Living In China After Thailand

[j_cheung]

Then I must go East and North to investigate

.

You're late...!

"There's a Chinese saying that goes "shang you tian tang, xia you su hang" - up there is heaven, down here is Suzhou and Hangzhou. The first Westerner to visit Hangzhou, Marco Polo, marveled at its beauty. At the end of the 13th century, he described Hangzhou as "the City of Heaven, the most beautiful and magnificent in the world."

My wife is from Hangzhou*

Hangzhou had already 1 million people back then and was a very clean city with a perfect sewage system; in those days London and Paris had a mere 20-30,000 people.

LaoPo

Indeed. 上有天堂，下有苏杭。 A lot of old money from HK, Taiwan & S'pore have been moving in the past few years.

Plus the "Hu" (aka Yangtze or Shanghaiese) cuisine is simply marvelous too with the different styles of baozi (包子 aka steamed buns） and freshwater delights.

[j_cheung]

... ancestral homeland of most well-to-do Chinese in Thailand (the Teochu) is Swatow (Shantou), which is in Guangdong province near Hong Kong. Seemed to be cut from the same cloth.

I managed to extract myself from that and am back working with North Chinese. They seem to have a core level of ethics (and also a sense of cultural superiority).

That's why China is such a *big* country in that sense. Cultural & ethical differences vary from the brutally-honest plain-speaking northerners (with exception of the Cadre class) to the smooth but swarthy southerners.

[think_too_mut]

You are talking about Vietnam and Cambodia, right? Have you ever tried to do any real business in either place?

There is at least one more reason Vietnam will never host big businesses (factories of Toyota, Nissan, Honda...) for large scale manufacturing and export, as Thailand does.

Vietnam does not have deep sea ports, no way to take the goods out of the country. Even if it could (but can't) accommodate for large ships to bring in the components/parts.

[ferd54]

Also, when we went into town, we were incessantly pestered by beggars. They would follow you for blocks. Children would run around screaming to give them money or buy chewing gum from them. It was extremely annoying and made many people reluctant to go out much. They had moto-taxis just like in Thailand, but instead of sitting in a group waiting for people that needed a ride, the ones in China would drive around continually honking their horns. If they saw you walking down the street they would cluster around, following you honking the horns.

At least once a week, on the 5 km drive to the site, there would be dead body on the side of the road. It would be gone in afternoon, so I assume they had some organization that was responsible to pick them up.

The sidewalks in town were completely covered in spit, you just had to ignore it and walk over it. The shopkeepers all over charged and you had count your change carefully. They would refuse to give the tax recipes (fapiao) they are legally required to give, often refusing to do so unless you paid them extra.

Service in the dept stores was deplorable. Once you had paid, you had to go to another counter to get the fapiao, and these in particular were utter chaos. Luckily, as westerners tend to be bigger then the average Chinese, you learned quickly to take advantage of that, otherwise you would never get to the front.

I have no doubt this could be true. As I've said repeatedly, the experience out in the provinces would be completely different from mine. I will never live there, but then again I would never live in Khon Kaen, but some farang do. I suspect the provinces of Thailand are vastly better for foreigners than the provinces of China.

That's exactly why I like the fact they keep a tight grip on things in Beijing. On the one hand, foreigners lecture the Chinese about more freedom, and on the other hand whine if the Chinese run amok on them. Hey some Chinese don't want to wait their turn in line, even when they're directly told to. Some previous poster was decrying the fact China has the death penalty -- well, the Chinese have a saying: "Kill a chicken to scare the monkeys". At least some of those executed are corrupt officials.

Anyway, I've never seen anything remotely like the youtube video (where was that taken?) or the experience described above in my three years here. I have also been to the far north to Harbin and far south to Hainan Island (but I don't stay out very late these days -- all kinds stuff could be happening, but I haven't seen it.

