Calling All Nutritionist (amateur Or Professional)

[Asmerom]

I know what you mean. I eat out at least once a day and have learned to stay away from anything with the word "curry" in the description. That seems to be a Thai code word for coconut.

I know coconut milk is a saturated fat but avoiding its use is difficult to square with the fact that Thailand has very nearly the lowest rate of Heart Disease among most developing

countries and of course, much lower than developed ones. I just love coconut milk in my curries.

[Ulysses G.]

A lot of people feel that some saturated fats such as coconut and palm oil are actually quite healthy. It is only the hydrogonated types that are unhealthy.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Lost in LOS]

I know what you mean. I eat out at least once a day and have learned to stay away from anything with the word "curry" in the description. That seems to be a Thai code word for coconut.

I know coconut milk is a saturated fat but avoiding its use is difficult to square with the fact that Thailand has very nearly the lowest rate of Heart Disease among most developing

countries and of course, much lower than developed ones. I just love coconut milk in my curries.

Have you seen the size of thai girls lately, I like them slim and that is getting harder to find. american diet of KFC, MaC, BK etc and then adding coconut milk to most of their dishes is pumping them up

Being single, I eat out every meal. I love the curries, especially panang gai, but control too much of them. In ordering [excuse spellings] Som Tom Thai I say Wan Nit Noy [a little sweet] otherwise they dump sugar in it. In most dishes Mei Maan [no oil, still comes with oil but a greatly reduced amount] Most dishes I order I say Mai Kem [not salty] or Mai Sai gleuua [don't put in salt] still salty but greatly reduced. With fried rice I try for khaao glaawng [brown rice] and maan nit noy [little oil] cana [Chinese broccoli] for taste. I also drink lots of water and take a multiple vitamin daily

Just my way of keeping my weight correct and still being able to eat what I want

Edited August 13, 2009 by Lost in LOS

[daoyai]

A lot of people feel that some saturated fats such as coconut and palm oil are actually quite healthy. It is only the hydrogonated types that are unhealthy.

Coconut milk with lean meat is not a problem, combined with animal fat will clog the arteries, this is based on studdies of traditional Hawaiian and Thai diets.

[brennanstimpy]

This is the weirdest post. Thai food is so incredibly healthy in comparison to the crap I eat in the states. I went to america for 7 weeks and gained over 12 pounds. I can hardly keep weight on here. I order two plates of food often times as well. Maybe I am the only one that exercises regularly. But that post about women here being bigger now is absolutely ridiculous, I hardly ever see women that weigh over 100 pounds.

[amexpat]

This is the weirdest post. Thai food is so incredibly healthy in comparison to the crap I eat in the states. I went to america for 7 weeks and gained over 12 pounds. I can hardly keep weight on here. I order two plates of food often times as well. Maybe I am the only one that exercises regularly. But that post about women here being bigger now is absolutely ridiculous, I hardly ever see women that weigh over 100 pounds.

As a devotee of small, non-fat, types, I am sad to report:

Do a google on "Thais fatter", for example. You will find references to this study and more. Or you can just look around.

The research found that Thai men have grown more than seven centimetre taller and about 12 kilometre fatter, while Thai women have grown five centimetre taller and about five and a half kilogrammes fatter compared to 25 years ago. ‘Thai women’s waistline has also ballooned by 3.7 inches, bottom grown by 2 inches and chest expanded by 2.2 inches,’ said Dr. Chularat.

The fact that Thai men and women have developed significantly bigger chests, waists and bottoms, means the shape of the average Thai has also changed. In particular, Dr. Chularat noted, the women have become more tubular and have less of the traditional hourglass shape.

KFC, McD, hours sitting with video games. It all adds up - and out.

[Asmerom]

Asmerom

I know coconut milk is a saturated fat but avoiding its use is difficult to square with the fact that Thailand has very nearly the lowest rate of Heart Disease among most developing

countries and of course, much lower than developed ones. I just love coconut milk in my curries.

