Villa Market Users Beware!

[Ajarn]

I stick to fresh sai ua sausages from the market. 

That said I recently made an almost archeological discovery in my fridge which was a aluminum foil package with a 'best use by' date about a year go. Also the label had vanished so decided to continue my research to see what it was.  Turns out if was the cheese fondue my sister had brought for me like 2 years ago..  And... it was still pretty good!  The dog liked it, even my wife liked it!! Amazing.

Sorry, carry on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've always appreciated a nice aged cheese, too

[carlthailand]

I just buy the stuff at the back. Hoping that they DO rotate. Then check the use by date. Was sick of getting milk etc which was going to go out of date in a day.

Nomad

[chingy_]

i shop at foodland alots, anybody have any comment on foodland since we are on the food store topic

[Jai Dee]

i shop at foodland alots, anybody have any comment on foodland since we are on the food store topic

I've never seen any out-of-date foodstuffs on the shelves in either Foodland in Bangkok or Pattaya. And I'm talking manufacturer's labels here too.

[kat]

For future reference, it might be advantageous to inform the market that you are citing the below sections of the Food Act of 2522 from the Food and Drug Administration and will be phoning the Food Control Divison at 02-590-7186 to report them as a violator.

If you want changes to a system, you have to take action.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reality check, guys.  Let's assume that you can rely on the use-by date being correct for refrigerated, perishable food.

But how on earth do you know that it has been handled correctly, kept at the right temperature, consistently from the factory, through transportation to Thailand, off-loading, customs, to the distributor, to the supermarket.....and while in the supermarket there has never been a power outage or any other mishandling of the food?

The only safe thing to do, realistically, is to "go native" as far as eating perishable foods is concerned.  Eat what you can see and verify as fresh.  Otherwise forget about it.  Use-by dates are the least of your problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reality check, guys.  Let's assume that you can rely on the use-by date being correct for refrigerated, perishable food.

But how on earth do you know that it has been handled correctly, kept at the right temperature, consistently from the factory, through transportation to Thailand, off-loading, customs, to the distributor, to the supermarket.....and while in the supermarket there has never been a power outage or any other mishandling of the food?

The only safe thing to do, realistically, is to "go native" as far as eating perishable foods is concerned.  Eat what you can see and verify as fresh.  Otherwise forget about it.  Use-by dates are the least of your problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only problem with your "go native" theory is that it is certainly not all that safe either. I do eat mostly eat local products, but it's absolutely not without it's own risks as these three (there are dozens more available) reports indicate:

Most fresh markets still far from meeting health standards

Despite heavy campaigns for food safety during the past couple of years, only about one-third of fresh markets countrywide have been found to meet health standards.

Only 553 out of 1,505 fresh markets inspected in the country met food-safety standards set by the Public Health Ministry, said Dr Vichai Thienthavorn, director-general of the ministry's Department of Health.

The numbers are even worse in the capital, with only 20 out of 156 fresh markets, or 12 per cent, meeting the ministry's standards.

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Contaminated foods still remain part of our daily diet

More than halfway through 2004, a year designated by the Thaksin administration as Food Safety Year, the food the people in this country eat every day is anything but safe. How can our food ever be safe if fruit and vegetables continue to be laced with insecticide, if meat is contaminated with the harmful residue of livestock pharmaceuticals, if preserved food is tainted with germs and microbes and seafood is loaded with heavy metals?

If the latest survey by the Department of Medical Sciences is any guide, Thailand has a long way to go before universal food safety, the very goal of the government’s Food Safety Year campaign, exists.

According to the department’s latest survey of som tam (papaya salad), one of the most popular Thai dishes, 67 per cent of the samples taken from different locations around the country, including everything from roadside and market stalls to air-conditioned food courts and restaurants, were found to contain germs and microbes that cause diarrhoea, food poisoning and other illnesses.

