Cheating/plagiarism In University

[Scott]

Copying and plagiarism are endemic in a lot of countries. I think it's cultural and has a lot to do with the idea of 'we are better than others.' Much of Asia was built on copying the West and then using low-cost labor to sell back our products. If you look at the periodic crackdowns on illegally copied materials, it tells a big story.

I am not at a University, but we do start with the students in grade school and handle cheating/copying in a strict manner. My point with the Thai Admin and the students is that it's not the end of the world, but we want them to learn to be honest. Some students (and parents) and devastated by the accusation of cheating. I only fail them when we have evidence of the cheating that is verifiable.

Over the years it has improved and most students--like most similarly aged kids--probably stop cheating because it is too much a hassle. In the prathom and Mathyom level that's my goal--teach them not to do it.

[Xangsamhua]

Copying and plagiarism are endemic in a lot of countries. I think it's cultural and has a lot to do with the idea of 'we are better than others.' Much of Asia was built on copying the West and then using low-cost labor to sell back our products. If you look at the periodic crackdowns on illegally copied materials, it tells a big story.

I am not at a University, but we do start with the students in grade school and handle cheating/copying in a strict manner. My point with the Thai Admin and the students is that it's not the end of the world, but we want them to learn to be honest. Some students (and parents) and devastated by the accusation of cheating. I only fail them when we have evidence of the cheating that is verifiable.

Over the years it has improved and most students--like most similarly aged kids--probably stop cheating because it is too much a hassle. In the prathom and Mathyom level that's my goal--teach them not to do it.

Good for you, Scott. Keep up the good work.

[elkangorito]

I teach in a technical college...one of the most highly regarded in Thailand (as of this year, I think it is the most highly regarded).

Being at this college for almost 3 years, I now have considerable "sway" with regard to examination technique & rules (English Department only).

As of this year & all ensuing years, I no longer conduct "re-testing" of failed students. I did this previously at the wish of my Thai colleagues but I no longer do it...with full endorsement from Thai admin (they have changed...rare in Thailand). Mind you, I have no idea what they (the Thai staff) do with my scores after I issue them.

Also, if I conduct a written examination (rarely, as most of my examinations are oral), any evidence of copying relates to an incorrect answer for the particular question. E.G. If I mark 2 or 3 papers & the answers to these questions seem "very" similar, I mark ALL of the answers incorrect on all papers involved, since I can't tell who copied from whom.

About 3 months ago, I lived next to a group of Thai university students. One of these students, whose English was very good, would quite often ask me to "review" his work. He also asked me to review his thesis (Mechanical Engineering).

It just so happens that his thesis was about Fuel Cells, with which I have some familiarity since I'm an electrical person.

This student is pretty smart & generally knows what he is talking about. However, he plagiarised most of the information in his thesis.

I didn't like this, so I asked him to spend some time with me.

He & I spent about a week (approx. 40 hours) going over his thesis. This included some engineering instruction (on my behalf) so that he could actually understand what he was saying in his thesis.

The result was that I asked him to re-write his thesis, using excerpts from certain authors, ensuring that he made the reader aware of the excerpts & how these were included into his thesis. I also asked to add a bibliography to his thesis for reference. After he did this, I reviewed his thesis & made minor corrections.

He bitched & moaned about this at first but later thanked me, as he got good marks.

My conclusion.

1] Zero tolerance for plagiarism is necessary. Take a "moral" (I hate that word) stance if necessary.

2] Try to get "onside" with admin so that "policy" can include a zero tolerance to plagiarism.

3] Almost every human on the planet respects "fairness". Being "fair" can be difficult at times but if students respect you, it will never be a problem. In this case, gain the respect of your students. They will surely follow examples set by you.

4] If in the correct situation, try to help the student to understand the subject better. Plagiarism is not only a symptom of laziness...it's also a symptom of "I don't know what I'm talking about".

[tombkk]

I taught at two the top two secondary schools in a remote province. Rampant plagiarism was common even among nicely dressed Thai ajarns doing master's theses.

