Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

[baht&sold]

Pheu Thai MP predicts Thaksin's return in three months following an upheaval

Pheu Thai MP Pracha Prasopdee on Thursday said he anticipated ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra to stage a comeback following the political upheaval expected within three months.

"Today (Thaksin's) shoes and clothes are already packed and his return might be facilitated by a pardon or an amnesty; the slate must be wiped clean, just you watch the next three months," he said.

Pracha said in his assessment, the upheaval will erupt either by riots involving the grass roots or by a coup.

The Nation http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...rn-in-three-mon

[noahvail]

Live with it Tawp.

I stand strongly behind this opinion, and in a totally unencumbered media discussion forum, I would be fully capable of defending the position.

I find there are very few encumberances here, and most can be worked around in a legitimate way. Please, defend you position.

[Jingthing]

I stand strongly behind this opinion, and in a totally unencumbered media discussion forum, I would be fully capable of defending the position.

Yeah, sure. The western world SUPPORTS the Iranian dissidents, while at the same time REFUSES entry to the rogue revolutionary Thaksin. They are not the same situations by a long shot. Where are the red shirts who were shot in the streets during Black Songkran? Where? Where? Where? In Thailand it was the red thug revolutionaries who were violent. In Iran, it was the government goons. During the outrageous Black Songkran led by fugitive Thaksin, the legitimate government of Abhisit showed almost saintlike RESTRAINT. Again, NO COMPARISON.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Jingthing

[Ferwert]

Live with it Tawp.

I stand strongly behind this opinion, and in a totally unencumbered media discussion forum, I would be fully capable of defending the position.

I find there are very few encumberances here, and most can be worked around in a legitimate way. Please, defend you position.

I would just LOVE to do that noahvail.

But the rules on this discussion forumn are very clear.

"..........most can be worked around in a legitimate way"......................I've been thinking noahvail, and I must respectfully decline.

Considering the strength of my opinion in this case, it would give me great pleasure to expound on it.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Ferwert

[Jingthing]

We all know what Mr. F means. It is true, there are limitations. But even without those limitations, there is no slam dunk argument that the VIOLENT red shirt Thaksinistas are the moral equivalent of the heroic Iranian protesters. in fact, Thaksin's moral ground is deep down in the GUTTER.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Jingthing

[noahvail]

We all know what Mr. F means. It is true, there are limitations. But even without those limitations, there is no slam dunk argument that the VIOLENT red shirt Thaksinistas are the moral equivalent of the heroic Iranian protesters. in fact, Thaksin's moral ground is deep down in the GUTTER.

Agreed, Jingthing, there are limitations. But when there are relatively few, most of which can be worked around legitimately, and when most moderators will let things run their course at least for a while, then it would appear that the good Mr Fernwert is hiding behind those few limitations. Please don't consider this an ad hominen attack, Mr Fernwert; I respect your ability to get your point across. I just wish that you would do so, else it seems much like smoke and mirrors, which is generally not your modus operandi.

[Ferwert]

We all know what Mr. F means. It is true, there are limitations. But even without those limitations, there is no slam dunk argument that the VIOLENT red shirt Thaksinistas are the moral equivalent of the heroic Iranian protesters. in fact, Thaksin's moral ground is deep down in the GUTTER.

Agreed, Jingthing, there are limitations. But when there are relatively few, most of which can be worked around legitimately, and when most moderators will let things run their course at least for a while, then it would appear that the good Mr Fernwert is hiding behind those few limitations. Please don't consider this an ad hominen attack, Mr Fernwert; I respect your ability to get your point across. I just wish that you would do so, else it seems much like smoke and mirrors, which is generally not your modus operandi.

Yes, I know it can be perceived as smoke and mirrors, and also thank you, that is not my usual MO.

But the major premise of my analysis which would be my starting point..................................

[Koo82]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

Always peaceful if the 3rd hands don't come near them.

[animatic]

Pheu Thai MP predicts Thaksin's return in three months following an upheaval

Pheu Thai MP Pracha Prasopdee on Thursday said he anticipated ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra to stage a comeback following the political upheaval expected within three months.

"Today (Thaksin's) shoes and clothes are already packed and his return might be facilitated by a pardon or an amnesty; the slate must be wiped clean, just you watch the next three months," he said.

Pracha said in his assessment, the upheaval will erupt either by riots involving the grass roots or by a coup.

The Nation http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...rn-in-three-mon

Yes now they even have the audacity to PREDICT the "Political Upheaval expected within three months."

So they know when the riots and chaos will start because that 'coincides with the decisions of 'Thaksin's Money' on the block'.

Mere coincidense, dont' bet the farm on that premise.

This is a wholly manufactured problem and the lives of hundreds of avaerag Somchai's at minimum are being put at risk for

one man's overweening avarice and lust for power, and the minions desiring to ride his glorious reddened coattails to fame and fortune.

