Uk Settlement Visa For A Thai Wife

[Andrew Hicks]

To simplify it, can I ask this question hypothetically.

A British husband and his Thai wife have been living together in Thailand for some years.

Wanting to go and live together in UK, they intend to apply for a settlement visa for her.

This appears to be covered by Immigration Rules, rule 281. However, this rule says that the wife must be seeking leave to enter as the spouse of a person present and settled in the UK etc or of a person who has a right of abode in the UK and is on the same occasion seeking admission to the UK for the purposes of settlement.

It is so convoluted that it's hard to understand... but it does not seem to include a Thai wife seeking entry and settlement as spouse of a British person who is not currently present and settled in the UK.

Is this a problem for the hypothetical couple or have I missed something?

Any help much appreciated.

Andrew Hicks

[knortyboy]

My understanding of that is, if the man is British he has right of abode so can apply for a settlement visa for his wife.

[7by7]

of a person who has a right of abode in the UK and* is on the same occasion seeking admission to the UK for the purposes of settlement.

*Not 'and,' it's 'or.' Persons who have a right of abode in the UK do not have to seek entry clearance to enter the UK.

See this thread.

[imaneggspurt]

Hi andrew, i had this very situation 5 years ago, i had been living in thailand for 3 years, this is the bit that matters " right of abode in the UK" ,which as a british subject you do,.we got a fiance visa easy,.had to show proof of residence intended, and i had a letter of a job offer, was easy peasy, i have to say they do move the goalposts now and then and i recommend you go on line and check ,but id say its not a problem,

[Andrew Hicks]

of a person who has a right of abode in the UK and* is on the same occasion seeking admission to the UK for the purposes of settlement.

*Not 'and,' it's 'or.' Persons who have a right of abode in the UK do not have to seek entry clearance to enter the UK.

See this thread.

Thanks 7by7.

Yes, you're right... it's OR not AND.

But if you go back to the wording of 281(1)(a), it allows for settlement only where the (British) spouse is present and settled in the UK.

It does not include the situation where the British spouse is settled abroad with the visa applicant but intends to travel back to settle in UK with her.

Any further thoughts?

Andrew

[Eff1n2ret]

This appears to be covered by Immigration Rules, rule 281. However, this rule says that the wife must be seeking leave to enter as the spouse of a person present and settled in the UK etc or of a person who has a right of abode in the UK and is on the same occasion seeking admission to the UK for the purposes of settlement.

Andrew Hicks

Rule 281 doesn't mention "a person who has a right of abode" - simply a person present and settled, or seeking admission to the UK on the same occasion for the purposes of settlement.

The word "admission" covers both passengers who require Leave to Enter, and those who don't, such as British Citizens and EEA nationals. We all in effect "seek admission" on arrival in the UK, because the law requires us to produce a passport proving our status, and empowers an Immigration Officer to examine it.

Ergo, a Brit. Cit. and his foreign wife who decide to go and live in the UK will, for the purpose of getting her a visa, have to show that he is intending to do so as well as she.

I can't see what's convoluted about that.

[orchidofsiam]

A British Citizen is automatically treated as settled in the UK as soon as he arrives in the UK. 'Settled' only means that the person has no restriction on his remaining in the UK.

[Eff1n2ret]

A British Citizen is automatically treated as settled in the UK as soon as he arrives in the UK. 'Settled' only means that the person has no restriction on his remaining in the UK.

I don't disagree with that, bearing in mind that "settled" covers people with ILR as well as Right of Abode.

The OP is trying to infer some meaning from the Rules relating to LTE as a spouse to suggest that the Rules are hard to understand and that there is no provision for the spouse of a Brit. Cit. when they have been previously living together abroad and are relocating to the UK, which is nonsense.

[orchidofsiam]

A British Citizen is automatically treated as settled in the UK as soon as he arrives in the UK. 'Settled' only means that the person has no restriction on his remaining in the UK.

I don't disagree with that, bearing in mind that "settled" covers people with ILR as well as Right of Abode.

The OP is trying to infer some meaning from the Rules relating to LTE as a spouse to suggest that the Rules are hard to understand and that there is no provision for the spouse of a Brit. Cit. when they have been previously living together abroad and are relocating to the UK, which is nonsense.

As the OP mentioned a stay in Thailand of some years it should probably be pointed out that a holder of ILR who remains outside the UK for 24 or more months will stand to have ILR revoked. British Citizenship cannot be revoked.

[Andrew Hicks]

A British Citizen is automatically treated as settled in the UK as soon as he arrives in the UK. 'Settled' only means that the person has no restriction on his remaining in the UK.

I don't disagree with that, bearing in mind that "settled" covers people with ILR as well as Right of Abode.

