Mike Tyson Coming Back Again - Hopes

[Abandon]

Just to lighten the mood a little with all the serious topics lately. This is from the BBC

Former world heavyweight champion Mike Tyson could make his latest comeback on 25 June in Washington.

His manager Shelly Finkel told the Washington Post newspaper that no date or venue had been decided.

However the newspaper reported that Washington's main arena is free on the last Saturday in June - five days before Tyson's 39th birthday.

Confirming his return earlier in March, Tyson said: "It'll be in Washington, probably 20 June."

Tyson has not fought since Britain's Danny Williams stopped him after four rounds last July.

A newly formed organisation for traditional Thai kick boxing, or muaythai, is considering a training request from Tyson, according to reports.

Police general Kovid Bhakdiphum, chairman of the World Boxing Council Muaythai, told the Associated Press: "Tyson's representatives contacted us and asked what I can do to help him.

"If he's not punching people outside the ring or biting the ears of opponents and shows he's well disciplined, we will take him."

[Ajarn]

Now it's "Tyson contacted us". The Thai tv news two days ago reported the opposite, saying they "want to contact Tyson, and are sending a special delegation to propose that Tyson come to train in Thailand". No indication in their report that this was initiated by anyone from Tyson's side... If it were true, it would have been the major angle of the story. It wasn't.

[Thaiboxer]

From the looks of it, Tyson would probably not be doing any fighting here...the idea is to have him visit some Muay Thai gyms and the major boxing stadiums to help generate some publicity for the sport. He may also be promoting the Everlast brand of clothing, boxing equipment, hats, etc. How Everlast will compete with the local brands (Windy, Twins, FBT) is beyond me. They mostly aim for clothing these days rather than boxing equipment. As indicated, Tyson would be welcome to come here provided he didn't pick fights with anyone or bite any ears or legs.

[Abandon]

He could get some new tattoos too while he is at it.

I'd love to see a muay Thai boxer kick his legs from under him.

Though I do feel sorry for his foolishness, and for blowing 300M$

[Ajarn]

He could get some new tattoos too while he is at it.

I'd love to see a muay Thai boxer kick his legs from under him.

Though I do feel sorry for his foolishness, and for blowing 300M$

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think any Thai boxer would last 5 seconds with Tyson, even on his worst day. He's badder than any Muay Thai boxer I've ever seen here.. Though I would love to see him get beaten in the ring, for sure.

I think his Maori tattoos are kind of neat, though not my cup of tea

$300 million blown? Sounds like Thaksin

[chonabot]

I don't think any Thai boxer would last 5 seconds with Tyson, even on his worst day. He's badder than any Muay Thai boxer I've ever seen here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then you clearly have little knowledge of my old sport , Teach.

Edited March 11, 2005 by chonabot

[anna234cn]

COOOOOOOOL. I love Tyson and his tattoos. So strong. hehe

[penzman]

I am convinced that Jean Yves "The Iceman" Theriault could still kick Tyson around in the ring anytime. Back in 1980, he won the title of the World Middleweight Kickboxing Champion, a position that he held for 15 years.

Tyson is an animal and a hard punching machine but lacks brains and finesse.

[simba]

There has been talk for a while that he was going to get involved in the K1 events,

havent seen that yet,

and i would love to see him get his a**e kicked!!!!!!!!

[fivevenoms]

While I have no doubt that any reasonably seasoned boxer would probably beat me senseless, boxing isn't really very well rounded as a "fighting art" as contrasted to some other styles.

With all due respect to the aforementioned people who could knock me out with very little effort, a Muay Thai practitioner of equivalent size and experience, would probably annihilate most boxers. And yes, I too, would like to see Tyson get handed his teeth by a mixed martial artist....or any martial artist really.

[chuchok]

While I have no doubt that any reasonably seasoned boxer would probably beat me senseless, boxing isn't really very well rounded as a "fighting art" as contrasted to some other styles.

With all due respect to the aforementioned people who could knock me out with very little effort, a Muay Thai practitioner of equivalent size and experience, would probably annihilate most boxers.  And yes, I too, would like to see Tyson get handed his teeth by a mixed martial artist....or any martial artist really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While boxing is not your typical martial art, good practitioners are very disiplined and well trained athletes (Well...normally )

Chon, If Tyson could master the ability to defend against a Muay Thai fighter(IE:kicks etc), then I would like to see what the outcome would be??