Shoes and clothes already packed... what is he THAT sure something will POP for him.

So Kuhn Pracha is saying riots or coup. Make that Re-Coup.

What does this guy think he knows that we don't.

The slate "MUST" more threats here not so thinly veiled by Thai standards.

But I can't imagine that the other side isn't making their pre-emptive moves also.

Looks like more exiles and trials are in the cards for our winter reading pleasure.

[Koo82]

The total of petitions now exceed six (6) million.

That mean about 10% of the population has signed the petition yet nobody has noticed a request to sign in the past weeks or knows how the petitions look like.

The red leaders talk about the petition on Truth Today Monday through Friday for more than 1 month. They still talk about that subject now until 17th August. After submitting, they will no longer talk about this petition. They read the entire petition, explained it is legal as said in Constitution Law, and said who don't understand or don't support the idea don't need to sign. They told the online address for the reds to download. They have one copy in each Truth Today Magazine. They brought the forms to red meetings in provinces so people could come, read and sign and at the same time they explained on the stage in the meetings.

The wording is the easiest Thai for even an uneducated labor can understand with no effort.

What they do is open. No one is forced or paid to sign. They don't accept more petition after 31st July as they keep their word. If you see the reds signing something in the meeting now, it's another form to show the support if the person could not sign the petition.

[sriracha john]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

Always peaceful

These violent Red Shirters reported on in this Reuters Video News must not have gotten that memo...

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=108134

[Plus]

Is "Pheu Thai MP Pracha Prasopdee" predicting riots a third hand?

>>>

Reds WILL have to do something on Monday 17.

The govt might simply say "We need time to verify the signatures" and put in on the back burner for months. Reds can't wait that long.

At least they will publicly announce a plan of action, or, most likely, start a new round of protests against the government, small in the beginning, then surround govt house, then moving on to other targets.

One thing they WON'T do - disperse quietly and wait for the outcome of the pardon petition.

There might be a "surprise", there might be not, but they will have to do something - November is drawing close and closer and they need to start early to build a momentum. It was sited as one of the reasons they failed in April - the escalated too fast.

[Plus]

They don't accept more petition after 31st July as they keep their word.

Then how come the number increased from 5.2 million to 6?

[Artisi]

They don't accept more petition after 31st July as they keep their word.

Then how come the number increased from 5.2 million to 6?

Don't ever let the truth get in the way of a good story or in this case - lie.

[TAWP]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

Always peaceful if the 3rd hands don't come near them.

Ah, yes, the third hand that always manages to masturbate up the masses into a frenzy so they start attacking things with no will of their own.

[Ferwert]

"BTW, not being fan of red or yellow.........."

This is often the position of PAD/old paternalistic politics sympathisers. A pox on all their houses to such an extent, that the groundwork can be laid for their undemocratic, paternalistic appointive option.

Surely some posters who claim "not being fan of red or yellow" are simply stating the truth, that they don't view themselves as being supporters of either extreme, of this damaging split in the country ?

I rest my case. Trying to characterize these two political entities as being politically extreme, conveniently diminishes the pro-democracy electoral politics of the Red Shirts....the next step....some watered down version which in effect eliminates elections - such as the PAD 70-30 appointive process. Either you are for electoral democracy or not. To consign the people who are fighting to protect their human right to have an electoral based voice in who governs them to some inconsequential fringe extremist element is in effect advocating against electoral politics and democracy.

"This would of course bring back the yellows....."

Yes, I am sure anti-democratic forces would not be happy with a return to Democratic, electoral politics. But as opposed to the pro-democracy red Shirts being a

grassroots people's movement, the anti-democratic PAD are controlled by elitist elements, and hence can be activated at will, or not.

Would it disturb you to learn, many PAD-supporters still view themselves as being grass-roots pro-democracy, But the PAD is an anti-democratic organization, advocating the removal of voting rights from large swaths of Thai society. How can you be in bed with them and be pro-democracy?????Doesn't make sense. just as much as you view the Red-Shirts to be ? Personally I suspect that there are many democrats, in both groups, It is my contention that one-person-one-vote electoral democracy advocates are in the Red Shirt movement only...Not in the PAD!the main difference simply being how they view Thaksin & his intentions.

And wasn't the return to normal electoral politics welcomed equally by the Democrats & PAD, yeah it was until Samak was elected. dam_n that was inconvenient for them when they had all the media on their side emitting a barrage of pro-democrat and anti-Samak propaganda. It was clear that a paternalistic appointive process needed to be adopted. They knew what was best for Thailand, and especially for those intellectually challenged dolts from the NE. Those 'dolts' dont know what is in their best interests. The PAD and friends know that better.as well as the PPP and minor-parties, when the junta-appointed government returned power to the electorate ?