I know of university ajarns who copy homework questions from the internet. Students find the questions along with the answers. Go figure.

[phetaroi]

I know of university ajarns who copy homework questions from the internet. Students find the questions along with the answers. Go figure.

Like all people, teachers can be hypocritical and adopt a "well this is what's important to me" stance, without really thinking things through. Yes, many teachers (including me) find cheating and plagiarizing highly offensive. Yet, I knew many teachers who would lift questions or even whole tests off the internet or from workbooks which were copyrighted and they were infringing on those copyrights. I had many teachers who would insist on trying to show copyrighted films at events, knowing it was illegal but saying, "But we won't get caught."

If academic and intellectual honesty is a valuable principle (and it is), then it should be upheld all the way around, not just selectively.

[LawnGnome]

Well maybe it changes from place to place.

My university is amongst 'the top three' and I can guarantee you the university has an absolute zero tolerance policy towards plagiarism.

My university installed software to search for anything which have been 'stolen' several yars ago and just recently it was all changed to new state of the art software, and all lecturers can request instant help to learn how to use it.

My students know that they will be instantly suspended by me if caught (and I will refuse to allow them back into any class that I teach and the university supports this appraoch), and know that the university administration will then get involved and will also be totally serious about the matter.

The Thai faculty also have the same approach and they do not respond with 'mai pen rai' or 'don't do it again'.

Students know there are no excuses whatever, and they know that 'family name' cannot be used to gloss over the situation. In fact using 'family name' rarely happens at my university.

As well as being local policy, my university has numerous active exchange programs with highly respected universities across the globe. The US, Eoropen, UK, Australian, Canadian, Singaporean, Hong Kong, China mainland universities concerned would not enter into exchange agreements if they knew our universiy was not serious about this subject.

Same tough stance on attempting to 'sign in' at lectures for friends. Get caught and you are instantly suspended for the remainder of the semester and the full next semester. No excuses excepted at all.

The student union also supports a very tough stance on these matters.

Same here at my "top three" university.

[jasreeve17]

Toptuan and Elkangorito offer good advice.

The top three unis are Chula, Thammasart and Mahidol - these are smart students who know that cheating = F.

I've never had a situation (in several years) where a Chula student has even tried to cheat. Before any test / assignment I let them know they'll score zero if they cheat, 2nd time = F and don't bother enrolling in any of my classes in the future...

At Silpakorn I do the same, and the Thai teachers are tougher than me!

Attendance is, as per Toptuan suggests, a good time to get to know their names. I take my laptop into each class and mark off the register which I instantly mark on an excel spreadsheet with their grading. A couple of times I've given out an attendance sheet; one of those times the numbers didn't add up. I found out who had marked for their friend then marked them as absent...

As for the private Unis (which will never be top 3), the student's cash empowers them...

[Rhys]

Orchid Lady,

Same problem... With attendance issues.... Rx... I annnounce when turning in homework or test... to receive credit you must be in class when I return the papers....that is one incentive... otherwise... it is a ZERO.... works about 70%.....the sign in and hands up ... are problematic..

It's meant to be a university, not a high school. It is the students responsibility to attend.

I do agree, yet, TIT... for example, a student shows up to take the final exam but has never attended class? Well... part of the school's mission.. regardless of those in the K--NO--W. Is for the student to function effectively into a working system.... DUDE you don't follow the rules, you're out of the pool.

Would be nice if the small percentage of seat takers would give up their space for someone who wants to learn...

YES.. treat them with respect yes.. however, they do not respect themselves... or if they are just too cool to learn....regardless of how creative your lesson plan maybe.. .Then... as we often hear.. Do you best... Somehow that does not make it..

Edited September 9, 2009 by Rhys

[madjbs]

If they can pass without going to class then good for them, they already know what they need to know.

However, that is very unlikely. They miss class, they miss knowledge and they get a bad grade is far more likely. It's a self punishing cycle!

