" The Crash Of The E U R O "

[Spee]

Sweden is trying negative interest rates hahahahahahahaha who said Swedes don't have a sense of humor ? :

Who told you ? The Swedish key rate is at 0,25% since early July and will probably remain there for another year or so to boost the economy.

The problem with that idea is the same that the US faces. Reducing the cost of money does nothing other than reduce the value of money, if the Swedes are doing what the US is doing by having a near zero prime rate but keeping the printing presses running on all three shifts. Without control over the printing machines, inflation is inevitable. Nothing is stimulated when money has no value.

If the Swedes were really interested in stimulating the economy, they should slash their massive tax rates and social programs and try to make their country one in which people can afford a decent middle class lifestyle. Look at the US. There is no middle class, as it was defined during the 50's and 60's. There is a upper middle class and a lower middle class, but very little in between. The result is the politicians play class envy warfare by painting the upper middle class as the very rich and the lower middle class as the poor and down-trodden.

Although complete different cultures and scenario, Thailand has a similar problem. There is no middle class. There is the upper middle class and the upper class, and there is the lower middle class and the poor.

[Naam]

The name is actually John Manard Keynes. He was also a homosexual. You are talking about Milton Friedman, who is kind of stupid but not as stupid as John Menard Keynes.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ and claim the real name is John Maynard Keynes.

[Naam]

Reading this post it makes me glad that my money is in New Zealand, Our dollar is getting stronger and our Government says the wost is behind us and it's all up hill from now on.

And even better I'm getting 8.5% on my investments gov. guaranteed

I would not say that the worst is over for anyone but New Zealand and Australia do have the best monetary policies in the world right now.

.......the best monetary policies in the world?......monetary policies?

What's that Sokal ?

LaoPo

do i have to mention Rembrandt again LaoPo?

[LaoPo]

Reading this post it makes me glad that my money is in New Zealand, Our dollar is getting stronger and our Government says the wost is behind us and it's all up hill from now on.

And even better I'm getting 8.5% on my investments gov. guaranteed

I would not say that the worst is over for anyone but New Zealand and Australia do have the best monetary policies in the world right now.

.......the best monetary policies in the world?......monetary policies?

What's that Sokal ?

LaoPo

do i have to mention Rembrandt again LaoPo?

hmmmm..let's talk Vincent...?

LaoPo

[Spee]

The name is actually John Manard Keynes. He was also a homosexual. You are talking about Milton Friedman, who is kind of stupid but not as stupid as John Menard Keynes.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ and claim the real name is John Maynard Keynes.

Milton Friedman was brilliant and practical, not "kind of stupid."

His "Free to Choose" series is timeless for anyone who believes, as I do, in personal liberty and personal economic freedom:

http://www.miltonfriedman.blogspot.com/

Keynes was also brilliant, though his concepts of government being able to stimulate national economies has been shown to be fundamentally flawed. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Unfortunately, the US is gradually finding this out and the true effects of the last 18 months of government fiscal irresponsibility have yet to be felt.

[Naam]

hmmmm..let's talk Vincent...?

LaoPo

as appropriate as van Rijn

[Bisto]

ecb rate stays at 1%

A survey has shown that business activity in the euro zone economy expanded in August after 15 months of falls.

The final purchasing managers' index (PMI) for the zone, compiled by data and research group Markit, rose to 50.4 points in August from 47 in July. Any figure above 50 means growth. It marks the first time that the index has entered positive territory since May 2008.

'The PMI index suggests that the euro zone may well come out of recession in the third quarter,' said economist Rob Dobson of Markit.

[sokal]

The name is actually John Manard Keynes. He was also a homosexual. You are talking about Milton Friedman, who is kind of stupid but not as stupid as John Menard Keynes.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ and claim the real name is John Maynard Keynes.

Milton Friedman was brilliant and practical, not "kind of stupid."

His "Free to Choose" series is timeless for anyone who believes, as I do, in personal liberty and personal economic freedom:

http://www.miltonfriedman.blogspot.com/

Keynes was also brilliant, though his concepts of government being able to stimulate national economies has been shown to be fundamentally flawed. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Unfortunately, the US is gradually finding this out and the true effects of the last 18 months of government fiscal irresponsibility have yet to be felt.