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Raid finds contaminated pork

A large quantity of pork contaminated with banned chemicals was discovered during the government's largest-ever food safety inspection at a major fresh-meat market in Bangkok Noi yesterday morning.

Up to 85 per cent of the 13 samples taken from each pork vendor tested positive for Salbutamol, an agent mixed into pig feed to improve the colour of the meat. Fourteen per cent of 28 samples of pork mince were found to contain borax, said Public Health Minister Sudarat Keyuraphan.

___________________________________________________

As an addendum, "Eat what you can see and verify as fresh" is only marginally effective as you can't "see" insectides, borax, and the other chemicals discussed.

Many are specifically put in to make the meats, fruits, etc. "look" better and more appetizing.

Bon appetite everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent posts. Thanks SJ, for posting the food safety regulations. I waver between carefully choosing what and where I eat, to just trying to calm down and eat at local foodstands. I basically do both, but I have to admit that I get sick quite a bit. And some of it is general malaise that is very hard to pinpoint and could have a lot to do with food quality. I've actually had dizzy spells and chemical sensations on my lips after drinking tangerine juice when I first arrived here. And I love som tam. But it's true that you really can't be too careful anywhere, as Wamberal suggests. But unsafe food is a lot more prevelant here.

edit - can't spell

Edited March 16, 2005 by kat

[Oleg_Rus]

anyone heard about court case for beeing poisoned? either restaurant, foodstall, foodcenter, dept. store?

1 beer for true story.

MSG might cause everything incl cancer. Used everywhere at amazing ammounts.

ever tried to eat thai food without it ? or even cook it without magic powder ?

tastes like v***t! kitchen of the world, some said.

[chanchao]

MSG is mostly harmless unless you use it in outrageous quantities. Think of it as salt. It's not good for you but a little really is no problem. (People with allergies and things aside)

> ever tried to eat thai food without it ? or even cook it without magic powder ?

All the time. I don't even own any MSG in my kitchen. And when you get food made-to-order at a food stall then you're standing there looking what they use and how much of it. Easy to leave it out. 'mai sai phong choo rot khap'

It's not hard.

> tastes like v***t! kitchen of the world, some said.

Well.. I'm not easily impressed anymore by what people say. Like I think you can stir fry things like chicken, broccoli, shrimp, herbs etc etc without it coming out like v***t. Sounds like a challenge almost to make it come out like v***t.. I guess I'd probably have to eat it first and then regurgitate. But after how much time exactly to get best results.. hmm... I'll get back to you on that.

[Khun Ngo]

anyone heard about court case for beeing poisoned? either restaurant, foodstall, foodcenter, dept. store?

1 beer for true story.

MSG might cause everything incl cancer. Used everywhere at amazing ammounts.

ever tried to eat thai food without it ? or even cook it without magic powder ?

tastes like v***t! kitchen of the world, some said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MSG, is that the stuff also known as "glutamate" or something like this?

Whenever I buy Som Tam, or Nam Tok, I tell the vendor not to put "pom shoo rot"

in it. Well in restaurants and ready made food stores its not possible to avoid it. But

I think it's worth to reducce the intake of it.

I have banned it from my own kitchen too.

And mind you, this stuff ist also found in ready made "spice packs", I don't use them

anymore too.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Khun Ngo

[sriracha john]

Excellent posts.  Thanks SJ, for posting the food safety regulations.

Thank you... it's related to my background in preventive medicine, so I was keen to try and put things as clearly as I could. My public service for the week...   

I waver between carefully choosing what and where I eat, to just trying to calm down and eat at local foodstands.  I basically do both, but I have to admit that I get sick quite a bit.

That's common for many. I eat the majority of my meals from shops and stalls, but have only gotten sick once in the last 6 years. **knock on wood**

It mainly has to do with constitution and previous exposure to microbes and other miscellaneous bugs (been all around the tropics for 35 years). Early on, I got sick often as well. 

