Seeking Sustainable Growth For Chiang Mai

[WaiWai]

Writer: Stories by VASANA CHINVARAKORN

Published: 27/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

bangkokpost.com/leisure/leisurescoop/22784/seeking-sustainable-growth-for-chiang-mai

Newspaper section: Outlook

"Over the past few months, Paisal Surathammawit has been carrying measurement tape wherever he goes around the city of Chiang Mai. The owner of a small guest house in an alley off Manee Nopparat Road has joined a campaign to raise awareness of the potential impact of a new city plan. Upon learning that it might entail substantial expansion of 35 roads in the downtown area (and 65 altogether for the province), and thus the tearing down or drastic shrinkage of properties on both sides of the existing roads, a few of them built more than a century ago, Paisal devised a creative technique to make his peers and neighbours realise how much damage such a scheme might bring about were it to transpire as proposed by the Department of Public Works and Town and Country Planning, a unit under the Ministry of Interior."

See link above for complete article.

[ctrunfree]

Or they could just make the road go around them...

[Donnyboy]

the article cont...

By unreeling the plastic tape and stretching it from the middle of the existing roads into individual houses and buildings on both sides, Paisal effectively shows how the expanded roads, originally projected to be as wide as 20, 30 or even 60 metres, could fundamentally wipe out the unique landscape of 713-year-old Chiang Mai

60 metres wide????? <deleted>

"In recent years, there has been a rigorous push to turn Chiang Mai into a hub of the Mekong sub-region [despite the fact that the city is a few hundred kilometres away from the river], of aviation, IT and international conferences industries, you name it. There are plans to build more superhighways, hotels and high-rises, but with the disappearances of temples and historic sites, would people still want to come back here?"

yeah what we really want, more superhighways, hotels

why dont they start by getting those power lines under ground, and making a decent sidewalk all around the city, and add trees, not concrete buildings

Edited August 30, 2009 by Donnyboy

[orang37]

... snip ... Paisal Surathammawit has been carrying measurement tape wherever he goes around the city of Chiang Mai. ... snip ... Upon learning that it might entail substantial expansion of 35 roads in the downtown area (and 65 altogether for the province), and thus the tearing down or drastic shrinkage of properties on both sides of the existing roads, a few of them built more than a century ago, Paisal devised a creative technique to make his peers and neighbours realise how much damage such a scheme might bring about were it to transpire ... snip ...

Thanks, Khun Wai Wai, for this interesting quote and link.

All the best to Khun Paisal in his quest ! I wish I could be optimistic that his efforts, or the efforts of any group of Chiang Mai citizens, could make a difference in what appears to me to be the inevitable decline of this "classic" city of Chiang Mai in the face of power and money. I don't know which is worse : the congestion and pollution of the inner city, the festering pustule of the Night Bazaar, or the yuppification of Nimmanheimen.

Once upon a time, the direct ancestor of what is now "CityLife" magazine was a newsletter which did strive to be somewhat activist in terms of environmental issues, and urban planning issues (not that the farangs who wrote it, or read it, had any real power to do anything but support local Thai activists). To me what CityLife is today : a content-free zone binder for glossy hi-so consumerism advertisements is a perfect reflection of what the City is becoming (I stopped reading it about the time they began to print issues with salacious covers with headlines about "our sex workers" and such : must be two years since I last read it ?).

But, so it goes. And so, many cities "go" around the world. I don't think there's anything particularly "Thai" about what is happening here looked at from a "global" perspective. I think about my time in Ubud, in Bali, to me one of the most beautiful places on earth, and the center of a uniquely vital culture in which the average person of that culture directly participates in the arts : well, Ubud was so full of tourists while I was there that it was hard to keep that culture in focus (until I put on a sarong [to be "respectful"] and went inside a temple for a festival). Or, what's happening now in Luang Prabang. Nothing stands still.

