Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[churchill]

My QROPS is currently invested in London 360 , fund manager - and I had invested in Blackrock's Gold and General - Now in cash in sterling - I believe I can invest in stocks directly with London 360 but am sure charges will be high and will not be dealing on line .

I have been unhappy with trading times in the Gold and General fund 2/3 days , which given the present markets is unacceptable .

I now want to be able to invest directly into shares on line myself , without relying on others to process trades .

Any recomendations - Should I be dealing with a local firm in Thailand or in Hong Kong , UK , Isle of Mann ?

Thanks

ps Advisors MBMG are also looking into this and am awaiting their advice but would appreciate other opinions .

[wordchild]

I think it depends on who is the administrator of your fund in terms of what they allow and what they will charge. I have a QROP based in Guernsey ,the administrator acts ONLY as trustee and reporting entity to HM revenue, everything else, including the fund management , I do myself . I pay a fixed annual fee for the administration services and use a UK based stockbroker to carry out trades on my behalf. There is a great deal of mythology around QROPS and some ridiculous and opaque fee structures,(which has attracted some real sharks) but in essence a QROP is just a wrapper like an ISA or a SIPP and it is possible to structure them in a low (ish) cost way and allow yourself control and flexibility over the investments . If you are not getting this from your current provider move the money!

Edited September 7, 2009 by wordchild

[wordchild]

I dont Know much about your provider ,I believe its what used to be known as Royal London, an insurance company. In general i would say best not to have an insurance company as your QROP provider, they are addicted to high charges,much of which you dont see, and overpaying financial advisers with your money. If you can move to a low cost administration only service without too much penalty then that might be right for you. As an aside it slightly worries me,on your behalf, that you have retained MBMG (a Thai based financial adviser) to give you advice on this,are you sure they can be impartial?

Edited September 7, 2009 by wordchild

[badge]

Are you looking for a stock broker? I use CFDs with a broker in London, and do not qualify for any UK taxes.

For further security you could establish an offshore trading vehicle for a couple of thousandGBP - and perhaps 500GBP per year - to trade through.

[wordchild]

A QROP is a taxfree offshore vehicle ,you dont need another one.on reflection Churchill I would have thought your best bet is to contact your provider directly yourself and go through their charges. while their share trading costs maybe a higher than online how much that matters depends on how often you are going to trade. you need to balance that against the cost of moving provider. BTW the stockbroker who handles the trades can be anywhere incl onshore UK they dont need to be offshore as they are merely conducting trades for an offshore entity ie your QROP

Edited September 8, 2009 by wordchild

[churchill]

A QROP is a taxfree offshore vehicle ,you dont need another one.on reflection Churchill I would have thought your best bet is to contact your provider directly yourself and go through their charges. while their share trading costs maybe a higher than online how much that matters depends on how often you are going to trade. you need to balance that against the cost of moving provider. BTW the stockbroker who handles the trades can be anywhere incl onshore UK they dont need to be offshore as they are merely conducting trades for an offshore entity ie your QROP

Thanks for your advice - I will look into that - My main concern with London 360 has been their dealing process which can take 2/3 days - I would assume that if they are dealing directly in shares on my instruction that there would be no delay , but their dealing dept seems a bit chaotic and once they have processed the paper work the deal is passed onto somebody else to process the trade hence the delays - but as long as I can be assurred that this problem is solved I will consider staying with them .

The other delay being this end with MBMG who have being passing on my dealing instruction - So if I can do this directly myself - that problem will be solved .

