The Us Dollar

[ray23]

Where did the money go the banks paid back?

[flying]

Where did the money go the banks paid back?

If you mean the money that a few repaid to tarp...

It is there & that is another point of contention.

When the money was returned many citizens asked that it be returned/canceled by the FED.

They the govt refused. Claiming that was in the original TARP that it need not be & will be held for further use. Both within this country & without at their discretion.

EDIT: The question I have to ask aside form the obvious related to the above is this..........

In the end of last year when the crisis was supposedly at its worst. The President (Bush) along with Obama, McCain Paulson et al

told us we did not want to see what they saw & we better get this TARP done or we will go straight to hel_l.

Well the TARP was passed & the money went out. Folks like Goldman benefited greatly via the 100 cents on the dollar AIG gave them. This was TARP $$$ in addition to what GS got directly. But funneled through AIG. Next GS is able to repay the TARP they took AND register profits so high that they are all in line for 700 thousand dollar bonuses this year.

Makes me wonder about the fairness of that. Also makes me wonder how bad was that hel_l we were headed for if we did not help them kill their competition.

If I remember correctly AIG gave them 13B They GS also had 10B from TARP

Then GS repaid their 10B & now show they are profitable? Where is the surprise?

Edited August 18, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

Hey Naam glad to have you aboard, did you get a chance to check the Bloomberg article?

Dollar was up yesterday down today, no surprise I think really to early to call this. We simply are not done yet.

i just read it Ray and i don't believe what some of the experts claim. that goes especially for those who claim "long maturities will gain".

as for the dollar up/down all what you have to do look at world markets. markets up = dollar down, markets down = dollar up. that applies since july 2008.

[sbk]

Off topic inflammatory posts have been deleted. I do believe the topic of this thread is the US dollar. Lets keep it that way, shall we?

[ray23]

Thanks Naam I have seen that a bit confusing, You would think when things go better the currency would increase not the case. But, then again you taught me that stocks and the economy are two different things, sure is holding true these days.

I was really hoping the TARP money would have been applied to the deficit. No things are not going as most people envisoned and the honeymoon is over. It has turned into a huge disappointment not only for us. But, the entire world I beleive. Ok saying this was the best option to attack and immidiate problem no end in sight.

Edited August 18, 2009 by ray23

[Naam]

Where did the money go the banks paid back?

If you mean the money that a few repaid to tarp... It is there & that is another point of contention.

When the money was returned many citizens asked that it be returned/canceled by the FED.

They the govt refused. Claiming that was in the original TARP that it need not be & will be held for further use. Both within this country & without at their discretion.

i have no idea what you are trying to tell us Flying. that applies especially to "held... whithin this country and without". please elaborate.

[Carmine6]

Sounds like the plan we had for he past eight years, didn't work well.

I don't think the behind the scenes plan actually was for a strengthening dollar back then. The trade deficit was growing by leaps and bounds and China had no incentive to let its currency strengthen. The status quo was just fine. They surely weren't going to do anything with the yuan just because the US asked.

Only when the dollar started weakening did they have incentive to start playing fairer. Note they had hundreds of millions of dollars in Treasuries and other dollar denominated bonds. If the dollar went up, not only would their exports be even cheaper, but their holdings would have gone up in value (ignoring the changing value of the assets themselves). But start taking the dollar down and not only did it make their exports more expensive, but their massive holdings of Treasuries lost value. So they had an economic incentive to start playing ball.

Seemed like saying "Ok China, you won't let the Yuan increase, we'll just devalue the dollar." Note that also helped with the big bugaboos like outsourcing to India, Boeing vs. Airbus, Caterpillar vs. Khomatsu, etc. Well unless you go too far of course - oil, housing.

[flying]

Where did the money go the banks paid back?

If you mean the money that a few repaid to tarp... It is there & that is another point of contention.

When the money was returned many citizens asked that it be returned/canceled by the FED.

They the govt refused. Claiming that was in the original TARP that it need not be & will be held for further use. Both within this country & without at their discretion.

i have no idea what you are trying to tell us Flying. that applies especially to "held... within this country and without". please elaborate.

Section one of my posts shows that returned funds are not returned to the general fund like it was suppose to be ...as understood by Congress.

Second part you asked about...Back when the TARP was drafted that was a big sticking point for many.

The use of TARP funds can be for Banks US & Foreign banks.

I remember the part folks really did not like on top of that was there was a no prosecution clause. Meaning that if in the future the American citizens decide this was not proper use they cannot prosecute.

