Sunday Redshirt Rally Postponed

[hammered]

According to these numbers from Wiki Thailand's richest to poorest ratios are better than in the US for top/bottom 10% and 20%, though overall inequality index is higher:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...income_equality

The US may not be a good example for first world distribution of wealth comparison as it has always been labelled a country with first world GDP but third world distribution. Embarrasing for the US maybe (as I am not Amercian I wont conclude that) but not useful for comaprative cases and it shouldnt be used to justify Thailand's quite horrible distribution imho.

[LawnGnome]

Good for you Madi.

Wow, I found a political soulmate

You have said it better than I could ever have

Oh there you are Ferwert. I though we had lost you when you were banned from TV. Good to see you've created another account and are still here to keep us informed and honest...

[TAWP]

Good for you Madi.

Wow, I found a political soulmate

You have said it better than I could ever have

Oh there you are Ferwert. I though we had lost you when you were banned from TV. Good to see you've created another account and are still here to keep us informed and honest...

Most fun is when people create sock-puppets accounts, post similar replies and then cheer each-other as 'good post'. Makes for good entertainment. Just a note.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Good for you Madi.

Wow, I found a political soulmate

You have said it better than I could ever have

Oh there you are Ferwert. I though we had lost you when you were banned from TV. Good to see you've created another account and are still here to keep us informed and honest...

Most fun is when people create sock-puppets accounts, post similar replies and then cheer each-other as 'good post'. Makes for good entertainment. Just a note.

Strangely enough that situation isn't lost on many of the mods.

[ballpoint]

Most fun is when people create sock-puppets accounts, post similar replies and then cheer each-other as 'good post'. Makes for good entertainment. Just a note.

Indeed. Based on the explicit red shirt mutual masturbation, in this thread particularly, the forum should be given an R18 rating. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad as it would also serve to get rid of the immature "haaaa haaaa", "ooooh", and caps lock on type posters. As you say, it is entertaining though as a comedy act. Especially one a few pages back where the style of both posters tugging away at each other is so similar it's hard to believe they're not the same person. A bit of solitairy masturbation in with the mutual maybe?

To get back on topic, it's obvious that Thaksin's misgivings about the cost of the protest, the probable embarrasingly small number who would have showed up, and the concern that those who actually did would be the usual red thug element and wouldn't be able to be reined in this time - how the red leadership is reaping what it sowed over Songkran, not to mention the splits that are appearing, have caused the leaders to greatfully grasp at the excuse thay are giving for postponing the rally. This is an ex redshirt rally and it has ceased to be. Here's hoping for the sake of the country the whole movement goes the same way.

[Jingthing]

Does anyone else get the feeling this thread is infested with professional propaganda posters employed by the reds? There seems to be a new talking point, farangs shut up, you don't know, you can't know ...

[Scott]

If you believe that someone has created a second account that contravenes TV rules, then use the report button. Flaming and flame-baiting as well as name calling isn't the best method to use.

It would appear that the since the redshirt rally was postponed for political reasons--at least the ISA and the response by them would fall into the political realm--I am wondering what implication a later rally might have.

It seems that they called the gov'ts hand. It wouldn't be good to keep an ISA in place for a long period of time, and it wouldn't look good to keep re-imposing it. As it draws closer to the anniversary of the coup, is it likely to whip up greater sentiment on either side?

In this instance, whose side is time and delaying tactics on?

[hammered]

Does anyone else get the feeling this thread is infested with professional propaganda posters employed by the reds? There seems to be a new talking point, farangs shut up, you don't know, you can't know ...

There are certainly companies that offer such services and these tactics have been used in poltical campaigns around the world and even by the Israeli government as part of a PR offensive. Im not sure if bots can also be used

Whether that is happening here I guess we will never truly know. On ething is for sure the Thai government is so awful at PR they wouldnt have thought of it. More likley the savvvy Thaksin team would employ it. Mind you why anyone would want to waste resopurces on a bunch of foreigners who can change anything is questionable although it could be search related. If for example they constantly repeated set phrases such as "pro-democracy red shirts" that would have a use not so much aimed at TV opinions but more at ensuring certain things came out when say news organizations searched them.

[kitiya1980]

Sunday rally postponed

BANGKOK: -- Pro-Thaksin protesters announced Saturday they decided to postpone their mass rally planned for Sunday as they are not allowed to gather under the internal security laws.

They said they planned to rally on September 5.