Being single, I eat out every meal. I love the curries, especially panang gai, but control too much of them. In ordering [excuse spellings] Som Tom Thai I say Wan Nit Noy [a little sweet] otherwise they dump sugar in it. In most dishes Mei Maan [no oil, still comes with oil but a greatly reduced amount] Most dishes I order I say Mai Kem [not salty] or Mai Sai gleuua [don't put in salt] still salty but greatly reduced. With fried rice I try for khaao glaawng [brown rice] and maan nit noy [little oil] cana [Chinese broccoli] for taste. I also drink lots of water and take a multiple vitamin daily

Just my way of keeping my weight correct and still being able to eat what I want

Plus, being less likely to develop Alzheimers in your old age - hopefully, a long way off. Its the turmeric apparently.

[Thakkar]

I have been interested in holistic health for many years and have done a lot of reading about different aspects including MSG.

There are so many studies that strongly suggest that it is mostly harmless, that I am pretty much convinced that it is true. However, I don't expect other people to take my word for it. Investigate yourself, but be careful about folks on the internet who just repeat stories that they have heard without looking any further.

I'm with UG. I'm keeping an open mind, but have yet to see any credible study/info to have any worries about normal MSG use. There's a lot of cut and paste on the internet, with all those bloggers having all those pages to fill. Note also that those who are anti-something tend to be more clamorous than those who are pro-something, and on the internet, everybody's an expert.

Certainly, moderation is desirable in all things and I do wish that local cooks relied more on quality ingredients and cooking skills and less on MSG. I'd gladly pay more at such restaurants, if only I knew where to find them (which, by the way, brings us neatly back on topic )

[Thakkar]

Back to being off topic.

I like my women cheerfully cherubic. Happily, Mrs T fits the bill so I don't have to look far.

[getgoin]

I have been interested in holistic health for many years and have done a lot of reading about different aspects including MSG.

There are so many studies that strongly suggest that it is mostly harmless, that I am pretty much convinced that it is true. However, I don't expect other people to take my word for it. Investigate yourself, but be careful about folks on the internet who just repeat stories that they have heard without looking any further.

I'm with UG. I'm keeping an open mind, but have yet to see any credible study/info to have any worries about normal MSG use. There's a lot of cut and paste on the internet, with all those bloggers having all those pages to fill. Note also that those who are anti-something tend to be more clamorous than those who are pro-something, and on the internet, everybody's an expert.

Certainly, moderation is desirable in all things and I do wish that local cooks relied more on quality ingredients and cooking skills and less on MSG. I'd gladly pay more at such restaurants, if only I knew where to find them (which, by the way, brings us neatly back on topic )

I also have to agree. More attention to cooking skills and techniques and less reliance on sugar, sodium and msg. Add that to the use of good oils, in small amounts, with some lite curries and the use of good quality ingredients.

[ozsamurai]

Now that we have debated the pro's and cons of Palm Oil and MSG in Thai cooking, does anyone have any actual recipes or advise for the OP to eat a healthy diet?? I hate Thai food, cannot stand spice, but would still love to know how I could use local ingredients to make nutritional meals, or even adapt some of the dishes to exclude the red peppers. If anyone could even give me names of dishes that are in no way spicy I would appreciate it. Chefs??

Oz

[Oneman]

What about the hydroponic veggies at Rimping?

Thank you, "AmExpat", for mentioning those hydroponic veggies at Rimping.

That's a valuable recommendation for anyone wanting to improve their food quality here.

TOPS supermarket also offers some hydroponics: mostly tomatoes and lettuce and other greens.

I usually buy hydroponics, but when I get home, and my cook-helper sees the prices, she scolds me for spending too much.

Yet, if I let her do the shopping, she'll go to the cheapest stalls, in the cheapest markets, to buy the cheapest food.

I do not agree with the common Thai attitude that cheapest is best, so I buy all the groceries myself.

In my recent quest for healthier food here, I've discovered TOPS "food service" packs of main ingredients, such as chicken parts, fish fillets, and pork chops.

The food is cut and cleaned and put up in 1 kilo packages.

There is nothing else in there -- just the main ingredient -- no spices, no preservatives, no sauce, no MSG.

I freeze, and, as needed, remove one or two pieces, wash, and cook.

Convenient and healthy.

You can find those in the fresh meat/fish display and the frozen foods section.

(Being already prepared they are not cheap, so you may get a scolding from your Thai wife/helper.)

On the topic of where to buy good quality and fresh food, Rimping comes in first, of course.

But I've found a close second in the TOPS supermarket, Chotana branch, on Chang Phuak Road.