But in my first three years in Thailand:

* A Thai guy I worked with was murdered by his gay lover (chopped in the head with an axe)

* A British guy I knew, another gay, was murdered by two boys from the rough trade he brought home

* My American boss committed suicide after he found out his Thai wife had had a long-term affair going on with her childhood sweetheart from her hometown (she still got the business and still owns it today)

* One of the farang managers where I worked was fired for being high on heroin while on the job

And the story went on from there for many years. All I know is my direct experience. Beijing has been nowhere near as crazy as that -- in fact it has been extremely civilized. The place doesn't draw nearly as many crazies, and the gov't doesn't tolerate them.

Edited September 1, 2009 by ferd54

[thaihome]

Ok, you want to exchange expat horror stories, I can play.

*One western wife spectacularly committed suicide when she found out her husband had taken up with a Chinese hooker.

*One expat died of heart attack because the medivac helicopter permit was never approved because we couldn’t pay the “fee” demanded without breaking the FPCA.

*Our western doctor making a tour of local clinics and dentists and due to what he described as “abysmal hygienic” (mostly the reusing of syringes) conditions subsequently banning any employee, expat or Chinese, from going to any local clinic or dentist

*A 30ish Chinese guy working for me died of hepatitis B he got fooling around with local girls.

*Within 3 months of us arriving there many bars, complete with available girls opened within 1 km or our residence. This was in addition to the many barber shops and “sauna” already in the bigger town.

*An expat that was continually picked up by police for falling down drunk in the streets that they soon asked to be removed.

*As mentioned earlier, many, many muggings and snatching. (I believe the video is from Shenzhen)

*Something like 8 divorces in western marriages precipitated by associations with local Chinese bar girls.

Actually, all in all, pretty typical stuff for a project in a third world country.

Since you enjoyed the first video so much, how about some more?

Link

Link

TH

Edited September 1, 2009 by thaihome

[JR Texas]

You are talking about Vietnam and Cambodia, right? Have you ever tried to do any real business in either place?

There is at least one more reason Vietnam will never host big businesses (factories of Toyota, Nissan, Honda...) for large scale manufacturing and export, as Thailand does.

Vietnam does not have deep sea ports, no way to take the goods out of the country. Even if it could (but can't) accommodate for large ships to bring in the components/parts.

Actually Vietnam has several ports, but they are not as large as they want, so they have been building some large ports over the past few years.

source Wrom: XZOWCONEUQZAAFXISHJEXXIMQZUIVOTQNQEMSFDULHPQQWOYIYZUNN

And there already are many automobile companies in Vietnam: "Seventeen automotive producers or assemblers already have operations in Vietnam, including Ford of the United States, and Honda and Toyota both from Japan." "Japanese automaker Nissan said Tuesday it sees tremendous opportunities in Vietnam and will begin local production next year, despite the effects of the financial crisis on the industry elsewhere."

source Wrom: YCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKEDOTWFAOBUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEGAUTFJMVR

[think_too_mut]

You are talking about Vietnam and Cambodia, right? Have you ever tried to do any real business in either place?

There is at least one more reason Vietnam will never host big businesses (factories of Toyota, Nissan, Honda...) for large scale manufacturing and export, as Thailand does.

Vietnam does not have deep sea ports, no way to take the goods out of the country. Even if it could (but can't) accommodate for large ships to bring in the components/parts.

Actually Vietnam has several ports, but they are not as large as they want, so they have been building some large ports over the past few years.

And there already are many automobile companies in Vietnam: "Seventeen automotive producers or assemblers already have operations in Vietnam, including Ford of the United States, and Honda and Toyota both from Japan." "Japanese automaker Nissan said Tuesday it sees tremendous opportunities in Vietnam and will begin local production next year, despite the effects of the financial crisis on the industry elsewhere."

That's different. The backbone of Thai industry are Japanese cars and parts manufacturing plants, for export.

In Vietnam, that's for internal consumption, whatever their market can swallow.