Keynes would flunk a basic economics 101 course. brilliant ? I beg to differ

[cocopops]

Keynes was also brilliant, though his concepts of government being able to stimulate national economies has been shown to be fundamentally flawed.

I don't think anybody has ever shown that concept to be "fundamentally flawed". Outside of a few bloggers who spend most of their time saying how stupid everybody in any position of power is and how obvious the answers to everything are.

Edited September 3, 2009 by cocopops

[sokal]

Keynes was also brilliant, though his concepts of government being able to stimulate national economies has been shown to be fundamentally flawed.

I don't think anybody has ever shown that concept to be "fundamentally flawed". Outside of a few bloggers who spend most of their time saying how stupid everybody in any position of power is and how obvious the answers to everything are.

The Japanese have proved that Keynes is complete BS. That is what happens when you try and fight a contraction.

[Spee]

Keynes was also brilliant, though his concepts of government being able to stimulate national economies has been shown to be fundamentally flawed.

I don't think anybody has ever shown that concept to be "fundamentally flawed". Outside of a few bloggers who spend most of their time saying how stupid everybody in any position of power is and how obvious the answers to everything are.

Oh really? Aside from the fact that governments extract resources from the private economy, and governments in and of themselves, do not add to the national productivity, whatever do you mean?

If you want to see the flaws in Keynesian economics, all one needs to do is examine the economic history of India from the time that it ceased to be a British colony to the present. Keynesian economics were dominant at that time because that is what all the British leaders espoused and that is what all the Indian leaders studied in the British universities. This strategy stifled if not outright prevented entrepreneurship and doomed the population to limited economic growth until recent present when the free market capitalism of the tech booms made it impossible for the government to supress.

As for Sokal's comments, nothing about the Japanese could be further from the truth. The Japanese government and major industries are completely inbred. The Japanese government has constantly stifled free trade and promoted protectionist policies to the detriment of their own population.

Take rice for example, one of the world's most inexpensive food commodities by anyone's estimation. The Japanese government has put incredible trade barriers in place to stifle importation of inexpensive mass produced rice, in an effort to save the domestic rice production as part of Japan's cultural identity.

And what is the result? The Japanese pay more for rice than anyone else in the world.

[sokal]

Keynes was also brilliant, though his concepts of government being able to stimulate national economies has been shown to be fundamentally flawed.

I don't think anybody has ever shown that concept to be "fundamentally flawed". Outside of a few bloggers who spend most of their time saying how stupid everybody in any position of power is and how obvious the answers to everything are.

Oh really? Aside from the fact that governments extract resources from the private economy, and governments in and of themselves, do not add to the national productivity, whatever do you mean?

If you want to see the flaws in Keynesian economics, all one needs to do is examine the economic history of India from the time that it ceased to be a British colony to the present. Keynesian economics were dominant at that time because that is what all the British leaders espoused and that is what all the Indian leaders studied in the British universities. This strategy stifled if not outright prevented entrepreneurship and doomed the population to limited economic growth until recent present when the free market capitalism of the tech booms made it impossible for the government to supress.

As for Sokal's comments, nothing about the Japanese could be further from the truth. The Japanese government and major industries are completely inbred. The Japanese government has constantly stifled free trade and promoted protectionist policies to the detriment of their own population.

Take rice for example, one of the world's most inexpensive food commodities by anyone's estimation. The Japanese government has put incredible trade barriers in place to stifle importation of inexpensive mass produced rice, in an effort to save the domestic rice production as part of Japan's cultural identity.

And what is the result? The Japanese pay more for rice than anyone else in the world.

The Japs have been "stimulating" their economy since the 89 crash and there stock market keeps making muti decade lows. The Japs are different then the US because the Japanese debt is owned domestically but it is still Kenesian stimulus BS.

[Spee]

And what is the result? The Japanese pay more for rice than anyone else in the world.

The Japs have been "stimulating" their economy since the 89 crash and there stock market keeps making muti decade lows. The Japs are different then the US because the Japanese debt is owned domestically but it is still Kenesian stimulus BS.

