Don't Impose Isa, Pheu Thai Warns

[Jingthing]

Cabinet to invoke ISA Tuesday

The Cabinet will Tuesday invoke the Internal Security Act (ISA) in preparation for the planned rally by the red shirts on Saturday to mark the 2006 coup's third anniversary, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Monday.

He said the Cabinet would decide about the time and place for the law to be enforced.

-- The Nation 2009/09/14

Off we go again.

A supposedly democratically supported government invoking a law that essentially suspends laws. A wonderful contradiction.

I think you will find most world governments reacting in an similar manner to violent attacks led by criminal fugitive demagogues. No Thaksin, no ISA, its simple. In my country, after the Black Songkran burning buses, attack on the Asean conference, Molotov cocktails, and attacks on the prime minister, the entire Thaksin cult would have been labeled TERRORIST and dealt with accordingly. Why they aren't here I don't really comprehend. The fact that they indeed are allowed to rally peacefully, and indeed they are, shows a very measured tolerant response to an obviously toxic agenda.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Jingthing

[Thai at Heart]

Cabinet to invoke ISA Tuesday

The Cabinet will Tuesday invoke the Internal Security Act (ISA) in preparation for the planned rally by the red shirts on Saturday to mark the 2006 coup's third anniversary, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Monday.

He said the Cabinet would decide about the time and place for the law to be enforced.

-- The Nation 2009/09/14

Off we go again.

A supposedly democratically supported government invoking a law that essentially suspends laws. A wonderful contradiction.

I think you will find most world governments reacting in an similar manner to violent attacks led by criminal fugitive demagogues. No Thaksin, no ISA, its simple.

Is he going to be there, I might go and watch.

Is this most countries like China with Falung Gong and Tibetan protests and things like that?

A law like this, should not be invoked until a law has been broken, not as some kind of one stop shop to "prevent' things and happening.

[Jingthing]

The thing already happened. It was called Black Songkran.

[animatic]

Sensibly take on the situation and why this ISA is so dangerous.

http://bangkokpost.net/opinion/opinion/238...aw-must-prevail

The root problem is that when a crowd goes wild, when a mob destroys property,

when a speaker at a rally calls for an action that clearly violates public order, no law is broken.

The police have no legal power to stop a rampaging mob from taking to the street

and committing the sort of violence that Pattaya and then Bangkok witnessed during the Songkran holidays last April.

Police absurdly have to try to prosecute such law-breakers

under laws like the Traffic Management Act, or the Cleanliness Act,

as if the worst act of violent mobs is to walk against a red light,

or leave litter on the pathways.

Yes since there is not properly written laws for this eventuality,

Then there is no choice but to use an over-written one.

It is an emergency law, and 100,000 rioters with

renegade army units would constitute an emergency.

The obvious answer is for the government to sponsor

an actual crowd-control law, and for parliament to debate and pass it.

It should be an interesting debate, perhaps with public hearings,

on how the right to free speech and public rallies can balance

the right of the public to travel and not be inconvenienced by mob action.

The problem for this weekend is.. ain't time to do this in....

And though it DOES rescind several rights, it's just IN SOME AREAS< but NOT NATION WIDE...

It also is withdrawn and nothing says this is an ongoing thing.

One question is prosecution afterwards. Anyone arrested under the ISA

will be guilty under that act, but that so far has not been tested,

nor are specific fines or incarcerations delineated.

But this would be not dissimilar to Martial Law in an limited trouble spot.

This is done to stop looting and general anarchy and such in most nations,

and then rescinded.

There are two recent instances of the ISA going into effect and nothing went bad,

as was it's hoped for intent, lets hope fines and sentences are not an issue again.

Yes the THING has already happened.

But if the choice is:

100,000 red rioters, and renegade army units, try and re-coup the country.

Or seem likely to try... we let them just destroy the place.

or

A too strong law is used to prevent it... well the old wives homelies appllies:

A stitch in time saves nine, Foresight is better and cheaper than hindsight.

He who doesn't learn from history is doomed to repeat it.

If there is a reasonable expectation of a crime about to be committed it is proper to prevent it.

Edited September 14, 2009 by animatic

[Publicus]

Cabinet to invoke ISA Tuesday

The Cabinet will Tuesday invoke the Internal Security Act (ISA) in preparation for the planned rally by the red shirts on Saturday to mark the 2006 coup's third anniversary, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Monday.

He said the Cabinet would decide about the time and place for the law to be enforced.

-- The Nation 2009/09/14

Off we go again.

A supposedly democratically supported government invoking a law that essentially suspends laws before any laws have been broken. A wonderful contradiction.

The effective date of the ISA doesn't suspend any laws and per se won't. The ISA would be APPLIED only if, for instance, the forshadowings which have occurred during the past several days actually manifest. Chaiyasit's vocal and treasonous call for a military mutiny is one such forshadowing.