That store used to be operated by Rimping, and is shown still on some maps as Rimping, but it is now TOPS.

The fresh produce section is excellent, and the meat and fish are very good.

I go some distance out of the way just to shop there.

The location is behind the Mercure Hotel (formerly Novotel), and opposite Chang Phuak soi 5.

Warning: Map below is from a "Made in Thailand" web site, so, as we have learned to expect, it is not quite accurate.

But it will get you to the neighborhood.

TOPS is actually behind the hotel, not next door, as shown on the map.

Searching for quality prepared foods without chemicals, etc., I've discovered Amy's brand, organic foods.

I use Amy's organic soups as a sauce over a bowl of rice, instead of buying a Thai rice-plate meal.

Amy's mushroom soup is especially tasty that way.

The spaghetti sauce with roasted garlic is delicious, better than many Italian restaurants, in my opinion.

Amy's also has organic frozen foods.

The biggest selection of Amy's organic foods is at Rimping, with some items available at TOPS.

. . . .

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Oneman

[brennanstimpy]

Now that we have debated the pro's and cons of Palm Oil and MSG in Thai cooking, does anyone have any actual recipes or advise for the OP to eat a healthy diet?? I hate Thai food, cannot stand spice, but would still love to know how I could use local ingredients to make nutritional meals, or even adapt some of the dishes to exclude the red peppers. If anyone could even give me names of dishes that are in no way spicy I would appreciate it. Chefs??

Oz

I would suggest you move to another country. to live in a country where you hate the food is asinine.

[PeaceBlondie]

Now that we have debated the pro's and cons of Palm Oil and MSG in Thai cooking, does anyone have any actual recipes or advise for the OP to eat a healthy diet?? I hate Thai food, cannot stand spice, but would still love to know how I could use local ingredients to make nutritional meals, or even adapt some of the dishes to exclude the red peppers. If anyone could even give me names of dishes that are in no way spicy I would appreciate it. Chefs??

Oz

I would suggest you move to another country. to live in a country where you hate the food is asinine.

I moved to Thailand and intend to live out the rest of my life here, and I hate 90% of all Thai food. I manage to stay over 90 kg by eating local meats (mostly white chicken) and vegetables without chilies, plus lots of fresh fruit and Western style beef.

[Ulysses G.]

I moved to Thailand and intend to live out the rest of my life here, and I hate 90% of all Thai food.

I have to admit that I feel much the same.

I do like some vegetarian dishes and a few Chinese and Muslim dishes that are commonly available here, but avoid most Thai food other than those. Luckily, there is starting to be lots of other choices around including Vietnamese, Chinese and Japanese food which I love and Thai people eat them which keeps the price down.

I lived in Hanoi for about 6 months, but I hated everything other than the food. I rather live in a country I like and make do with the food, rather than live somewhere with great vittles, but everything else sucks.

If we chose where to live because of food, everyone would be living in Italy.

[ozsamurai]

Now that we have debated the pro's and cons of Palm Oil and MSG in Thai cooking, does anyone have any actual recipes or advise for the OP to eat a healthy diet?? I hate Thai food, cannot stand spice, but would still love to know how I could use local ingredients to make nutritional meals, or even adapt some of the dishes to exclude the red peppers. If anyone could even give me names of dishes that are in no way spicy I would appreciate it. Chefs??

Oz

I would suggest you move to another country. to live in a country where you hate the food is asinine.

On the contrary, having just left Japan where I lived for 20yrs, I can say that Bangkok offers some very comparable food to the quality in Japan, so I have no problem feeding myself. I found in Japan also alot of the very sour and salted dishes not to my liking, as it is here with the spice. So can any dishes be adapted? Or I'll just do what I always do, eat from the other 200 or so ethnic cuisines available..... you really have a short view on things. You want I should wear my pakama and 10baht gold chain as well??

Oz

[Thakkar]

I moved to Thailand and intend to live out the rest of my life here, and I hate 90% of all Thai food.

I rather live in a country I like and make do with the food, rather than live somewhere with great vittles, but everything else sucks.

If we chose where to live because of food, everyone would be living in Italy.

Quite so.

Besides, there's not much need to 'make do' as most of what you'd want is available here, albeit sometimes at a price. Food and ingredients are transportable, the ambiance of a special place, not so much.

