Uk- Indefinite Leave To Enter

[Andrew Hicks]

I have a feeling that if my Thai wife and I have been married for a certain length of time, instead of going for a settlement visa, she can immediately apply for indefinite leave to enter the UK.

What is this and does it in any way foreshorten or sustitute the progress to indefinite leave to remain?

And please forgive me... how long does it take to get ILR and does that mean she can remain indefinitely even if she does not go for or achieve citizenship? I need to understand the two alternatives, if such they are.

Many thanks,

Andrew

[7by7]

Indefinite leave to enter and indefinite leave to remain are to all intents and purposes the same; except ILE is applied for and granted outside the UK and ILR within the UK.

See this thread for more detail.

Both ILE and ILR are indefinite, not permanent. Both can, and will lapse, if it becomes apparent the holder is no longer resident in the UK, usually after an absence of 2 years or more. Citizenship, once granted, can't lapse; so all other things being equal it makes sense, I feel, to take the extra step of taking out British citizenship once qualified.

Both the UK and Thailand allow dual citizenship.

[Brigante7]

But if you have no plans to leave the UK for 2 years or more then I wouldn't bother going for a UK passport and save yourself £750.

Brigante7.

[Andrew Hicks]

Indefinite leave to enter and indefinite leave to remain are to all intents and purposes the same; except ILE is applied for and granted outside the UK and ILR within the UK.

See this thread for more detail.

Both ILE and ILR are indefinite, not permanent. Both can, and will lapse, if it becomes apparent the holder is no longer resident in the UK, usually after an absence of 2 years or more. Citizenship, once granted, can't lapse; so all other things being equal it makes sense, I feel, to take the extra step of taking out British citizenship once qualified.

Both the UK and Thailand allow dual citizenship.

My grateful thanks, 7by7, for your advice and for referring me to your other thread.

All very helpful and clear (in so far as that i possible!).

Andrew

[paully]

Also your wife would need to have passed her Life in the UK test before applying for ILE, and this (I believe) still can't be taken outside the UK.

[orchidofsiam]

Also your wife would need to have passed her Life in the UK test before applying for ILE, and this (I believe) still can't be taken outside the UK.

True, the test must be taken in the UK.

[7by7]

But the test can be taken whilst in the UK as a visitor, and it does not lapse. So, one could take the test next time one is here for a holiday/family visit so that when/if the time comes to apply for ILE it can be granted straight away.

If this isn't possible then one would in effect be granted ILE subject to passing the test. So one could apply for ILR in the UK as soon as the test (or equivalent) was passed without having to wait until one had been resident for 2 years.

Both the above assume all the other criteria for ILE are met, of course.

[bkk_mike]

My wife had ILR (granted in 2000 before the LitUK requirements came in).

Unfortunately we lost the old passport, either in Thailand or Hong Kong, and ended up applying for a returning resident visa, and got an ILE stamp. (We had a copy of the old ILR stamp, so proof was relatively straightforward).

The odd thing is, the ILE vignette states "Indefinite Leave to Enter", but has an expiry.

That expiry date appears to be 2 years from the last time she left the UK, so appears to simply be when she has to enter the UK by.

i.e. Either this is a mistake at the embassy and the until date should be blank, or it's the immigration service coming up with the worst design of an indefinite visa stamp that I can possibly imagine...

Alternatively, is it corrected in her passport at immigration, or do we need to go to Croydon, or is the expiry date simply crossed out? (I really don't want an airline to not let us board at some point in the future because it looks like her visa isn't valid.)

Note: This is significantly BEFORE the expiry date of her passport, so travelling with it after that until date will be fun...

Edited November 10, 2009 by bkk_mike

[bkk_mike]

My wife had ILR (granted in 2000 before the LitUK requirements came in).

Unfortunately we lost the old passport, either in Thailand or Hong Kong, and ended up applying for a returning resident visa, and got an ILE stamp. (We had a copy of the old ILR stamp, so proof was relatively straightforward).

The odd thing is, the ILE vignette states "Indefinite Leave to Enter", but has an expiry.

That expiry date appears to be 2 years from the last time she left the UK, so appears to simply be when she has to enter the UK by.

i.e. Either this is a mistake at the embassy and the until date should be blank, or it's the immigration service coming up with the worst design of an indefinite visa stamp that I can possibly imagine...

Alternatively, is it corrected in her passport at immigration, or do we need to go to Croydon, or is the expiry date simply crossed out? (I really don't want an airline to not let us board at some point in the future because it looks like her visa isn't valid.)

Note: This is significantly BEFORE the expiry date of her passport, so travelling with it after that until date will be fun...

Note: Done some reading, and apparently the end date is supposed to be the expiry date of the passport because an open end date can't be produced by the embassy, only by the border agency.

ECB9.6 at this entry on the UK Border Agency website

Seems like I have to make yet another trip to the embassy as the expiry date given is 2½ years before the passport expires.

Edited November 10, 2009 by bkk_mike

[bkk_mike]

Went to the embassy today and they are adamant that as it's returning resident, that it's supposed to have an end date of 2 years since you last left the UK.

Reading online, immigration at the airport will be fine with the end date as they only care about the time since your last entry, but it seems ridiculous to have an "Indefinite" visa with an end date on it, if only because of the hassle of trying to persuade airlines it's not a problem.

Embassy said we have to go to the Home Office to regularise the status, but I have no idea what they mean. If you have ILE, you're not supposed to have to apply for ILR.

[Eff1n2ret]

Embassy said we have to go to the Home Office to regularise the status, but I have no idea what they mean. If you have ILE, you're not supposed to have to apply for ILR.