[Scott]

Class attendance is slightly off-topic, but it is an important subject. When I was in University, we had a 'no mandatory attendance' policy. There were exceptions, which were written out in the policy, such as the laboratory part of lab sciences--you could miss the lectures, but lab was mandatory. I believe Physical Education was as well.

The one thing it did do, was help to develop a sense of priorities and responsibility. If you were reasonably confident you could read and understand the material and pass the course, it freed students up to spend more quality time on their major field. Of course, with many this didn't work, but it was a learning experience. We did have one professor who like to give drop tests--that screwed things up for a number of students.

Part of the problem with education in Thailand is students aren't taught to thing (or plan), but are taught to remember.

[toptuan]

I taught at two the top two secondary schools in a remote province. Rampant plagiarism was common even among nicely dressed Thai ajarns doing master's theses.

I know of university ajarns who copy homework questions from the internet. Students find the questions along with the answers. Go figure.

When I use material from a book or the internet, I rarely miss citing the source, especially when used in a student handout or student manual. For longer copied pieces, I'll even write for permission, and include "used by permission" boldly on materials meant for student consumption. Of course, it's tough to do this if you wait until the night before (or morning of?) to prepare a lesson.

Yes, it's a hassle, but it sends a silent but definite message to the students, and puts me in a real position of strength when dealing with a student about plagiarism problems.

Modeling is more important than preaching.

[jstrike]

Does anyone have experience with this at the university level in Thailand? The students were given an assignment to write about a topic they knew well. They would then present this to the class. These are second year ESL students at one of the top three universities in Thailand (located in Bangkok). As I was reading the paper, I realized it sounded like a commercial advertisement. Checking on the Internet, the student copied word for word from a financial services company's investment guide. Being new to teaching in Thailand, what kind of support from the university can I expect in dealing with this obvious plagiarism? Or do they even care over here? In the US, the student would be put on academic suspension at a minimum and receive an automatic F in the course.

you can atleast give them an F and talk to the dean about this. It's up to them to decide if they are going to procede with a suspension.

[KhaoNiaw]

As for the private Unis (which will never be top 3), the student's cash empowers them...

I'm in a decent private university and cheating is not tolerated.

[elkangorito]

Class attendance is slightly off-topic, but it is an important subject.

Actually Scott, it's not off topic...it relates very well with plagiarism.

In many countries, students will ask their friends to "attend" for them as there is no role call. Sometimes, the "friends" are just as lazy (or as busy) as the non attenders. Consequently, plagiarism is often the "gap filler" in this equation.

When I attended Engineering College in Australia, there was a role call. This happened because the course had a 75% minimum attendance rate. If one did not satisfy this rate, one would be required to do the entire course again. This may be related to an education "Standard" somewhere (not a curriculum).

In Thailand, where young adults (16+) are treated like children (yes, they are treated like children at my college), they have no hope of ever developing any sense of self motivation or ability to plan.

Personally, I don't give two hoots about role call at my college. I tell my students, "Your future is in your hands. If you don't attend class, you may fail an examination." Of course, this idea hasn't quite reached the upper eschelons but it soon will (I hope).

[PeaceBlondie]

Speaking of roll or role call, it was required at my last school, a commercial college. 28 students per class; role totally in Thai script. Even if it had been in Roman letters, I wasn't going to waste 15 minutes saying "Banchata Damawonggala...Wasanot Chasalat...Boontarep Pump-handle-na-Chiangrai..."

[jasreeve17]

As for the private Unis (which will never be top 3), the student's cash empowers them...

I'm in a decent private university and cheating is not tolerated.

That's good to hear. Which uni?

[Rhys]

The Roll situation is up to the teacher at my school. For me this is time consuming and I still have trouble pronoucing the names. The official policy requires 80% attendance. I have a funny story about attendance.. three students failed my class three times, but yet.. they came to class on time.. and...at 100% attendance.. They managed to squeeze out a D on the last try.. with a little help.

