Thai Citizenship For Child Born In Thailand

[ronny1307]

Does anybody have experience?

My pregnant wife and I (none of us has a Thai passport) are planning to deliver the baby in Thailand. Can the baby have a Thai passport?

[lopburi3]

Not unless the baby has a Thai father or mother.

[ronny1307]

Not unless the baby has a Thai father or mother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone told me if you are born in Thailand, you can get Thai citizenship.

[sriracha john]

Not unless the baby has a Thai father or mother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone told me if you are born in Thailand, you can get Thai citizenship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Better tell the multitudes of hill people up North without citizenship documents about that....

[Bobcat]

Lopburi is correct. A child born in Thailand of non-Thai parents will not acquire Thai citizenship by birth unless one of its parents has obtained Thai citizenship or Thai permanent residence prior to the date of birth of the child.

[astral]

Surely this site contradicts the view stated above?

I take legal alien to mean, someone with a valid visa?

The problem with the hill tribe people is they have no documents, Thai or otherwise, and therefore are illegal!!

[Ajarn]

The problem with the hill tribe people is they have no documents, Thai or otherwise, and therefore are illegal!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Astral, your statement is not accurate. The fact is, many 'hilltribe' folk do have documents, including citizenship papers... But, many still don't who should...

[lingling]

Surely this site contradicts the view stated above?

I take legal alien to mean, someone with a valid visa?

The problem with the hill tribe people is they have no documents, Thai or otherwise, and therefore are illegal!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My interpretation is: Children of permanent residents can get Thai citizenship. Children of non-immigrant visa holders can't.

[COBBER]

If you are doing visa runs the baby has to go out and come back the first time the mother has to do a visa run.

[Ajarn]

Surely this site contradicts the view stated above?

I take legal alien to mean, someone with a valid visa?

The problem with the hill tribe people is they have no documents, Thai or otherwise, and therefore are illegal!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My interpretation is: Children of permanent residents can get Thai citizenship. Children of non-immigrant visa holders can't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From that website, the only way to interpret anything with accuracy is have agreement on what 'legal alien' means.. As it stands, that says to me that ANYONE non-Thai here legally who fits into #11 or #12 (both legal aliens), can have their kid be a Thai citizen, including those with status lower than Permanent Residence Permit holder. That is the case with many of the Burmese and hilltribe folks here now already, as I understand the situation, and I don't see any stated exclusion for farangs, so I would surmise that the answer to the OP's question is yes.

But, I'm wondering why would they want a Thai passport? Just a souvenir? Unless they come from a poorer country than Thailand, why would they want their baby to be Thai, rather than the shared nationality of its parents?

[lopburi3]

Not only is legal alien not spelled out this quite should be taken into account:

has opened a possibility

Anything is possible.

[ianpants69]

My wife and I had our first child here and she has British nationality from me (my wife is Indonesian). The birth certificate issued at the Ampur office states in Thai at the top 'child of non-residents / illegal aliens' (or something to that effect) 'not eligable for Thai nationality'. However, according to the Thai nationality act, a child born in Thailand to two aliens is eligable for nationality. I don't have the link but all this is shown on one of the Thai embassy in America websites, oh look it is up there.

So at the moment our daughter has a British passport, she has never left Thailand and therefore can stay indefinitely, having left Thailand for the first time she then needs a visa just like everyone else (visa on entry or pre-arranged) BUT according to the information I've got through this site there is a way around the visa requirement - The immigration authorities waive the over-stay fines for over-stayers under the age of seven years old so in theory she only ever needs to get a visa on entry. Then can stay as long as needs be, it is worth remembering though that that would mean she was in the country illegally.

Any help or no?

Edited March 23, 2005 by ianpants69

[ianpants69]

Surely this site contradicts the view stated above?

I take legal alien to mean, someone with a valid visa?

The problem with the hill tribe people is they have no documents, Thai or otherwise, and therefore are illegal!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My interpretation is: Children of permanent residents can get Thai citizenship. Children of non-immigrant visa holders can't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From that website, the only way to interpret anything with accuracy is have agreement on what 'legal alien' means.. As it stands, that says to me that ANYONE non-Thai here legally who fits into #11 or #12 (both legal aliens), can have their kid be a Thai citizen, including those with status lower than Permanent Residence Permit holder. That is the case with many of the Burmese and hilltribe folks here now already, as I understand the situation, and I don't see any stated exclusion for farangs, so I would surmise that the answer to the OP's question is yes.

