Abhisit Asks Airport Officials To End Malpractice Problems, Scams

[caf]

PM asks airport officials to end malpractice problems, scams

and government officials acting as influential figures

-- TNA 2009-08-16

Until such times when the defamation laws might be repealed the problem of endemic corruption will never be properly addressed and the myriad scams, highlighted by the practices at the airport, will persist.

Of course, we all know that that will never happen since those laws are there solely to protect the Establishment in its systematic exploitation of the population. In any free democratic state operating under a rule of law there are occasions when the system fails which is when a free press steps in and turns over the rock to expose unwelcome abuses and crimes the Establishment would prefer to remain undiscovered.

But true investigative journalism cannot prevail in Thailand which is why we have the nonsense of government officials being described euphemistically when in truth they are nothing more than corrupt thieves abusing positions of trust in order to line their own pockets. Their power of course is derived not from an authority bestowing a benefit based upon merit but from a system itself so corrupted by cronyism, noblesse oblige and nepotism that it can only maintain itself by perpetuating a culture of corruption upon which it has been based since feudal times. Thus they are immune from State prosecution and, because of a gagged press, unwanted public opprobrium is also ensured.

Thailand is a still a medieval state and as such one's interests are inevitably dependent upon the whim of whichever particular baron or lord owns one's ricebowl.

Oh for goodness sake, which bit of this did most of you not understand?

Most understood.

[leicester]

Has the main culprit 'Tony', the helpful translator, been locked up yet or is he getting away with the 150 cases he states that he has been involved in this year??

Make an example of this guy and hopefully that will deter others.

Cheats never prosper supposedly - but here in the LOS, that's how wealth is most easily borne.

[kangeroo]

Having no more scams is like holding back the tide e.g the officials turn a blind eye except when there is something in it for them . but thai would not be the only place that has a problem in that regard .

[thaimate]

About time but maybe too little and too late. What about transferreing the local police chief to Nakorn Nowhere and arresting the Sri Lankan dirt bag, who claimed to be called Tony, who acted as the police go betweenin the King Power scams? He is bound to be guilty of work permit and visa offences as well as failing to pay income tax on his share of the extortion proceeds.

I fear that Abhisit is seen as such a weakling by all the crooks that their scams will be up and running again in two weeks.

I agree.

"Mark" is much like Bill Clinton. Clinton was very good at introducing popular changes but the statements were purely made for the "feel good" effect. Clinton almost never followed up on his numerous "changes". Clinton's changes disappeared and a new one appeared the following week. It appears this PM is walking the same path. Soon it will be obvious that he is completely ineffective.

We have one like that in Britain ,he is called Gordon Brown .

[spidermike007]

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start.

[leebeeUK]

...but he really really really blummin' well means it this time!!!

Edited August 17, 2009 by leebeeUK

[Ga-gai]

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start.

Well, I think it's true what good old Thaksin once said in an interview on Time Magazine; -Corruption is a part of the Thai culture.

I believe he's right on that. Even total corruption offers an ecosystem that can hold a society together, as long as everyone is involved into it and do what the others are doing. And that is probably the problem with Thailand. It's a spaghetti mess of corruption where everyone is more or less using or depending on it. If you're in a power position in this country, you've surely been using the corrupted system to get into that power. If you then start messing around or decides to exterminate all corruption in the country, it will hit back on yourself. Also, if the corruption suddenly would be removed, the whole society and its structures would collapse fall apart. Besides... Anyone here that haven't paid 100 baht to a policeman because you were driving past the speed limit? If you like the good part of corruption, you also have to deal with the bad parts sooner or later. The other side of the coin. If you want to get rid of corruption, you have to stop using it yourself. And for Thais, that is not an option. At least until everyone is stop using corruption at the same time. Otherwise the one who is not using the system, will lose.

The dream of an uncorrupted state or region, is just a dream. USA is corrupted, where those with money or the right background and contacts, corporations, etc easily dictates what laws there is to be passed. USA is the only western country that doesn't have any governmental health security program. The reason is that the insurance companies doesn't want that, because they are making billions on ripping off their policy holders. And the US constitution is already broken by the ones who swore to protect it. And... Wasn't dearest Thaksin a personal friend to George Bush? I believe the EU is to become the same one day, because the French (and others) EU politicians are doing their best to make the EU union as corrupted as possible and distancing the people from the politicians.

[sangfroid]

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced.

China routinely tries, and if found guilty, executes corrupt CEOs, government and other officials. Although they are reported in the Western media, these executions are rarely, if ever reported in the press here in Thailand. A bit too close to the Thai bone I think

[sunsetlover]

Yes!! But it is unlikely to ever happen (any change) Corruption is built into the Thai psyche.