Should the reds carry on true to form, the ISA then could be applied. Same regardless of which group might initiate violent revolution against the Kingdom. It would be the Thai application of the "clear and present danger' standard in the US (which hasn't ever been used against a group or organization, only the odd individual or small smattering of individuals here or there over the several score years the doctrine has existed).

Let's not overstate the authorization of the ISA to further inflame an already volitile situation.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Publicus

[noithip]

Is he going to be there, I might go and watch.

Is this most countries like China with Falung Gong and Tibetan protests and things like that?

A law like this, should not be invoked until a law has been broken, not as some kind of one stop shop to "prevent' things and happening.

1. You should go! Since you know what the ISA means, at least you are prepared. (the villagers most prob. have no idea!)

2. TROLL TROLL TROLL !

3. A law like this shouldn't be invoked until the bloody red shirts gain control of central Bangkok? Good idea!

[Thai at Heart]

Cabinet to invoke ISA Tuesday

The Cabinet will Tuesday invoke the Internal Security Act (ISA) in preparation for the planned rally by the red shirts on Saturday to mark the 2006 coup's third anniversary, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Monday.

He said the Cabinet would decide about the time and place for the law to be enforced.

-- The Nation 2009/09/14

Off we go again.

A supposedly democratically supported government invoking a law that essentially suspends laws before any laws have been broken. A wonderful contradiction.

The effective date of the ISA doesn't suspend any laws and per se won't. The ISA would be APPLIED only if, for instance, the forshadowings which have occurred during the past several days actually manifest. Chaiyasit's vocal and treasonous call for a military mutiny is one such forshadowing.

Should the reds carry on true to form, the ISA then could be applied. Same regardless of which group might initiate violent revolution against the Kingdom. It would be the Thai application of the "clear and present danger' standard in the US (which hasn't ever been used against a group or organization, only the odd individual or small smattering of individuals here or there over the several score years the doctrine has existed).

Let's not overstate the authorization of the ISA to further inflame an already volitile situation.

It removes several very important legal rights and essentially puts the army in charge and in some ways above the law in a given area. It is not an issue about whether the ISA is "employed", it will already be in force for a given time and and given place. An army commander will be able to carry out his duties and force government officials to follow his orders as he sees fit, with little or no legal recourse for his conduct.

Those arrested/captured for breaking the ISA could also be subject to trials different from the norm.

It is essentially creating a military area in the centre of the city with different rules and laws to other parts of the country. It allows arbitrary power to be used without judgement.

All in all not something that should be used lightly and in my opinion, should not be used as anything but absolute last resort

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/11/04/thai...nd-human-rights

Human Rights Watch expressed concern about other provisions in the draft ISA, including:

Article 17, allowing the ISOC director to take command of state agencies by “issuing a notification commanding state officials not to perform any act or to perform any act” to the extent that this is necessary for preventing, suppressing, stopping, and rectifying any situation that affects internal security. This is a blank check to override all laws and human rights protections.

Article 18, allowing the ISOC director and designated officials to undertake criminal investigators without providing any safeguards or judicial oversight of summons, arrests and detentions. Among other due process concerns, this heightens the risk of torture and other mistreatment of individuals in custody or while under interrogation.

Article 19, allowing the ISOC director and designated officials to act as criminal investigation officials and have powers similar to those of public prosecutors and judges. They are given the authority to sentence any person found involved in a threat to internal security to attend re-education camps for up to six months. The draft does not state where such camps will be set up or under whose authority (civilian or military). This provision will allow for arbitrary incommunicado detention in undisclosed or inaccessible places where independent monitoring is impossible. It also sidesteps the protections in Thailand’s criminal justice system.

Article 22, an attempt to legislate impunity for human rights violations by removing the jurisdiction of the Administrative Court and its procedures to address human rights violations committed by state officials. The Administrative Court is currently the most important forum to address human rights violations in Thailand.

Article 23, which similarly places unnecessary limitations on the ability of victims of human rights violations to use civil, criminal, or administrative remedies to gain redress.

Article 17, allowing unnecessary restrictions, without a definite timeframe, on the fundamental rights to freedom of expression, assembly, association, and movement.

[frodo]

The root problem is that when a crowd goes wild, when a mob destroys property, when a speaker at a rally calls for an action that clearly violates public order, no law is broken. The police have no legal power to stop a rampaging mob from taking to the street and committing the sort of violence that Pattaya and then Bangkok witnessed during the Songkran holidays last April. Police absurdly have to try to prosecute such law-breakers under laws like the Traffic Management Act, or the Cleanliness Act, as if the worst act of violent mobs is to walk against a red light, or leave litter on the pathways.

When the ISA is invoked, authorities gain the power to decide when a mob is getting out of hand, and to deal with leaders who are inciting the group, or with violent members who are destroying property or attacking other people. The problem is that the actual rule of law is suspended. Soldiers replace police, military officers take the part of judges, and lawyers are not allowed to attend to the civil and legal rights of anyone who is detained.