Often in Toyota City in Japan, I have met several Vietnamese engineers who were in training, telling me they get parts from Japan and assemble cars in Vietnam for local market, nothing goes out of Vietnam. The parts arrive in container ships far smaller than those used to get final products (cars) out of Thailand.

As for ports, many on this board have seen Da Nang from the air. Surf beaches. Where there is surf, there is shallow sea for miles from the waterline.

Edited September 1, 2009 by think_too_mut

[thaihome]

According to PWC, Vietnam’s automobile manufacturing is capable of producing about 100,000 vehicles and is forecasted in 2010 to be about 54% utilized. Thailand has a capacity of 1.8 million vehicles with about 85% utilization.

PWC

Your turn, try again.

TH

Edited September 1, 2009 by thaihome

[JR Texas]

You are talking about Vietnam and Cambodia, right? Have you ever tried to do any real business in either place?

There is at least one more reason Vietnam will never host big businesses (factories of Toyota, Nissan, Honda...) for large scale manufacturing and export, as Thailand does.

Vietnam does not have deep sea ports, no way to take the goods out of the country. Even if it could (but can't) accommodate for large ships to bring in the components/parts.

Actually Vietnam has several ports, but they are not as large as they want, so they have been building some large ports over the past few years.

And there already are many automobile companies in Vietnam: "Seventeen automotive producers or assemblers already have operations in Vietnam, including Ford of the United States, and Honda and Toyota both from Japan." "Japanese automaker Nissan said Tuesday it sees tremendous opportunities in Vietnam and will begin local production next year, despite the effects of the financial crisis on the industry elsewhere."

That's different. The backbone of Thai industry are Japanese cars and parts manufacturing plants, for export.

In Vietnam, that's for internal consumption, whatever their market can swallow.

Often in Toyota City in Japan, I have met several Vietnamese engineers who were in training, telling me they get parts from Japan and assemble cars in Vietnam for local market, nothing goes out of Vietnam. The parts arrive in container ships far smaller than those used to get final products (cars) out of Thailand.

As for ports, many on this board have seen Da Nang from the air. Surf beaches. Where there is surf, there is shallow sea for miles from the waterline.

Really, you can't admit that you made a mistake about the ports and presence of large automobile companies in Vietnam.....a country that has seen a much greater GDP annual growth rate than Thailand over the past decade.

And you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to what they are actually doing.

Vietnam has an automobile parts export industry that is, by definition, not for local consumption.

There is nothing wrong with exporting automobile parts; it is good business and hires skilled workers.

The subject is getting boring and off topic.........along with the feeble attempts to make Thailand look safe in comparison to China.

Try getting back on topic.

[ferd54]

Try getting back on topic.

Agreed!

[Mobi]

Try getting back on topic.

Agreed!

He would do well to study my signature

[thaihome]

Really, you can't admit that you made a mistake about the ports and presence of large automobile companies in Vietnam.....a country that has seen a much greater GDP annual growth rate than Thailand over the past decade.

And you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to what they are actually doing.

Vietnam has an automobile parts export industry that is, by definition, not for local consumption.

There is nothing wrong with exporting automobile parts; it is good business and hires skilled workers.

The subject is getting boring and off topic.........along with the feeble attempts to make Thailand look safe in comparison to China.

Try getting back on topic.

Vietnam's first deep sea port opened on 31 May 2009

Vietnam is not exporting fully assembled automobiles at this point, the are doing CDK for the domestic market. If you can show a link otherwise, would appreciate it. They are doing labor intensive part assembly for export and that is growing.

TH

[JR Texas]

Try getting back on topic.

Agreed!

Well.......we tried to get them to get back on topic but they can't admit to making a mistake and apparently don't know how to do a simple Google search on automobile part exports from Vietnam.

Maybe they need to send an email to the big automobile companies to let them know they have made a huge mistake investing in Vietnam .