Try living with 5000 Baht in a month or less and support your family back in home at the same time. I'd bet you would be collecting all kinds of "fees" pretty soon if you were a cop here. Of course it is wrong but being hungry makes people do all kinds of things.

The problem is the ridiculous low salaries but if those salaries were any better, you guys would complain why Thailand is so expensive. Then you would complain about corruption in Cambodia. You cannot have it both ways. Corruption is a big problem all the countries in which the salaries are too low.

It is even big problem even in the US where Wall Street has basically bought the whole system and are given hundreds of billions to pay big bonuses to banksters by the US government! So maybe corruption is also built into American psyche too? Or European psyche when dealing with EU support money for various shady projects all around?

The difference is that the legal and judicial system in the US still WORKS! Try to put a Thai "Maddoff" in jail for example, he'll buy out the prosecutor, the judges and then the whole government!

Corruption is not the problem in the US, "greed" maybe

[Sturbuc]

Hot topic I think!

...

Please kick these limo-guys out!! and give CLEAR info where tourist can get a normal taxi, for a normal price (on the meter).

...

Well, i'm sorry but when i'm booking a trip somewehere, i shoud have to inform myself where (and how) to go.

scams like this are very common all over the world. Years ago many meters are manipulated in an european Capital.

And in many city's it's very common for some drivers to take the most profitable way. Be aware to be asked "it's your first time here...".

So there are always two - the scammer and the victim. Take care.

BTW.: i don't really believe everything turns to the better now. Still have the same people working there.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Sturbuc

[Sturbuc]

I agree.

"Mark" is much like Bill Clinton. Clinton was very good at introducing popular changes but the statements were purely made for the "feel good" effect. Clinton almost never followed up on his numerous "changes". Clinton's changes disappeared and a new one appeared the following week. It appears this PM is walking the same path. Soon it will be obvious that he is completely ineffective.

And later there was the famous Mr Bush....

[andyww]

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an Anyone here that haven't paid 100 baht to a policeman because you were driving past the speed limit? If you like the good part of corruption, you also have to deal with the bad parts sooner or later.

Indeed. Same goes for the pay-for-pleasure scene which is allowed to exist because of corruption.

Thought it was time to bring sex into this thread as its the only subject not covered here yet....

[SHYTALK]

"Clean up the airport? - Thats a laugh from the guy who stole the premiership!"

The whole country wants cleaning up , its corrupt from top to bottom, a few brush strokes at the airport are not going to change the international view of thailand.

Look at yourself hypochrit abist before you judge others.

[wrecker]

a lovely country. In any civilized country the culprits are caught and brought to justice. Of course King Power is sponsoring all democratic senators and MP's with 100,000 baht (according Sondhi) but telling them to stop instead of bringing them to court is beautiful.

[chiang mai]

Yes!! But it is unlikely to ever happen (any change) Corruption is built into the Thai psyche.

Try living with 5000 Baht in a month or less and support your family back in home at the same time. I'd bet you would be collecting all kinds of "fees" pretty soon if you were a cop here. Of course it is wrong but being hungry makes people do all kinds of things.

The problem is the ridiculous low salaries but if those salaries were any better, you guys would complain why Thailand is so expensive. Then you would complain about corruption in Cambodia. You cannot have it both ways. Corruption is a big problem all the countries in which the salaries are too low.

It is even big problem even in the US where Wall Street has basically bought the whole system and are given hundreds of billions to pay big bonuses to banksters by the US government! So maybe corruption is also built into American psyche too? Or European psyche when dealing with EU support money for various shady projects all around?

This is pretty stupid excuse to be immoral and criminal

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

[catmac]

Yes!! But it is unlikely to ever happen (any change) Corruption is built into the Thai psyche.

Try living with 5000 Baht in a month or less and support your family back in home at the same time. I'd bet you would be collecting all kinds of "fees" pretty soon if you were a cop here. Of course it is wrong but being hungry makes people do all kinds of things.

The problem is the ridiculous low salaries but if those salaries were any better, you guys would complain why Thailand is so expensive. Then you would complain about corruption in Cambodia. You cannot have it both ways. Corruption is a big problem all the countries in which the salaries are too low.

It is even big problem even in the US where Wall Street has basically bought the whole system and are given hundreds of billions to pay big bonuses to banksters by the US government! So maybe corruption is also built into American psyche too? Or European psyche when dealing with EU support money for various shady projects all around?

This is pretty stupid excuse to be immoral and criminal

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

That's a total slur on poor people, Chiang Mai. Just because you are poor, doesn't mean you inevitably turn to crime. My grand-mother was as poor as can be. My mother grew up in grinding poverty in the 30's, yet they didn't turn to crime. Instead they tried their hardest to do the best they could for their kids, and were active politically for social reform.