But, I'm wondering why would they want a Thai passport? Just a souvenir? Unless they come from a poorer country than Thailand, why would they want their baby to be Thai, rather than the shared nationality of its parents?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because the child cannot always hold both of the parents nationalities and having a Thai passport (for the children of long term expatriates) will mean they don't have to be crossing the border yearly or more, also presumably it would open the door to purchasing land etc...

[samran]

I'll have to dig it up, but the Thai nationality Act 2535 says (in Thai) that any child born to a Thai mother or father (anywhere) or to a person who resides permanently in Thailand is eligible for Thai citizenship.

The long and the short of it is that unless you have a Thai parent or you were born in Thailand to someone with a PR book, then you are not going to get Thai nationality.

So to save you blokes time about interpreting the Thai embassy website in Washington, instead go to the Council of States website, www.krisdika.go.th/, where many of Thailand’s laws are kept on line. It is only available in Thai. Go to the letter Sor-Sua, (for san-chart Thai) and the 3 revisions to the law will be there for all to see.

Apologies for no Thai keyboard on this one.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'll have to dig it up, but the Thai nationality Act 2535 says (in Thai) that any child born to a Thai mother or father (anywhere) or to a person who resides permanently in Thailand is eligible for Thai citizenship.

The long and the short of it is that unless you have a Thai parent or you were born in Thailand to someone with a PR book, then you are not going to get Thai nationality.

So to save you blokes time about interpreting the Thai embassy website in Washington, instead go to the Council of States website, www.krisdika.go.th/, where many of Thailand’s laws are kept on line. It is only available in Thai. Go to the letter Sor-Sua, (for san-chart Thai) and the 3 revisions to the law will be there for all  to see.

Apologies for no Thai keyboard on this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It won't happen Samran.

[samran]

what wont happen doc?

[COBBER]

My wife and I had our first child here and she has British nationality from me (my wife is Indonesian). The birth certificate issued at the Ampur office states in Thai at the top 'child of non-residents / illegal aliens' (or something to that effect) 'not eligable for Thai nationality'. However, according to the Thai nationality act, a child born in Thailand to two aliens is eligable for nationality. I don't have the link but all this is shown on one of the Thai embassy in America websites, oh look it is up there.

So at the moment our daughter has a British passport, she has never left Thailand and therefore can stay indefinitely, having left Thailand for the first time she then needs a visa just like everyone else (visa on entry or pre-arranged) BUT according to the information I've got through this site there is a way around the visa requirement - The immigration authorities waive the over-stay fines for over-stayers under the age of seven years old so in theory she only ever needs to get a visa on entry. Then can stay as long as needs be, it is worth remembering though that that would mean she was in the country illegally.

Any help or no?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Intresting that you bring this up. I had a neighbour who was also british with an indonesian wife and their son was born here. They were here on 3 entry tourist visas and after enquiring at immigration were told that the baby had to go on a visa run the fist time that the mother was due to go. They only did visa runs with the baby 2 or 3 times and then returned to the UK. I think they broke all speed records in getting the babys british citizenship and first passport in time for the first visa run.

[Rumpole]

Visa runs for newborns! Insanity. Only in Thailand.

[sriracha john]

Visa runs for newborns!  Insanity.  Only in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will most likely be denied re-entry unless he/she can fill out and sign the TM card by himself/herself??

[p_brownstone]

Visa runs for newborns!  Insanity.  Only in Thailand.

What's so insane about it - and why blame Thailand?

If the Parents were not, themselves, contravening the sprit of the Thai Immigration legislation there would be no need for any of them to do "Visa Runs".

Patrick

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'll have to dig it up, but the Thai nationality Act 2535 says (in Thai) that any child born to a Thai mother or father (anywhere) or to a person who resides permanently in Thailand is eligible for Thai citizenship.

The long and the short of it is that unless you have a Thai parent or you were born in Thailand to someone with a PR book, then you are not going to get Thai nationality.

So to save you blokes time about interpreting the Thai embassy website in Washington, instead go to the Council of States website, www.krisdika.go.th/, where many of Thailand’s laws are kept on line. It is only available in Thai. Go to the letter Sor-Sua, (for san-chart Thai) and the 3 revisions to the law will be there for all  to see.

Apologies for no Thai keyboard on this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A kid born in Muang Thai of foreign parents getting citizenship. The T i T rules will rule the day. AKA the " Mai dai " rule

It won't happen Samran.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Visa runs for newborns!  Insanity.  Only in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's so insane about it - and why blame Thailand?

If the Parents were not, themselves, contravening the sprit of the Thai Immigration legislation there would be no need for any of them to do "Visa Runs".

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A very good point Patrick.

[Rumpole]

Visa runs for newborns!  Insanity.  Only in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's so insane about it - and why blame Thailand?