And some of it is general malaise that is very hard to pinpoint and could have a lot to do with food quality.  I've actually had dizzy spells and chemical sensations on my lips after drinking tangerine juice when I first arrived here. 

a classic symptom of insecticide use....  

And I love som tam.

me too... especially som tam poo Sriracha... but I do reiterate the newspaper finding about som tam specifically:

"67 per cent of the samples taken from different locations around the country, including everything from roadside and market stalls to air-conditioned food courts and restaurants, were found to contain germs and microbes that cause diarrhoea, food poisoning and other illnesses."

But it's true that you really can't be too careful anywhere, as Wamberal suggests.  But unsafe food is a lot more prevelant here.

Absolutely... as well as many other places of similiar socio-economic status. People have to be aware of it and do the best they can.

As they used to say on "Hill Street Blues":

Be careful out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[JacknDanny]

Just updating you. Today I made a phone call to the number provided by Sriricha John. Was put through to another department, very helpful, listened, appeared sincere(who knows). They took my details and told me that the shop in question would get a visit in the next few days.

They also requested that I keep, as evidence , the 3 packs of bacon that I kept to prove this malpractice, and that if they needed anymore info, they would call me.

Whitewash???? Who knows?. I will let you know of any further developments.

As I say its not the fact that an out of date product was being sold, anyone can make a mistake!!. But the fact is that this shop DELIBERATELY altered the label making it appear to be a fresh product. Thats potentially very dangerous!!!

Anyways keep you informed

[Thaiboxer]

There are two kinds of MSG...the regular monosodium glutamate found in just about all Asian food that is not harmful (provided you have no allergies to it) and then the fake MSG which is made with who knows what and can supposedly cause cancer. I would guess that most street vendors opt for the fake stuff since it's very cheap and as Benjamin Franklin once said, "A penny saved is a penny earned."

There are some Thai folks who avoid MSG and are more health conscious like their Western counterparts. A "No Msg" sign in a restaurant window will often attract customers in the West but here it would most likely repel them...no MSG in the food and most Thais won't touch it. People here are just so used to eating it. In regards to street vendors, here's another interesting piece of info: many of them reuse their cooking oil. For example, they'll make fried rice then simply pour the leftover oil, food particles, etc through a household strainer and into another container which they will then dip their spatulas in for the next meal they cook. The open air restaraunts would be less likely to do this I think because they serve so many customers each day and they make higher profits which means they may care less about how much cooking oil they use. Best way to tell is to just take a look...cooking oil should not look like Lipton tea; if it does it's probably used.

[baht&sold]

Just updating you. Today I made a phone call to the number provided by Sriricha John. Was put through to another department, very helpful, listened, appeared sincere(who knows). They took my details and told me that the shop in question would get a visit in the next few days.

They also requested that I keep, as evidence , the 3 packs of bacon that I kept to prove this malpractice, and that if they needed anymore info, they would call me.

Whitewash???? Who knows?. I will let you know of any further developments.

As I say its not the fact that an out of date product was being sold, anyone can make a mistake!!. But the fact is that this shop DELIBERATELY altered the label making it appear to be a fresh product. Thats potentially very dangerous!!!

Anyways keep you informed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took a moment and cc'd Eileen over at Yorkies about the thread (knowing they put quality ahead of any other concern and their products are top nosh in my opinion, nice folks too). Just got an email back, suffice to say, they're none to pleased about the switched labelling and will be following up as well.

Edited Quote: "We have always prided ourselves on top quality goods and would only EVER send Yorkies products out in good condition with the proper date etc." and "We never compromise on quality, nor do we cut corners in order to make an extra few baht. I am therefore horrified to find that this happened and I will make it my business to call in and see Mr **** (at Villla) personally..."

If you'd like their email, pls pm.

Daniel

[Ijustwannateach]

Kudos to all on the thread! I've got a friend who does most of his shopping there; I'll tell him to read this.

Ironically, I figure that the fresh-cooked Soi foods (stir fries, boiled noodles, etc.) are some of the heathiest in Thailand because they get served at a temperature hot enough to kill the bacteria. It's when you eat anything that's been sitting out for awhile or uncooked that you get in trouble.