The OP is trying to infer some meaning from the Rules relating to LTE as a spouse to suggest that the Rules are hard to understand and that there is no provision for the spouse of a Brit. Cit. when they have been previously living together abroad and are relocating to the UK, which is nonsense.

Thank you for suggesting that my query is nonsense.

If you actually read Rule 281 you will see that it clearly says that the prior requirement for an applicant applying for a settlement visa is that 'the applicant is married to a person present and settled in the UK".

My Thai wife cannot therefore apply because I am settled in Thailand and not [at the time of the application] settled and present in UK.

Nor am I on 'the same occasion being admitted for settlement'. Foreigers are 'admitted for settlement', not Brits.

The answer suggested on another post that I produce some evidence that I will be settled and present is probably correct but it doesn't fit the clear wording of the Rule. Thanks for this courteous advice.

Andrew

[sumrit]

A British Citizen is automatically treated as settled in the UK as soon as he arrives in the UK. 'Settled' only means that the person has no restriction on his remaining in the UK.

I don't disagree with that, bearing in mind that "settled" covers people with ILR as well as Right of Abode.

The OP is trying to infer some meaning from the Rules relating to LTE as a spouse to suggest that the Rules are hard to understand and that there is no provision for the spouse of a Brit. Cit. when they have been previously living together abroad and are relocating to the UK, which is nonsense.

Thank you for suggesting that my query is nonsense.

If you actually read Rule 281 you will see that it clearly says that the prior requirement for an applicant applying for a settlement visa is that 'the applicant is married to a person present and settled in the UK".

My Thai wife cannot therefore apply because I am settled in Thailand and not [at the time of the application] settled and present in UK.

Nor am I on 'the same occasion being admitted for settlement'. Foreigers are 'admitted for settlement', not Brits.

The answer suggested on another post that I produce some evidence that I will be settled and present is probably correct but it doesn't fit the clear wording of the Rule. Thanks for this courteous advice.

Andrew

I haven't actually read rule 281 myself but I can tell you that British Citizens returning to the UK after living abroad for several years haven't had any visas for their spouses/children refused because they're not 'present and settled in the UK'.

My wife and daughter received their settlement visas three months ago when I had been living in Thailand for four years, I know of another person who has been living in Thailand for over eight years whose wife recently received her visa and if you read through the 'Settlement Visa' thread that has been running for the last six months on this forum you will see that several people have been in a similar position and none have been refused for that reason.

What you will have to do is provide the same documentary evidence as somebody living in the UK. If you're living in Thailand with your wife 'proof of your relationship' is easier to show but probably the most difficult is accomodation in the UK and finance. Adequate finance can be savings, a current income or a job offer (or a combination of all three) and you must show you have adequate accomodation available to you in the UK.

[7by7]

Mr. Hicks, you are not making a mountain out of a molehill; because there is no molehill!

The rule is worded as it is because the foreign spouse of a British citizen living abroad cannot apply for settlement in the UK if their spouse is not coming with them. As with all legal documents, the wording can be a little confusing to a lay person, as it is written in legalese, not English. Which is why the UKBA produce entry clearance guidance to aid ECOs, who are not lawyers, in interpreting the rules.

SET3.4 What is 'present and settled'?

'Present and settled' means that the sponsor is either:

• settled in the UK and, at the same time that an application under the Immigration Rules is made, is physically present in the UK; or,
  
• is coming to the UK with or to join the applicant and intends to make the UK their home with the applicant if the application is successful.
  

'Settled' is defined in paragraph 6 of HC395 and means “free from any restriction on the period for which he / she may remain in the UK, and ordinarily resident in the UK”..........

..........Strictly speaking, a British citizen who has been resident abroad but who returns to the United Kingdom to live is not ‘admitted for settlement’. However, if he/she expresses the intention of returning to the United Kingdom to reside, the ECO can regard him/her as present and settled in the UK.

All you need to do, as previously advised, is show that you are both coming to the UK to settle. Many couples have done this, and your wife will not be refused because you are currently not living in the UK!

[orchidofsiam]

Mr. Hicks I am sure nobody considers your question to be 'nonsense.' All that is happening is that you are thinking of 'settled' in the sense of having security such as a home, job, car etc in the country. However in immigration law 'settled' only means that you have no time restriction on how long you can remain in a country. As a UK Citizen there is no time limit as to how long you can remain in the UK therefore you are automatically settled there.

[steve187]

How many years have they been married and living abroad, as this makes a difference to the type of settlement visa issued see this taken from a visa web site - Initially visas for spouse immigration are issued for a two year period. After this time, a person can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) commonly known as permanent residency in the UK. In some cases, settlement entry clearance may be granted allowing a partner to stay in the country permanently; however, this is only applicable to a person who has been married and living abroad with their spouse for four years at the time they apply for entry to the UK.