[wordchild]

depending on how they are structured there can be delay in getting the QROP to carry out your instruction,eg they may have to conduct pre-trade due dilligence on behalf of the fund.the best way around all this is to have the QROP appoint you as fund manager and give you full discretion to deal on its behalf,this is what i have done,though this may not be possible with your provider. At the least, direct contact with your provider should cut down on some of the delay and may allow you to cut out some of the charges.Worth your while having a full review of all the charges within the fund there may be some surprises. Good Luck

[Maximus33]

A QROP is a taxfree offshore vehicle ,you dont need another one.on reflection Churchill I would have thought your best bet is to contact your provider directly yourself and go through their charges. while their share trading costs maybe a higher than online how much that matters depends on how often you are going to trade. you need to balance that against the cost of moving provider. BTW the stockbroker who handles the trades can be anywhere incl onshore UK they dont need to be offshore as they are merely conducting trades for an offshore entity ie your QROP

Thanks for your advice - I will look into that - My main concern with London 360 has been their dealing process which can take 2/3 days - I would assume that if they are dealing directly in shares on my instruction that there would be no delay , but their dealing dept seems a bit chaotic and once they have processed the paper work the deal is passed onto somebody else to process the trade hence the delays - but as long as I can be assurred that this problem is solved I will consider staying with them .

The other delay being this end with MBMG who have being passing on my dealing instruction - So if I can do this directly myself - that problem will be solved .

Hi, sounds like you have a RL360 Bond through which your pension investments are made. These are normally designed for long term investments and so normally a 2-3 delay is not important. If you want immediate investments, online trading platforms are possible through QROPS providers which should be quicker. The cost would depend on the frequency you wish to trade. Also, you don't mention who the QROPS provider is and where they are located? If it is RL360, then it would be th Hong Kong Trust, which is no longer being recommended.

[churchill]

A QROP is a taxfree offshore vehicle ,you dont need another one.on reflection Churchill I would have thought your best bet is to contact your provider directly yourself and go through their charges. while their share trading costs maybe a higher than online how much that matters depends on how often you are going to trade. you need to balance that against the cost of moving provider. BTW the stockbroker who handles the trades can be anywhere incl onshore UK they dont need to be offshore as they are merely conducting trades for an offshore entity ie your QROP

Thanks for your advice - I will look into that - My main concern with London 360 has been their dealing process which can take 2/3 days - I would assume that if they are dealing directly in shares on my instruction that there would be no delay , but their dealing dept seems a bit chaotic and once they have processed the paper work the deal is passed onto somebody else to process the trade hence the delays - but as long as I can be assurred that this problem is solved I will consider staying with them .

The other delay being this end with MBMG who have being passing on my dealing instruction - So if I can do this directly myself - that problem will be solved .

Hi, sounds like you have a RL360 Bond through which your pension investments are made. These are normally designed for long term investments and so normally a 2-3 delay is not important. If you want immediate investments, online trading platforms are possible through QROPS providers which should be quicker. The cost would depend on the frequency you wish to trade. Also, you don't mention who the QROPS provider is and where they are located? If it is RL360, then it would be th Hong Kong Trust, which is no longer being recommended.

Yes - Thanks - Am switching from Hong Kong Trust to Trustee in Guernsey .

[wordchild]

watch out for those charges!!

[churchill]

Thanks Guernsey are cheaper than HK .

and just to clarify in case of any misunderstanding MBMG are not responsible for dealing times at London 360 and in fact have been very helpful in trying to speed the process up - Other delays being unavoidable due to time differences .

[personchester]

I think it depends on who is the administrator of your fund in terms of what they allow and what they will charge. I have a QROP based in Guernsey ,the administrator acts ONLY as trustee and reporting entity to HM revenue, everything else, including the fund management , I do myself . I pay a fixed annual fee for the administration services and use a UK based stockbroker to carry out trades on my behalf. There is a great deal of mythology around QROPS and some ridiculous and opaque fee structures,(which has attracted some real sharks) but in essence a QROP is just a wrapper like an ISA or a SIPP and it is possible to structure them in a low (ish) cost way and allow yourself control and flexibility over the investments . If you are not getting this from your current provider move the money!

Yes, I agree with the above, your qrops provider sounds like Aurora, who have a selection of three qrops funds, and one can select to be independent in terms of "investment" without having to obtain the consent of the trustees which can be a nuisance at times due to explaining the details and the reasons, it is also time wasting which can result in negative reaction (entering the market after the surge) not to mention the fact that it is one's own money and not theirs, thus one should preserve this investment independence.

