More Phuket Drownings 'inevitable'

[moskito]

out of PHUKET GAZETTE Tuesday sep 1st 2009 ....wonder what YOU have to say about this constantly whining of government offices........

KARON, PHUKET: In the wake of the drowning of a Russian man at Karon Beach in Phuket, a local leader has warned that “more will die in the days to come.”

Karon village chief Winai Chitchiew said more drownings were inevitable because beach guards were under-equipped, underpaid and couldn’t guarantee tourists’ safety.

At least 10 people have drowned off Karon Beach so far in this year’s monsoon season, he said.

This morning, Russian tourist Alexander Lukin’s decomposing body washed up on the popular beach on the west coast of Phuket. The 32-year-old Russian disappeared in the surf on Sunday, swallowed up by two-meter-high waves before friends and beach guards could reach him.

In pouring rain, officials searched for Mr Lukin in a borrowed speed boat, but their efforts were in vain.

Beach guards had warned Mr Lukin and his friends not to swim in the sea, but they were ignored, Mr Winai said.

As is the case throughout the monsoon season, red flags warning people not to swim were on display.

Karon Beach was recently named the world’s fourth best for families by the Lonely Planet guide.

But for more on the safety of the beach, see this week’s Phuket Gazette, on newsstands around the island from Saturday. – Khunakorn Terdkiatkhachorn

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.as...8&display=1

I just hate this constantly whining of the offices in duty. Are there not enough tourists here in Thailand, dont they bring enough money to the country for buying at least some equipment to guarantee for their safety while in holidays? Are boats or at least some jetskies for the beachguards, things the government which is living not too bad of all the money washed in every single year, cant afford to buy?

What is that? another begging for some money out of the Farangs pockets to buy some SAFETY equipment for them?

[robblok]

It goes something like this:

1 mil bath budget

in the end only 10.000 baht will be spend the rest is stolen by the officials. I have heard about this from my gf a lot.

She tells me how it goes the goverment wants some people from a district to go travel and says 1 mil baht.. Then gives it to a lower official who takes 100.000 bath gives 900 k to a lower one who steals to and so on and so on till nothing is left.

Welcome to Thailand.

[mauGR1]

I don't want to be disrespectful to the victims,but is there someone in 2009 who doesn't know that swimming in the ocean with high waves is dangerous?

Do we need a beach guard to tell us?

And God forbid having beach guards equipped with jet-skies...Just my humble opinion.

PS many years ago i was nearly drowned in S.Lanka,and i had nobody to blame except myself

[dave111223]

Where there's a moron there's a way for them to kill themselves...that's evolution i guess, doesn't matter how many jetskis you have if someone decides they are going for a dip in the middle of a storm....

[Briggsy]

A lot of it comes down to expectations.

These are deeply engrained into people by their day-to-day experiences in their home countries. They are so deeply engrained that tourists need to be explicitly told to "unlearn" this expectation. Here are some expectations that tourists unconsciously bring with them.

1. This is a famous seaside tourist resort so it must be safe to swim in the sea.

2. With all these towering modern hotels and cars etc. this looks like a developed European country so it must have developed and reliable emergency services.

3. The lifeguards are trained and willing to go to lengths to save lives.

4. The lifeguards are on duty and so have not been drinking.

5. The lifeguards would tell you to get out of the water if it were not safe.

6. The lifeguards know how to correctly carry out artificial resuscitation and CPR and are prepared to do it.

7. If there had been numerous drownings, there would be massive warning signs.

8. As a very popular seaside resort, if it were dangerous, there would be massive warning signs.

9. It looks like a developed nation, so the authorities are doing everything they can, to make the tourists safe.

10. The police are there to protect and to serve.

I believe most Western "newbie" tourists would have all or most of these expectations. Bearing in mind the huge number of tourists visiting Phuket, the onus lies on the local authorities and travel agents to change the 'tropical paradise' image to something more accurate. They won't.

[TaoNow]

Briggsy: it appears you are from Bangkok and haven't visited the Phuket beaches lately. Warning signs (explaining the swimming hazard) are posted every 50 meters with flagrant red flags swirling in the wind. As has been debated on the Phuket community forum, you cannot save everyone from themselves. At some point, people need to exercise their own judgment about what risks to take.