Now, what is the topic? Oh, yes, what it is like to live in China after Thailand.

I am not sure if enough has been said about the stunning beauty that you can find in China........there are mountains, deserts, forests, oceans, lakes, etc.

Overall, I feel like the people are smarter and just more pleasant to be around (but the people I am most in contact with are intellectuals......so that is a bias).

The odd thing is that most of the Chinese people I have met seem far more aware of the West than Thais.

I suppose that is because they are interested in learning everything about the West, whereas most Thais could not care less.

A downside is the language..........about as difficult as they come to learn......makes Thai seem easy.

But most of my Chinese friends speak English.

Another possible downside is the lack of holidays.........Thailand has so many........China only has a few. This can be a real issue if you work for a living.

The Chinese are workaholics.........the culture is not one where having fun is the number one priority (like it seems to be in Thailand). The Chinese seem far more serious than Thais, but do like to party when the time is right.

There is also a culturally-ingrained (from birth I think) respect for Mao that cannot be violated (similar to a certain person in Thailand).

There is also a deep hatred of the Japanese that the govt. continues to exploit for political reasons (similar to the Thailand vs Cambodia feud).

Just thinking about Beijing makes me hungry for Kung Pao Chicken.......I know a place there that serves the best on the planet. The more I write on this subject, the more hungry I get for Chinese food.

[thaihome]

...

Now, what is the topic? Oh, yes, what it is like to live in China after Thailand.

blah, blah blah...

I did stick to topic and gave my experiences of living in China (outside the guarded zones that you are going on about) and yet you do not respond. You are the one that went on about Vietnam, but when confronted with actual facts, hid behind “let get back on topic”.

Make up your mind, what do you want to talk about? I can go on and bash China some more. It is far easier to do then bash Thailand. There are certainly more facts available about how bad China is, you seem to struggle to find any to back your Thai bashing though.

I am also still waiting for your proof that Thailand is going backwards developmentally.

TH

[Hawkup2000]

thaihome seriously, don't you see that you're making a fool of yourself in this thread?

They come with input what their experience how China compares to Thailand in terms of expat life. Then you turn into a 3-year old and starts crying -"It's not true. It's not true!" And you won't give in. You even drag in statistics and info about deep seaport in Vietnam...

[thaihome]

thaihome seriously, don't you see that you're making a fool of yourself in this thread?

They come with input what their experience how China compares to Thailand in terms of expat life. Then you turn into a 3-year old and starts crying -"It's not true. It's not true!" And you won't give in. You even drag in statistics and info about deep seaport in Vietnam...

Please point out when I said -"It's not true. It's not true!" when it was true.

I have probably given more realistic input of expat life in China then anyone else on this thread. I just have no romantic notations about life in China living a guarded enclave. People do not want hear about it in a thread started as another opportunity to say how bad Thailand is. They just assumed they would be the experts and nobody would dare question them.

TH

[JR Texas]

thaihome seriously, don't you see that you're making a fool of yourself in this thread?

They come with input what their experience how China compares to Thailand in terms of expat life. Then you turn into a 3-year old and starts crying -"It's not true. It's not true!" And you won't give in. You even drag in statistics and info about deep seaport in Vietnam...

Thank you for pointing that out.........I was wondering if any other person was coming to that conclusion.

I've been thinking it, but just did not want to say it.

http://www.business-in-asia.com/ports_in_vietnam.html

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleD...ArticleId=64046

There.....just gave him some links.......maybe we can get the discussion back on track.

[LaoPo]

...

Now, what is the topic? Oh, yes, what it is like to live in China after Thailand.

blah, blah blah...

I did stick to topic and gave my experiences of living in China (outside the guarded zones that you are going on about) and yet you do not respond.

Did you only live in the South of China (Guangdong I presume?) or in the East and North as well ?