Until someone, somewhere

declares that Thailand is an electoral democracy, these anti-democratic forces will always threaten. What is Thailand: an electoral Democracy or not? That is the

larger question. Until someone declares the end of electoral democracy, it remains in place, bringing us back to the extreme need for elections.

I would refer you to the comments of the former-PM, who openly declared that "Democracy is not my aim", and later organised an election which the E.C. annulled for vote-rigging. He openly spoke of the end of democracy, and intending his party to remain in-power for 20 years, his later actions then matched his words.

So why would you now support him ? Primarily I am a pro-democracy and pro-electoral politics advocate. I also happen to think Thaksin was the best Prime Minister Thailand ever had. Oh yes ... he now claims to espouse democracy after all, not that he ever didn't, and you believe him.

But many other people don't. So must they all be "paternalistic politics sympathisers" ? Or are there perhaps more possibilities than you want to conceed ?

My comments above in red.

Ferwert's comments in blue

[Samuian]

To give the impression to Thai people that the world is behind Thaksin, when actually the world thinks Thaksin is a behind. Another symptom of his severe Mandela complex ...

And worse - to make the people think Thaksin is behind this nation and it's people -

just another Stunt of this Comedian or Con-Artist?!

He is going through all the trickery, Nationalism, Patriotism, Heroism - he's trying to convince

the people he has been victimized by the "Ones who forgot you"... I am your savior!

....well the show goes on - and he seems to lose his marbles day by day some more..

[tominbkk]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

Always peaceful if the 3rd hands don't come near them.

So third hands were behind gay bashing in Chiang Mai, gate crashing an ASEAN event, destroying buses and buildings and shooting innocent bystanders just trying to protect their own property? give me a break, the red shits are exactly what their name implies.

[animatic]

Of course it is an easy sell to say ;

Opposing those who manipulatively ADD Democracy to their other more disingenuous and spurious aims,

can be made to seem anti-Democratic by design. It is the plan ;

add democracy and all disagreements should be over-ridden by those magic words repeatedly.

But that is a side goal, that is not the whole ballgame. Means to an end nothing more.

"Democracy is not my aim."

When 'by design' a false flag of democracy advocation,

is grafted onto old school kow tow power plays

little different than the opposition, but greatly more profit motivated,

utilizing rose colored looks back at a distorted view of the past to mislead the under-informed,

and then using a basically spent and irrelevant opposition faction repeatedly as a wiping boy,

and boggieman, AND as the only REFERENCE points they have to keep on message,

there is no reality to the argument. Certainly no actual sincerity from the top.

Even as the average Somchai has been lead down the garden path as a means to an end;

POWER for the titular god head and lord.

Nothing more than manipulation of the masses for profit in a more simple, yet sinister, metaphor.

It is PR Propaganda: twisting a modified version of the past to support abuse of society in the present.

Not the proper kind of motus operandi of a true Democratic patriot of ANY nation.

Not the actions of a leadership looking to truly HELP the common man to a better life.

No philosophical, subjunctive, creeping epiphyte, can convince me otherwise.

Edited August 14, 2009 by animatic

[george]

29 permanent-secretary-level officials agianst Thaksin petition

BANGKOK: -- All 29 senior-most officials at the level of permanent secretary issued a statement opposing the pardon petition and calling for an intercession for the document not to reach the King.

The statement said the petition was designed to involve the monarchy in the political struggle.

Regardless of the royal discretion to react to the petition, be it favourable, unfavourable and absention, doubts will remain about the impartiality of the monarchy because the pardon in question has been turned into a political agenda.

It is a duty of every citizen and the civil service to uphold the monarchy above and beyond politics.

The 29 cosigners of the statement have pledged not to allow the politically-motivated petition to tarnish the integrity of the monarchy.

The petition, if allowed to proceed to reach the attention of the King, will cause irreparable damage to the country's revered institution.

-- The Nation 2009-08-14

[Scott]

I wonder if there is a course of action they have in mind. Things seem to be heating up in Thailand again, and I am not talking about the weather.

[basjke]

At this time,friday night,there is a huge red shirt rally going on at Pattaya.And when I say huge I mean lots and lots of people present.Also lots a police present with combat equipment posted at the entrance of the grounds and very visible to everybody passing the place.

I guess there are a few hundred vehicles parked around the venue so there could be easily over a thousand attenders.

Only strange thing I notice that ALMOST NONE of the vehicles parked have a chonburi license plate.

This probably is a sign that they don't have much supporters around and just have their own clan travelling from location to location.

Might it be that those same clan also sign the petition every time again and again,otherwise I can not understand how they got to 6 million signatures.

[churchill]

Police plan response for UDD petition handover

Writer: AEKARACH SATTABURUTH

Published: 15/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: NewsPolice are ready to secure the capital when Thaksin Shinawatra supporters file a petition for his pardon at the Royal Household Bureau and opponents gather at the nearby Supreme Court on Monday.

