Sexual Harrassment At School

[Geekfreaklover]

I've recently noticed sexual harrassment at school, whilst working as a teacher.

The harrasment was between two teachers. One male telling the other teacher that he will follow her home every night and other very creepy stuff. Obviously I was appalled.

The harrassment occured betweeen two langauge teachers. I mentioned the situation to the female teacher who was being abused and offered to help her by speaking to the head of the department or speaking directly to the bully of a teacher who had been speaking inapptopiately to her on a daily basis.

The upshot of the conversation was the offender calling myself into his office and being told to never talk to the female teacher again.

What would you people do in this situation?

My natural impulse is to talk to the head of the department and report the problem. However the lady in question is under constant preasure from the guy and she seems quite content (although crying every day) to let the abuse continue...

It's sad situation.

[Scott]

I would encourage her to talk with the head of the department and then back away from it. Although sexual harassment is everyone's problem--in this instance it is her problem and she needs to deal with it.

[Mario2008]

I agree with Scott, she has your support and needs it, but she needs to do it herself. If you do it for her, she might not like that and you could find yourself between 2 fires.

But I would have a serious problem with being called into that teachers office and being told not to talk to the female teacher again. That warning I would ignore, just to make clear he can't bully me.

[Scott]

He sounds like someone who has some serious control issues.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[Geekfreaklover]

Will do. I have to face the music tomorrow. I took the day off work yesterday as I was so upset about it all.

I've decided to say to the bully / sex pest that he can only speak to me when there there is a third person present in the room. Other than that - please leave me alone.

Thankfully we don't teach the same students so there is no need to speak proffesionaly.

As mentioned, it is up to her what she dicides to do.

I hate abusive relationships and try to stop them, but in this instance there is nothing I can do apart from keep my distance.

[BWPattaya]

You didn't mention if you are male or female. If you are female just complain to the head of the department yourself saying that he is a sex pest. Suggest the head then asks others if they are being abused by him.

If you are male just tell him that he can not bully you and if he continues to be a pest then you will report him yourself.

Be aware though that he may say that you are interested in the femaale teacher yourself and just want to force him out of the picture.

Ultimayely it is her responsibility to report it, though bullies rely on the fact that the vistim is usually too scared and under too much pressure. Good luck

[Geekfreaklover]

I'm male.

The person being harrassed is female. I'm pretty sure most of the staff know what is going on, but don't want to acknowledge it becasue they are scared for the safety of their jobs or whatever. The guy (abuser) sees me as a threat and has twisted the whole thing around to make me out as the bad guy. Although I did nothing wrong apart from offer to help out the female teacher.

He mimics my accent, mocks me. Baiscally he is taking the piss. Everydey.

My immidiate reaction was to walk away from the job. But that doesn't help the students. it doesn't help her and it doesn't help me.

How do you reason with a piss taking manipulitive stalker with severe control issues ?

Edited August 12, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Scott]

Does the sex pest have some sort of relationship with the lady in question? Have they dated, lived together or had a sexual relationship? If so, then it is a whole different kettle of fish you are dealing with and it is far different from simple harrassment.

[TVBP]

Kick his ass....teach him to be a man and not a f&$# coward

Edited August 12, 2009 by TVBP

[jasreeve17]

Will do. I have to face the music tomorrow. I took the day off work yesterday as I was so upset about it all.

I've decided to say to the bully / sex pest that he can only speak to me when there there is a third person present in the room. Other than that - please leave me alone.

Thankfully we don't teach the same students so there is no need to speak proffesionaly.

As mentioned, it is up to her what she dicides to do.

I hate abusive relationships and try to stop them, but in this instance there is nothing I can do apart from keep my distance.

So, you escalated this by sticking your nose in then at the slightest intimidation you're backing out - after you've increased the problem for her. Not well managed...

You may of had good intentions, but you need to think things through first because he'll likely make her life worse now!