The drownings seem to be more the result of people who are not physically fit, have been drinking alcohol, are prone to panic when in water over the heads, and/or are not strong swimmers. People who respect the ocean and know how to manage the breakers and the currents should be allowed to swim at their own risk -- false expectations notwithstanding.

[slapout]

We hear excuses, see blame placed on something (non person), request for more monies, etc, for all of the woes of Thailand. If conditions are unsafe (red warning flags placed) shut down any entry into the water. A loud speaker system with message recorded in various languages, danger flags/marker, with existing personal/lifeguards/whomever to enforce it. What would it take to have moored rafts out in the water with lifeguards, rescue vehicles available for lifeguards on the beach? This would require some planning, training and coordination but Amazing Thailand should be able to handle this.

[moskito]

A lot of it comes down to expectations.

These are deeply engrained into people by their day-to-day experiences in their home countries. They are so deeply engrained that tourists need to be explicitly told to "unlearn" this expectation. Here are some expectations that tourists unconsciously bring with them.

1. This is a famous seaside tourist resort so it must be safe to swim in the sea.

2. With all these towering modern hotels and cars etc. this looks like a developed European country so it must have developed and reliable emergency services.

3. The lifeguards are trained and willing to go to lengths to save lives.

4. The lifeguards are on duty and so have not been drinking.

5. The lifeguards would tell you to get out of the water if it were not safe.

6. The lifeguards know how to correctly carry out artificial resuscitation and CPR and are prepared to do it.

7. If there had been numerous drownings, there would be massive warning signs.

8. As a very popular seaside resort, if it were dangerous, there would be massive warning signs.

9. It looks like a developed nation, so the authorities are doing everything they can, to make the tourists safe.

10. The police are there to protect and to serve.

I believe most Western "newbie" tourists would have all or most of these expectations. Bearing in mind the huge number of tourists visiting Phuket, the onus lies on the local authorities and travel agents to change the 'tropical paradise' image to something more accurate. They won't.

TRUE Briggsy, thats definately what tourists think if they book a holiday in Thailand. And @ TaoNow, I do not agree that everybody have to know about the sea conditions like we do! there are a lot of firsttimers or people on honeymoon here. Show me one of this glamour travelling catalogues where they print BEACHES IN PHUKET in rainseason are <deleted>....G DANGEROUS. I safed two ppl in the past 8 years here from drowning, even Thais let their children play in the sea and even SHALLOW waters are really dangerous.

But the question was. SHOULD THE FARANGS TAKE CARE FOR BUYING SAFETY EQUIPMENT or is it the Duty of the Authorities which make money on tourism?

@ mauGR1 .....hehe same experience Sri Lanka Hikkaduwa, takes me an hour to come back on shore alive.....never go against the current, stay calm until it is finished and make your way out to the sides.

[robblok]

I read they were promoting Phuket in the rainy season, without even stating that its dangerous to swim. So in a way all those greedy thai and farang who live of tourists are responsible.

I mean there were posts about this and how it would endanger people (cant find that one now). It seems that the people opposed to it were right

[aussiejosh]

If you come on Holiday to a beach resort which is world renowned of course you are going to think you can swim. As he was Russian, lets assume they really did tell him not to swim in the water. Did they tell him in Russian? Or did some non uniformed, random Thai or group of Thai's confront them to inform them in their own language at lengths the dangers of the sea during rainy season despite the numerous impressions otherwise and the given illusion of westernized safety through economic power which is centered around these tourist hot spots?

So many factors could have been in play, as someone who has grown up by the sea and had more than a few close calls myself, I know how a seemingly calm and beautiful beach may not look dangerous to someone unexperienced. Rip tides are a dangerous dangerous force on the beach, and can even take an advanced swimmer out of his depths quickly and into a situation he would have to deal with using his own experience and knowledge, otherwise the natural reaction is more likely to kill you. Swimming against the current. Once your brought out by the tide as well you have to deal with swells along the way, for a weak swimmer this often proves to be to much as they usually panic and use all their energy quickly and wastefully.

Feel bad for him, but really if you are going to lure people with these expectations and just really want to get them there and are happy once they are there (and of course hope the majority have a good time to report) then your not going to get anyone who cares enough to do something about it.

Sad but true as well is the corruption for well intended laws and projects, pity the money couldn't go where it was needed.

[PoorSucker]

I read they were promoting Phuket in the rainy season, without even stating that its dangerous to swim. So in a way all those greedy thai and farang who live of tourists are responsible.