[jasreeve17]

The Roll situation is up to the teacher at my school. For me this is time consuming and I still have trouble pronoucing the names. The official policy requires 80% attendance. I have a funny story about attendance.. three students failed my class three times, but yet.. they came to class on time.. and...at 100% attendance.. They managed to squeeze out a D on the last try.. with a little help.

That's awful!

Come on time, ready to learn and fail three times??? There's a problem here - I go out of my way to make sure that students who attend class and are prepared to learn and work hard, pass the course, even if I have to offer them extra tuition.

If they are so low that you were unable to help them then there's an admission problem...

[barky]

Just remember that if they are caught cheating, it's YOUR fault not theirs. You shouldn't have caught them.

Agree with this.

I know this goes against everything you may have been brought up with about cheating.

Forget it. Your in Thailand not the west!

Stop losing sleep over it.

It's THEIR problem. Don't make it yours. There's no browny points for being the white knight.

Enjoy your time here, but don't allow yourself to belive YOUR priciples matter at all to Thais.

Edited September 10, 2009 by barky

[Rhys]

The Roll situation is up to the teacher at my school. For me this is time consuming and I still have trouble pronoucing the names. The official policy requires 80% attendance. I have a funny story about attendance.. three students failed my class three times, but yet.. they came to class on time.. and...at 100% attendance.. They managed to squeeze out a D on the last try.. with a little help.

That's awful!

Come on time, ready to learn and fail three times??? There's a problem here - I go out of my way to make sure that students who attend class and are prepared to learn and work hard, pass the course, even if I have to offer them extra tuition.

If they are so low that you were unable to help them then there's an admission problem...

Interesting....The students just showed up.. did not attempt...make the effort...they were of the mind set.. I show up.. I pass...(this is not ready to learn) This is why it is a tough call.. these students fall in the cracks.. Other students are waiting...besides these coolaid lovers... Admission...to the program is a joke.. sadly.. the focus is---access to education rather than excellence. YET we do our best...and when it does not cut it... the Thai way of MBR...nevermind...you tried....move on..

[philo]

......

The top three unis are Chula, Thammasart and Mahidol - these are smart students who know that cheating = F.

......

I have known students from these universities (and others) that traded 'flesh' for 'academical writing'. It was fun. Except from the pleasure of being together studying (copying and reformulating, that is), I learned alot about various academic fields from outlining their different papers and theses.

What was the most rewarding experience was this: If you are taught how to collect information, read it, reflect on it, question it and finally compile it your way (with proper references), then you can tutor yourself any subject. This - unfortunately - is not the case in Thailand.

Get real: I have met (female) students that I know from Siam Square in the massage parlors on Rachada. Some I have helped out, some have a Chinese 'Sugar Daddy' who has hired a (relatively bright) male student to write the paper and do a superficially tutoring on the subject (in case questions should be asked).

Everybody knows that even a 'real' PhD thesis doesn't cost more than 50-100k in Thailand.

(Edit: misspellings)

Edited September 13, 2009 by philo

[Scott]

I doubt that there is any institution anywhere that doesn't have cheating. I guess the question is, how widespread is it here as compared to everywhere else?

[Rhys]

More on this.. The ESL P THANG.... Well this is a western concept is it not...Asian cultures do not follow the same line of thinking in the west. Could it be something called ETHICS..... According to some....copying is a form of sharing education... funny comment.. Why should I rewrite something that has been written perfectly in English, and you want me to rewrite it badly... Don't worry critical thinking not apply here. Also, this copying is taught even by WESTERN ENGLISH teaching in formalic writing or patchwork writing... YES... yes..some cannot make the jump to independent thought.. And.. OK..some never make it out of the lower levels.... the definition of P.. is not universal.. even in the western universities many cannot agree.... OK.. many university policy statements spell it out.. thus you follow it. Some students make the connection.

Yet, how often as teachers do we lift "thangs" and do not credit our sources?

Face it, many students cannot summarize or paraphrase or cite references..... because... it takes too much work.. Thus plagiarism.