"Steven"

[JacknDanny]

Just updating you. Today I made a phone call to the number provided by Sriricha John. Was put through to another department, very helpful, listened, appeared sincere(who knows). They took my details and told me that the shop in question would get a visit in the next few days.

They also requested that I keep, as evidence , the 3 packs of bacon that I kept to prove this malpractice, and that if they needed anymore info, they would call me.

Whitewash???? Who knows?. I will let you know of any further developments.

As I say its not the fact that an out of date product was being sold, anyone can make a mistake!!. But the fact is that this shop DELIBERATELY altered the label making it appear to be a fresh product. Thats potentially very dangerous!!!

Anyways keep you informed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took a moment and cc'd Eileen over at Yorkies about the thread (knowing they put quality ahead of any other concern and their products are top nosh in my opinion, nice folks too). Just got an email back, suffice to say, they're none to pleased about the switched labelling and will be following up as well.

Edited Quote: "We have always prided ourselves on top quality goods and would only EVER send Yorkies products out in good condition with the proper date etc." and "We never compromise on quality, nor do we cut corners in order to make an extra few baht. I am therefore horrified to find that this happened and I will make it my business to call in and see Mr **** (at Villla) personally..."

If you'd like their email, pls pm.

Daniel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Daniel, have just sent you an e mail. I would be more than happy to explain to Eileen exactly what Villa are upto

[sriracha john]

Just updating you. Today I made a phone call to the number provided by Sriricha John. Was put through to another department, very helpful, listened, appeared sincere(who knows). They took my details and told me that the shop in question would get a visit in the next few days.

They also requested that I keep, as evidence , the 3 packs of bacon that I kept to prove this malpractice, and that if they needed anymore info, they would call me.

Whitewash???? Who knows?. I will let you know of any further developments.

As I say its not the fact that an out of date product was being sold, anyone can make a mistake!!. But the fact is that this shop DELIBERATELY altered the label making it appear to be a fresh product. Thats potentially very dangerous!!!

Anyways keep you informed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the update, Jack. Glad it was of some help anyway. Look forward to hearing any further how things go.

ohh.. btw, did you happen to mention the Food Act in your conversation? Just wondering... as I imagine that they would have been surprised by that..

[sriracha john]

Kudos to all on the thread!  I've got a friend who does most of his shopping there; I'll tell him to read this.

Ironically, I figure that the fresh-cooked Soi foods (stir fries, boiled noodles, etc.) are some of the heathiest in Thailand because they get served at a temperature hot enough to kill the bacteria.  It's when you eat anything that's been sitting out for awhile or uncooked that you get in trouble.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's "generally" true, however, some encapsulated bacteria are resistant to heat and will survive. The other concern is the problem with additives, such as borax in pork or insecticide contamination of vegetables going into the pan... both of which may still be present after cooking. Microbes are only one hazard. Having said that, it is still preferred to lukewarm or sitting-out pans of food.

[JacknDanny]

Just updating you. Today I made a phone call to the number provided by Sriricha John. Was put through to another department, very helpful, listened, appeared sincere(who knows). They took my details and told me that the shop in question would get a visit in the next few days.

They also requested that I keep, as evidence , the 3 packs of bacon that I kept to prove this malpractice, and that if they needed anymore info, they would call me.

Whitewash???? Who knows?. I will let you know of any further developments.

As I say its not the fact that an out of date product was being sold, anyone can make a mistake!!. But the fact is that this shop DELIBERATELY altered the label making it appear to be a fresh product. Thats potentially very dangerous!!!

Anyways keep you informed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the update, Jack. Glad it was of some help anyway. Look forward to hearing any further how things go.

ohh.. btw, did you happen to mention the Food Act in your conversation? Just wondering... as I imagine that they would have been surprised by that..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I did, which is possibly one of the reasons they were so attentive.