You took the day of work due to the stress of it, now won't speak to him unless a third person is present??? Sounds pathetic frankly. I don't agree with Scott or Mario because you are the one that stuck your oar in, so you can't now just run away from your responsibility that you brought upon yourself with your actions.

Frankly, I can't see a positive outcome here, but you need to stick by the lady now, don't cause any problems, but don't wimp out of confrontations with him - he'll likely not cause any he'll just get you sacked instead...

[Scott]

This is a work place. My advice is based on keeping it as such. Playing out your personal dramas at work is likely to be counter productive for all concerned.

In a ball game, it's best to keep your eye on the ball and in this case that's teaching.

[Geekfreaklover]

Will do. I have to face the music tomorrow. I took the day off work yesterday as I was so upset about it all.

I've decided to say to the bully / sex pest that he can only speak to me when there there is a third person present in the room. Other than that - please leave me alone.

Thankfully we don't teach the same students so there is no need to speak proffesionaly.

As mentioned, it is up to her what she dicides to do.

I hate abusive relationships and try to stop them, but in this instance there is nothing I can do apart from keep my distance.

So, you escalated this by sticking your nose in then at the slightest intimidation you're backing out - after you've increased the problem for her. Not well managed...

You may of had good intentions, but you need to think things through first because he'll likely make her life worse now!

You took the day of work due to the stress of it, now won't speak to him unless a third person is present??? Sounds pathetic frankly. I don't agree with Scott or Mario because you are the one that stuck your oar in, so you can't now just run away from your responsibility that you brought upon yourself with your actions.

Frankly, I can't see a positive outcome here, but you need to stick by the lady now, don't cause any problems, but don't wimp out of confrontations with him - he'll likely not cause any he'll just get you sacked instead...

Thanks for that helpful contribution.

Should I have just ignored the problem? Is that what you are suggesting. My gut reaction is to speak with the principle and get it sorted.

If I get sacked for trying to help someone out, then so be it.

As for the other posts - no there has been no sexual relations between the pair. She lives alone - he lives with a Thai woman.

[Geekfreaklover]

This is a work place. My advice is based on keeping it as such. Playing out your personal dramas at work is likely to be counter productive for all concerned.

In a ball game, it's best to keep your eye on the ball and in this case that's teaching.

I know what you mean scott, but what if for example it was a different situation - a teacher interferring sexually with students - would you ignore it and keep 'your eye on the ball' or would you report the problem?

[Scott]

There is nothing wrong with trying to help. You tried and it's not working out the way you thought it would or should. It's best to let others deal with it.

Be as supportive to the lady as you can. Let her know your there for her, but in the end she needs to take charge of the situation.

[jasreeve17]

This is a work place. My advice is based on keeping it as such. Playing out your personal dramas at work is likely to be counter productive for all concerned.

I agree completely, thus why did Geeky mismanage the sitiuation so???

Having said that, the guy, if he really is harrassing the woman, started 'the drama', and Geeky was right to be concerened. We all carry social responsibilty in and out of the workplace - especially so in schools and universities where we must set an example to the youngsters.

As you know full well having worked here for years, the Thais loving causing "Dramas' in the workplace. It's non-stop...

[jasreeve17]

Will do. I have to face the music tomorrow. I took the day off work yesterday as I was so upset about it all.

I've decided to say to the bully / sex pest that he can only speak to me when there there is a third person present in the room. Other than that - please leave me alone.

Thankfully we don't teach the same students so there is no need to speak proffesionaly.

As mentioned, it is up to her what she dicides to do.

I hate abusive relationships and try to stop them, but in this instance there is nothing I can do apart from keep my distance.

So, you escalated this by sticking your nose in then at the slightest intimidation you're backing out - after you've increased the problem for her. Not well managed...

You may of had good intentions, but you need to think things through first because he'll likely make her life worse now!

You took the day of work due to the stress of it, now won't speak to him unless a third person is present??? Sounds pathetic frankly. I don't agree with Scott or Mario because you are the one that stuck your oar in, so you can't now just run away from your responsibility that you brought upon yourself with your actions.