Look at the various style of research writing.... especially in the quantative area...GEEZ....not much orginality there.. Better to be boring than enlightening..

END GAME: As teachers... encourage the awareness, smile, then bring the student in the office and as those to creditable scholars.. Martin, C., Chong, T., suggest.. Balif, whack his or her peeee peee...

Edited September 18, 2009 by Rhys

[elkangorito]

Please explain Rhys!

What is an "ESL P THANG"? I have no idea about what you are speaking.

[MrHammer]

It's really not considered cheating as a poster wrote, it's helping. At Thammasat Thai students just borrowed older students papers and presented as their own after a little rewriting. Asians are group oriented, all the things we consider cheating is seen as being a good friend and helpful. A teacher I knew asked the class (all Thais and me), what things are Thailand good at producing? No reply. Then the teacher went on to say: Thais are good at copying! This is what you're dealing with.

All in all, Thai universities remind me a lot of high school. I don't think the western approach is any better though as it promotes being a selfish antisocial prick. Probably why scientists sometimes have very little grasp of reality.

[femi fan]

I doubt that there is any institution anywhere that doesn't have cheating. I guess the question is, how widespread is it here as compared to everywhere else?

That would be one question, but the key question has not been asked on this thread, and i rarely hear it asked.

And that is, why do students at unis cheat? Why?

There will always be those in life everywhere who cheat for cheating's sake, but i would begin to answer my own question by suggesting that a lot of the cheating that goes on is a reflection of the education these students are actually getting. In addition it will be indirectly affected by how students are treated by their teachers and the institution that they are studying at. Both teachers and those running institutions and writing curricula need to look at THEMSELVES first to try and find long-term answers to plagiarism.

In short, if the syllabus is boring the pants off the students, and if the teachers don't even know the students' names, and if the teachers are busy stamping their 'authority' over students with threats and teacher/adult-knows-best attitudes, then i feel it is quite easy to understand students' behaviour. Furthermore there is the fear factor of failing in societies where the need to avoid failure is deeply ingrained in society and the psyche.

In my understanding of the world, an education system that has failure as an inherent part of it has itself failed miserably. Furthermore, this obsession with assessment (teacher has all the answers, can the students find those fixed answers?) has backwash influence that helps colour the actual syllabus.

It is almost impossible to cheat at skills and strategies and abilities, so if education were more geared towards this than the simple collecting of knowledge (that of course preexists), then cheating could be almost wiped out at a stroke. In addition, when true learner-centredness becomes the default in education, then students will be motivated by their learning, and will be happy to do their own exploring and to uncover their own skills and joys in tackling life through the medium of education.

Too many students are bored rigid by their classes, and too many students have so many complaints about their teachers.

And too many teachers are so fixed on their roles that they don't have sufficiently open minds to tackle this issue.

Learn their names, treat them as fellow human beings, motivate them to learn, set assignments that make it next to impossible to cheat, and so on. Why is it that teachers just about always blame their students for everything?

Incidentally, my post is not written with regard to thailand in particular, but education in general all over the world.

[Scott]

Good post, a couple of additional points. By the time they get to university, they probably have a long history of cheating. I've seen 2nd graders cheat.

Another point is that a lot of times they have never really chosen a career path; someone else has decided they will be an engineer, etc., so their investment in actually learning the subject is not well motivated.

Third, the emphasis on rote learning doesn't help.

Finally, with the level of corruption in the country, including politicians with fake degrees, contributes to the problem. The message is given that achieving something through unethical means is OK.

[jasreeve17]

Yes, femi fan makes some good points.

The fear of failure is critical - all great thinkers, scientists, teachers, students, anybody that ever advanced any field, has encountered failure in order to advance.