It's odd, all the negative experiences you wrote about, I've never ever encountered myself, working and coming to (many cities and parts of) China for more than 30 years and I never lived or stayed in guarded zones.

But, the southern Chinese are seen as more rude and aggressive than Eastern and Northern Chinese and are also looked down upon, but that's vice versa ...the same as people look down upon their own fellow countrymen from another part in their own country in the west.

But, you've made your point more than clear how you feel and think about China

I know we're talking about China versus Thailand, but if one takes into consideration that Guangdong Province* (next to adjacent Hong Kong) alone has more than 100 million people I'm sure there are a few negative things to say about "China".

There isn't even one single country in Western Europe which has so many people as several Provinces in China

Guangdong Province = 177.000 km2 - 100 million people

Thailand = 513.000 km2 - 65 million people

Thailand ranks #21 on the list of most populated countries in the world.

China has 7 Provinces with more people than the 65 million people of Thailand

Concluding: We have to take the comparison between China and Thailand with a grain of salt; make that a few pots of salt

LaoPo

[wilsongbrown]

Typical expat. You're not talking about CHINA, you're talking about BEIJING. Not quite the same is it? Rather like comparing Bangkok with Mukdahan.

Do try to get out into CHINA and report back on your experiences in CHINA. (And people knock Phuket for not being 'in Thailand ...')

Did you actually READ EVERYTHING the OP wrote? He wrote exactly what you said. He compared Beijing to Thailand, not all of China... and he pointed that out. People take a few issues out of context and then bicker over those issues. Anybody with half a brain knows that Pattaya and Phuket are not the real Thailand; nor are Bangkok and Chiang Mai for that matter. Thailand is a mosaic of all of it, and so is China.

So, Thailand's been relegated to 'city' status rather than er, 'country' status?

[Mark Wolfe]

Try getting back on topic.

Agreed!

Or not...

I asked you about Taiwan for a reason; I do everything for a reason, and that was to see if living in Beijing has brainwashed you in a different (worse?) way than than living in Thailand (Bangkok?). So this is spot on topic. You live in a place where the flow of information is queered in ways you don't even now realize. I don't believe that living in Thailand subjects you to the kind of undercover police state, Internet censors, baby police and "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" of the paranoid Chicoms that living in Beijing does.

Your Taiwan perspective is still mostly intact, but I can see serious dents, old ploys that I've seen since I first moved to the Republic of China in 1985 (yikes!), in your "understanding." Thank god you didn't say, "renegade province." :0

I think we pretty much have the freedom to information and political and religious inclinations that we want here in Thailand. I am not sure you could say the same for the majority of China.

[CrossBones]

What are the employment prospects for a western sales person in China? Ok I realise that is a very non-specific question, but what I am getting at is are there job opportunities for westerners there? There is huge scale production in China with export to the west, so how easy might it be to be the western sales person for a company there? Is a university degree required for a work permit and we really "welcome" to work in China (unlike Thailand were we are employed only if absolutely necessary and then made to feel unwelcome and have to jump through hoops and red tape).

How easy might it be to just turn up in China on a holiday visa and start calling companies, sending out CVs etc. Where might be a good place to look for work? Of course I dont speak Chinese!

Thanks

[LaoPo]

What are the employment prospects for a western sales person in China? Ok I realise that is a very non-specific question, but what I am getting at is are there job opportunities for westerners there? There is huge scale production in China with export to the west, so how easy might it be to be the western sales person for a company there? Is a university degree required for a work permit and we really "welcome" to work in China (unlike Thailand were we are employed only if absolutely necessary and then made to feel unwelcome and have to jump through hoops and red tape).

How easy might it be to just turn up in China on a holiday visa and start calling companies, sending out CVs etc. Where might be a good place to look for work? Of course I dont speak Chinese!

Thanks

There are many thousands of factories in China and very few on top speak any English; not only small factories but also mid size factories/companies with more than 100 workers. Thousands of them.