They would again postpone their rally if the government enforced the Internal Security Act again for their Sept 5 rally.

-- The Nation 2009-08-29

Well red shirt leaders said on tv that they'll start rally on sept 5th and may change the day again to sept 19th see if the security law lifted or not.

Anyhow it already caused bad image to the country. to be honest about that dam_n clip it was just to wind people up and make the situation worse (part of the reason RED changed the rally day to avoid violence i think) that was dirty plan by whoever but the govt took it as big issue oh <deleted> it ya should keep moving on workin for the country instead of arguring over these silly things doh want to distract us again huh? there are many problems need to be solved almost a year now wot u guys been doing?

Also about panda thing just to distract us instead of creating such thing like that why dont they keep working for the country i dont understand am not red am not yellow but am just like majority thai people who try to survive in the situation like this its the worse govt i've ever seen. if u guys do research this party u will know they're aweful.

He's just another puppet whos youngest and said he's graduated from abroad dam_n during his administration people are starving what he has done lemme ask snow dome for the pandas? oh weather in CM like 40c. in the dome -5c. such a waste! trying to make it FEVER even elephant TH symbol and crocodile painted like panda...?!? pardon me this is very disgusting is this the best they can do? in year 2009? then argh i feel like throwing up but then again i wouldnt cause i spent my small budget for lunch ate somtam, sticky rice and chicken (issan food) so its not worth to do that bleh!

Tiger oops Thaigal from LOS

Kit

[Insight]

Does anyone else get the feeling this thread is infested with professional propaganda posters employed by the reds? There seems to be a new talking point, farangs shut up, you don't know, you can't know ...

There's an interview with Nick Nostitz on yesterday's Stickman site which is pretty interesting reading. He states that this same type of statement is commonly heard when dealing with the PAD.

In my own experience it's been seen on this forum from Thai posters from all sides sadly, and is often followed by some backpedaling a few posts later once refuted.

[Jingthing]

Does anyone else get the feeling this thread is infested with professional propaganda posters employed by the reds? There seems to be a new talking point, farangs shut up, you don't know, you can't know ...

There's an interview with Nick Nostitz on yesterday's Stickman site which is pretty interesting reading. He states that this same type of statement is commonly heard when dealing with the PAD.

In my own experience it's been seen on this forum from Thai posters from all sides sadly, and is often followed by some backpedaling a few posts later once refuted.

Its only speculation and a feeling I get, that's all the pedaling you'll get from moi. Certainly political movements employ propaganda strategies. The reds insistence that their movement is related to pro democracy is one of those and one that they hope will sway international opinion towards the Thaksin side. The evidence for this comes straight out of Mr. T's mouth. We can assume there is some concern on the red's part about foreigner public opinion as they want to paint their movement as some kind of idealistic people's movement in the context of a Mandella or a Corey Aquino, when obviously it is nothing of the kind.

The reds can clearly see international opinion is going against them, mostly starting with Black Songkran. Now they want to paint all farangs in Thailand as sex tourists against the Thai people's interests. That is despicable. They rightly assume that foreigner opinion in Thailand of those of us on the scene will have some ripple effect on international perception of the Thaksin dictator movement, and in their self interest, they want to discredit us. Thus, my suspicions about the real origin of these current consistent talking points from our redheads here.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Jingthing

[animatic]

@animatic

ooohh you seem to know everything... if i read your posts.. what you say to someone posted 7 times... ? Do you know that it is QUALITY whats counts, not quantity??

I post in a few other sites.. no need to post much, but write the truth! Who told you the reds want a REVOLUTION?? I wonder..!! (Answer please with a name.. not just YOUR hypothesis..) They clear want what AV(PM) told he will do.. new votes! Unfortunately AV forget already what he promised.. or he bends it other way round... the circumstances don't allow him to do so at the moment.. haha

And all bad things happen and everyone get in jail or get's in conflict with the law is always red shirt and got order from K'Thaksin.. I just wonder what BKPost and Nation will write when the Thaksin Storys are over.. You forget to write that the YELLOW REVOLUTION just stopped when they reached their goal ... How long did they occupy the Government house and Airport....

SORRY i forgot you told here is a treat about the reds..

Does anyone have any idea, what this Newbie is trying to say, I find his/her English very hard to follow ?

My guess is he is angry with me for being clear and concise, and wrong in his view.