[wordchild]

I think it depends on who is the administrator of your fund in terms of what they allow and what they will charge. I have a QROP based in Guernsey ,the administrator acts ONLY as trustee and reporting entity to HM revenue, everything else, including the fund management , I do myself . I pay a fixed annual fee for the administration services and use a UK based stockbroker to carry out trades on my behalf. There is a great deal of mythology around QROPS and some ridiculous and opaque fee structures,(which has attracted some real sharks) but in essence a QROP is just a wrapper like an ISA or a SIPP and it is possible to structure them in a low (ish) cost way and allow yourself control and flexibility over the investments . If you are not getting this from your current provider move the money!

Yes, I agree with the above, your qrops provider sounds like Aurora, who have a selection of three qrops funds, and one can select to be independent in terms of "investment" without having to obtain the consent of the trustees which can be a nuisance at times due to explaining the details and the reasons, it is also time wasting which can result in negative reaction (entering the market after the surge) not to mention the fact that it is one's own money and not theirs, thus one should preserve this investment independence.

no its not them though I have heard of Aurora its another provider.

[chiang mai]

Are you looking for a stock broker? I use CFDs with a broker in London, and do not qualify for any UK taxes.

For further security you could establish an offshore trading vehicle for a couple of thousandGBP - and perhaps 500GBP per year - to trade through.

Just curious to know who you are using for CFD's, if you want to share? PM if you like.

[ISO]

Are you looking for a stock broker? I use CFDs with a broker in London, and do not qualify for any UK taxes.

For further security you could establish an offshore trading vehicle for a couple of thousandGBP - and perhaps 500GBP per year - to trade through.

Just curious to know who you are using for CFD's, if you want to share? PM if you like.

Just curious to know who you are using for your QROPS? as I'm looking for low cost entry/maintenance and only can find one at thcost 1000 GBP setup and 1000 GBP annual fee, which is too much to pay out

[alfieconn]

While we are on the subject does anyone know if the Guernsey juristiction will be working on a retirement age of 50 after April or will they be on 55 yrs ie. the same as the UK.

This seems to be a bit of a grey area so perhaps someone could clarify.

Thanks

Edited March 2, 2010 by alfieconn

[ISO]

I think it depends on who is the administrator of your fund in terms of what they allow and what they will charge. I have a QROP based in Guernsey ,the administrator acts ONLY as trustee and reporting entity to HM revenue, everything else, including the fund management , I do myself . I pay a fixed annual fee for the administration services and use a UK based stockbroker to carry out trades on my behalf. There is a great deal of mythology around QROPS and some ridiculous and opaque fee structures,(which has attracted some real sharks) but in essence a QROP is just a wrapper like an ISA or a SIPP and it is possible to structure them in a low (ish) cost way and allow yourself control and flexibility over the investments . If you are not getting this from your current provider move the money!

Yes, I agree with the above, your qrops provider sounds like Aurora, who have a selection of three qrops funds, and one can select to be independent in terms of "investment" without having to obtain the consent of the trustees which can be a nuisance at times due to explaining the details and the reasons, it is also time wasting which can result in negative reaction (entering the market after the surge) not to mention the fact that it is one's own money and not theirs, thus one should preserve this investment independence.

Just curious to know who you are using for your QROPS? as I'm looking for low cost entry/maintenance and only can find one at thcost 1000 GBP setup and 1000 GBP annual fee, which is too much to pay out

no its not them though I have heard of Aurora its another provider.

[wordchild]

Are you looking for a stock broker? I use CFDs with a broker in London, and do not qualify for any UK taxes.

For further security you could establish an offshore trading vehicle for a couple of thousandGBP - and perhaps 500GBP per year - to trade through.

Just curious to know who you are using for CFD's, if you want to share? PM if you like.

Just curious to know who you are using for your QROPS? as I'm looking for low cost entry/maintenance and only can find one at thcost 1000 GBP setup and 1000 GBP annual fee, which is too much to pay out

that sounds a very good deal to me esp 1000 GBP to set it up, are you sure they are kosher? what jurisdiction would that be in?