[Ulysses G.]

Twenty years ago, one had to make do. The good old days are now!

[sabaijai]

Moved to Thai Food subforum.

[rethaired]

Thanks Oneman for that comprehensive post! It has been copied and pasted for future reference. I was looking for some decent pasta sauce, as I don't have the means to make it from scratch at this time.

For those who are trying to avoid MSG, I would give this simple advice (perhaps too simple, but, hey, you can skip it), go to a stall and ask for the papaya salad Mai chalot and Mai prick (if you hate it spicy).

I also feel that sugar is too ubiquitous in all places. I thought North Americans ate too much sugar. I think LOS is not far off!

I would like to state that I am pleased with the variety of bread that are being sold in many bakeries (Tops is the one I enjoy). Not sure what they put in the bread, but it is nice.

Also, am I wrong in having a feeling that they add salt in some jams (the Thai ones which I cannot read the list of ingredients)? I feel I am always thirsty, although it could be the heat or the fan blowing!

Just asking! Just helping!

[Drew Aitch]

I wish TV wouldn't keep moving posts just because they believe the thread will benefit a wider audience. After all, the main purpose for this Chiang Mai resident's post was to seek advice on healthy foods and places to eat in and around the CM area. If it was just a food thread, then I agree, it should be moved to a more appropriate place. However, we want to know what's what in and around CM restaurants, shops, and market places.

This is the second time this has happened in as many weeks, and i will probably not make and future contributions to TV because of it.

Aitch

Edited August 14, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[PeaceBlondie]

back to Chiang Mai by request of OP. Best to request it clearly in OP.

[Oneman]

.

Another source of information about food products in Chiangmai is Rimping customer service.

In the past, they have answered my email questions quickly and helpfully.

Like the OP, I like the flavor of Thai foods, but I want to avoid toxic substances.

One of my personal items to avoid is MSG.

So, just now, I sent email to Rimping (in Chiangmai), asking if they could tell me names of Thai-style seasoning sauces without MSG.

(Others may be interested in low-salt, no palm oil, etc.)

This forum prohibits posting of emails, but here is the web site for Rimping: http://www.rimping.com/

Look for the "contact" section.

(Be prepared, it is a Thai-style web site with lots of cutsey entertainment, but not much substance.)

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

[Oneman]

I am pleased with the variety of bread that are being sold in many bakeries (Tops is the one I enjoy). Not sure what they put in the bread, but it is nice.

Yes!

Delicious bread right here in the tropics, but not a single wheat field in sight!

How do they do it?

Here's one answer:

I am acquainted with the baker at a large hotel in Thailand.

Many times I've complimented him on his superb breads.

One day he revealed the secret, "Each variety is prepared mix," he said. "They come from Germany. We just add water and bake."

Well, I like that, because the standards of quality and hygiene are much higher in Germany than here.

Also, am I wrong in having a feeling that they add salt in some jams (the Thai ones which I cannot read the list of ingredients)?

Ah, yes, the salt.

Thanks for bringing that up.

Thais do add salt to a lot of foods where it seems an inappropriate flavor to us.

I don't know about the ingredients in jam, but if you show me a Thai label, I could translate for you.

But I do know about orange juice -- often added salt, and sugar, too.

As an example:

There may be several orange juice stands around, but I had this experience in Gad-Suan-Kaeow in Chiangmai.

On the lower level, near the rear door, there is a stand offering "orange juice".

Display of lots of oranges -- which on close inspection turn out to be plastic: a bad omen.

When you order juice, the girl retreats behind a screen where you can not see what she is doing.

The resulting glass of juice tastes like anything but fresh orange juice.

And, I'm sure, has a good dose of salt and other flavorings.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Oneman

[jazzbo]

In response to growing concerns from the consumer about food intolerance, the food industry and food safety agencies in Europe are continuing in their quest to allay fears. The recent move by the UK's Food Standards Agency (FSA) to provide information on food intolerance, including food allergies, on its website is one such case.

The FSA resource contains information on 24 different types of food intolerance, from peanut and coconut allergy to lactose intolerance and coeliac disease. It also includes explanations of what happens in the body when someone has an allergic reaction to food and looks at why people get food allergies.

