phetaroi Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 P.S. I think you are right to request that the male coworker not speak to you without the presence of a witness. The legal issues could get quite complex if a lawyer is ever needed and better for you to start collecting evidence if necessary. In employment and in law, you've gotta cover your a**, unless the macho posters ridiculing you here are volunteering to pay your legal fees and your dole if you are fired. First, no, I've never worked in a school in Thailand. I'm going to give you some advice based on being a school principal in America (retired). I know that some will say that my advice is not applicable, and if you wish to take that stance, fine, no problem. But, let me tell you why I think my advice is applicable. My experiences were in America, a country which bends over backwards now is often to accommodate the complaints of the person allegedly being harassed. I even had one experience where a hearing officer said, "We always believe the female." Wow...now that's justice for you! (Sarcasm, for those who may not realize it). You, however, are in Thailand, which I know to be far less sensitive to sexual harassment. In our school system we had both our own private investigator and we worked directly with police officers who were assigned to the schools. The most basic rule of thumb was, if the victim isn't willing to make a complaint, you haven't got a case. Once I took a case to court without the victim's cooperation...plenty of proof...but the minute the judge learned the victim wouldn't make a complaint, case closed. My advice to you would be two-fold. First, tell the victim you will support her if she wants your help. Second, whether or not you have her cooperation you could put in writing to the school administration a complaint stating that in your opinion a fellow staff member is sexually harassing Miss So-And-So. Don't identify in any way the offender. Let the administration carry if from there. In this way you have offered help to the victim, left yourself free of a slander/libel charge, and put the responsibility -- in writing -- on the people who should resolve the situation. Obviously, you should keep a copy of your letter, and, if you wish, make that obvious with a cc at the bottom. My impression because of things I have read on this forum is that you are still putting yourself at some risk (let's get rid of the trouble maker), and you have to make a decision in advance if you are willing to take that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Does the lady in question have a partner , if so why has he not done anything, If she has not got a partner get some one else to have a quite word, maybe one of her family.Do not confront him or put yourself in a position to be got at in any way, Just smile at him and be civil, believe me that pis.. them off.I have found that dumb insolence is better than a fist, an some times nothing said is worth a thousand words. This is the kind of advice I need. No it is not. You will cause an even bigger problem for her. You have no right to discuss the case with her partner or family without her permission. It is an invasion of privacy and she will be humiliated and lose face. Never ever do this to a Thai. Read phetaroi's advice. It is all you need to know. There is an administration at your school and it is their duty and legal obligation to respond if the subject is raised. Maybe they won't respond, but there are procedures to be followed and you have to follow those procedures first and give them a chance. To do otherwise also puts you at risk of being seen as a troublemaker because you didn't respect the hierarchy. If you understand Thais, then you will appreciate that they take hierarchy and reporting structures seriously. Work within the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Does the lady in question have a partner , if so why has he not done anything, If she has not got a partner get some one else to have a quite word, maybe one of her family.Do not confront him or put yourself in a position to be got at in any way, Just smile at him and be civil, believe me that pis.. them off.I have found that dumb insolence is better than a fist, an some times nothing said is worth a thousand words. This is the kind of advice I need. No it is not. You will cause an even bigger problem for her. You have no right to discuss the case with her partner or family without her permission. It is an invasion of privacy and she will be humiliated and lose face. Never ever do this to a Thai. Read phetaroi's advice. It is all you need to know. There is an administration at your school and it is their duty and legal obligation to respond if the subject is raised. Maybe they won't respond, but there are procedures to be followed and you have to follow those procedures first and give them a chance. To do otherwise also puts you at risk of being seen as a troublemaker because you didn't respect the hierarchy. If you understand Thais, then you will appreciate that they take hierarchy and reporting structures seriously. Work within the system. The teacher is not Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasreeve17 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Does the lady in question have a partner , if so why has he not done anything, If she has not got a partner get some one else to have a quite word, maybe one of her family.Do not confront him or put yourself in a position to be got at in any way, Just smile at him and be civil, believe me that pis.. them off.I have found that dumb insolence is better than a fist, an some times nothing said is worth a thousand words. This is the kind of advice I need. No it is not. You will cause an even bigger problem for her. You have no right to discuss the case with her partner or family without her permission. It is an invasion of privacy and she will be humiliated and lose face. Never ever do this to a Thai. Read phetaroi's advice. It is all you need to know. There is an administration at your school and it is their duty and legal obligation to respond if the subject is raised. Maybe they won't respond, but there are procedures to be followed and you have to follow those procedures first and give them a chance. To do otherwise also puts you at risk of being seen as a troublemaker because you didn't respect the hierarchy. If you understand Thais, then you will appreciate that they take hierarchy and reporting structures seriously. Work within the system. The teacher is not Thai. Let's clarify; the woman is Thai, but the man harrassing her is not Thai. Correct? Because if that's the case then he's on a hiding to nothing if he really (and I have no reason not to believe you) does make her cry everyday with his sexual harrassment, as you said. If; the woman in not Thai, but the man is, then it's an even more impossible situation then I previously thought and she needs to leave today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) How do you reason with a piss taking manipulitive stalker with severe control issues ? On a serious note though, I tink it is important that people document all of the shit that he is doing, and It is unlikely that this behaviour is a first. Speak with some of the other teachers discreetly. I may have missed it, but where is the guy from? Sounds like a nast situation, but this guy needs to be sorted out, properly. Edited August 13, 2009 by Scott inappropriate remark removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkofdavid2 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Shouldn't have blatantly stuck your nose in this affair... You should've discreetly taken