The good kick boxing fighters that I have seen can kick and defend etc, but the ones that stand out are the big punchers.....or am I wrong?

A type of example of this would be the Kiwi Mark Hunt in K1.Now this is a guy that can't kick, was quite inexperienced (And lazy) yet he managed to knock many of the "big" names over...cause he hit like a gorilla

[Pie Boy]

He could get some new tattoos too while he is at it.

I'd love to see a muay Thai boxer kick his legs from under him.

Though I do feel sorry for his foolishness, and for blowing 300M$

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist, enough said.

[TAdam]

I doubt Tyson has the discipline or the capacity to adapt to Muay Thai. He's a slugger in the Joe Frazier mold, but without Frazier's additional skills. His short, stocky legs aren't suited to MT kicking techniques and unless he was able to completely change over his style and stance from what he's been doing to 20+ years he'd never see most kicks coming. He might get lucky with one solid punch, but I think that's the only chance he'd ever have. I saw some Thai Army SF types practicing in Lumphini Park last fall that would have taken him out in a flash.

And quite frankly, he's clearly not very bright: I doubt if his IQ even threatens 80, and I don't think he could ever figure out Muay Thai techniques and strategies.

Side-note: One of the funniest newspaper cartoons I ever saw showed him entering the prison's shower room with half a dozen mountain-sized inmates staring down at him. The caption read, "The day Mike Tyson learns that 'no' means 'no'. "

[Thaiboxer]

Tyson was a force to be reckoned with back in the 80's. He fought flat footed (something you NEVER do in boxing) yet he got away with it...his aggressive demeanor and extremely powerful punches (uppercut in particular) sent most of his opponents to the canvas pretty quick. I'm sure the man can still throw a decent punch or two, but as one poster stated, he would have to change just about everything in regards to his fighting style (minus the punching of course) to do well in Muay Thai against a formidable opponent. Only one problem...you would need a VERY big Thai boxer to get even close to his size/weight and as long as the guy could stay away from Tyson's punches, he could just chop away at his legs and maybe throw some knee strikes to soften him up. Former world champ Evander Holyfield commented once that Tyson doesn't take too well to an opponent who moves around a lot. Ali used to employ this tactic of dancing around to wear the other guy down then move in for the kill later on.

Once Tyson turned into an ear-biting rapist and a major gambler, his reputation and career went down the tubes about as fast as his money did.

[Richard Hall]

The good kick boxing fighters that I have seen can kick and defend etc, but the ones that stand out are the big punchers.....or am I wrong?

Yep, in his prime time Tyson was basically unbeatable because he combinded extreme punching power with agression and was even as a heavyweight quick as lightning. His reputation alone already gave him a psychological advantage before even entering the ring. He eventually got busted by technically better boxers when he lost his speed and accuracy in landing a punch.

The real good Muay Thai fighters got the complete package and make equally use of all their weapons by using the technique that is most appropriate in a situation. Muay Thai stands for an arsenal of weapons allowing effective fighting in long, mittle or short distance. Many Thai fighters seem, however, do not take full advantage of using their fists basically represented by classical western style techniques (straights, hooks etc.) but rely to 90% on kicking maybe because this is what the judges and the audience want to see.

A real good fighter usually does not need to go the full distance and winning by points and partially biased decisions but provides undeniable clearance by a knock out. independant from the style being employed. Eventually, it is always the heart that wins the fight and only a minor percentage is the sytem being employed. Even, nowadays, Tyson would surely just punch the &lt;deleted&gt; out of an incomplete Muay Thai fighter particularly if this person is not en par with this punching power and bodyweight.

Muay Thai is a great fighting system if used at its full capabilities that means emplyoing ALL the weapons (kicking, punching, elbows, knees, throws and in real life even the forehead) equally.

Once young Bruce Lee assuming that Asian martial arts where supperior to Western style fighting got his backside kicked by a Western boxer making him realize that any fighting system has its own strenghts and therefore he picked those and formed Jeet Kune Do (incorporating Kung &lt;deleted&gt;, Western style boxing, Muay Thai et. etc. etc.). A huge aresenal of weapons, paired with incredible striking power and speed which eventually made him such a superior fighter despite his low bodyweight.