"Regularise the status" is a rather clumsy expression, as it implies that her status is in some way irregular at present. But the answer to your conundrum is included in the paragraph to which you provided the link:-

When her passport expires she will have to apply for "Transfer of Conditions" to her new passport, and should then get a sticker showing Indefinite Leave to Remain with no expiry date. For that small service they'll relieve you of about 150 quid. But it will be an application for Transfer of Conditions, not for ILR

But you're right, I didn't read your previous post properly. I would have thought they should have dated it the same as the expiry date on the passport.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Eff1n2ret

[the scouser]

My reading of the situation is that as your wife has been issued entry clearance as a returning resident, and in order to continue to be a returning resident one cannot have spent more than 2 years outside of the UK, then perhaps the UKBA is correct to limit the new visa's validity to a date of 2 years since your wife last left. To make it valid beyond that date would give her the facility to delay her return to the UK until such a time as she has spent more than 2 years outside the country.

If your wife later wishes to have her status endorsed in a new passport, she should complete form NTL at a cost of £165.00.

Scouse.

[Eff1n2ret]

My reading of the situation is that as your wife has been issued entry clearance as a returning resident, and in order to continue to be a returning resident one cannot have spent more than 2 years outside of the UK, then perhaps the UKBA is correct to limit the new visa's validity to a date of 2 years since your wife last left. To make it valid beyond that date would give her the facility to delay her return to the UK until such a time as she has spent more than 2 years outside the country.

If your wife later wishes to have her status endorsed in a new passport, she should complete form NTL at a cost of £165.00.

Scouse.

OK, NTL is probably more appropriate than TOC, but isn't there still a problem with the hiatus between the expiry date of the ILE visa, and the expiry of the passport? If the holder travels outside the UK during that period, she is likely to be denied boarding by most airlines.

It's arguable that the embassy has not followed their own instructions as indicated by BKKMike, and if the holder was to delay their first return to the UK until, say, a few days before the visa expired, the IO on arrival should notice and would be entitled to enquire whether there was a change of circumstances.

I suppose she could apply for an NTL endorsement in her current passport as the EC expires, but that's another £165 on top of the cost of the EC and again in the new passport.

The moral is, don't lose your wretched passport.!

[the scouser]

Once the visa expires, it should be apparent to UK immigration officers from the stamps in the wife's passport that she continues to qualify as a returning resident, but I quite agree that it leaves the door open for airline check-in staff, who can't be expected to be aware of every nuance, to possibly deny boarding on the basis that the visa itself has expired. However, once the first entry has been made on the basis of the RR visa, the visa itself ceases to be relevant and will be superseded by stamps in the passport.

Hope you're settling in, J. - you lucky bugger!

Scouse.

[bkk_mike]

Once the visa expires, it should be apparent to UK immigration officers from the stamps in the wife's passport that she continues to qualify as a returning resident, but I quite agree that it leaves the door open for airline check-in staff, who can't be expected to be aware of every nuance, to possibly deny boarding on the basis that the visa itself has expired. However, once the first entry has been made on the basis of the RR visa, the visa itself ceases to be relevant and will be superseded by stamps in the passport.

Hope you're settling in, J. - you lucky bugger!

Scouse.

I have no worries about immigration knowing the rules.

As you say, the problem is boarding the flight in the gap between the end date of the returning resident ILE visa, and the end date of the passport as it will require the check-in person to understand that the indefinite Leave to Enter is still valid after it's "until" date. (to suggest this is bad design would be an understatement)

I'm sure this is why the Border Agency website states that ILE be dated to the end of the passport. (and I'd ideally prefer to not have to pay an additional £165 on top of the £215 it's already cost us to get the returning resident, all because of a lost expired passport, at least until we're looking at using the NTL with a new passport.)

Given the cost of the stamp, and the cost of a Thai passport, my wife's best option may be to get a new passport when the visa reaches it's until date, then do the NTL then. Despite the fact she'll be losing 2½ years on her current passport, at least the NTL will then be in a 5 year passport that can be extended to 10 years.

P.S. My wife already has ILR. All that's happened is we've lost the passport with the ILR stamp in it. (we have copies, but not the actual expired passport itself).

Edited November 12, 2009 by bkk_mike

[7by7]

My wife had ILR (granted in 2000 before the LitUK requirements came in).

If she had aaplied for naturalisation as British, then she would have a British passport for leaving and entering the UK, so would not need any form of UK visa stamp in her Thai passport, and could travel freely in Europe and elsewhere without a visa.

She can still apply, of course, but it's a lot more expensive than if she'd applied when first qualified and she will have to pass the LitUK test.

[yeesipha]

HI

can someone offer some advice please on when applying for ILR,is ILR granted PURELY on the fact, that the marrage is still in force,and the

applicant has passed the kol requirment, and the couple

are still together? and when applying for ILR does the previous sponser still have to supply all the documents that he or she supplied when

the spouse visa was issued in BKK,and has there got to be much money in the accounts of the couple,what if there not working and dont have

much money,but their relationship is still going from strength to strength,do they refuse ILR grant ILR,also what would happen if they did not grant

the applicant ILR,do they hold the PP and then turn up on your door step and deport the applicant because they dont meet the requirments?

Has anybody on here ever herd of any couple being refused ILR status,if they have what happend to them?

thx,has any body got an idea of what questions are on the ILR application any links would be much helpful.

thx.

[7by7]

Most of your questions can be answered by reading Completing application form SET(M) and the relevant links on the right hand side of that page.

As far as I know, if an ILR application is refused then the applicant is not immediately deported but given time to regularise their stay by applying for FLR or time to get their affairs in order before they leave the UK; however I cannot recall anyone who has been refused except for not satisfying the KOL requirement, and they applied for and were granted FLR following the ILR refusal.

BTW, could you please not double space when typing your posts; it makes them difficult to read; thanks.

[yeesipha]

Thank you 7by7 for the link and information provided

cheers.