The problem is that the owners (a lot of them) are mostly countryside people, who, in many cases were "launched" into the world of production because they had good local contacts, got easy financing and customers were literally standing in line to buy their products -local buyers from China that is-.

These were/are smart guys but without any education. On top of that, Chinese are used to produce huge and enormous quantities but lack organization and a view into the future. They are in fact spoiled because they never thought of "selling", simply because they didn't sell; they just produced because the clients were buying...

But, foreigners were still able to find those factories and negotiated with them via a hired translators and the factory owners soon found out they could reach a better price with foreigners (stupid foreigners they call them, still!) but lacked proper quality control and other skills, necessary to deal with foreigners.

That's exactly where you could jump in; the trick is to find the right contacts and the right company to hire you. A major problem is that most foreigners are used to good salaries/income but the smart Chinese owners are not very keen to pay a good salary.

You don't need a university degree; a factory, looking for a good salesman might give you a chance but you've got to show good results within a few months, if not shorter! And I'm talking sales abroad, not within China of course.

If you're good in certain products or markets maybe you should study alibaba dot com a bit; the largest B2B portal in Asia, not just China but also Thailand. Contact a few of them and see what happens.

If you don't try you never win.

Good luck!

LaoPo

[ferd54]

... paranoid Chicoms that living in Beijing does.

Your Taiwan perspective is still mostly intact...

Gawd, I haven't heard "Chicoms" since the 1970s. How long has it been since you've been to this oppressive place?

And who's the paranoid one?

Thank you so much for your blessing that my "Taiwan perspective is still mostly intact." First, I have no real Taiwan perspective, and secondly what does "intact" mean?

Oh, that's right: You're the one who gave me the required mission to write a specific number of words on Taiwan.

I guess I got a star from the teacher, but not a gold one (if I interpret his arcane post correctly).

[Mark Wolfe]

It wasn't a "requirement," and before you start looking for work in China, unless you are a cowboy English teacher, you will need to speak the language.

[bkkmei]

I want to know where the best kung pao chicken restaurant is!!

Some things I love about China:

- Friends / relatives who are so generous, enthusiastic, straight forward and loyal

- Vast, varied culture

- Wonderful delicious food

- A can-do attitude to any problems

- As previously mentioned: stunning scenery, great places to travel

What I disliked:

- Often felt that (despite a can-do attitude) daily life was a bit of a struggle: superficial contacts can be aggressive, service can be terrible, people very loud, many people tried to cheat you. BUT this was a while ago, I haven't visited Beijing in a few years so maybe things have changed - would love to know.

[ferd54]

Often felt that (despite a can-do attitude) daily life was a bit of a struggle: superficial contacts can be aggressive, service can be terrible, people very loud

Still true. The loud, aggressive behavior and at-times shockingly poor service are probably the two worst aspects of living here. I just keep reminding myself that the Chinese are mostly nice to me and this is "normal" behavior for them.

... many people tried to cheat you.

Quite the opposite in my experience. When I first got here I left a tip (not knowing it is not the custom) and the waitress chased me down the winter street to give it back. She thought I forgot it. As well, I counted my change assiduously for the first year or so and found it always correct. In some ways, the northern Chinese seem naive about money, which is refreshing. The girl I've been seeing from Harbin is very much that way. Could be that I've just been lucky so far. The only ones who've really tried to get over on me were an American and his Hong Kong cohorts.

[thaihome]

Did you only live in the South of China (Guangdong I presume?) or in the East and North as well ?

It's odd, all the negative experiences you wrote about, I've never ever encountered myself, working and coming to (many cities and parts of) China for more than 30 years and I never lived or stayed in guarded zones.

But, the southern Chinese are seen as more rude and aggressive than Eastern and Northern Chinese and are also looked down upon, but that's vice versa ...the same as people look down upon their own fellow countrymen from another part in their own country in the west.