Unfortunately, too many myths such as Thais would always kick the back of a Western person or a Muay Thai fighter would always be superior to a boxer.

There are no frills in fighting and eventually it doesn't matter whether a fight is won by an artistic kick or a sharp straight punch right to the point. Wanna be a good fighter - don't be biased but just go for the full package. If your defence is already bone breaking there might not even be a need for an attack but the fight is already over before it even started.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Richard Hall

[Ajarn]

I don't think any Thai boxer would last 5 seconds with Tyson, even on his worst day. He's badder than any Muay Thai boxer I've ever seen here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then you clearly have little knowledge of my old sport , Teach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe so... I'm still willing to give odds that Tyson would womp any Thai boxer here..

[Thaiboxer]

It's unfortunate that in modern Muay Thai a lot of the old techniques are no longer used. Granted, some are a bit difficult to execute but for every one of those there are probably about five or six that could end a fight sooner than you think. Muay Thai relies mostly on the kicks, knees and elbows but as time goes on, more and more of these guys are learning to make good use of the fists (the fastest weapons of the body) just as Western stylist have for a long time. I've seen quite a few Muay Thai matches end with a simple hook or straight punch that lands right on the button. In the old days, say 20 years ago and further back, Muay Thai fighters used a lot of caution and strategy in the ring whereas many of today's boxers rely more on strength and stamina and not so much on technique. Muay Thai today is conducted more along the business lines and with gambling thrown in, the fighting styles have changed leading to predictable fights and a decline in spectators. Football may now be the biggest spectator sport in Thailand and I am almost positive it's the most popular. Very few boxing coaches even know the old Muay Boran system today, let alone possess the ability to teach it. Young Thai boys are taken into boxing camps, taught the basics, then trained hard physically and thrown into the ring to earn some money...often after only five or six months of training.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Thaiboxer

[chonabot]

I don't think any Thai boxer would last 5 seconds with Tyson, even on his worst day. He's badder than any Muay Thai boxer I've ever seen here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then you clearly have little knowledge of my old sport , Teach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe so... I'm still willing to give odds that Tyson would womp any Thai boxer here..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Ajarn , unfortunately we will never know!

The main problem would be finding a similar sized Thai Boxer. When I had a dalliance with the sport (10 years back) my fighting weight was 80 kg , I had difficulty finding a similar sized oaf to spar with. Usually some Thai lad about 10 kilos lighter would kick the crap out of me, which was nice of them.

I met Ramon Dekkers briefly , he fought at around 70 kg ( World MUay Thai champion from Holland ) and he has a reasonable career in Pro Boxing. We both agreed back then that Tyson would not have the mobility to defend against the " Tae-Tad" - Low leg kick , and would be defeated by a quick large Muay Thai fighter. You really have to train at both styles to see the shortcomings in Western Boxing. Muay Thai has exactly the same weapons plus hundreds , with harder training. I think back then , Rob Kamans , heavyweight kickboxing/Muay Thai champ would have beaten Tyson in his prime , with two leg kicks.

But , if he connected with a haymaker , it would be lights out. These days though , I think he's shot.

Edited March 12, 2005 by chonabot

[Ajarn]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Ajarn , unfortunately we will never know!

The main problem would be finding a similar sized Thai Boxer. When I had a dalliance with the sport (10 years back) my fighting weight was 80 kg , I had difficulty finding a similar sized oaf to spar with. Usually some Thai lad about 10 kilos lighter would kick the crap out of me, which was nice of them.

I met Ramon Dekkers briefly , he fought at around 70 kg ( World MUay Thai champion from Holland ) and he has a reasonable career in Pro Boxing. We both agreed back then that Tyson would not have the mobility to defend against the " Tae-Tad" - Low leg kick , and would be defeated by a quick large Muay Thai fighter. You really have to train at both styles to see the shortcomings in Western Boxing. Muay Thai has exactly the same weapons plus hundreds , with harder training. I think back then , Rob Kamans , heavyweight kickboxing/Muay Thai champ would have beaten Tyson in his prime , with two leg kicks.

But , if he connected with a haymaker , it would be lights out. These days though , I think he's shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Clearly, you're more up on the game than I am

I just think of how quickly he has devasted most opponets in the past, even those everyone might agree are better boxers... And, we've also seen Tyson get beat by an unlikely opponet...