Pizza Hut, McDonald's, Burger King, Swensen's and Baskin-Robbins : uber alles

It's important, I think, to remember that some of what farangs are presented with as "Lanna" culture was invented from whole cloth, such as the whole Khantoke dinner thing (cooked up in the 1960's by a circle of Chiang Mai luminaries that included Khun Suntaree, and the banker and scholar Kraisri Nimmanheimenda). Other appropriations of cultural materials now being passed off as "Lanna" are, in fact, wholesale inventions based on the princely culture of the former Shan States with a mixture of Wat architecture (think of the 4 star hotel initials DD which looks like a "Disney" version of a Shan Palace, and looks more like a Wat than the real Thai Wat just near it).

Too bad that the inner city of Chiang Mai (within the moat), and the area from Thapae Gate down to the Ping including what is now Talat Wararot, Wat Bupparam, etc., was not declared a World Heritage site years ago. And that zones of commerce exclusion around the most important (historically, culturally) Wats like Chedi Luang, Phra Singh, Chiang Man, Suan Dok, etc. were not created and enforced.

My pessimism only increased when the Fine Arts department took down the wall around Wat U Mong.

All that said, I confess to, once in a while, going to the Night Bazaar, and enjoying it, and I really love to go to Khun Suntaree's new restaurant (Huan Suntaree) and hear her sing the old songs like "Sao Chiang Mai," in that unique keening nasal voice (yes, I do miss her old, smaller, place nearer the city, but her new place is beautiful, and I'm so happy to see her continuing to be such a great success).

I'm just praying that certain now relatively few "open spaces," like the Gymkhana Club, will stay "open" in the future (and become protected parks for the benefit of all citizens of Chiang Mai). And hats off to whatever/whoever has kept Wiang Khum Kham still lovely (should I thank the Ping River for having changed its course and buried it for several centuries, thus causing King Mengrai to found a new city of Chiang Mai ?).

The future of Chiang Mai is not for me to decide, it's for Thais, but I hope for the best in spite of my own "disenchantment." I do love living here, and if I reach the point I don't like living here : I can move

best, ~o:37;

Edited August 30, 2009 by orang37

[anonymouse]

A good post from Mr Orang and I understood it pretty much agree with all you are saying except for the dig at City Life I still believe amongst all the hi so consumer cr*p there have been some interesting articles.

Where is Huan suntaree situated?

I still haven't visited Wiang Khum Kham it will be on my to do list when the cool season arrives.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I don't think I agree. A lot of the development going on is actually very tasteful; you could point at som brain dead hotels like the Meridien and Shangri La (and Amora), but any walk through the old town area will reveal that many new boutique developments are stunningly beautiful and work very well in the environment.

The thing about removing temples is just hyperbole; makes it hard to take other claims at face value to be honest. And 'new super highways' : Guess what, those are the Middle and Outer ring which actually channel development AWAY from the old town. So it's all good.

Nimmanhaemin: Same.. it's WAY out of town, it used to a be suburbia basically.. Very nice developments there, and, would you rather yuppify that area way out near CMU or would you yuppify Talad Warorot or the old town? Yuppies are people too, and people spending money in those areas is what drives the economy. Don't like it? ME NEITHER, I'm no yuppie, but please have a quick look at what is happening in the Santhithamm neighbourhood.. It used to be the grimmest area in Chiang Mai but there's a real buzz and vibe to it now, and a lot of the people who don't like the yuppiness or expense of Nimmanhaemin are going there to hang or live.

River front area: Same. Thapae Road: Some of the old shop houses are very nice, many are renovated instead of just torn down. Shows a lot of Chiang Mai people appreciate the identity and uniqueness of the architecture.

I agree we need to be critical of road widening proposals especially in the old town area and immediately around it. But looking at the bigger picture, and seeing what's actually being built, I think it's all good and very exciting.

[venturalaw]

I don't think I agree. A lot of the development going on is actually very tasteful; you could point at som brain dead hotels like the Meridien and Shangri La (and Amora), but any walk through the old town area will reveal that many new boutique developments are stunningly beautiful and work very well in the environment.