I guess we're trying different ways to say the same thing. I didn't get that from your earlier post. I agree that trying to use the government to stimulate the economy is fundamentally flawed, for many very basic reasons.

[khunjake]

Crash in the Euro?

Crash in the Buck is far more likely at this juncture..

[loverboy44]

Didn't know yet that the japanese rice price will force a Euro crash. What a BS.

1 Euro = 1,42 US$ as of yesterday.

What is crashing now?

1 GBP = 1,14 EUR. Used to be 1,50 EUR by the way.

[tonbridgebrit]

How about a crash in the Euro, dollar and pound sterling ? Also, is it me seeing things or is it really a case that 90% of all those who speculate (all this being long and short on stuff) on currencies, stock indexes, shares, commodities, etc, actually loose money in the medium/long term ?

[Naam]

How about a crash in the Euro, dollar and pound sterling ?

versus WHAT currencies?

[cyb]

Didn't know yet that the japanese rice price will force a Euro crash. What a BS.

1 Euro = 1,42 US$ as of yesterday.

What is crashing now?

1 GBP = 1,14 EUR. Used to be 1,50 EUR by the way.

Just a short time ago the GBP=1.08 EURO

So what you are saying is the gbp is losing value when in actual fact it is gaining again.

[sokal]

How about a crash in the Euro, dollar and pound sterling ? Also, is it me seeing things or is it really a case that 90% of all those who speculate (all this being long and short on stuff) on currencies, stock indexes, shares, commodities, etc, actually loose money in the medium/long term ?

that is correct but if you have been following the investment world for the last 10 years you would see that everyone has been forced to speculate because the federal reserve has kept interest rates too low.

[loverboy44]

Didn't know yet that the japanese rice price will force a Euro crash. What a BS.

1 Euro = 1,42 US$ as of yesterday.

What is crashing now?

1 GBP = 1,14 EUR. Used to be 1,50 EUR by the way.

Just a short time ago the GBP=1.08 EURO

So what you are saying is the gbp is losing value when in actual fact it is gaining again.

I wanted to say that the GBP was for a long time at 1,50 EUR. And that was stable more or less for decades.

After the crisis the GBP lost a lot of value and not only against the Euro but the Baht too. And this is scince nearly one year.

[manarak]

you cannot trust the statistics that get published by USA/EC/UK

I don't think there will be a crash of the baht anytime soon, except if the Thai economy gets hit stronger than expected by the automobile crisis, the slowing of exports of manufactured goods, the fall of the rice price and the drop in Tourism. Publication of the figures of the third quarter and 2010 outlooks will be the moment of truth.

and the EUR as a target for destabilization is a difficult one.

just think about how much reserves in USD are held by the ECB ??

which currencies would the EUR fall against?

Edited September 7, 2009 by manarak

[loverboy44]

That's exacly what i am trying to say. The EURO is at the moment the most stable curency in the world. Like the US $ was. The British people will regret the arrogance to not join the EURO as they have to import everything for a very high price.

[Orac]

Didn't know yet that the japanese rice price will force a Euro crash. What a BS.

1 Euro = 1,42 US$ as of yesterday.

What is crashing now?

1 GBP = 1,14 EUR. Used to be 1,50 EUR by the way.

Just a short time ago the GBP=1.08 EURO

So what you are saying is the gbp is losing value when in actual fact it is gaining again.

I wanted to say that the GBP was for a long time at 1,50 EUR. And that was stable more or less for decades.

After the crisis the GBP lost a lot of value and not only against the Euro but the Baht too. And this is scince nearly one year.

The GBP/EUR exchange rate cannot possibly have been stable for decades since the EUR as a currency only came in to existence in 2002.

[LaoPo]

Didn't know yet that the japanese rice price will force a Euro crash. What a BS.

1 Euro = 1,42 US$ as of yesterday.

What is crashing now?

1 GBP = 1,14 EUR. Used to be 1,50 EUR by the way.

Just a short time ago the GBP=1.08 EURO

So what you are saying is the gbp is losing value when in actual fact it is gaining again.

I wanted to say that the GBP was for a long time at 1,50 EUR. And that was stable more or less for decades.