I mean there were posts about this and how it would endanger people (cant find that one now). It seems that the people opposed to it were right

http://www.summerinphuket.com/

[moe666]

Some guy goes swimming in very rough seas with red flag warnings and it is the fault of the Thais, sheez.

[mauGR1]

But the question was. SHOULD THE FARANGS TAKE CARE FOR BUYING SAFETY EQUIPMENT or is it the Duty of the Authorities which make money on tourism?

@ mauGR1 .....hehe same experience Sri Lanka Hikkaduwa, takes me an hour to come back on shore alive.....never go against the current, stay calm until it is finished and make your way out to the sides.

Yes,moskito,Hikkaduwa exactly,but i was lucky,it took me only about 30 minutes,the worst time of my life so far...

Here in Koh Chang we have our fatalities too..The sea may look calm enough to have a swim far from the shore,but there are some strong "undercurrents" which can be very hard to escape even for a good swimmer...Like you said,stay calm is a must,if you panic you are likely to get cramps,if so,you're done..

[moskito]

Some guy goes swimming in very rough seas with red flag warnings and it is the fault of the Thais, sheez.

I think you dont get it! Nobody is blaming --THE THAIS!!!-- I am blamig the tourism industrie which doesnt inform tourists properly and SOME THAIS which are not able to save people in time, nor have the equipment or experienced personal to do it.......and evidently not the money for buying it. So where is the money or where does it go, all the outcome from taxes paid by the tourism industrie?

It is not easy to belive that some 160cm tall guards with a weight of 40kg can safe a freaked out farang which is two heads bigger and a lot heavier as them.

Ever met a guy which thinks he drowns every sec and try using you as a buoy? The beachguards equipment here is often not more than an old car tube, and I cant get rid of the feeling thats more for themselfes as for the victim.

btw I am (was) a good swimmer once and my own experience was happend in a split second in breasthigh water. Its s not in particular the russian guy I am typing here for. Its the every day story in the Phuket Gazette of drowning people.

[dougieboy]

I don't want to be disrespectful to the victims,but is there someone in 2009 who doesn't know that swimming in the ocean with high waves is dangerous?

Do we need a beach guard to tell us?

And God forbid having beach guards equipped with jet-skies...Just my humble opinion.

PS many years ago i was nearly drowned in S.Lanka,and i had nobody to blame except myself

ere ere! someone who believes that we should take responsibility for ourselves and our own actions, thank you so much, I thought I was the only one left

[LivinginKata]

The last 4 posts started going way off track and have been removed.

Let's keep to this serious topic under discussion and stop the bickering.

Thank you.

[LeungKen]

I thought the following should be posted just as a reminder - it's one of many such like recommendations put out by most life saving societies :-

Lifeguards recommend the following safety tips:

• Learn to swim
  
• Swim near a lifeguard
  
• Never Swim Alone
  
• Don't Dive Into Unknown Water or Into Shallow Breaking Waves
  
• Ask a Lifeguard About Beach and Surf Conditions Before Swimming
  
• If You Are Unable to Swim Out of a Strong Current, Signal for Help
  
• Rely on Your Swimming Ability Rather Than a Flotation Device
  
• Look For, Read and Obey All Beach Safety Signs and Symbols
  
• Supervise children closely, even when lifeguards are present
  
• If caught in a rip current, swim sideways until free, don't swim against the current's pull
  
• Alcohol and swimming don't mix
  
• Protect your head, neck, and spine -- don't dive into unfamiliar waters -- feet first, first time
  
• If you are in trouble, call or wave for help
  
• Follow regulations and lifeguard directions
  
• Swim parallel to shore if you wish to swim long distances
  
• Scuba dive only if trained and certified -- and within the limits of your training
  
• No glass containers at the beach -- broken glass and bare feet don't mix
  
• No beach fires except in designated areas -- fire residue and superheated sand can severely burn bare feet -- use a barbeque that is elevated off the sand
  
• Report hazardous conditions to lifeguards or other beach management personnel
  
• Stay clear of coastal bluffs, they can collapse and cause injury
  
• Never turn your back to the ocean -- you may be swept off coastal bluffs or tide pool areas and into the water by waves that can come without warning
  
• If In Doubt, Just Stay Out!
  