The thing about removing temples is just hyperbole; makes it hard to take other claims at face value to be honest. And 'new super highways' : Guess what, those are the Middle and Outer ring which actually channel development AWAY from the old town. So it's all good.

Nimmanhaemin: Same.. it's WAY out of town, it used to a be suburbia basically.. Very nice developments there, and, would you rather yuppify that area way out near CMU or would you yuppify Talad Warorot or the old town? Yuppies are people too, and people spending money in those areas is what drives the economy. Don't like it? ME NEITHER, I'm no yuppie, but please have a quick look at what is happening in the Santhithamm neighbourhood.. It used to be the grimmest area in Chiang Mai but there's a real buzz and vibe to it now, and a lot of the people who don't like the yuppiness or expense of Nimmanhaemin are going there to hang or live.

River front area: Same. Thapae Road: Some of the old shop houses are very nice, many are renovated instead of just torn down. Shows a lot of Chiang Mai people appreciate the identity and uniqueness of the architecture.

I agree we need to be critical of road widening proposals especially in the old town area and immediately around it. But looking at the bigger picture, and seeing what's actually being built, I think it's all good and very exciting.

Good overview of what is going on.

Edited August 30, 2009 by venturalaw

[slapout]

Many of the streets being considered in this project could eliminate all parking and achieve a drastic increase in traffic flow. Enforce the ordinance against vendors on the streets and foot path, another temptation taken away. Rental companies required to have off street parking for units, and see what transpires during a 6 month trial. The bib could be stationed along the routes to enforce and still get their mad money. But when the traffic lights can not be set in sequence we may as well divert the river to prevent flooding while we are doing mega project improvement.

[orang37]

... snip ... pretty much agree with all you are saying except for the dig at City Life I still believe amongst all the hi so consumer cr*p there have been some interesting articles. ... Where is Huan suntaree situated? ... I still haven't visited Wiang Khum Kham it will be on my to do list when the cool season arrives.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Anonymouse,

I and I are glad we are not just a duo ! "Trois" makes such a better menage.

I agree with you that what I said about CityLife was inappropriate, and I have asked the mods to remove the message. I want to re-consider my words, perhaps re-state them.

Huan Suntaree (in Lanna language, or "cam meung," I am told that "huan," means "restaurant"), named after the famous chanteuse of the "northern Thai cultural revival," Khun Suntaree, is now on the west bank of the Ping north of the SuperHighway (her old place was also on the west bank of the Ping, but not too far from the Rama IX (Praram Kao) bridge north of the Talat Mueur Mai area. It's hard for me to guess-timate how far north of the SuperHighway, but it ain't close. I'll see if I have phone number for you; I would guess her new location is now on the Nancy Chandler map, or other local maps ?

Khun Suntaree usually sings every night starting about 9pm, accompanied usually by acoustic amplified steel-string guitar; there is live music happening before that from a variety of performers, in my experience. The food (back when I had taste buds) was great ! The prices very reasonable. Sometimes Khun Suntaree's daughter, Lara (Laura ?) Cummins, a "star" in her own right, also sings.

Wiang Khum Kham makes a great half-day trip, and I usually take friends visiting Chiang Mai there, do the whole thing with the horse and buggy ride around the ancient ruins, visit King Mengrai's shrine, etc.

best, ~o:37;

[konjianghai]

Huen means house (wooden house ganlan style). Huen Suntree = Suntree's ganlan house.

Lanna Cummings is the name.

Edited August 30, 2009 by konjianghai

[anonymouse]

... snip ... pretty much agree with all you are saying except for the dig at City Life I still believe amongst all the hi so consumer cr*p there have been some interesting articles. ... Where is Huan suntaree situated? ... I still haven't visited Wiang Khum Kham it will be on my to do list when the cool season arrives.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Anonymouse,

I and I are glad we are not just a duo ! "Trois" makes such a better menage.

I agree with you that what I said about CityLife was inappropriate, and I have asked the mods to remove the message. I want to re-consider my words, perhaps re-state them.