footage with your phone camera, blurred her face in the recording to protect her dignity, and then YOUTUBEd it! That'd teach him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkangorito Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) You made a mistake. It would've been better if you simply asked, without any hint of knowing what was going on, "Can I help you in any way?" If the answer was "no", forget it & move on. If the answer was "yes", ask how you can help. I thought it was well known that sticking your nose in other people's business is likely to cause trouble! It's egotistical to want to be seen as "someone who cares". This type of self gratification is harmful to all concerned. This problem would not have been a problem had the OP minded his/her own business. It's one thing to interfere in anothers personal & private affairs but it becomes an entirely different story when one actively interferes WITHOUT ASKING PERMISSION to do so. This why I said, "Can I help you in any way?". In this way, the purported "victim" has a say in the matter, whether they lie or not. Assuming the "victim" is an adult, the answer will provide a "next move". I hope that nobody decides to stick their nose in my business, no matter how upset I appear to be. If I need help, I'll ask for it OR I'll listen to suggestions. At the end of the day, I will have some choices. I will NOT have any choices if some "nosey Parker" summarily decides what is good for me. Edited August 13, 2009 by elkangorito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Shouldn't have blatantly stuck your nose in this affair...You should've discreetly taken footage with your phone camera, blurred her face in the recording to protect her dignity, and then YOUTUBEd it! That'd teach him.. I didn't blatantly stick my nose in it. I simply recognised a problem and offered to help reolve it, telephoncially, in confidence Some Thai thug followed me around inside the school today, thretened me and whispered insults. Yes, I only have myself to blame for this creeps actions. It's all my fault. blah blah blah. I could have recorded it, but he will simply go to another school and repeat his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 You made a mistake. It would've been better if you simply asked, without any hint of knowing what was going on, "Can I help you in any way?" If the answer was "no", forget it & move on. If the answer was "yes", ask how you can help. I thought it was well known that sticking your nose in other people's business is likely to cause trouble! It's egotistical to want to be seen as "someone who cares". This type of self gratification is harmful to all concerned. This problem would not have been a problem had the OP minded his/her own business. It's one thing to interfere in anothers personal & private affairs but it becomes an entirely different story when one actively interferes WITHOUT ASKING PERMISSION to do so. This why I said, "Can I help you in any way?". In this way, the purported "victim" has a say in the matter, whether they lie or not. Assuming the "victim" is an adult, the answer will provide a "next move". I hope that nobody decides to stick their nose in my business, no matter how upset I appear to be. If I need help, I'll ask for it OR I'll listen to suggestions. At the end of the day, I will have some choices. I will NOT have any choices if some "nosey Parker" summarily decides what is good for me. Basically, you are talking nonesense. Some people do need help. Some people do need a nudge in the right direction to improve their lives. Some people do not have to suffer abuse. The sufferers of abuse often think that they deserve the treatment that they are being dished out. Everyone has a choice, but it sometimes takes the right person to say the right thing at the right time to help someone escape from a life of abuse. The cycle continues. Would you simply ignore such problems through fear of being a 'nosey parker'? People being abused or harrased do not generally ask for help as they are conditioned to believe that they deserve the treatment they recieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkangorito Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Shouldn't have blatantly stuck your nose in this affair...You should've discreetly taken footage with your phone camera, blurred her face in the recording to protect her dignity, and then YOUTUBEd it! That'd teach him.. I didn't blatantly stick my nose in it. I simply recognised a problem and offered to help reolve it, telephoncially, in confidence Some Thai thug followed me around inside the school today, thretened me and whispered insults. Yes, I only have myself to blame for this creeps actions. It's all my fault. blah blah blah. I could have recorded it, but he will simply go to another school and repeat his actions. You are now reaping what you have sewn. Edited August 13, 2009 by elkangorito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Shouldn't have blatantly stuck your nose in this affair...You should've discreetly taken footage with your phone camera, blurred her face in the recording to protect her dignity, and then YOUTUBEd it! That'd teach him.. I didn't blatantly stick my nose in it. I simply recognised a problem and offered to help reolve it, telephoncially, in confidence Some Thai thug followed me around inside the school today, thretened me and whispered insults. Yes, I only have myself to blame for this creeps actions. It's all my fault. blah blah blah. I could have recorded it, but he will simply go to another school and repeat his actions. You are now reaping what you have sewn. Yes, right, I created a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasreeve17 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Relax geeky, everyone makes mistakes (I make loads...) just make sure you learn from the experience. Thailand is not the same as back home you must very carefully think through your actions and their results before conflicting with folk here. Worse thing from this situation back home would likely be a black eye, here... Can you please make it clear: is the female teacher Thai (yes or no) and is the male teacher Thai (yes or no) - this is important and will drastically impact the situation. If the female teacher is not Thai and the male teacher is then both you and her are in a potentially dangerous situation I'm afraid. Lastly, what Thai guy has been harrassing you today? Another teacher? Friend of the male teacher from outside of the school? Any idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkangorito Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I really don't see how it makes any difference if one person is Thai & the other is not. It still boils down to "interference". Two adults can have problems...anywhere. The way I see it, the OP "decided" to "help" without thinking about future consequences. Helping is great but without the permission of the person who needs help, it's nothing but "interference" between two other adults, who are obviously quite capable of dealing with "life". Of course, should one of these "adults" ask for help, this is a different matter. But in this situation, one can only ask for help if they are given the opportunity to do so. To "summarily" decide who (which "adult") needs help & then "summarily" act upon this, is nothing less than "interference". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The think the OP has received ample advice on the subject and it's starting to go off-topic. Thanks to all for your comments. Topic Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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