Division Of Assets On Divorce

[Godders]

Does anyone have first-hand experience of divorce from a Thai partner and the division of assets by a Thai divorce court? I ask because my advice from a leading Bangkok law firm is at odds with what I've been reading in Forum posts dating back three years.

The generally held view seems to be that since the family house and land is in the Thai's name (except for condos/lease agreements) then the falang partner has no claim on it - despite the fact that you supplied the readies.

However, the law firm I advised me very recently that under Article 1447 of the Civil Code of Thailand, land a property - irrespective of whose money was used for the acquisition or in whose name they are registered - are regarded as community property and treated by divorce courts as part of the joint assets, along with everything else acquired after the marriage took place.

Thai divorce law, they said, is based on the principle that the joint assets of a marriage are shared equally between the marriage partners when they untie the knot. However, because the concept of a guilty party was still recognised in the Kingdom, divorce courts had wide discretionary powers when playing Solomon.

I know that what the law says and the way it is applied in Thailand are frequently two different things - so what really happens if you go for a Divorce Thai Style?

I should add that the lawyers only recommended a Thai divorce court hearing as a last resort, as the process could be lengthy, costly - and upredictible. A far better way was to get one's Thai partner to agree a settlement to present to the the appropriate registrar along with the application for a divorce certificate. With the right documentation, the process can be completed in minutes, I'm told. Anybody been there?

It would be interesting to hear what happens in reality to "joint" assets other than property/land. Apparently everything other than personal items such as clothes and jewellery and gifts are up for grabs. Now we know why you have to have 400,000 baht in the bank to get a marriage visa!

Thanks in advance for any helpful contributions. I am in the process of accessing the many legal and other sources of info quoted in past Forum posts.

Godders

[Edge]

Recently I have heard a story about a German guy who came to live in Thailand together with his lovely Thai wife. They bought a nice piece of land and build themselves a very nice house and created a beautiful garden. They bought all the furniture new, etc., etc. He bought her a new car (registered to her name).

Everything was ready and they held a large party with many people invited.

At the moment they wanted to live happily-ever-after, his Thai wife told him: Sorry, I don’t like you anymore. I want to divorce and live together with a Thai man I love to much!

He was kicked out of the house by her new Thai boyfriend (he had some help from his Thai friends).

After recovering the shock (it took him a couple of days) he tried to negotiate how to split the assets and settle for a divorce.

She wanted all (the land, the house, all inside the house and the new car). He was allowed to take the money from there bank account. There was approx. THB 700.000 left, he thought. But no, his lovely wife took some pocket-money for herself. There was only THB 30.000 left.

He asked for some legal advice, but unfortunately the same story here:”the process could be lengthy, costly and unpredictable”. So he became desperate what to ……

The next day, very early in the morning, they heard a rumbling sound approaching the village where the house was built. The german guy had rented himself a HUGE bulldozer and flattened the building and everything in it within 10 minutes. His lovely wife and her new Thai boyfriend were luckily not heart. The lovebirds where on a holiday somewhere in the land of smiles.

From the rest of the money he bought himself a ticket and went back to Germany, ruined.

This is not ‘just a story’ ! I have seen the remains of the building and the rubbish left.

I feel very sorry for the German guy. Sometime the land-of-smiles can change into the-land-of-weeping.

So, for all the goodhearted falangs: let this be A LESSON LEARNED !

[arthsch]

if you buy property on your wifes name, its lost! if you have a child together, you are a little bit safer! but not so much! so dont believe the lovely girl, rent a house, buy the bike on your name and never do one thing: to share a bank account with the sweet person! you must be able to leave the village immetiately!

[weasel]

TIT - Don't ever, ever, ever expect to have any claim whatsoever on assets that are NOT 100% registered in your own name.

[Sumitr Man]

Godders:

Are you sure the law firm advised you to rely on Section 1447 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand ("CCC") (as a matter of form, the CCC are Sections not Articles)?

I ask because Section 1447 of the CCC deals with Compensation claims brought under Sections 1440 - 1446 of the CCC, respectively (which, in short, deal with breach of a betrothal agreement and a man having sex with a woman, to whom is betrothed, again her will). None of which deal with your circumstances.

OTH, Sections 1532 and 1533 of the CCC look at what happens to communal property (Sin Somros - as opposed to Sin Suan Tua, which is property belong to either spouse in their own right as prescribed under Section 1471 of the CCC) subsequent a divorce.

Very briefly, bar any circumstances (such a children and maintence or a pre-nup) which would make it not the case, Sin Somros is divided equally between the husband and wife on divorce [50/50].

Having said this, Clause 1 of The Notification of the Ministry of Interior re Application for Acquisition of Land by Thai National Who Has or Used to Hvae Alien Spouse and Juvenile Child of Alien Who Has Thai Nationailty, as published in Ministerial Information Bulletin No. 9238 (October 4, 2001) is very clear on the issue of land registration between a foriegner and Thai spouse where it states:

"..., if after an investigation the applicant and the alien spouse have jointly confirmed in writing that all of the money to be used by the Thai national to buy the land is his/her own private assets or private property, AND NOT SIN SOMROS.. then the registration can proceed.

Thus, with other assets you may acquire during marriage as Sin Somros, you may be entitled to a half-share: depending on the provisions/agreement of your divorce. OTH, land/property is clearly not Sin Somros (in your case as a foreigner), unless you are talking about a Condo.

Regardless of the above, I suggest you seek a second opinion on your legal position.