If the Parents were not, themselves, contravening the sprit of the Thai Immigration legislation there would be no need for any of them to do "Visa Runs".

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what of all the Thai employers who "contravene the spirit of the Thai Immigration legislation" by promising work permits which are never delivered, deliberately drag their feet over processing the same, or simply offer little to no support in navigating the Byzantine maze which constitutes said Thai immigration legislation?

I "blame Thailand", because having lived and worked in ten countries on three continents, I have never encountered another place which makes those with needed skills jump through so many fiery hoops in order to work legally. In most countries in the world, once the initial red-tape has been complied with, the guest- worker is then free to concentrate on more productive matters. In Thailand the visa/teaching licence/work permit/registration debacle is almost a continuous work-in-progress. Thailand is the only place I know where if you are fortunate enough to get a work permit at all, it is often at the end of your contract rather than the beginning!

The very existence of this website and its title, should be sufficient indication of how convoluted the whole tedious process is.

Edited March 25, 2005 by Rumpole

[srisatch]

To go back to the beginning...and repeat!

Why on earth would anyone non-Thai choose to have their baby born in Thailand?

And where? In which hospital? Plenty of horror threads about maternity experiences..particularly in 'Private Hospitals'...

And see today's report on the BBC about MRSA etc. in 'Developing Country' Hospitals. Suppose LOS still counts as one of those?

If you have a choice go to the Hospital in Rachawithi next to the Children's Hospital...but if you are not Thai I don't know if you can!

[ronny1307]

To go back to the beginning...and repeat!

Why on earth would anyone non-Thai choose to have their baby born in Thailand?

And where? In which hospital? Plenty of horror threads about maternity experiences..particularly in 'Private Hospitals'...

And see today's report on the BBC about MRSA etc. in 'Developing Country' Hospitals. Suppose LOS still counts as one of those?

If you have a choice go to the Hospital in Rachawithi next to the Children's Hospital...but if you are not Thai I don't know if you can!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know of some US-friends that had their child delivered in LOS. And they were VERY satisfied. They even said they would prefer Thailand rather than giving birth in the USA.

Since I have opened this thread, I would like to explain more:

It can be very helpful to have more than one passport. You never know what will happen, and maybe it will be one day of great help for our child to be able to live in Thailand. Of course he would as well get our citizenship.

Also, he will never have a problem with Visas, he can own land... why not have one more passport in addition?! Does it hurt?

Thanks so much for your help, guys!! As I understand now, and after reading the page http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/con_info/con_inf.htm , it seems that our child can get a Thai passport, since neither me nor my wife are illegal in Thailand, but on a normal tourist visa.

We will try to get his passport as soon as possible after his birth.

[samran]

Ronny Ronny Ronny,

Your child will not be eligible for Thai citizenship if you are both on simple tourist visas.

Unless you or your wife have a Thai passport, or one of you has a residence permit (NOT a tourist visa), then your child will not get Thai nationality.

Edited March 25, 2005 by samran

[samran]

Actually, both of you need to have residence permits, not just one of you.

FYI, a residents permit means that you have been issued a blue passport like book saying that you have residency, and you have been issued a special Thai ID only available to permanent residents.

[ronny1307]

Actually, both of you need to have residence permits, not just one of you.

FYI, a residents permit means that you have been issued a blue passport like book saying that you have residency, and you have been issued a special Thai ID only available to permanent residents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How should I understand then this page:

http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/con_info/con_inf.htm

There, 1. Born within the Territory of the Kingdom of Thailand ,

case 11 and 12:

married or not, both parents legal aliens. What does it mean?

Furthermore: If we come from a country that gives citizenship only to those that are born within their own borders, my child can not get that citizenship, if born in Thailand. What would happen with this child? Will it remain stateless???

[samran]

I wrote at the end of the first page of this thread that the table you are refering (http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/con_info/con_inf.htm) does not totally reflect what the actual LEGISLATION says.

The legislation (in Thai) tells us that unless a child has a parent who is a Thai citizen, or has a parent who has been granted residence in Thailand by the Minister, then the child WILL NOT get Thai nationality.

If both parents are on a tourist visa or non-immigrant visa (with or without work permit), then for the purposes of the legislation their child born in Thailand will not be eligible for Thai nationality.

Remember, it is the Thai legislation which counts, not what it says in English in a website.

Furthermore, to answer your second question, you need to tell us what yours and your wifes nationality is. Having said that, it is highly likely that your child will get yours and your wifes nationaity by descent.

They will not remain stateless.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I suspect that he doesn't want to believe you Samran. That's a pity, because you are right.