Thailand is NOT an impoverished country, far from it. The problem here is one of gross inequality in wealth distribution. The ruling elite (few of whom are true Thais!) control almost the total wealth of the country, and make damned sure that the rest are kept down in poverty and misery, and that their educational opportunities are kept low.

Solve that problem, and the need for crime and scamming will go too.

Maybe that's why the one man who ever acknowledged the needs of the rural poor was hounded and demonised beyond belief by that same elite.

[Gonzo the Face]

catmac

Maybe that's why the one man who ever acknowledged the needs of the rural poor was hounded and demonised beyond belief by that same elite.

==========

Yea we know. Your boy was just saving all those billions of baht in his off shore accounts, just waiting until the time came when HE thought the poor would know what money was.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Gonzo the Face

[KireB]

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

What an utter nonsense! Unless we are talking starvation-poor, crime is purely an act of greed and ego-centrism

The biggest thieves around are too often the least poor!

See your boy Thaksin for example.

[ryladie99]

PM asks airport officials to end malpractice problems, scams

BANGKOK: -- Faced by a number of negative reports appearing in international media about malpractice problems and scams taking place at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi international airport, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Saturday ordered airport officials to resolve the problems and restore confidence among foreign tourists.

After inspecting airport facilities and talking with airport authorities on problem-areas including duty-free shops, unlicensed taxis, baggage theft and government officials acting as influential figures, Mr. Abhisit said guidelines would be laid out so that transparency and tourist confidence could be restored at the airport.

"Measures must be issued so that thiefs could not carry out their crimes," Mr Abhisit said. "Duty-free shops must clearly display prices, cashiers counters, and signs specifying where merchandise cannot be removed," said Mr. Abhisit.

He said airport authorities were told to install more surveillance cameras to help prevent baggage thefts.

An international news report recently said that a number of European tourists – British, Danish and Irish in particular – reported they were falsely accused of shoplifting at Suvarnabhumi international airport and some recounted being taken to seedy motels where they were shaken down for thousands of dollars by a shady middleman.

Poorly-defined boundaries between different businesses sharing the same zone in the airport means that shoppers can unknowingly carry items they intend to purchase from one shop to another, and suggestions from come complainants that such gray-zones are intended to produce apparent shoplifting situations in which tourists can be pressured in scams.

Britain and Denmark are warning tourists on official government websites about such problems at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

The facility opened in 2006 and has been dogged by corruption allegations, taxi touts with 'broken metres' and baggage thefts, prompting a recent order for luggage handlers to wear uniforms without pockets.

-- TNA 2009-08-16

Wow??? I am so happy to hear this sooo Good news....Thank you Your Honor for doing the right thing.....It's about time??? Hope it is working??? I went to bangkok in 2007 and had no idea about the problem...Thanks for the story?

[SHYTALK]

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

What an utter nonsense! Unless we are talking starvation-poor, crime is purely an act of greed and ego-centrism

The biggest thieves around are too often the least poor!

See your boy Thaksin for example.

Oh yea, and how many years of thai style poverty are you speaking from ?

I wouldn't like to have been born thai poor, and for sure there would have been no help for me from the thai elite.

What have you ever sold in the beer bars of thai and cambodia?

[KireB]

Oh yea, and how many years of thai style poverty are you speaking from ?

I wouldn't like to have been born thai poor, and for sure there would have been no help for me from the thai elite.

What have you ever sold in the beer bars of thai and cambodia?

Maybe you could rephrase your question about beer bars, cause its not very clear what you mean.

By no meaning am I trying to undermine the fate of the poorer parts of society, but to see theft and crime are synonyms of poverty is just insultive.

[Datsun240Z]

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start.

Nice post. Agree with you. Problem is changing a nations behaviour takes a longgggg time.

[jacquesparra]

I already warned all my friends to avoid shopping at this airport. Too dangerous. If we all tell our friends and family members about this problem it will be solved soon, because these idiots get bankrupt.

[chiang mai]

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

What an utter nonsense! Unless we are talking starvation-poor, crime is purely an act of greed and ego-centrism

The biggest thieves around are too often the least poor!

See your boy Thaksin for example.

I am indeed talking of starvation poor or near there to, there are hundreds of thousands of them in Thailand.

[caf]

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

What an utter nonsense! Unless we are talking starvation-poor, crime is purely an act of greed and ego-centrism

The biggest thieves around are too often the least poor!

See your boy Thaksin for example.