The fact that TARP money can be used outside the US does not sit well with folks who feel they are being ultimately billed for it. Unless of course Geithner intends to tax other countries as well

I can try to find the exact articles but that was the gist of it. There is also much contention on capital hill that the *missing* funds were in fact sent abroad.

Do you remember Bernanke & some lady/high placed in the FED being grilled about xxx missing Billions? They could not say....

Just looked quickly & saw this which I believe is along the same lines.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20039.html

Edited August 19, 2009 by flying

[ray23]

What does Buffet have to say, pretty much the same thing we have been saying. No changes and the dollar is going down. The O is probably going to have to deal with this or he will be one time wonder boy. But, that being said it appears theat he is so busy trying to create a National Health care system, I'm not sure it will register.

So the wind is changing again, one day you have one expert saying it is going the next anothre expert saying it's doomed. So what chance does the average person on the street about this. They are in the dark about this aspect. I never even thought of exchange rates till moved here.

The person who casts the votes his not something they see to them a buck is a buck, not 44 baht or 26 baht. There are a lot more average people in the states, then people who deal with exchange rates.

When you really look at this, it is purchasing power that matters. For that dollar I can get more here then they can there at the moment. Cost of living is different in most countries. The guy making $5.00 a day here can do OK. That would buy transportation to work for most Americans.

The costs of running a business in the states, the UK, and E.U is much different then here. So how do you get to a equal playing field is it even possible. Americans can't buy if they don't have the money, I think they are begining to see that. So they are not wiolling to put that purchase on a piece of plastic. What it really costs is starting to ne recognized.

I use to think this was intersting to watch this unfold and learn as I could. Not interesting anymore to much at stake.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=a9mG8NMzMGTw

[flying]

Ray I was thinking of what you said about China the other day.

Without looking back at your post exactly I remember it was something to do with how China has more flexibility to control their money & interest.

Maybe this You Tube with Bernanke talking about how they send dollars to foreign central banks to help control ours is something you might like? It is also a bit flammable in the fact that the Florida congress man Alan Grayson is grilling Bernanke about a lack of knowing the exact figures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ECLxK2YTs

Then this version Again with Grayson doing the asking with the Vice Chair of the FED explaining how they cannot say who gets what as that is not a good idea to tell. It makes you wonder if the tail wags the dog or vice versa.

But the response from the congress man is funny ...calm but funny. I like Graysons approach in most of his questioning. The fact he is like all congress allowed 5 minutes is sad.

Lastly if your bored & have never heard Ron Paul.... Listen to his "what if" speech. To my mind it is absolutely logical & something Mr O should consider in regards to what you mention in your last post.

http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-02-13/ron-paul...ngress-what-if/

Edited August 19, 2009 by flying

[flying]

Lastly if your bored & have never heard Ron Paul.... Listen to his "what if" speech. To my mind it is absolutely logical & something Mr O should consider in regards to what you mention in your last post.

Ray23 I'm sorry but I just realized I posted the wrong video.

That What if video is good but more of a statement & not much about the dollar.

The video I meant to show you is this....

http://blog.puppetgov.com/2009/08/12/ron-p...ederal-reserve/

It is a CNN Live interview. Forget the title I do not know why it is there. While he is know for his bill to audit the FED this interview is not about that. Instead an alternative to trying to buy their way out of the crisis.

[ray23]

Ron Pauls interview I had seen,

Grayson I had not, that's insanity. It really makes me think destroying the dollar is part of the great master plan. The one place he names has done well agianst the dollar and we gave them the means to do it.

This goes back to my original thought of how we are giving money to other Countries when don't have any ourselves. So we borrow from China when we should be paying off the deficit. Giving money to 14 Central Banks at this time is simply absurd.

Well we will see how Bernike does on keeping his job, he seems to be a bit confused about who he supposed to be protecting.

Get the American Economy going properly and the rest of the world will benefit. Destroy it and you will harm the world, pretty simple stuff really.

Good one to watch

[ray23]

China may have it's own problems which may actually cause some problems in this region. It appears the region is really counting on China to export to. This is a crazy world we are in now how this effects dollar or if does I have no idea. In today's world things don't change in weeks they change by the hour.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=ad_eeBbjzDa4

[Naam]

Ron Paul = yawwwwwnnnnn....

[flying]

Ron Paul = yawwwwwnnnnn....

Yeah yeah

You know a lot of these clocks could go away if the current administration would take heed of some of the things he said.

http://costofwar.com/

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[flying]

Ron Pauls interview I had seen,

Grayson I had not, that's insanity. It really makes me think destroying the dollar is part of the great master plan. The one place he names has done well agianst the dollar and we gave them the means to do it.