Like you said, his days of glory have likely passed.... Still, I'd sure like to see a Thai guy womp him.. Recently, I've seen a couple of MONSTER European Muay Thai fighters, and I would imagine that if they lasted the first minute with Tyson, they'd likely take Tyson out.. Which I'd love to see...

Did I tell you that I'm a lover, not a fighter?

[Richard Hall]

...Muay Thai fighters used a lot of caution and strategy in the ring...

Chon,

can still be seen in Thailand at least once a year. The fighting feast between Thailand and the neighouring Myanmar. Very simple rules and the fight is over when one opponent gives up or "gets the lights" switched out. Nevertheless, the fights are usually not very long because no gloves but the hand are just taped.

Much more realistic than the usual competitions and the fighting styles are totally different.

Modern fighting has nothing much do anymore with traditional martial arts - the arts of war. Train for overcoming your sometimes armed opponents quickly which means usually kill him before he gets you.

This very original art was still practised in more modern times by Matsutatsu Oyama founder of the Kjokushinkai who took on bulls with his bare hands. For me, he represents the real art of fighting. Learn mote about him at http://www.masutatsuoyama.com/masoyama.htm

What were the odds if this guy had really taken on Mike Tyson or any other modern boxer. No giant paddies to hide behind but just the bare hands and body.

Just a short extract from the said website:

"In 1952, he travelled the United States for a year, demonstrating his karate live and on national televison. During subsequent years, he took on all challengers, resulting in fights with 270 different people. The vast majority of these were defeated with one punch! A fight never lasted more than three minutes, and most rarely lasted more than a few seconds. His fighting principle was simple — if he got through to you, that was it."

It is indeed a vast difference between traditional marial arts (including Muay Thai Boran) and what is practised and taught nowadays.

[chuchok]

Chon,Thaiboxer,Richard or any other bugger that knows his stuff,

Why then in K1 did Mark Hunt do so well.He was 130kgs, fat, only had about 2-3 years training, yet he ended up winning one K1 comp and sat almost everybody else on there arse at one time or another.most fighters were much better/fitter etc than him...but he was a very hard puncher??

In the early days,if I remember correctly Tyson used to have great lateral (Quick)movement and would not get hit much......

[chonabot]

Chon,Thaiboxer,Richard or any other bugger that knows his stuff,

Why then in K1 did Mark Hunt do so well.He was 130kgs, fat, only had about 2-3 years training, yet he ended up winning one K1 comp and sat almost everybody else on there arse at one time or another.most fighters were much better/fitter etc than him...but he was a very hard puncher??

In the early days,if I remember correctly Tyson used to have great lateral (Quick)movement and would not get hit much......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think his sheer size and punch power was the key. Plus these days other styles are combined to defeat most boxers in the crossover sports.

IMo the best all round style is Gracie Ju-jitsu , boring to watch , but near impossibkle to defend against. Greco Roman wrestling is another tough style.

These days I have all but lost interest in combat sports and prefer golf...

[chuchok]

Chon,Thaiboxer,Richard or any other bugger that knows his stuff,

Why then in K1 did Mark Hunt do so well.He was 130kgs, fat, only had about 2-3 years training, yet he ended up winning one K1 comp and sat almost everybody else on there arse at one time or another.most fighters were much better/fitter etc than him...but he was a very hard puncher??

In the early days,if I remember correctly Tyson used to have great lateral (Quick)movement and would not get hit much......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think his sheer size and punch power was the key. Plus these days other styles are combined to defeat most boxers in the crossover sports.

IMo the best all round style is Gracie Ju-jitsu , boring to watch , but near impossibkle to defend against. Greco Roman wrestling is another tough style.

These days I have all but lost interest in combat sports and prefer golf...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai boxing to Golf..Chon, what happened...too many reds?

[Thaiboxer]

chuchok...Western Boxing does have its advantages. Very often, strong punchers have suprised as well as KO'd Thai Boxers in the ring. However, given the limited weapons/techniques in Western Boxing, Muay Thai and Muay Thai Boran would be of far greater use in a real fight. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is good for the groundfighting aspect but it not efficient in striking. Modern Muay Thai combined with BJJ would give you a good all around system that could be used to defeat most opponents. BJJ, however, would be useless against more than one attacker and against somebody armed with a contact weapon. It's always better to stay on your feet but if you do end up on the ground which is often the case in real fights, it's to your advantage to know some ground skills. Greco-Roman Wrestling or even simple Catch Wrestling is a good skill to have.

chonabot didn't TOTALLY give up Muay Thai...he still does Krabi Krabong with his golf clubs!