Huan Suntaree (in Lanna language, or "cam meung," I am told that "huan," means "restaurant"), named after the famous chanteuse of the "northern Thai cultural revival," Khun Suntaree, is now on the west bank of the Ping north of the SuperHighway (her old place was also on the west bank of the Ping, but not too far from the Rama IX (Praram Kao) bridge north of the Talat Mueur Mai area. It's hard for me to guess-timate how far north of the SuperHighway, but it ain't close. I'll see if I have phone number for you; I would guess her new location is now on the Nancy Chandler map, or other local maps ?

Khun Suntaree usually sings every night starting about 9pm, accompanied usually by acoustic amplified steel-string guitar; there is live music happening before that from a variety of performers, in my experience. The food (back when I had taste buds) was great ! The prices very reasonable. Sometimes Khun Suntaree's daughter, Lara (Laura ?) Cummins, a "star" in her own right, also sings.

Wiang Khum Kham makes a great half-day trip, and I usually take friends visiting Chiang Mai there, do the whole thing with the horse and buggy ride around the ancient ruins, visit King Mengrai's shrine, etc.

best, ~o:37;

Thanks for the info, a phone number would be great it sounds like a place the wife and I would enjoy. I'll save the Wiang Khum Khan trip for when I've got visitors.

[rodcourt49]

Or they could just make the road go around them...

That stretch of road was widened and now includes a 'bike lane' which hapens to pass on the inside of the tree..you should have seen it when they re-routed the drainage system around these 'holy' and 'protected trees'.

[rodcourt49]

the article cont...

By unreeling the plastic tape and stretching it from the middle of the existing roads into individual houses and buildings on both sides, Paisal effectively shows how the expanded roads, originally projected to be as wide as 20, 30 or even 60 metres, could fundamentally wipe out the unique landscape of 713-year-old Chiang Mai

60 metres wide????? <deleted>

"In recent years, there has been a rigorous push to turn Chiang Mai into a hub of the Mekong sub-region [despite the fact that the city is a few hundred kilometres away from the river], of aviation, IT and international conferences industries, you name it. There are plans to build more superhighways, hotels and high-rises, but with the disappearances of temples and historic sites, would people still want to come back here?"

yeah what we really want, more superhighways, hotels

why dont they start by getting those power lines under ground, and making a decent sidewalk all around the city, and add trees, not concrete buildings

Well..the plan also includes the 'white' LPG buses at minimal fare which hardly anyone is using cause the local owners of red taxis will not comply with order to get most of them off the roads.

[Thakkar]

snip

...CityLife...I want to re-consider my words, perhaps re-state them...snip

best, ~o:37;

Khun Orang,

Glad you're re-considering your opinion of Citylife. Do read the last several issues and I wager you will agree there has been much improvement. Yes, the tacky consumerism is still much in evidence, but if it increases readership and pays for the more "serious" journalism, I'm fine with it. Besides, we all need a little distraction as well.

Cheers/T

[orang37]

Huen means house (wooden house ganlan style). Huen Suntree = Suntree's ganlan house. Lanna Cummings is the name.

Sawasdee Khrup, Konjianghai,

Thanks for enlightening me here !

best, ~o:37;

[john b good]

snip

...CityLife...I want to re-consider my words, perhaps re-state them...snip

best, ~o:37;

Khun Orang,

Glad you're re-considering your opinion of Citylife. Do read the last several issues and I wager you will agree there has been much improvement. Yes, the tacky consumerism is still much in evidence, but if it increases readership and pays for the more "serious" journalism, I'm fine with it. Besides, we all need a little distraction as well.

Cheers/T

The facts are. "Chiang Mai City Life" is the best quality (English speaking) magazine ever published in the 700 plus years that Chiang Mai has been on the map.

The only other one that could claim to come remotely close was Good Morning Chiang Mai which for a variety of reasons went belly up.