Frankly, I can't see a positive outcome here, but you need to stick by the lady now, don't cause any problems, but don't wimp out of confrontations with him - he'll likely not cause any he'll just get you sacked instead...

Thanks for that helpful contribution.

Should I have just ignored the problem? Is that what you are suggesting. My gut reaction is to speak with the principle and get it sorted.

If I get sacked for trying to help someone out, then so be it.

As for the other posts - no there has been no sexual relations between the pair. She lives alone - he lives with a Thai woman.

I'm suggesting that you need to use some mature foresight before you act. You're correct to be concerned and I applaud your humanity, but you've made things worse; use this as a learning experience...

Your gut reaction to escalate the situation to the top is a poor one unless you've been there a long time and know all the parties concerned and the real situation very well (in which case you'd have other alternatives...).

[Geekfreaklover]

The problem that people being abused have is that they do not like to admit they are being abused as they are made to feel that they have caused the abuse themselves. This is the nature of abuse - be it sexual harrassment or whatever.

Although my actions were noble - they have not done anything to resolve the problem currently. However, I have made a person aware that certain behaviour is not accpetable - nobody needs to suffer abuse. Turning a blind eye is not the answer.

Care and support is.

[elkangorito]

My comments in blue.

I've recently noticed sexual harrassment at school, whilst working as a teacher.

The harrasment was between two teachers. One male telling the other teacher that he will follow her home every night and other very creepy stuff. Obviously I was appalled.

Obviously, these are two ADULT teachers.

The harrassment occured betweeen two langauge teachers. I mentioned the situation to the female teacher who was being abused and offered to help her by speaking to the head of the department or speaking directly to the bully of a teacher who had been speaking inapptopiately to her on a daily basis.

You made a mistake. It would've been better if you simply asked, without any hint of knowing what was going on, "Can I help you in any way?" If the answer was "no", forget it & move on. If the answer was "yes", ask how you can help.

The upshot of the conversation was the offender calling myself into his office and being told to never talk to the female teacher again.

This is what happens when you don't mind your own business.

What would you people do in this situation?

Since they are two adults, I would mind my own business.

My natural impulse is to talk to the head of the department and report the problem. However the lady in question is under constant preasure from the guy and she seems quite content (although crying every day) to let the abuse continue...

It's sad situation.

It is a sad situation indeed but some people must fail in order to learn how to support themselves. The saddest thing is that you intervened & now things have become worse...for you & for her. How can anyone ever learn anything if they don't get hurt or make mistakes? This is a very personal & "living" experience. I suggest you dull your over reactive attitude & focus more on your own problems.

[joskydive]

May I ask if there are other Ladies at the school in which she can confide in? If so, it would be better if she knows they will give her morale support while she makes her complaint about this man. You, as a man, could be seen as interfering because you have your own eye on her or private agenda and the story could be manipulated by the other party in this way, leaving you as the one who is at fault.

Edited August 12, 2009 by joskydive

[venturalaw]

The problem that people being abused have is that they do not like to admit they are being abused as they are made to feel that they have caused the abuse themselves. This is the nature of abuse - be it sexual harrassment or whatever.

Although my actions were noble - they have not done anything to resolve the problem currently. However, I have made a person aware that certain behaviour is not accpetable - nobody needs to suffer abuse. Turning a blind eye is not the answer.

Care and support is.

You said the abuser is living with a Thai lady. May I assume that the abuser in NOT Thai. If he is Thai, I would just stay away from him. When it comes to disputes between farang and Thai, Thai usually win.

If he is not Thai, my way of dealing with offenders, usually, is to put a spotlight on them. Usually they are cowards. So, I bring them out into the open. If appropriate, I would verbally chastise him publicly. During a staff meeting with the other teachers, or with the school administration/owner present, ask the offender why he insists upon harassing his victim. These types never do well when exposed. Just my way - bring it all out into the open with plenty of witnesses. Then it is certain that he will cease the harassment. Also, usually offenders of this type have several victims - not just one. And, he could start (if not already) with some of the students.