I am also in communication with Yorkies about this, who are also concerned and promise to follow up with Villa.

[AndyW]

Found an interesting article on pesticide use here in Thailand.

Did you take your poison?

great quote from one farmer:

“Previously I used a lot of pesticides. There were different chemicals for different pests. I used to mix many types of pesticide together. I kept changing the mixture because the worms and insects were becoming resistant, and the chemicals didn’t work. The pesticides used to cost about 10,000 Baht per Rai each season.”

“Spraying was carried out all the year. One day I would spray and the next day the crop would be harvested and sent to market. I knew how dangerous that was. I always had headaches and felt dizzy after spraying pesticides, so I never used to eat those vegetables. I used to have a small plot that I didn’t spray; those were the vegetables for our own consumption.”

Is there anything safe to eat here? I always buy veg that comes from the Doi Kham projects - at least they spray less....

[Sphere]

Just updating you. Today I made a phone call to the number provided by Sriricha John. Was put through to another department, very helpful, listened, appeared sincere(who knows). They took my details and told me that the shop in question would get a visit in the next few days.

They also requested that I keep, as evidence , the 3 packs of bacon that I kept to prove this malpractice, and that if they needed anymore info, they would call me.

Whitewash???? Who knows?. I will let you know of any further developments.

As I say its not the fact that an out of date product was being sold, anyone can make a mistake!!. But the fact is that this shop DELIBERATELY altered the label making it appear to be a fresh product. Thats potentially very dangerous!!!

Anyways keep you informed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great stuff!

I have regularly spotted stuff there that shouldn't be on the shelves. To rub salt in to the wound, their pricing is between 5-15% higher than the other supermarkets.

I hope your phone call helps. However, there is a downside to leaving your phone number and address in such cases.

[sriracha john]

Just updating you. Today I made a phone call to the number provided by Sriricha John. Was put through to another department, very helpful, listened, appeared sincere(who knows). They took my details and told me that the shop in question would get a visit in the next few days.

They also requested that I keep, as evidence , the 3 packs of bacon that I kept to prove this malpractice, and that if they needed anymore info, they would call me.

Whitewash???? Who knows?. I will let you know of any further developments.

As I say its not the fact that an out of date product was being sold, anyone can make a mistake!!. But the fact is that this shop DELIBERATELY altered the label making it appear to be a fresh product. Thats potentially very dangerous!!!

Anyways keep you informed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the update, Jack. Glad it was of some help anyway. Look forward to hearing any further how things go.

ohh.. btw, did you happen to mention the Food Act in your conversation? Just wondering... as I imagine that they would have been surprised by that..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I did, which is possibly one of the reasons they were so attentive.

I am also in communication with Yorkies about this, who are also concerned and promise to follow up with Villa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VERY good. I was hoping you would as it might make you seem like more of an informed consumer then someone just ranting. It sounds like it definitely helped. It's always encouraging to think you've made a positive step. It often seems like it's almost impossible to do that here sometimes...

[Kringle]

For future reference, it might be advantageous to inform the market that you are citing the below sections of the Food Act of 2522 from the Food and Drug Administration and will be phoning the Food Control Divison at 02-590-7186 to report them as a violator.

If you want changes to a system, you have to take action.

Won't work as the workers and management won't be able to read this as only English, can just forget this as anything to show to them.

[Simbo]

I stick to fresh sai ua sausages from the market. 

That said I recently made an almost archeological discovery in my fridge which was a aluminum foil package with a 'best use by' date about a year go. Also the label had vanished so decided to continue my research to see what it was.  Turns out if was the cheese fondue my sister had brought for me like 2 years ago..  And... it was still pretty good!  The dog liked it, even my wife liked it!! Amazing.

Sorry, carry on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All this palaver over shops selling out of date goods. How many of us buy food and keep it in our freezers till it's months out of date. I know I do, but then again, thats my choice. I come from an era when we never had date stamping and I'm still here. Also, isn't it going a bit far when you date stamp a tin of beans?