But, you've made your point more than clear how you feel and think about China

....LaoPo

We lived in Beijing the first 6 months of the 2 years we were in China. We enjoyed living in Beijing immensely, but not because it was better then Thailand, but because it was new place. I can’t recall ever even trying to make a comparison. I guess that comes from living in many different cities and countries in Asia, you just learn to accept what each place as to offer.

As I said, Beijing was nice. My wife fell in with a large group of Thai expats, made up of the wives of diplomats, telecom executives and engineers, and a couple of medical students and had a great time. Some she keeps up with a couple of them even today as they also have moved to other places around the world. I worked.

When we moved south, it just struck me as a very “wild west” sort of place. The town we lived in was pretty small by Chinese standards, I think it was only about 100,000 people, with a larger town of the usual million or so up the road about 5 km. We were the first westerners most locals had ever seen. You may be right about southerners being more rude and aggressive, but I cannot really say. I do know that the Chinese that moved down with us from Beijing and Shanghai had a very rough time, much worse then the westerners.

What initially struck us was the extremely poor quality of the ingredients of the food in the restaurants. Coming from Beijing we had just assumed that readily available good food was the norm. It was quite a shock, and until other restaurants opened to cater to the influx of the westerners and the “city” Chinese, it was a real problem. The complex we stayed at (western company, run by Chinese) took full advantage of that and priced their half way decent food extremely high. After about 8 months or so, it was easy to get a good meal, both western and Chinese, as many people came in from Shenzhen and opened restaurants.

You have misinterpreted my posts about China, coming to the mistaken conclusion that I have made it clear how I feel and what I think of China. Not once in my posts did I ever express any dislike of China. All I did was say what my observations and experiences were living in China after living in Thailand (the subject of the thread). Unlike so many here on this forum that seem to take such delight in running down Thailand and expressing their dislike for Thai people, I did not do that. I did not generalize about Chinese people, nor did I make inaccurate statements as is so often done here about Thais and Thailand.

The reaction by the “Chinese Defenders” was extremely interesting, and certainly gave some insight into how certain people who generally post only negatives about Thailand and how they can’t take it when the same thing is done to a place they profuse to like so much.

Anyway, I have had a lot fun, but it’s over now. See everyone in the next Thailand bashing thread.

TH

[thaihome]

...Another possible downside is the lack of holidays.........Thailand has so many........China only has a few. This can be a real issue if you work for a living.

...

This statement makes me think you don't know much about business in China. China as about the same number of holdiays, they just do it different as they are "concentrated” into 3 months: Jan, May and Oct instead of being spread out over the year.

TH

Key holidays (including both public holidays and “off” days)

New Year – Jan 1-3

Chinese New Year – Jan 25-31

Qingming Holiday – Apr 4-6

Labor’s Day – May 1-3

Duanwu Holiday – May 28-30

National Day – Oct 1-8

Note that though the Chinese New Year is listed as week, in reality many of the migrant workers take a full 2 weeks.

[JR Texas]

...Another possible downside is the lack of holidays.........Thailand has so many........China only has a few. This can be a real issue if you work for a living.

...

This statement makes me think you don't know much about business in China. China as about the same number of holdiays, they just do it different as they are "concentrated” into 3 months: Jan, May and Oct instead of being spread out over the year.

TH

Key holidays (including both public holidays and “off” days)

New Year – Jan 1-3

Chinese New Year – Jan 25-31

Qingming Holiday – Apr 4-6

Labor’s Day – May 1-3

Duanwu Holiday – May 28-30

National Day – Oct 1-8

Note that though the Chinese New Year is listed as week, in reality many of the migrant workers take a full 2 weeks.

You are unbelievable............OK, right, I know nothing about China or Asia or anything else. Make you feel better? Now, have a cookie and some milk and go to bed.

[cdnvic]

JR and Thaihome if you two can't discuss without insulting each other I'm gonna send you both off for a bit.

Chill.