Acting national police chief Wichien Pojphosri yesterday said he had discussed a security plan with the Bangkok police, the 1st Army, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration and the Royal Household Bureau.

He said an official of the Royal Household Bureau will wait at the Wiset Chaisri gate of the Grand Palace, the location of the bureau, and red shirt demonstrators will not be allowed through the gate to reach the bureau.

Pol Gen Wichien asked demonstrators to maintain order and warned them not to approach the Grand Palace in huge numbers.

continued

-- Bangkok Post 15/08/09http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/22069/police-plan-response-for-udd-petition-handover

[hammered]

I wonder if there is a course of action they have in mind. Things seem to be heating up in Thailand again, and I am not talking about the weather.

It is a very very delicate time and bear in mind there are not just two distinct sides as some like to present. It is difficult to predict what will happen but as barring no sudden change in alliances nobody seems to have the pure power to come out on top wihtout alliances maybe the situation we have now will continue.

[peecee]

At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

Propaganda. To give the impression to Thai people that the world is behind Thaksin, when actually the world thinks Thaksin is a behind. Another symptom of his severe Mandela complex ...

I think they mean Thai national flags. Your not going to see people with other flags over Thai soil. I would be shocked. Even when we has US bases here there was no US flag over most of them. A few had a special condition which allowed it flown under the Thai flag.

In 1945 the RAF Ensign flew at RAF Don Muang at the surrender of Thailand to Allied forces, I think on the 17th or possibly the 16th August! They left 6 month's later with a few bag's of rice & King Power moved in!!

Edited August 16, 2009 by peecee

[steveromagnino]

......not being fan of red or yellow.........."[/u] (someone else said this)

This is often the position of PAD/old paternalistic politics sympathisers. A pox on all their houses to such an extent, that the groundwork can be laid for their undemocratic, paternalistic appointive option.

Surely some posters who claim "not being fan of red or yellow" are simply stating the truth, that they don't view themselves as being supporters of either extreme, of this damaging split in the country ? (someone else said this)

I rest my case. Trying to characterize these two political entities as being politically extreme, conveniently diminishes the pro-democracy electoral politics of the Red Shirts....the next step....some watered down version which in effect eliminates elections - such as the PAD 70-30 appointive process. Either you are for electoral democracy or not. To consign the people who are fighting to protect their human right to have an electoral based voice in who governs them to some inconsequential fringe extremist element is in effect advocating against electoral politics and democracy.

My good friend is a stuanch democrat. He strongl believes that the best thing for Thailand is a return to elections, fair and impartial elections with good controls, and he thinks that the PAD 70:30 idea was about the most retarded thing he'd heard.

He cannot wait to see a strong and wise PM get into power that will lead the country forward, and eliminate all the vote buying measures so popular since 2001. He wishes to see a fully deregulated market, and complete insistance on the rule of law.

For this reason, he absolutely hates Thaksin and believes Thaksin and his cabinet to have proven themselves one of the most self serving least effective governments in the history of Thailand. With the power to do anything, they only chose to take steps that would somehow enrich themselves. He also has an economics and finance knowledge that far outstretches any of the posters in this thread most likely, and so speaks from a position of knowledge and education.

Therefore, he is very very happy to see democracy, as long as criminals such as Newin, Thaksin and Samak can't be a part of it. he also wishes to see this illegal petition struck down and thrown away. He doesn't mind which constitution is used; either has enough grounds to provide a basis on which to prosecute corruption and in particular, so long as the cases are given a fair hearing, he doesn't mind to see either constitution used as a basis from which to prosecute past governments and past actions of certain individuals which are against the law.

The role of a democracy, he says, is rule for the people by the people but the people have to be accountable for their actions and work for the people, not for themselves.

Therefore, since he is so pro democracy he, by your definition, is a red shirt. Should I tell him to wear his 'Thaksin f&*k off to jail big boy' shirt today and head down to fight for this petition to be thrown out? because he hates Thaksin as much as he loves democracy.

Given how peaceful the red shirts are, are you sure he will be welcomed?

What do you think?

[TAWP]

Koo82 says the Red is completely peaceful and probably wouldn't mind escorting your friend to prove the point.

[steveromagnino]

Koo82 says the Red is completely peaceful and probably wouldn't mind escorting your friend to prove the point.

Great, I was really worried for a while but since they are only there campaigning for democracy and freedom, so no doubt my friend will be most welcome to show up wearing whatever he chooses so long as he is there to push democracy.

What a relief!

[johwel]

This morning I saw a bakkie full of red shirts and a national flag, coming from the residence next to my place... They are closer than I thought, almost my neighbours. May I also add, it isn't a poor area at all. Anyway, now I've searched to see what is going on and got to this topic.

[churchill]

some photos http://www.prachatai.com/journal/2009/08/25482