[elkangorito]

The problem that people being abused have is that they do not like to admit they are being abused as they are made to feel that they have caused the abuse themselves. This is the nature of abuse - be it sexual harrassment or whatever.

Although my actions were noble - they have not done anything to resolve the problem currently. However, I have made a person aware that certain behaviour is not accpetable - nobody needs to suffer abuse. Turning a blind eye is not the answer.

Care and support is.

You said the abuser is living with a Thai lady. May I assume that the abuser in NOT Thai. If he is Thai, I would just stay away from him. When it comes to disputes between farang and Thai, Thai usually win.

If he is not Thai, my way of dealing with offenders, usually, is to put a spotlight on them. Usually they are cowards. So, I bring them out into the open. If appropriate, I would verbally chastise him publicly. During a staff meeting with the other teachers, or with the school administration/owner present, ask the offender why he insists upon harassing his victim. These types never do well when exposed. Just my way - bring it all out into the open with plenty of witnesses. Then it is certain that he will cease the harassment. Also, usually offenders of this type have several victims - not just one. And, he could start (if not already) with some of the students.

Thai or not, it's very simple...MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

[venturalaw]

The problem that people being abused have is that they do not like to admit they are being abused as they are made to feel that they have caused the abuse themselves. This is the nature of abuse - be it sexual harrassment or whatever.

Although my actions were noble - they have not done anything to resolve the problem currently. However, I have made a person aware that certain behaviour is not accpetable - nobody needs to suffer abuse. Turning a blind eye is not the answer.

Care and support is.

You said the abuser is living with a Thai lady. May I assume that the abuser in NOT Thai. If he is Thai, I would just stay away from him. When it comes to disputes between farang and Thai, Thai usually win.

If he is not Thai, my way of dealing with offenders, usually, is to put a spotlight on them. Usually they are cowards. So, I bring them out into the open. If appropriate, I would verbally chastise him publicly. During a staff meeting with the other teachers, or with the school administration/owner present, ask the offender why he insists upon harassing his victim. These types never do well when exposed. Just my way - bring it all out into the open with plenty of witnesses. Then it is certain that he will cease the harassment. Also, usually offenders of this type have several victims - not just one. And, he could start (if not already) with some of the students.

Thai or not, it's very simple...MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

Not easy for me to do if I see a colleague crying daily due to harassment. It's those that turn away not offering to help that allow wrongdoers to continue unscathed.

[joskydive]

Thai or not, it's very simple...MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

Yes and that's exactly what the Sex Pest is relying on! If she has friends who MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS, she needs no more enemies.

Edited August 12, 2009 by joskydive

[schmutzie]

A little flabbergasted by some of the responses here...

Surely, if you asking the OP to "mind his own business", shouldn't you also be doing that? Yeah, so he's posing you a question on a forum, inviting your assistance, but still..

Regardless, I think if you're convinced that harm is being done through bullying at your work place that you should make yourself aware of the details and if you're satisfied that she is a victim, unprovoked, of sexual harassment, then take this fight all the way.

Alternatively help her find a new work place.

But you really need to be a tad more determined then the waivering attitude you display here. I can only assume you're a bit young, in which case I would be very careful about my actions.

Also, maybe it would help, from a cultural point of view to clarify whether it's Thai on Thai or...?

Sorry, but I hate bullies with a vengeance in any shape or form - usually all they need is someone to stand up to them and give them a bit of opposition.

[Ijustwannateach]

Hmmm... a very unpleasant and unfortunate situation.

OP, I think you did the *right* thing by telling the female teacher you supported her and encouraging her not to accept the situation (if you did so *privately*). As long as it is a situation which affects the morale and performance of all persons (including yourself) in the workplace, it is LITERALLY your business. However, there are some sensitive issues here of control, and they are not necessarily all those of the sex pest.