Of course he also seems to be mixing up several threads,

and misconstrues logical hypothesis, for actual stated fact...

And much I can't tease a meaning from...

At least he's reading them. Probably through gritted teeth, Oh well.

My guess is that you do not want to argue his points and so are just attacking him with some childish remarks.

Did it ever occur to you that most people in Thailand are not born rich and therefore should not be expected to be even nearly as good with English as was he in his post.

By the way--I understood his point.

Anyone who could not understand it is certainly nearly illiterate with their English reading abilities.

These points I am about to make are irrefutable.

Thailand is NOT a democratic nation.

Why? Because the ruler is not elected.

End of story.

You agree?

If you do not you are in need of some education.

If I don't agree with you I need more education... wow that's a pretty absolutist answer.

And your obvious point is oner that can't be discussed, so moot.

And what you see as the problem I don't,

it is several levels below that were the real issues are swirling.

And I don't care if you think I need more education.

[Insight]

Does anyone else get the feeling this thread is infested with professional propaganda posters employed by the reds? There seems to be a new talking point, farangs shut up, you don't know, you can't know ...

There's an interview with Nick Nostitz on yesterday's Stickman site which is pretty interesting reading. He states that this same type of statement is commonly heard when dealing with the PAD.

In my own experience it's been seen on this forum from Thai posters from all sides sadly, and is often followed by some backpedaling a few posts later once refuted.

Its only speculation and a feeling I get, that's all the pedaling you'll get from moi. Certainly political movements employ propaganda strategies. The reds insistence that their movement is related to pro democracy is one of those and one that they hope will sway international opinion towards the Thaksin side. The evidence for this comes straight out of Mr. T's mouth. We can assume there is some concern on the red's part about foreigner public opinion as they want to paint their movement as some kind of idealistic people's movement in the context of a Mandella or a Corey Aquino, when obviously it is nothing of the kind.

The reds can clearly see international opinion is going against them, mostly starting with Black Songkran. Now they want to paint all farangs in Thailand as sex tourists against the Thai people's interests. That is despicable.

(wasn't clear in my reply - the attitude "farangs shut up, you don't know, you can't know ..." seems a more common response from PAD members, according to Nick's interview).

But yeah - call me paranoid - I also think this site and others are often "targeted". You only have to look at the utterly ridiculous manipulation of the BKK Post polls for proof of this. After all, if you're a journalist and you're looking for the sway of public opinion on a subject, an online forum is as good a place as any? (or, at least, was...)

Unlikely we'll ever be able to prove it, unless drastic "revealing" measures are taken such as slightly masked IP addresses per post along with country of origin...

[animatic]

The red shirt party lost the Surat Thani by-election yesterday by a vote count of 122,032 votes to the winning Democrat and 24,624 for their man.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2297...urat-thani-seat

Not an insignificant margin.

Many remember how Thaksin hammered their budget when TRT didn't get their vote.

Like Elephants they remembered.

[kitiya1980]

emm...

Edited August 31, 2009 by kitiya1980

[Plus]

According to these numbers from Wiki Thailand's richest to poorest ratios are better than in the US for top/bottom 10% and 20%, though overall inequality index is higher:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...income_equality

The US may not be a good example for first world distribution of wealth comparison as it has always been labelled a country with first world GDP but third world distribution. Embarrasing for the US maybe (as I am not Amercian I wont conclude that) but not useful for comaprative cases and it shouldnt be used to justify Thailand's quite horrible distribution imho.

I have no idea why that poster started with the US.

Top/bottom 10% ratio in Thailand is lower than in the UK, too.

I don't know how much it matters. You hardly ever see the wealth of those ten percent anyway. Their existence is convenient to blame the elites for everything, though. Reducing their wealth will also never be on agenda. The concern, afaik, is with improving lives of the bottom 10%, and making 90% outside of top ten more homogenios because it's the interactions withing that group make people realise inequalities. Incomes in the top group are mostly intangible, like stock options or land value, or luxury properties in far away places we will never know about.

[mc2]

The Distribution of Wealth in America 2009

Data suggests that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation's net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

Now given that it is far worse in Thailand's for the poor, it is comical seeing so many of the posts here by Farang which appear to be in support of the filthy rich.

Here is what I seem to hear from many posts.

Thai poor in red shirts do not need democracy.

They are happy--after all we hear them singing.

If the red group wins an election it is of course because of bought votes.