I am indeed talking of starvation poor or near there to, there are hundreds of thousands of them in Thailand.

Yes I agree. I have seen this also

But most expats do not have that experience which is why you are getting criticised. Other than suggest they take a look themselves and talk to more Thai people there is no answer.

Sometimes it is a human trait not to accept something outside one's own experience.

[SHYTALK]

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

What an utter nonsense! Unless we are talking starvation-poor, crime is purely an act of greed and ego-centrism

The biggest thieves around are too often the least poor!

See your boy Thaksin for example.

I am indeed talking of starvation poor or near there to, there are hundreds of thousands of them in Thailand.

Yes I agree. I have seen this also

Correct, it would be more appropriate for these guys to turn their fire on the corrupt thai elite, and their masters, than the starvation poor.

But most expats do not have that experience which is why you are getting criticised. Other than suggest they take a look themselves and talk to more Thai people there is no answer.

Sometimes it is a human trait not to accept something outside one's own experience.

[chiang mai]

Unless you've lived in poverty for say, 35 or 45 years of your life, how would you know?

What an utter nonsense! Unless we are talking starvation-poor, crime is purely an act of greed and ego-centrism

The biggest thieves around are too often the least poor!

See your boy Thaksin for example.

I am indeed talking of starvation poor or near there to, there are hundreds of thousands of them in Thailand.

Yes I agree. I have seen this also

But most expats do not have that experience which is why you are getting criticised. Other than suggest they take a look themselves and talk to more Thai people there is no answer.

Sometimes it is a human trait not to accept something outside one's own experience.

Solely for the sake of keeping this topic going, because, I do think that more expats need to understand this point:

I cannot begin to count the number of Westerners I have met under various situations in Thailand who have claimed to, "live here", "know Thailand well" and/or, "understand". When the conversations went to the next level of detail it was always clear that those people really had very little exposure to or experience of Thailand - been to Pattaya many times (four times a year or more) and always it was an airport to Pattaya trip by taxi and the same on the return after three or four weeks of "fun" - been to Phuket, seen Chiang Mai and of course, knows Sukhumvit well - one, maybe two visits or more to a rural village to see "the family" but always by taxi and boy, I can't wait to get back to civilization. It's laughable.

How can any of those people actually claim to have seen or begun to understand anything about Thailand as a country or as an economy or as a social environment. Nada I say! But some "experts" here may see things differently.

[KireB]

How can any of those people actually claim to have seen or begun to understand anything about Thailand as a country or as an economy or as a social environment. Nada I say! But some "experts" here may see things differently.

Some poverty experts like yourself that is!

Poverty leads to crime and corruption is just not true. Think about it, as it quite the opposite actually.

Crime and corruption lead to poverty!

Edited August 21, 2009 by KireB

[caf]

How can any of those people actually claim to have seen or begun to understand anything about Thailand as a country or as an economy or as a social environment. Nada I say! But some "experts" here may see things differently.

Some poverty experts like yourself that is!

Poverty leads to crime and corruption is just not true. Think about it, as it quite the opposite actually.

Crime and corruption lead to poverty!

Can you explain how someone who commits a crime or is corrupt becomes or creates poverty?

Generally, worldwide, there is a correlation between crime and poverty. The question is which creates which. I think poverty creates crime. You obviusly don't. So explain your hypothesis.

[brahmburgers]

Crime exists on all social strata levels, from the down-and-out tramp reeking of 3 day old urine, to the Bernie Madoffs and Shinawatres. Obviously upper crust crime reaps gazillion more dollars than taxi cheats.

The airport rip-offs appear to be coordinated by some low to mid-level sheisters. Taxi drivers are at the lower rungs of the social ladder, but generally not downtrodden, so rip-offs among their ranks are probably doing comfortably well as long as they're getting away with it.

The extortions re; Duty Free appear to be perpetrated by three factions:

>>> check-out tellers and others working with King Power

>>> compliant police, or others in authority posing as police

>>> Sri Lankan Tony, who is the lynchpin in the operation, as his personal account is where the extortion money is transferred to.

Perhaps there are others doing what Tony does. That's part of the reason top gov't people are requesting the general public (anyone who's been scammed) to step forward and offer additional info. I respect the gov't requests on this, though they're typically months behind the 8 ball. Readers of T.Visa (and others) have known about these extortions for months, and we've also known how damaging such reports are to tourism. Yet, it's expected that top officials would drag their feet for months - before appearing to take dynamic action. Oh well, better late than never.

Even with top gov't taking notice, some of the key perpetrators (Tony and the cops, for example) won't be disciplined. My guess is the most that will happen is some verbal admonitions for the naughty ones, then all will devolve back to 'biz as usual.'