Just how was it that your male coworker found out that you had talked with your female coworker? Was it because the female coworker told him, or was it because you had told another coworker (who told him) or that you told the female coworker of your support in front of many people? It was not your mandate to do anything else but show your support, or if necessary because it was affecting YOUR work to complain to your boss. Spreading gossip about your coworker, or speaking out in a group without considering the male coworker's right to confidentiality- even with good intentions and even if true- is troublemaking behaviour that will reflect as badly in its own way on you as your pervert coworker's behaviour. You're not a manager, you don't have a disciplinary mandate, and in the real world the 'white knight' syndrome rarely makes you look like a prince.

You may have to realise and acknowledge that *you* are not in charge of this coworker. Your boss is. If you and/or your lady coworker together want to stop the male coworker's behaviour or have him disciplined, it MUST be through your boss. Furthermore, until your boss decides for him/herself what the real situation is, everything you have done or said about it will be closely scrutinised, too. That means you need to be very concerned over privacy, slander, and confidentiality issues; it sounds like *someone* in this situation has dropped the ball already on this one.

Your male coworker's response to you is inappropriate; however, I think he probably knows you already have gone the wrong direction (by not involving your boss or the lady coworker) and so it will be hard for you to complain about this particular offense without admitting that you yourself may have behaved inappropriately, too.

Unfortunately, you cannot make the boss a functional manager, and there are all too many dysfunctional ones in Thailand. If your boss is unwilling to address the situation (assuming the lady coworker ever becomes interested in addressing it herself) then you have no choice but to avoid all of those persons (though I believe it is possible for the lady to sue in that case, though the law in Thailand on this area may not have the strength it does in other countries). In fact, if the lady doesn't wish to stand up for herself, it is unlikely that you will do well for yourself or her by continuing to be involved with her. In that case, it is only if the situation directly impacts your work that you can have any reason to remain involved- and it would probably be easier either to ignore it until they do get fired or quit, or to find a new job.

Good luck.

P.S. I think you are right to request that the male coworker not speak to you without the presence of a witness. The legal issues could get quite complex if a lawyer is ever needed and better for you to start collecting evidence if necessary. In employment and in law, you've gotta cover your a**, unless the macho posters ridiculing you here are volunteering to pay your legal fees and your dole if you are fired.

[Thongkorn]

Does the lady in question have a partner , if so why has he not done anything, If she has not got a partner get some one else to have a quite word, maybe one of her family.Do not confront him or put yourself in a position to be got at in any way, Just smile at him and be civil, believe me that pis.. them off.I have found that dumb insolence is better than a fist, an some times nothing said is worth a thousand words.

[schmutzie]

OT, but why the many responses to "kick his ass"....going around policing one's workplace with a fist is hardly less bully-harassment behaviour than the issue trying to be resolved. Not a big fan of this line of thinking...

[Geekfreaklover]

Does the lady in question have a partner , if so why has he not done anything, If she has not got a partner get some one else to have a quite word, maybe one of her family.Do not confront him or put yourself in a position to be got at in any way, Just smile at him and be civil, believe me that pis.. them off.I have found that dumb insolence is better than a fist, an some times nothing said is worth a thousand words.

This is the kind of advice I need.

[Scott]

Post suggesting the use of violence have been deleted. Further suggestions of that type will earn people a posting holiday. Further negative statements about the OP will also be deleted. They are off topic.

This is a teaching forum and the OP works at school. He is asking for advice relating to a place of employment.

You might want to keep in mind that this is a post about harassment, not abuse. They are very different.

Keep it on-topic.

[venturalaw]

Post suggesting the use of violence have been deleted. Further suggestions of that type will earn people a posting holiday. Further negative statements about the OP will also be deleted. They are off topic.

This is a teaching forum and the OP works at school. He is asking for advice relating to a place of employment.

You might want to keep in mind that this is a post about harassment, not abuse. They are very different.

Keep it on-topic.

I agree, the OP is seeking advice for a very difficult situation and should not be attacked, even if it is viewed by some that he erred in his initial approach. His desire is to help.

Actually, harassment often is a form of abuse, especially if the victim is "crying daily" as a result thereof.

Edited August 13, 2009 by venturalaw