SM

Edited March 15, 2005 by Sumitr Man

[Dragonman]

With regard to the German guy, and anyone contemplating buying anything in their thai wife's name,make sure it is bought on a mortgage or loan agreement with minimal deposit.Remarkably they stay "in love" with you much longer.

[Khun Larry]

Does anyone have first-hand experience of divorce from a Thai partner and the division of assets by a Thai divorce court? I ask because my advice from a leading Bangkok law firm is at odds with what I've been reading in Forum posts dating back three years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All assets will be lost as well as any monies paid to the "Thai Lawyer"

[astral]

With regard to the German guy, and anyone contemplating buying anything in their thai wife's name,make sure it is bought on a mortgage or loan agreement with minimal deposit.Remarkably they stay "in love" with you much longer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Put the house in a company name and cover the purchase with a loan to the company!!

[weasel]

...make sure it is bought on a mortgage or loan agreement with minimal deposit.Remarkably they stay "in love" with you much longer.

It'll make 'hiding' that Thai BF/Husband all the more difficult

[Heng]

The next day, very early in the morning, they heard a rumbling sound approaching the village where the house was built. The german guy had rented himself a HUGE bulldozer and flattened the building and everything in it within 10 minutes. His lovely wife and her new Thai boyfriend were luckily not heart. The lovebirds where on a holiday somewhere in the land of smiles.

From the rest of the money he bought himself a ticket and went back to Germany, ruined.

Well, at least he got the last laugh. I hope it's a true story.

Perhaps of some comfort to legions who get ripped off here by gals or guys who only finished the equivalent of the 6th grade.... it's typically only a matter of time before these cons are living a life of hardship again (of course there are plenty of exceptions where if they harpoon a big enough whale... there are in fact "set for life"), as the land or whatever assets are soon in hock at exorbitant interest rates because of poor management and life decisions. I see this cycle all the time at our Pattaya branch. Avg. time period from relationship start life to bulldozer rental contemplation is 6 months to 10 years. I think the only thing stopping some people here is that it's a bit difficult to get bulldozers up the big hill in Jomtien without some help.

[Godders]

...make sure it is bought on a mortgage or loan agreement with minimal deposit.Remarkably they stay "in love" with you much longer.

It'll make 'hiding' that Thai BF/Husband all the more difficult

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Dragonman - and Weasal. The mortgage/loan idea is a new one on me. What exactly are we talking about here? Who provides the mortgage or loan and to whom and how exactly does the arrangement work to safeguard the falang's interests?

I'd appreciate more details. Once bitten. . . - and to whom, me or the wife. How exactly does the whole thing work.

Thanks to everybody who has posted to date on this subject. Hopefully others will learn from my predicament.

[Godders]

...make sure it is bought on a mortgage or loan agreement with minimal deposit.Remarkably they stay "in love" with you much longer.

It'll make 'hiding' that Thai BF/Husband all the more difficult

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Dragonman (and Weasel). The mortgage/loan idea is a new one on me. What exactly are we talking about here? Who provides it, who takes it out, and how exactly does the arrangement work to safeguard falang interests? I'd appreciate more details in case there's a next time. What about a prenuptial agreement, of the kind common in the west to protect husbands from avaricious wives? Is this a possible option in the Land of Smiles (now I know why they are smiling!).

[Heng]

It just means that instead of buying a home for cash, you back the Thai partner in taking out a loan from a bank to buy a home (or whatever). Thus, the land deed sits at the bank for however long you want to take to pay off the loan. This can be as much as 10-15 years if you want. Sure, you get taken to the cleaners by the bank or private lender interest wise.... but it's a better option than losing your shirt/pants/sandals/house/car, etc. one year into a relationship.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Heng

[Dragonman]

My mortgage is with the local bank in Sattahip.I go guarantor for my wife.I only put up 200,000 baht deposit and pay rest over 25years. They only required details of my pension and 3 months statements from my bank in UK re. my current account.Rather do this than the Company set up as I want her to have something if we split up, but not the shirt off my back. Have also made sure she understands that she will get 50% of my current pension when I die only if we are still together.

Seems scheming, but reality in Thailand. So far been married 4 years without sign of Thai boyfriend!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

My mortgage is with the local bank in Sattahip.I go guarantor for my wife.I only put up 200,000 baht deposit and pay rest over 25years. They only required details of my pension and 3 months statements from my bank in UK re. my current account.Rather do this than the Company set up as I want her to have something if we split up, but not the shirt off my back. Have also made sure she understands that she will get 50% of my current pension when I die only if we are still together.

  Seems scheming, but reality in Thailand. So far been married 4 years without sign of Thai boyfriend!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep your fingers crossed Dragonman. Best of luck.

[Godders]

My mortgage is with the local bank in Sattahip.I go guarantor for my wife.I only put up 200,000 baht deposit and pay rest over 25years. They only required details of my pension and 3 months statements from my bank in UK re. my current account.Rather do this than the Company set up as I want her to have something if we split up, but not the shirt off my back. Have also made sure she understands that she will get 50% of my current pension when I die only if we are still together.

  Seems scheming, but reality in Thailand. So far been married 4 years without sign of Thai boyfriend!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting. Problem is I'm in my sixties, which would presumably mean, in my case, hefty repayments (or a bigger deposit, or both) over a much shorter period. I assume I would also have to take out an insurance policy,to cover the loan?Anyway, certainly something worth looking into with my bank here. Thanks.