The tabloid Chiang Mai News is only fit for wrapping F & C in. (but then the ink probably contains carcinogens)

There are a number of other mags (or rags) that have been around over the years such as "Welcome to Chiangmai, Chiangrai & Mae Hong Sorn" (note that this magazinze cannot even spell Chiang Mai & Chiang Rai correctly. It's full of typo's, words, street names etc., are often spelled as many as 3 - 4 different way in any one edition. I politley pointed this out to Margaret (editor / publisher) in an email and in inimitable Thai fashion (and no she is not thai) she chose to ignore my comments and did not have the basic decency to even acknowledge my email.

Then we have Chang Puak magazine, and again a worhtless attempt to separate advertisers from their dosh.

May Pim and her team continue to produce their very fine publication. And no I am not a shareholder nor have I met the women.

Edited August 31, 2009 by john b good

[WaiWai]

Well..the plan also includes the 'white' LPG buses at minimal fare which hardly anyone is using

.

Where do these run?

I seem to have heard of quite a number of public buses whose life spans were short.

What public transport do we have here, exactly, apart from songthaews and tuk tuks?

[orang37]

... snip ... Glad you're re-considering your opinion of Citylife. Do read the last several issues and I wager you will agree there has been much improvement. ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Thakkar,

Thank you for providing me this opportunity to express my apologies to CityLife, and anyone associated with it, including Khun P., for my un-necessary, and stupid remarks (turns out I couldn't get them removed).

Anyone who has not read something for two years should realize that whatever-has-not-been-read has evolved, changed, and they probably have no valid current opinion (or may have never had one in the first place), and that any publication needs to make money via advertisement which is immaterial to the question of whether or not it has "enduring social value." My bad !

There are as many "real Chiang Mais" as there are "fantasy Chiang Mai's of yore." Two-hundred twenty-years ago what is now Chiang Mai was a de-populated wasteland (thanks to the rapacity of the later period of Burmese colonial exploitation) with what were the broad avenues of Kings Mengrai, Tilokkaraja, and their heirs, overgrown by jungles prowled by wild tigers, Wats fallen down.

The Chiang Mai of today inherits from a multi-cultural melting pot of peoples brought in as the city was re-claimed and re-populated by King Kawila, and as the "hammer of the threat of the old Burmese great empires" forged the permanent "great alliance" between what really were two "distinct" nations of the North and Ayudhya/Central Thailand (on the anvil of war) that formed the basis of the Kingdom of Thailand (helped along by the weakening of the Burmese, and Shan, due to British colonial expansion).

As Michael Vatikiotis (former editor of Far Eastern Economic Review, Ph.D., in the history of Chiang Mai from Chiang Mai University) noted in a speech on the 700th. anniversary of the City : the diversity of Chiang Mai today paradoxically results in part from the segregation of the captured peoples brought in to re-settle it, and from the segregation of other groups, like, for example, the silver working Mon famlies that settled Wu Lai road, for a long period of time. But there were other groups that came voluntarily, looking for a "better deal economically," or for refuge from, for example, the chaos on what is now peninsular Burma (just as, for example, the Mon potters who settled on the island of Ko Kred near Bangkok were "given" the island).

My sincere hopes for a wonderful future for Chiang Mai that reflects the values and aspirations of all Chiang Mai Thai citizens : may it become the best of all possible worlds, farang and Thai. If what Chiang Mai Thai citizens want is for Chiang Mai to become Thailand's "San Francisco" : arai ga dai.

But, once again, I am curious to know why Chiang Mai has never become a "World Heritage Site."

best, ~o:37;

[piercefilmlid]

To me what CityLife is today : a content-free zone binder for glossy hi-so consumerism advertisements is a perfect reflection of what the City is becoming (I stopped reading it about the time they began to print issues with salacious covers with headlines about "our sex workers" and such : must be two years since I last read it ?).

~o:37;

You say "To me what CityLife is today..." and then admit you have not read it for 2 years! Doh!

I enjoy CityLife, find the content interesting and have met some of the editorial staff - nice people. The reason why they need to advertise is generate revenue to pay their overheads. No advertising = no magazine. Understand?