In the UK. I used to go in supermarkets late on, to get cheap food at the end of it,s sell by date. Saved a bit of money too.

[ProfessorFart]

What good has ANY law in Thailand ever done?

[JacknDanny]

I stick to fresh sai ua sausages from the market. 

That said I recently made an almost archeological discovery in my fridge which was a aluminum foil package with a 'best use by' date about a year go. Also the label had vanished so decided to continue my research to see what it was.  Turns out if was the cheese fondue my sister had brought for me like 2 years ago..  And... it was still pretty good!  The dog liked it, even my wife liked it!! Amazing.

Sorry, carry on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All this palaver over shops selling out of date goods. How many of us buy food and keep it in our freezers till it's months out of date. I know I do, but then again, thats my choice. I come from an era when we never had date stamping and I'm still here. Also, isn't it going a bit far when you date stamp a tin of beans?

In the UK. I used to go in supermarkets late on, to get cheap food at the end of it,s sell by date. Saved a bit of money too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/

quote]

Buying food at the end of its sell by date is a little bit different to buying food which has been out of date for several weeks and has had its true identifying EAT BY date covered over by another label.

Like you say it is everybodys personal choice. Personally I think if you choose to eat out of date food particularly meat, just to save a couple of quid, then youre just plain daft!!!

[FreedomDude]

I think the best result could be achieved by printing out this discussion and mailing or delivering it to the owner of the store to let them know the reputation they're getting. Anyone up for it? (I'm not in BKK!)

[austen]

And while we're on the subject...

I also make it a point to avoid the prepared foods on sale by the meat section at Tops...they're cooking that fish and chicken, etc because it's about to go past its expiration date and it's a last chance at selling it. Not blaming them at all--this is normal practice at Western supermarkets as well and is perfectly legal and probably won't hurt you. But it always makes me think twice about that good looking roast chicken..

Though not the same as deliberately misleading the public...Villas always did seem like the dirtiest and most unkempt of area supermarkets, which I always found odd since they're the one chain that caters most to Western customers...

[sriracha john]

For future reference, it might be advantageous to inform the market that you are citing the below sections of the Food Act of 2522 from the Food and Drug Administration and will be phoning the Food Control Divison at 02-590-7186 to report them as a violator.

If you want changes to a system, you have to take action.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Won't work as the workers and management won't be able to read this as only English, can just forget this as anything to show to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

**sigh** do you think this Thai law is written only in English? Never said he had to show them this particular post... simply cite it. I only posted the English version for the English-reading public here. The FDA has the full act in English AND Thai (quite amazing, eh?) on their website.

[sriracha john]

I stick to fresh sai ua sausages from the market. 

That said I recently made an almost archeological discovery in my fridge which was a aluminum foil package with a 'best use by' date about a year go. Also the label had vanished so decided to continue my research to see what it was.  Turns out if was the cheese fondue my sister had brought for me like 2 years ago..   And... it was still pretty good!  The dog liked it, even my wife liked it!! Amazing.

Sorry, carry on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All this palaver over shops selling out of date goods. How many of us buy food and keep it in our freezers till it's months out of date.

For perishable foods like meat, the expiration date is really only for keeping it under refrigeration. By freezing meat, you automatically extend this date. Bacteria can't grow at freezing temperatures.

[udon]

I've only tried shopping in Villa, Pahon Yothin once and was not impressed.

Has anyone checked out their store for date labels nr soi 33?

Soi 33 should have a high turnover as it's always full of expats at all hours.

A couple of years ago they had a very concientious manager who spoke excellent English and was very helpful.

Is he still there?

Thanks for the heads-up Jack.

[brianbrain]

Soi 33 should have a high turnover as it's always full of expats at all hours.

Thanks for the heads-up Jack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A few months back - I'm not a regular shopper at Villa - I noticed they had pigs cervix for sale. Maybe that item has a slower turnover