This goes back to my original thought of how we are giving money to other Countries when don't have any ourselves. So we borrow from China when we should be paying off the deficit. Giving money to 14 Central Banks at this time is simply absurd.

Well we will see how Bernike does on keeping his job, he seems to be a bit confused about who he supposed to be protecting.

Get the American Economy going properly and the rest of the world will benefit. Destroy it and you will harm the world, pretty simple stuff really.

Good one to watch

What is extremely insane is the FED seems to think they are God & may do what they want. This is of course we the peoples own fault. We have allowed it based on an old written in 1913 agreement. They also now this & abuse it to no end. But you know before this crisis most were happy to chug along as it did not seem to hurt.

Now Congress as well as the public is on a steep learning curve & do not like what they/we are finding.

There is way too much secrecy & it is as laughable as Grayson showed. Many things that Bernanke said makes no sense at all same with what the vice chair had to say about secrecy. You know when Grayson said ..."Do you think anyone would refuse the money?" He was spot on. The only reason there could be for secrecy of the borrower is it would enrage the people to find out what their tax dollars are funding.

[flying]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/156901-the...ow-what-part-ii

Allowing banks to control how they mark-to-market their assets, will likely backfire and when they ultimately end up failing, imply greater closure costs for the FDIC. From the graph above one can infer that the average yearly DIF costs/bank assets have increased at an alarming rate to almost reach 31% in 2008 and 2009.

To review, banks have been granted a waiver by the government to essentially overstate the value of their assets, a convenience that wags refer to as "mark-to-fantasy" accounting. When the FDIC swoops in on a Friday afternoon and takes over a failed bank, they have to start with the bank's own estimates of asset values when assessing the possible losses. To put it bluntly, these are pie-in-the-sky estimates that will only ever disappoint

[Naam]

Ron Paul = yawwwwwnnnnn....

Yeah yeah

You know a lot of these clocks could go away if the current administration would take heed of some of the things he said.

http://costofwar.com/

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

sorry Flying, my posting was not clear. basically i like Ron Paul. what i meant is that he is too often cited.

[flying]

sorry Flying, my posting was not clear. basically i like Ron Paul. what i meant is that he is too often cited.

Agreed but sadly we really lack folks in Congress or the Senate who actually have a grasp of the situation. He stands out as one of the few who do.

Not that I can point my finger as most of us are on a steep learning curve just since the mess started.

[badge]

http://www.safehaven.com/article-14237.htm

Should be a good read -

Ron Paul's new book, End the Fed (out next month) illuminates the real reasons behind America's recent stunning economic collapse. The Federal Reserve would just as soon you not read it, and instead believe the standard refrains from the standard economists (including those at the Fed): "No one saw it coming! How could anyone have predicted it?"

[flying]

http://www.safehaven.com/article-14237.htm

Should be a good read -

Ron Paul's new book, End the Fed (out next month) illuminates the real reasons behind America's recent stunning economic collapse. The Federal Reserve would just as soon you not read it, and instead believe the standard refrains from the standard economists (including those at the Fed): "No one saw it coming! How could anyone have predicted it?"

It will be a book I buy. I dont buy many books since there is so much to read online.I have been looking forward to it for months. Thanks for the reminder

[AlexLah]

and instead believe the standard refrains from the standard economists (including those at the Fed): "No one saw it coming! How could anyone have predicted it?"

Posted link to this story before in the other thread but maybe some that not read that one here a repost.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/busine...,635051,00.html

This basically shows that those International bankers and also Bennie boy knew what was happening years before but did not do a thing. The thing they worried about was if there was enough supply of their favorite wine, go figure.

Edited August 20, 2009 by AlexLah

[Chunkton]

Robert Prechter of Elliott Wave says dollar is at a turning point to strengthen. His view on the dollar starts at about 7:08 through the interview.

Yes I was thinking it would collapse under the rancid actions of the Fed and Government, but Prechter has an excellent track record of being right. I believe it had something to do with the expected next market collapse and flight to the dollar pumping it up.

Course if you believe in green shoots and are long in the market then none of this matters anyway as you will be cleaned out soon and investing won't be an option any more.

[lannarebirth]

Robert Prechter of Elliott Wave says dollar is at a turning point to strengthen. His view on the dollar starts at about 7:08 through the interview.

Yes I was thinking it would collapse under the rancid actions of the Fed and Government, but Prechter has an excellent track record of being right. I believe it had something to do with the expected next market collapse and flight to the dollar pumping it up.