After the crisis the GBP lost a lot of value and not only against the Euro but the Baht too. And this is scince nearly one year.

The GBP/EUR exchange rate cannot possibly have been stable for decades since the EUR as a currency only came in to existence in 2002.

I agree; loverboy44 is a bit off track I suppose.

"The euro was launched on 1 January 1999, when it became the currency of more than 300 million people in Europe. For the first three years it was an invisible currency, only used for accounting purposes, e.g. in electronic payments. Euro cash was not introduced until 1 January 2002, when it replaced, at fixed conversion rates, the banknotes and coins of the national currencies like the Belgian franc and the Deutsche Mark."

Interactive map of the Euro area from 1999 to 2009:

http://www.ecb.int/euro/intro/html/map.en.html

LaoPo

[Naam]

That's exacly what i am trying to say. The EURO is at the moment the most stable curency in the world. Like the US $ was. The British people will regret the arrogance to not join the EURO as they have to import everything for a very high price.

i don't remember any USD stability. perhaps i'm not old enough? but since nearly four decades i see the Dollar fluctuating as much as my younger dog wags her tail when begging for a treat

[loverboy44]

1 EUR = 2 Dmark

About 30 years ago, my god am i old, the Pound was 3 Dmark = 1,50 EUR

So far about out of track and just for the super mathematicians between us.

[lannarebirth]

Well, the Euro is breaking out to the upside today, so.......

[Naam]

1 EUR = 2 Dmark

About 30 years ago, my god am i old, the Pound was 3 Dmark = 1,50 EUR

So far about out of track and just for the super mathematicians between us.

you are quite right Loverboy as one can indeed derive GBP/EUR values by a calculation based on DEM.

about 30 years ago (and that applies too to the '70s) the Pound was rather stable and bought 4 Marks and 29 years ago the Pound bought more than 5 Marks.

and if we go back in history (to the 40-50s) one Pound bought 2.80 Dollars or more than 11 Marks. that lasted till the mid 1960s when the mighty Pound was for the first time harshly circumcised (~6.50 DEM) and when the fraudulent Bretton Woods System collapsed in 1971 the Pound imploded too and traded @ 4.00 plus minus 0.50 Marks till in 1992 George Soros hit hard on the Pound. since then we are facing a rollercoaster of most major currencies vs. each other.

[Orac]

1 EUR = 2 Dmark

About 30 years ago, my god am i old, the Pound was 3 Dmark = 1,50 EUR

So far about out of track and just for the super mathematicians between us.

you are quite right Loverboy as one can indeed derive GBP/EUR values by a calculation based on DEM.

about 30 years ago (and that applies too to the '70s) the Pound was rather stable and bought 4 Marks and 29 years ago the Pound bought more than 5 Marks.

and if we go back in history (to the 40-50s) one Pound bought 2.80 Dollars or more than 11 Marks. that lasted till the mid 1960s when the mighty Pound was for the first time harshly circumcised (~6.50 DEM) and when the fraudulent Bretton Woods System collapsed in 1971 the Pound imploded too and traded @ 4.00 plus minus 0.50 Marks till in 1992 George Soros hit hard on the Pound. since then we are facing a rollercoaster of most major currencies vs. each other.

Surely what we are questioning here is the stability of the underlying economies as opposed to stabiliy of one currency compared to another . I agree with your last comment that it has been a rollercoaster since 1992 so to claim that any one currency has been stable is taking a very one-sided view - to say that the USD has flucuated wildly against the EUR works when looked at from an EUR perspective but if looked at from the USD perspective isn't the counter argument that the EUR is flucuating against the dollar equally true?

[cocopops]

Keynes was also brilliant, though his concepts of government being able to stimulate national economies has been shown to be fundamentally flawed.

I don't think anybody has ever shown that concept to be "fundamentally flawed". Outside of a few bloggers who spend most of their time saying how stupid everybody in any position of power is and how obvious the answers to everything are.

The Japanese have proved that Keynes is complete BS. That is what happens when you try and fight a contraction.

Well, certainly if a theory is not a silver bullet that fixes absolutely everything it must be "complete BS". Makes total sense. Clearly you've thought this out.