[wordchild]

While we are on the subject does anyone know if the Guernsey juristiction will be working on a retirement age of 50 after April or will they be on 55 yrs ie. the same as the UK.

This seems to be a bit of a grey area so perhaps someone could clarify.

Thanks

I am not sure of the complete answer to this but remember,in any event, for the first five years of the life of the fund your provider has to comply with uk guidelines and, report to the UK tax authorities. so effectivly, as i understand it, the UK rules on taking the benefits apply during this period and this will include the new age rule.

Edited March 2, 2010 by wordchild

[changnaam]

While we are on the subject does anyone know if the Guernsey juristiction will be working on a retirement age of 50 after April or will they be on 55 yrs ie. the same as the UK.

This seems to be a bit of a grey area so perhaps someone could clarify.

Thanks

I am not sure of the complete answer to this but remember,in any event, for the first five years of the life of the fund your provider has to comply with uk guidelines and, report to the UK tax authorities. so effectivly, as i understand it, the UK rules on taking the benefits apply during this period and this will include the new age rule.

From what I understand the age when you can start taking the benefits from Qrops (out of Guernsey) increases to 55 on the 1st April this year.

Also in terms of the "5 year rule" the QROPS does not have to be in place for 5 years, but the holder has to have been a non uk tax resident for 5 years previous.

I understood previously that fund had to be in place for 5 years but have had this clarified from a qrops provider in Guernsey.

[manhattan55]

While we are on the subject does anyone know if the Guernsey juristiction will be working on a retirement age of 50 after April or will they be on 55 yrs ie. the same as the UK.

This seems to be a bit of a grey area so perhaps someone could clarify.

Thanks

I am not sure of the complete answer to this but remember,in any event, for the first five years of the life of the fund your provider has to comply with uk guidelines and, report to the UK tax authorities. so effectivly, as i understand it, the UK rules on taking the benefits apply during this period and this will include the new age rule.

From what I understand the age when you can start taking the benefits from Qrops (out of Guernsey) increases to 55 on the 1st April this year.

Also in terms of the "5 year rule" the QROPS does not have to be in place for 5 years, but the holder has to have been a non uk tax resident for 5 years previous.

I understood previously that fund had to be in place for 5 years but have had this clarified from a qrops provider in Guernsey.

Hope I am not interjecting here with a dumb point, but why would Guernsey be different from the UK in terms of the new age rule? I took early retirement in 2008 (UK) and just squeeked in under the old age rule (50 years). The new age rule became effective sometime in the 2nd quarter of 2009, when early retirement age jumped to 55.

[churchill]

While we are on the subject does anyone know if the Guernsey juristiction will be working on a retirement age of 50 after April or will they be on 55 yrs ie. the same as the UK.

This seems to be a bit of a grey area so perhaps someone could clarify.

Thanks

I am not sure of the complete answer to this but remember,in any event, for the first five years of the life of the fund your provider has to comply with uk guidelines and, report to the UK tax authorities. so effectivly, as i understand it, the UK rules on taking the benefits apply during this period and this will include the new age rule.

From what I understand the age when you can start taking the benefits from Qrops (out of Guernsey) increases to 55 on the 1st April this year.

Also in terms of the "5 year rule" the QROPS does not have to be in place for 5 years, but the holder has to have been a non uk tax resident for 5 years previous.

I understood previously that fund had to be in place for 5 years but have had this clarified from a qrops provider in Guernsey.

Hope I am not interjecting here with a dumb point, but why would Guernsey be different from the UK in terms of the new age rule? I took early retirement in 2008 (UK) and just squeeked in under the old age rule (50 years). The new age rule became effective sometime in the 2nd quarter of 2009, when early retirement age jumped to 55.

If you are over 50 and under 55 you have until the end of this tax year , about 3 weeks , to opt to take out 25% of your QROPS fund / otherwise you have to wait until 55 /