally believe it is easy and simple to find a healthy, clean, and balanced diet in Chiang Mai, if you are willing to do a little shopping, and a little cooking, and if you are willing to exercise reasonable prudence with prepared food you purchase outside the home (as in using your nose and your eyes).

For my human container, most days one boiled egg and 2.5 liters of fresh soy milk are really great; but this is not a diet I advocate

I also believe that the words that come out of your mouth, and what you put into your mind, is quite a bit more important than what you eat

Whatever you eat, or don't eat, I sincerely wish you experience that with gusto, with enjoyment, with rapture, with ecstasy, with the pleasant companionship of people you care for, and that you "fret not" over what other people are doing with what they like to eat unless, of course, you are intimate with them, and they eat garlic and you don't, or some gnarly thing like that.

best, ~o:37;

[Drew Aitch]

MSG can not improve bad-tasting food or make up for bad cooking. It does not allow a cook to substitute low-quality for high-quality ingredients in a recipe, and does not tenderize meat. It just makes good food taste better.

A bit like those popular condiments salt and pepper right? Which in themselves are probably quite harmless in moderation, although i must confess to being somewhat of a salt addict

Aitch

[getgoin]

I love the way this respectful thread has been going. It is one of the few food posts that hasn't got bogged down in the negatives.

That being said, I think you are full of shit UG. Just kidding.

I get a weird felling from too much MSG and from being in the restaurant business for over 30 years I can tell you that a lot of people do also. I have heard all the arguments and for 30 years have witnessed the negatives. Some people have a definite reaction to MSG. Plain and simple. Sure it makes food taste better but for some it gives an artificial high that ends with a thud, a feeling that the mouth is about to explode. Not good.

But that is not the topic here. The topic is good, healthy Thai food and where can we get it. Sound like a story for one of the local papers, magazines and/or news letters. Good luck.

[getgoin]

I agree with Thakkar on the MSG bashing. If you are sensitive to it, avoid it, but most people are not.

IT MAKES FOOD TASTE BETTER and nothing is wrong with that.

Or perhaps it just makes poorly prepared food without fresh quality ingredients taste better? And it is doing so artificially, maybe then there is something wrong with that? I suppose you would be happy with artificially tenderized cheap meat rather than a quality cut?

MSG can not improve bad-tasting food or make up for bad cooking. It does not allow a cook to substitute low-quality for high-quality ingredients in a recipe, and does not tenderize meat. It just makes good food taste better.

http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures...enderforprint=1

And I have to disagree with this. It is a flavor enhansor. We are not talking about bad food. We are talking about OK food without flavor.

It won't change the way you stir-fry that pok fat, it will only make it taste better.

[PeaceBlondie]

Portion size - one of my pet peeves. I have thrown good food into the trash to make the point that I want less.

I had the best pizza today, at Pizza Company, no less. Thin crust, Italian sausage meats, grilled tomatoes, etc.

I seldom eat Thai food.

[frankafey]

Funny, when I'm helping my wife cook we use very little sugar if any at all, it used mostly to take the edge off the salt. We don't use msg in our house but I also know the myths about it are not true and it is a flavor enhancer much like table salt. It is said that people in the food business are cutting corners to increase their profits, sorry they feel people wont pay for quality and many wont but some of us will if we know we're getting the best product possible. I know I can eating healthy Thai food, just as long as I'm cooking it.

[Ulysses G.]

For my human container, most days one boiled egg and 2.5 liters of fresh soy milk are really great; but this is not a diet I advocate

Khun orangeguy

You seem to be getting plenty of vegetarian protein, but you could use more vitamins and minerals. Have you thought about some fresh juiced vegetables every day? It should improve your diet tremendously and fresh carrot juice is even sweeter than soy milk. You can "cut" it with green juices to improve the nutrients and cut down on the fruit sugar.

Drinking coconut water is very helpful also.

[Thakkar]

I agree with Thakkar on the MSG bashing. If you are sensitive to it, avoid it, but most people are not.

IT MAKES FOOD TASTE BETTER and nothing is wrong with that.

Or perhaps it just makes poorly prepared food without fresh quality ingredients taste better? And it is doing so artificially, maybe then there is something wrong with that? I suppose you would be happy with artificially tenderized cheap meat rather than a quality cut?

MSG can not improve bad-tasting food or make up for bad cooking. It does not allow a cook to substitute low-quality for high-quality ingredients in a recipe, and does not tenderize meat. It just makes good food taste better.

http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures...enderforprint=1

And I have to disagree with this. It is a flavor enhansor. We are not talking about bad food. We are talking about OK food without flavor.

It won't change the way you stir-fry that pok fat, it will only make it taste better.

I knew several Chinese chefs in HK and their consensus was that MSG made OK food taste better than OK. They however prided themselves in making tasty food without adding MSG. Most high priced, and many medium priced restaurants in HK claim not to use MSG.

I'm no food connoisseur, but even I can tell that in a dish made with fresh ingredients, expertly prepared, MSG is superfluous. In other dishes, a little MSG goes a long way and I'm glad it's an available option.

My mother, a brilliant cook, never used MSG and had never heard of it till I told her about it. In fact, I have not heard of MSG being used in Indian cooking, at least in homes. I wonder if anyone in these forums knows whether the Indian restaurants in CM use MSG.

Thanks to UG, I've learned a lot more about MSG.

[daoyai]

MSG info. (from UG) supplied by by the I.F.I.C which is funded by the food industry.

Edited August 13, 2009 by daoyai

[cmsally]

There is a lot of literature about the effect of MSG and neurological disorders.

Improving nutrition for children - MSG

Personally I would rather avoid something that isn't necessary and hence we mostly cook at home.

Most restaurants use too much sugar and MSG.

Most good cooks shun its use as a tool of lazy and unskilled chefs - I would agree.

[Ulysses G.]

I have been interested in holistic health for many years and have done a lot of reading about different aspects including MSG.

There are so many studies that strongly suggest that it is mostly harmless, that I am pretty much convinced that it is true. However, I don't expect other people to take my word for it. Investigate yourself, but be careful about folks on the internet who just repeat stories that they have heard without looking any further.