Food intolerances appear to be on the rise but some have questioned whether it is a real medical condition or merely in the mind and a consumer fad. The agency notes that some people can have unpleasant reactions to food that are not the same as food intolerance. Such an example is a 'food aversion', when someone reacts to a food because of a personal dislike. The symptoms are described as being quite similar to those of food intolerance, but they only happen when the person knows they have eaten the food.

A report published in March 2003 by market analysts Mintel highlights the tendency towards so-called 'designer allergies' and the rising demand from the consumer products that do not contain ingredients such as wheat, lactose, gluten and nuts. The food intolerance and allergies market has grown 165 per cent since 2000, and is set to more than double in value by 2007 reaching £138 million (€202m), according to the report. (Decision News Media)

---As in "Hi! My name is Joe. I'm Lactose Intolerant"

[Oneman]

In response to growing concerns from the consumer about food intolerance

Jazzbo --

Is there a Chiangmai connection in your post above?

Or, even a Thai food connection?

If so, I missed it -- perhaps others did, too -- so I hope you'll explain.

Thanks.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

[el jefe]

In response to growing concerns from the consumer about food intolerance

Jazzbo --

Is there a Chiangmai connection in your post above?

Or, even a Thai food connection?

If so, I missed it -- perhaps others did, too -- so I hope you'll explain.

Thanks.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

His point was that even though there have been several posts with links to sites disproving the claim that MSG is universally evil, some posters continue to claim that it must be avoided. Anyone who hasn't been tested for an MSG specific allergy cannot claim to have one, unless they've been eating MSG straight.

[jazzbo]

The point as illustrated by the UK FSA et al is that a lot of food fears, claims of allegies, and other aversions are somewhat hypochondriacal. And the Chiang Mai connection, having been there many times and being the 'Berkeley' of Thailand, is that a lot of foodie wackos live there.

[elektrified]

What a great thread this is! Much needed.

I hope to see some posts that mention specific restaurants, stalls, etc that are better than others.

I enjoy grilled fish (bpla yaang) without any wet stuff on it. Grilled veggies would be nice but I've never seen that.

What about the hydroponic veggies at Rimping? Any thoughts?

Keep up the good work, team.

Grilled veggies are sold in practically all the Thai markets. For 10 Baht they give you a selection of grilled small eggplant, okra, and a couple of green leafy vegetables. Thais eat them with nam prik - the stringy green chili variety with the seeds. They sell the nam prik separately. Really good stuff for 10 Baht!

[jazzbo]

Another one from the mis-information department:

Health Benefits of Eggs

Eggs are a good source of low-cost high-quality protein, providing 5.5 grams of protein (11.1% of the daily value for protein) in one egg for a caloric cost of only 68 calories. The structure of humans and animals is built on protein. We rely on animal and vegetable protein for our supply of amino acids, and then our bodies rearrange the nitrogen to create the pattern of amino acids we require.

An Egg Breakfast Helps Promote Weight Loss

In a randomized controlled trial, 160 overweight or obese men and women were divided into 2 groups, one of which ate a breakfast including 2 eggs, while the other consumed a bagel breakfast supplying the same amount of calories and weight mass (an important control factor in satiety and weight loss studies). Participants ate their assigned breakfast at least 5 days a week for 8 weeks as part of a low-fat diet with a 1,000 calorie deficit. (Dhurandhar N, Vander Wal J, et al, FASEB Journal)

Compared to those on the bagel breakfast, egg eaters:

* Lost almost twice as much weight -- egg eaters lost an average of 6.0 pounds compared to bagel eaters' 3.5 pound loss.

* Had an 83% greater decrease in waist circumference

* Reported greater improvements in energy

Improve Your Cholesterol Profile

Not only have studies shown that eggs do not significantly affect cholesterol levels in most individuals, but the latest research suggests that eating whole egg may actually result in significant improvement in one's blood lipids (cholesterol) profile-even in persons whose cholesterol levels rise when eating cholesterol-rich foods.

The above courtesy of The George Mateljan Foundation (George Mateljan was the Founder of Health Valley Foods, one of the first organic food companies in USA and sold to the Hain Celestial juggernaut.)

BTW I have these articles on hand for professional purposes. The above is relevant because there are eggs in Chiang Mai.