Course if you believe in green shoots and are long in the market then none of this matters anyway as you will be cleaned out soon and investing won't be an option any more.

No he doesn't. He missed several hundred percent of increases in the last bull market and he had his telephone subscribers long on the day of the '87 crash. He did call the botom in '82 and said there would be a bull market and he did get the bulk of his subscribers out for the '87 crash. His active subscribers were long again on that day however. Now he's the flavor of the month again.

Personally, I like him, but would never follow his calls. I've seen far too many of his "ex subscribers" left gutted.

[ray23]

Imagine if Obama actually gets the National Health plan in.

[ray23]

The Big O might get stopped dead in his tracks I really hope so.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=new...id=a4IFxK90qtqg

[sokal]

The US government doesn't suffer from a weak dollar. It benefits because domestic made products get cheaper and imports become more expensive. The massive debt becomes less because money owed was borrowed when the dollar was stronger. Don't look for the US government to make any moves to strengthen the dollar.

The anti American crowd doesn't like it but the fact is that the US and Canada are as near self sufficient as any country in the world. The rest of the world better hope that North America doesn't decide to go into isolationist mode. Oil you say? Estimates are that there is more oil available in North America than has been used since the beginning. Extracting that oil would create an entire new industry and create many jobs. There is a huge surplus of clean natural gas and why it is not being utilized is a very good question. Natural gas is cheap and plentiful. The cost right now is about $3.50 per thousand cubic feet. It was over $10 during the fake oil shortage.

Expats suffer from a weak dollar but why would the government care? The US banks certainly don't like us.

Nope. The lower the USD goes the more oil and gas will cost Americans. And its a zero sum game so the more gas costs in the US, the less it costs everywhere else.

I am not anti American by any stretch.

[sokal]

Housing starts up in the States:

Productive activity up in the States

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8195595.stm\

Industrial output up in the U.S.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8201935.stm

Waiting on a report on China buying Us Treasuries from Bloomberg.

It is amazing what you can find if you bother to look.

Does any of this mean the dollar will rise and stay up darned if I know. But, it went today. Beyond that I would not express an opinnion. I will leave that to the guys on the forum that know what they are doing. I'm not one of them.

You are just scratching the surface. Bloomberg ? BBCnews ? Try ZeroHedge or Europac.net or 24hgold.com

[sokal]

Robert Prechter of Elliott Wave says dollar is at a turning point to strengthen. His view on the dollar starts at about 7:08 through the interview.

Yes I was thinking it would collapse under the rancid actions of the Fed and Government, but Prechter has an excellent track record of being right. I believe it had something to do with the expected next market collapse and flight to the dollar pumping it up.

Course if you believe in green shoots and are long in the market then none of this matters anyway as you will be cleaned out soon and investing won't be an option any more.

Think about this for a minute. The average retiree on Social Security receives about $1,100 per month, or $13,000 per year. This is a dollar denominated promise. If the crash from top to bottom is 90% or more as Prechter predicts, this would give each and every Social Security recipient the equivalent purchasing power of $130,000 per year when purchasing real estate, the stock market or even commodities. Basically everything.

And this will be true not only for Social Security, but for anyone on the receiving end of a dollar denominated promise, including all pensioners, anyone with a tenured job, like teachers and government workers, and including everyone in Congress. Virtually everyone with an income or cash savings will see their purchasing power rise ten-fold!

The problem with this view is that the real economy right now cannot even afford to deliver real economic goods at TODAY'S dollar purchasing power, let alone another 800% rise in purchasing power, with Ben printing new ones the whole way there.

Currency is the key

There is a quote I like that comes from Le Metropole Cafe. It goes, "we will have deflation in everything we own, and inflation in everything we use". This is partly true. It is true during the run up to the rubber band snapping. It is true until we hit the waterfall. At that point I have my own version of the quote. "We will have hyperDEflation in everything measured against real money, GOLD, and we will have hyperINflation in everything measured against paper dollars."

Edited August 20, 2009 by sokal

[zorro1]

If you been to China - most of the population is dirt poor and live in a shi*e hole. There are so many in poverty this alone will be China's undoing. TOO MANY PEOPLE = DISASTER. China is tied to the US as every other economy - US Sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold.

China has one of the world's oldest civilizations and has the oldest continuous civilization.

It has archaeological evidence dating back over 5,000 years

I doubt they are worried. They have survived more colds than any other.

It is not a problem for some who are dirt poor to continue as such. It is another for

a pampered population to suddenly have to learn what life is like without.

Brilliant summary in just 5 sentences