[chonabot]

chonabot didn't TOTALLY give up Muay Thai...he still does Krabi Krabong with his golf clubs!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe , only against yanks when they beat me

[chuchok]

chuchok...Western Boxing does have its advantages. Very often, strong punchers have suprised as well as KO'd Thai Boxers in the ring. However, given the limited weapons/techniques in Western Boxing, Muay Thai and Muay Thai Boran would be of far greater use in a real fight. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is good for the groundfighting aspect but it not efficient in striking. Modern Muay Thai combined with BJJ would give you a good all around system that could be used to defeat most opponents. BJJ, however, would be useless against more than one attacker and against somebody armed with a contact weapon. It's always better to stay on your feet but if you do end up on the ground which is often the case in real fights, it's to your advantage to know some ground skills. Greco-Roman Wrestling or even simple Catch Wrestling is a good skill to have.

chonabot didn't TOTALLY give up Muay Thai...he still does Krabi Krabong with his golf clubs!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well my old man always taught me that when I used to get in a bit of strife on rugby field.."if it even hints of getting ugly...hit'em first and hard before they know what's going on... "..couple of times I forgot about that advice.

[chonabot]

[

Well my old man always taught me that when I used to get in a bit of strife on rugby field.."if it even hints of getting ugly...hit'em first and hard before they know what's going on... "..couple of times I forgot about that advice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He forgot to add, " Make sure you're holding a bottle of Red when you hit 'em ! "

[Sir Burr]

I don't know anything about martial arts, but I do remember late at night watching Ultimate Fighting Championship for the first time on UBC.

Thought that it would be great, watching different disciplines being matched against each other. Sort of like Enter the Dragon.

Was pretty disappointed after watching it a couple of times. No matter what type of style was used, the best wrestler always won with a stategy that they called "ground and pound". This bloke called Tito Ortiz (greco-roman) was nearly unbeatable.

Still remember Tyson's fight against the then unbeaten Michael Spinks. By the time some of the audience were getting back to their seats from buying a hot-dog, the fight was over with a KO.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Sir Burr

[Abandon]

I'm a bit of a boxing fan - but nothing like some of you guys.

I'm suprised no one mentioned Ali's fight against that Jap martial artist. Can't recal his name. The guy spent all his time crabbing on the floor and Ali never got to hit him. The Jap kicked endlessly at Ali's legs but Ali didn't go down. He did go into hospital afterwards for extreme damage to his legs though.

Also there is British No. 1 heavyweight Matt Skelton - he was a former kickboxing and K1 champ who turned to boxing at 35 yrs old. He has done incredibly well, through extreme work rate and violence more than boxing skills which he himself admits are pretty poor. He still wins though, against some fair opponents. No doubt he will waste Danny Williams if they ever get it on.

Also Vlad and Vitali Klitscho were both kickboxing champs.

Anyway, as I read the article, Tyson was after training tips and an added layer to his strategy, and not really seeking competition in Thailland. Another poster here said it was mainly a sponsorship promotion, judging by Thai TV news.

[Thaiboxer]

chuchok...getting in the first shot is often the decisive factor in street fighting. It doesn't mean starting the confrontation, but simply ending it quickly before it gets any uglier. If that nasty guy has you up against a wall and wants to pound you, a good first hit to a vulnerable area should lay him low and give you time to escape. A Krav Maga instructor I once knew said the best fighting tactic of all is to not get into a fight in the first place. This is even more important to us foreigners who are greatly outnumbered by the locals not to mention hampered by the laws.

Sir Burr..the "ground n' pound" employed by many UFC fighters is simple but often effective in those contests. As one UFC fighter (Eugene Jackson) once put it, you're in a controlled environment where the ref will stop the action if you're taking too much. I would have to question the typical "ground n' pound" tactics in a street situation. Many nasty moves (some found in Muay Thai) are banned in the UFC but on the street anything goes...if a big dude rushes you, dropping the tip of your elbow down using your body weight could end the fight VERY quickly. A knee to the face does a good job as well. That move catches some UFC guys by suprise.