Now a logical person seeing that the yellow side has most of the money might wonder about vote buying. I mean if the yellow has the huge money behind it and votes are so easy to buy, why is it they are losing the elections? is it because the yellow group does not offer to buy votes? HAAAA HAAAAA--That is so funny. of course they buy votes and still they lose elections.

So Not all people are so easy to buy as what is said by the yellow.

If Thai people were so happy with the ruling rich yellow--why is it they vote for red even after the leader is gone?

The poor people in Thailand are being raped by the rich and we have brain-dead farang here defending the yellow.

The Farang in Thailand must be from the uneducated of their nations.

No people with any reading would say the nonsense these dim-rads say her.

Oh well--it is a Thai problem.

Thai people will settle it.

But the stupidity I read here from right-wing morons is comical.

great post and agree 100%

funny to see them scrambling ( ballpoint , jingthing, twap, etc) ... quite pathetic really

Edited August 31, 2009 by mc2

[Plus]

Well, Mc2, I just showed you numbers that wealth distribution in the US in some aspects is worse than here. You missed it, apparently.

[mc2]

Well, Mc2, I just showed you numbers that wealth distribution in the US in some aspects is worse than here. You missed it, apparently.

that has no effect on the essential argument of madis post, but anyhow, i think there is no doubt as to the extent and seriousness of the exploitation of the poor by the rich in Thailand.

Edited August 31, 2009 by mc2

[Plus]

Yeah, sweet talking millions of poor to get your state impounded money back to you to enjoy is exploitation, too.

[mc2]

Yeah, sweet talking millions of poor to get your state impounded money back to you to enjoy is exploitation, too.

walk a single day in their shoes, might want to try that in your imagination, it might help you to see the other half of Thailand and this political equation.

Until then your just a one sided fanatic that can't show any empathy, respect or understanding of these people. may as well throw that word, "reconciliation" into the waste basket because you will never be able to use it.

[noithip]

Well, Mc2, I just showed you numbers that wealth distribution in the US in some aspects is worse than here. You missed it, apparently.

that has no effect on the essential argument of madis post, but anyhow, i think there is no doubt as to the extent and seriousness of the exploitation of the poor by the rich in Thailand.

So bring back Robin the Hood? Someone that understands the poor? I think this whole argumentation lost little bit of reality....again. The only person ever really caring about poor people in Thailand helped them the last 60 years and still does! So I don't think we need some rich-kid, educated in a Chiang Mai convent school to tell us how much he cares (or knows) about the poor, he had his try, he failed, the country should move on.

Edited August 31, 2009 by noithip

[Datsun240Z]

The Distribution of Wealth in America 2009

Data suggests that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation's net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

Now given that it is far worse in Thailand's for the poor, it is comical seeing so many of the posts here by Farang which appear to be in support of the filthy rich.

Here is what I seem to hear from many posts.

Thai poor in red shirts do not need democracy.

They are happy--after all we hear them singing.

If the red group wins an election it is of course because of bought votes.

Now a logical person seeing that the yellow side has most of the money might wonder about vote buying. I mean if the yellow has the huge money behind it and votes are so easy to buy, why is it they are losing the elections? is it because the yellow group does not offer to buy votes? HAAAA HAAAAA--That is so funny. of course they buy votes and still they lose elections.

So Not all people are so easy to buy as what is said by the yellow.

If Thai people were so happy with the ruling rich yellow--why is it they vote for red even after the leader is gone?

The poor people in Thailand are being raped by the rich and we have brain-dead farang here defending the yellow.

The Farang in Thailand must be from the uneducated of their nations.

No people with any reading would say the nonsense these dim-rads say her.

Oh well--it is a Thai problem.

Thai people will settle it.

But the stupidity I read here from right-wing morons is comical.

great post and agree 100%

funny to see them scrambling ( ballpoint , jingthing, twap, etc) ... quite pathetic really

Well said guys.

[Insight]

You call *that* a great post, doc?

The Distribution of Wealth in America 2009

Data suggests that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation's net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

Now given that it is far worse in Thailand's for the poor, it is comical seeing so many of the posts here by Farang which appear to be in support of the filthy rich.

Here is what I seem to hear from many posts.

Thai poor in red shirts do not need democracy.

They are happy--after all we hear them singing.

If the red group wins an election it is of course because of bought votes.

When have we said this?