Edited August 31, 2009 by piercefilmlid

[Priceless]

Thanks for the info, a phone number would be great it sounds like a place the wife and I would enjoy. I'll save the Wiang Khum Khan trip for when I've got visitors.

Here's their website: http://www.saochiangmai.com/ Unfortunately it is in Thai and reading Thai is still out of my reach. I imagine that the phone number is hiding in there somewhere, though

/ Priceless

[WaiWai]

As this thread has, predictably enough and with no detriment to my own jai yen yen, now been derailed all over town, I am wondering if Khun Orang may wish to comment on the following: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Orangutan-Bo...ld-t294132.html .

[caf]

snip

...CityLife...I want to re-consider my words, perhaps re-state them...snip

best, ~o:37;

Khun Orang,

Glad you're re-considering your opinion of Citylife. Do read the last several issues and I wager you will agree there has been much improvement. Yes, the tacky consumerism is still much in evidence, but if it increases readership and pays for the more "serious" journalism, I'm fine with it. Besides, we all need a little distraction as well.

Cheers/T

The facts are. "Chiang Mai City Life" is the best quality (English speaking) magazine ever published in the 700 plus years that Chiang Mai has been on the map.

The only other one that could claim to come remotely close was Good Morning Chiang Mai which for a variety of reasons went belly up.

The tabloid Chiang Mai News is only fit for wrapping F & C in. (but then the ink probably contains carcinogens)

There are a number of other mags (or rags) that have been around over the years such as "Welcome to Chiangmai, Chiangrai & Mae Hong Sorn" (note that this magazinze cannot even spell Chiang Mai & Chiang Rai correctly. It's full of typo's, words, street names etc., are often spelled as many as 3 - 4 different way in any one edition. I politley pointed this out to Margaret (editor / publisher) in an email and in inimitable Thai fashion (and no she is not thai) she chose to ignore my comments and did not have the basic decency to even acknowledge my email.

Then we have Chang Puak magazine, and again a worhtless attempt to separate advertisers from their dosh.

May Pim and her team continue to produce their very fine publication. And no I am not a shareholder nor have I met the women.

I know that the printing press was invented around 1439 but I had not realised Guthenberg was a Thai . So 570 years ago there was a publishing house in Chiangmai waiting for Pim to come along to take advantage of the invention? If only Citylife had been around then it would have revolutionised the whole of Northern Thailand giving information to the masses. A media first for the excellent editorial team headed by Khun Pim

[anonymouse]

Thanks for the info, a phone number would be great it sounds like a place the wife and I would enjoy. I'll save the Wiang Khum Khan trip for when I've got visitors.

Here's their website: http://www.saochiangmai.com/ Unfortunately it is in Thai and reading Thai is still out of my reach. I imagine that the phone number is hiding in there somewhere, though

/ Priceless

Thanks Priceless, I'll take a look

[orang37]

As this thread has, predictably enough and with no detriment to my own jai yen yen, now been derailed all over town, I am wondering if Khun Orang may wish to comment on the following: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Orangutan-Bo...ld-t294132.html .

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Wai Wai,

Sorry if my own foot-in-mouth-while-typing attack diverted your interesting thread in any way, but glad to hear your jai yen did not go temporarily gnu gnu plaa plaa !

About the link above : reading it I wasn't surprised that I wept; but, what did surprise me was that my human wept almost as many tears, while I read it, as the last time he looked in a mirror.

best, ~o:37;

[WaiWai]

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Wai Wai,

Sorry if my own foot-in-mouth-while-typing attack diverted your interesting thread in any way, but glad to hear your jai yen did not go temporarily gnu gnu plaa plaa !

best, ~o:37;

(Absolutely mai pen rai and not at all snakey or green at the gills about it; just an excuse to draw further attention to that topic.

Had to look up "gnu gnu plaa plaa" and thus learnt the phrase describes me well, though it probably helps with the jai yen yen -- or could that be more a ma ma hu hu 马马虎虎 -ishnesss ?)

So, nobody has a clue about public buses in Chiang Mai?

Edited September 1, 2009 by WaiWai