[HOPALONG]

I read they were promoting Phuket in the rainy season, without even stating that its dangerous to swim. So in a way all those greedy thai and farang who live of tourists are responsible.

I mean there were posts about this and how it would endanger people (cant find that one now). It seems that the people opposed to it were right

Dead right..3 or 4 months ago some clown [pushing an upmarket development..purple indigo or whatever]

YEH come to Phuket...its SUMMER time, fools only thinking about their greedy obscene bottomline..not the false sense of security that SUMMER gives.

ITS THE TROPICS>>>ITS THE LOW SEASON!!!!THE OCEAN IS DANGEROUS!! FACT!!

The guy must be red faced now...he was also spouting that "it only rains a little bit"..A little bit every hour for the last near 3 months...lol

[chuppachops]

In karon today i saw the medics taking a guy who looked about 20 yr old off the beach on a stretcher he looked dead to me and his girlfriend was crying it was so sad.. anyone know if he died or not? Its getting ridiculous...

[Atmos]

In karon today i saw the medics taking a guy who looked about 20 yr old off the beach on a stretcher he looked dead to me and his girlfriend was crying it was so sad.. anyone know if he died or not? Its getting ridiculous...

nothing on the usual websites; no-one drowned last weekend as far as I know, there has been about one a week on average since June so statistically this is an improvement.

Red flags still up? (serious question, in Chalong haven't been over the hill for 10 days, swim at Nai Harn now)

[endure]

out of PHUKET GAZETTE Tuesday sep 1st 2009 ....wonder what YOU have to say about this constantly whining of government offices........

KARON, PHUKET: In the wake of the drowning of a Russian man at Karon Beach in Phuket, a local leader has warned that “more will die in the days to come.”

Karon village chief Winai Chitchiew said more drownings were inevitable because beach guards were under-equipped, underpaid and couldn’t guarantee tourists’ safety.

At least 10 people have drowned off Karon Beach so far in this year’s monsoon season, he said.

This morning, Russian tourist Alexander Lukin’s decomposing body washed up on the popular beach on the west coast of Phuket. The 32-year-old Russian disappeared in the surf on Sunday, swallowed up by two-meter-high waves before friends and beach guards could reach him.

In pouring rain, officials searched for Mr Lukin in a borrowed speed boat, but their efforts were in vain.

Beach guards had warned Mr Lukin and his friends not to swim in the sea, but they were ignored, Mr Winai said.

It appears that it was Mr Lukin's fault.

[mikejphuket]

I thought the following should be posted just as a reminder - it's one of many such like recommendations put out by most life saving societies :-

Lifeguards recommend the following safety tips:

• Learn to swim
  
• Swim near a lifeguard
  
• Never Swim Alone
  
• Don't Dive Into Unknown Water or Into Shallow Breaking Waves
  
• Ask a Lifeguard About Beach and Surf Conditions Before Swimming
  
• If You Are Unable to Swim Out of a Strong Current, Signal for Help
  
• Rely on Your Swimming Ability Rather Than a Flotation Device
  
• Look For, Read and Obey All Beach Safety Signs and Symbols
  
• Supervise children closely, even when lifeguards are present
  
• If caught in a rip current, swim sideways until free, don't swim against the current's pull
  
• Alcohol and swimming don't mix
  
• Protect your head, neck, and spine -- don't dive into unfamiliar waters -- feet first, first time
  
• If you are in trouble, call or wave for help
  
• Follow regulations and lifeguard directions
  
• Swim parallel to shore if you wish to swim long distances
  
• Scuba dive only if trained and certified -- and within the limits of your training
  
• No glass containers at the beach -- broken glass and bare feet don't mix
  
• No beach fires except in designated areas -- fire residue and superheated sand can severely burn bare feet -- use a barbeque that is elevated off the sand
  
• Report hazardous conditions to lifeguards or other beach management personnel
  
• Stay clear of coastal bluffs, they can collapse and cause injury
  
• Never turn your back to the ocean -- you may be swept off coastal bluffs or tide pool areas and into the water by waves that can come without warning
  
• If In Doubt, Just Stay Out!
  

Holy Sh&%T !!

Thailand is NOT for people who want to live their lives by rules. Death is simply the next step along the path.