Now a logical person seeing that the yellow side has most of the money might wonder about vote buying. I mean if the yellow has the huge money behind it and votes are so easy to buy, why is it they are losing the elections? is it because the yellow group does not offer to buy votes? HAAAA HAAAAA--That is so funny. of course they buy votes and still they lose elections.

So Not all people are so easy to buy as what is said by the yellow.

Here's a bizarre concept, but what if no vote buying has actually been taking place by the yellows/Democrats...? Or - most likely - What if they've been simply outbid?

If Thai people were so happy with the ruling rich yellow--why is it they vote for red even after the leader is gone?

How many times have we heard a Phua Thai MP declared he'll bring bag Thaksin, usually in the run up to a local election?

The poor people in Thailand are being raped by the rich and we have brain-dead farang here defending the yellow.

The Farang in Thailand must be from the uneducated of their nations.

No people with any reading would say the nonsense these dim-rads say her.

Oh well--it is a Thai problem.

Thai people will settle it.

But the stupidity I read here from right-wing morons is comical.

This flawless post seems to of ended in a rather insulting tone...

[hammered]

If you believe that someone has created a second account that contravenes TV rules, then use the report button. Flaming and flame-baiting as well as name calling isn't the best method to use.

It would appear that the since the redshirt rally was postponed for political reasons--at least the ISA and the response by them would fall into the political realm--I am wondering what implication a later rally might have.

It seems that they called the gov'ts hand. It wouldn't be good to keep an ISA in place for a long period of time, and it wouldn't look good to keep re-imposing it. As it draws closer to the anniversary of the coup, is it likely to whip up greater sentiment on either side?

In this instance, whose side is time and delaying tactics on?

The role of the sound file in the weekends secrutiy declaration and cancellation of the rally need to be consdiered now that the file has seemingly been traced back to a company connected to a politcal group that seems to ruile out third party stuff.

I wouldnt believe what anyone is saying as to why the rally was cancelled. Convenient excuses and spin are now heavily at play by all sides. Why did the government really put the ISA in place? What was the file really intended to do? How did it really leak (very interestign stories on Thai forums that explain why the damaging trace information was on the file ), and why was the rally really cancelled are the main questions. Oh and add in when did the government or more specifically the Dems first know about the file and from whence it came and when did those who create the file fiorst discover the other side knew about it? Dangerous games involving dangerous and nasty people.

[MyphuketLife]

Maybe the money not came?

No money no rally.....

I am not aware that the red shirts do get a cut of the 10% surcharge that this government has planned on an outrageous loan that they are about to take out OR were you born yesterday?

You are not aware that most of the red shirts join for a 500 Baht per day.

I thought thats what the yellows got?

[MyphuketLife]

I just hope Thailand will become a true democratic country in the near future, and foreigners have equal rights, as Thais.

Keep dreaming... it won't happen in your or your kids life time.

[hammered]

Notice some Thai analysts in Thai media are linking the cancellation to the backfiring of the audio thingy with some specualtion this will go to disolution of a political party. Interesting. Now potential disolution really gives Abhisit a lot of options with the timing of an election.

[animatic]

Insight nicely dissected a far left diatribe,

ending in an insult to many moderates for not being far enough left.

Other wise not worth commenting on.

Never addressed the obvious whys behind the questions

and goes to a illogical conclusion.

Not worth the trouble for further comment.

No doubt the sad attempt to 'PRE-paint the government as violently intentioned',

before the reds rally went out of control walkabout, was so badly discredited,

that there was no back story to play off. Add Thaksin's army buddies with little doubt

told him WHICH army units would be on alert, and who controlled them.

So he decided he had no chance of making an artificial stink stick to the wall.

But every chance of having his street leaders locked up for breaking their

post Songkran bond agreements. Tactical retreat.

And now with 2 of Yinglucks staff arrested for the alleged disemination of

a doctored hatchet tape... well looks like still ANOTHER Team Thaksin miscalculation.

The squeaky clean little sister is now tarred with big bro's slime. Shame.

Seems Yaweh opened the skys Sunday, just in case the message was not clear enough.

Edited August 31, 2009 by animatic

[Bukseeda]

Well, Mc2, I just showed you numbers that wealth distribution in the US in some aspects is worse than here. You missed it, apparently.

that has no effect on the essential argument of madis post, but anyhow, i think there is no doubt as to the extent and seriousness of the exploitation of the poor by the rich in Thailand.

And you don't think Thaksin and his cronies have exploited the poor?