Developing skills, and providing the students with tools to develop their own skillset, is of course another key idea - A negative example I came across a few weeks ago:

I took three students to a national English speaking contest which offered fair sized cash prizes and scholarships to the winners. Once I'd heard the students speak I was disgusted by the coaching that had clearly gone on by their so-called teachers. My three students independantly developed their own work with their own content and style, refelecting their ideas and self; they could easily develop further speeches in the future should they need to. Most of the other students, alas, including three of the four winners, were just little copies of their teacher... By watching the three students from each uni you'd know exactly how their teacher spoke, down to their reading preferences (quotes inserted) and regional accent (pronunciation coaching). If you'd actually asked these students to create a new speech they wouldn't be able to, so the contest becomes worthless and the student's time wasted - it was nothing more than an ego contest for the coaches...

I discussed this with the teachers from a couple of other unis who clearly thought I was mad and were proud about their coaching methods - these were foreign teachers by the way. In my mind these 'teachers' were 'teaching' the students to cheat rather than take the opportunity to allow the student to develop and showcase their own skills.

I left feeling very sorry for my students and the few others who had tried hard to create their own work. I will not be involved with this contest again.

[femi fan]

Good post, a couple of additional points. By the time they get to university, they probably have a long history of cheating. I've seen 2nd graders cheat.

Another point is that a lot of times they have never really chosen a career path; someone else has decided they will be an engineer, etc., so their investment in actually learning the subject is not well motivated.

Third, the emphasis on rote learning doesn't help.

Finally, with the level of corruption in the country, including politicians with fake degrees, contributes to the problem. The message is given that achieving something through unethical means is OK.

But is it viewed as cheating, and i mean before they get to university? Unless i have previously misunderstood things, the word and accusation in english 'you liar' has grave connotations, and is not bandied about easily at all. The word for word translation in thai is of course' kohork', and it seems that this has much less seriousness attached to the using of it for other people.

The same could be for 'cheating'.

I've seen stuff that school students copy, and the same for uni students. The stuff i've seen left me wondering just what kind of homework was being given, and of what worth. Firstly it seemed pretty irrelevant to life, and secondly it was the kind of homework that leant itself to being copyable, cheatable. This was partly behind my point that education seems slanted towards the mindset that cheating/copying is the best way out of the boring rubbish being given to students.

I feel that if education inspires those who are in it, and i mean both teachers and learners, then such attitudes that we're talking about pretty much disappear of their own accord. The fact that cheating goes on reflects an absence of inherent motivation from the subject being studied.

Strategies and learner-enablement, and decent motivating subject matter are the prerequisites for worthwhile education.

But as you say, if society has problems inherent in it, then problems are harder to solve.

But, on the other hand, education is surely the best possible chance for leading society forward towards more beneficial changes. It needs bold teachers who are prepared to question their institutions if need be, and who are able to motivate themselves sufficiently in order to have enough energy to help learners with their own motivational forces.

Those in education who care about their students, in my opinion, need to put their students first above all else. If anyone in any job needs to question the status quo, it's teachers. So if society is holding us back, fight it! Slowly but surely of course, but never to give up. Cheating is a reflection of the education that it occurs in. For me, cheating indicates a curriculum that is boring and perceived as worthless. No-one will cheat in something that inspires them.

[femi fan]

I left feeling very sorry for my students and the few others who had tried hard to create their own work. I will not be involved with this contest again.

But you can't give up on them!! Students to a great degree depend on teachers for their education. I bet your three students learnt a few decent lessons there. Injustice is all around in most societies, but we have to fight it! Your students can either accept it, or take the bitter pill and realise the worth of doing things for themselves and trying to be independent.

Who else can fight the system but teachers with the right amount of awareness, and experience?

I think you should get right back into that contest if it comes up again! At least three students will benefit, and perhaps others will see the lessons learned too, even if you don't know about this. A lot of a teacher's best work we never discover overtly. I once read that the best teachers are those that are remembered ten years on by their ex-students. Of course, we don't get to hear about it directly! It's a tough tough job being a teacher, but it the good points must be grasped with both hands so that we can carry on maintaining our self-motivation.

I reckon teaching is one of the hardest and possibly the most important jobs in society. It needs a certain kind of madman to embrace the job and not give into the status quo...