[TaoNow]

In my experience, based on weekly visits to certain beaches (Kata, Kata Noi, and Patong) during the past 12 months, the ocean current conditions change from week to week and are different on different beaches; regardless of the weather. To ban swimming when the red flags are out (as some suggest on this thread) would essentially meaning banning entering the water at all western Phuket beaches during May to October. That would be ridiculous since most days it is safe to swim at some beaches, Kata Noi for example. But any reasonable person will check the conditions first before venturing to deeper water. All of us take calculated risks every day of our life: when we ride a motorcycle, smoke a cigarette, have a 3rd beer, or cross a busy street.

Knowing that some will enter the water when they shouldn't and drown, no matter how hard you try to prevent them, why not warn people by listing drownings or near drowings by beach, for example, by posting a weekly cumulative tally in the Phuket Gazette or by printing up some flyer that is distributed to all guests (in multiple languages) and up-dated weekly or monthly? Then let people decide for themselves.

[Valentine]

Why would anyone believe summer makes anywhere in the world secure? Tourists die from drownings, road accidents etc everywhere in the world at all times of the year. If you subscribe to True Visions take a look at 'Bondi Lifeguard' which shows summer at the most popular beach in Sydney. Some days there are tens of thousands of people there, many rescues are preformed & very occasionally someone drowns despite some of the most well trained, well equipped (jet skis are an integral part of their kit), beach lifeguards in the world. People rescued include experienced surfers, tourists & others from all over Sydney.

It is easy to take part in the blame game (there have been more than one low season promotion in the past) but how about something constructive. Most likely the Phuket lifeguard system was reasonably well funded in the beginning but as in many things the big 'C' takes its toll & often initial funding is not backed up. How well trained are our lifeguards & can something be done to improve their training on a regular basis along with supply of good rescue equipment. The Phuket Lifesaving Association is in its infancy but hopefully it will start producing tangible results in the form of more trained personnel. Many beaches around the world are manned by volunteer lifeguards during the weekends which would also be helpful here.

Lack of surf knowledge, ignoring warning signs, thinking that you are a strong enough swimmer to cope with the conditions, are the main things which contribute to drownings. I fall into the 3rd category & know full well the feelings of panic which can swiftly overcome when dragged along by a strong rip &/or pounded by heavy waves. A couple of years ago a well known expat died at Nai Harn. He used to swim there most days, was extremely fit & a strong swimmer.

[crusty]

I don't want to be disrespectful to the victims,but is there someone in 2009 who doesn't know that swimming in the ocean with high waves is dangerous?

Do we need a beach guard to tell us?

And God forbid having beach guards equipped with jet-skies...Just my humble opinion.

PS many years ago i was nearly drowned in S.Lanka,and i had nobody to blame except myself

Here on Samui the drowning season is fast approaching. The watch towers remain unmanned and warning signs deteriorated. Life rings are useless, try swimming in a break with one hand on the ring and the other for swimming and then the ring breaks in half ! Here on Chaweng we import and sell on, lifesaving "tubes" from The Australian Surf Lifesaving Foundation in Brisbane and these tubes are mandatory for every public beach in Australia. They are made of a yellow foam, dimensions 90 cm. x 15 cm. x 6cm with two s.s. rings so it can be clipped around the waist of most people and is attached to a webbing tow strap worn over the shoulder. This leaves both arms free for swimming. It can be modified so that is attached to a long rescue line on a reel. The first day we deployed ours, we rescued a tourist and her two children.

Jetskis save dozens of people here and we have learnt to tolerate them for this fact. The jetskis accepted a proposal from the hotels that they would have one jetski for rescue and every hotel would have the emergency telephone number. This would have cost the hotels Baht 500 per month, but sadly only 20% agreed.

[steelepulse]

A friend of mine was at Kata yesterday surfing and said he pulled 6 people out of the rip there, and the surf wasn't even very big, just a swift moving channel going out to sea that was pulling people out.

[LivinLOS]

nothing on the usual websites; no-one drowned last weekend as far as I know, there has been about one a week on average since June so statistically this is an improvement.

Red flags still up? (serious question, in Chalong haven't been over the hill for 10 days, swim at Nai Harn now)

Patong beach no flags.. Neither safe or unsafe warnings.

Of course should someone drown they would be right out there and immediate claims that "lifeguards had warned the person not to swim"

[phuketrex]

Patong last week...no flags up at all>>>

[Valentine]

The signs are fairly sensible, the lack of follow up is not i.e. mot posting the requisite flags as can be seen from the last photo.