No laws are broken when property is destroyed, violence committed against others or rampaging mobs? In short, Black Songkran was a legal right of the people?

This writer complains that actual law is suspended when ISA is employed. How can there be actual law when he states there is no law to begin with.

If this is true, good for the authorities for doing something to safeguard the city and the inhabitants.

[animatic]

Where is the actual translation of the actual text of the ISA?

Vs

This summation of the HRW interpretation.

It doesn't read like a state document,

it reads like someone is trying to make a point.

In contrast...

I would rather be safe in my home with my family and not burned out or killed,

in exchange for a temporary loss of some freedoms in an emergency situation.

The only ones who should be worried are those causing trouble ,

or joining those with a high likely hood of causing trouble.

While I find HRW a laudable endeavor, I still would rather be safe from harm,

than worried about a week not being able to speak sedition in Sanam Luang.

Cue the famous Ben Franklion quote.

Ignoring the fact ole Ben was part of a revolutionary cable himself.

Edited September 14, 2009 by animatic

[Publicus]

It removes several very important legal rights and essentially puts the army in charge and in some ways above the law in a given area. It is not an issue about whether the ISA is "employed", it will already be in force for a given time and and given place. An army commander will be able to carry out his duties and force government officials to follow his orders as he sees fit, with little or no legal recourse for his conduct.

Those arrested/captured for breaking the ISA could also be subject to trials different from the norm.

It is essentially creating a military area in the centre of the city with different rules and laws to other parts of the country. It allows arbitrary power to be used without judgement.

All in all not something that should be used lightly and in my opinion, should not be used as anything but absolute last resort

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/11/04/thai...nd-human-rights

Human Rights Watch expressed concern about other provisions in the draft ISA, including:

Article 17, allowing the ISOC director to take command of state agencies by "issuing a notification commanding state officials not to perform any act or to perform any act" to the extent that this is necessary for preventing, suppressing, stopping, and rectifying any situation that affects internal security. This is a blank check to override all laws and human rights protections.

Article 18, allowing the ISOC director and designated officials to undertake criminal investigators without providing any safeguards or judicial oversight of summons, arrests and detentions. Among other due process concerns, this heightens the risk of torture and other mistreatment of individuals in custody or while under interrogation.

Article 19, allowing the ISOC director and designated officials to act as criminal investigation officials and have powers similar to those of public prosecutors and judges. They are given the authority to sentence any person found involved in a threat to internal security to attend re-education camps for up to six months. The draft does not state where such camps will be set up or under whose authority (civilian or military). This provision will allow for arbitrary incommunicado detention in undisclosed or inaccessible places where independent monitoring is impossible. It also sidesteps the protections in Thailand's criminal justice system.

Article 22, an attempt to legislate impunity for human rights violations by removing the jurisdiction of the Administrative Court and its procedures to address human rights violations committed by state officials. The Administrative Court is currently the most important forum to address human rights violations in Thailand.

Article 23, which similarly places unnecessary limitations on the ability of victims of human rights violations to use civil, criminal, or administrative remedies to gain redress.

Article 17, allowing unnecessary restrictions, without a definite timeframe, on the fundamental rights to freedom of expression, assembly, association, and movement.

An army commander CAN exercise such discretion. That's the nature of the beast in Thailand--TiT. You don't like the law, change it by parliamentary processes. How long has the Infernal Security Act been in existence? What have you and cohorts done to try to change it? That is, not exclusively to your benefit but in the interests of Thai stability, progress and democracy?

BTW, kindly advise me if army commanders begin to drag citizens out of their beds in pre-dawn raids. I have the sense you're going to be silent in this regard during the leadup to Sept 19 and after.

When has Human Rights Watch stated its support of violent thug groups and organizations that have had a prominent leader in parliament openly call for an unconstitutional and always illegal military mutiny (Chaiyasit)? When has HRW endorsed a deposed fugitive convict PM who has openly on his mobile phone screeched "revolution" whilst his operatives and functionaries assaulted a venue in Thailand attended by leaders of foreign governments of the region who consequently had to be evacuated from the roof by helicopter?

Yes, it's disengenous to cite HRW around these parts when violent forces are openly threatening the stability, security and sovereignty of the state and when HRW hasn't nor would it under the present situation or circumstances state concerns about such mutineers. Perhaps afterward, but not presently.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Publicus

[Thai at Heart]

An army commander CAN exercise such discretion. That's the nature of the beast in Thailand--TiT. You don't like the law, change it by parliamentary processes. How long has the Infernal Security Act been in existence? What have you and cohorts done to try to change it? That is, not exclusively to your benefit but in the interests of Thai stability, progress and democracy?

BTW, kindly advise me if army commanders begin to drag citizens out of their beds in pre-dawn raids. I have the sense you're going to be silent in this regard during the leadup to Sept 19 and after.

When has Human Rights Watch stated its support of violent thug groups and organizations that have had a prominent leader in parliament openly call for an unconstitutional and always illegal military mutiny (Chaiyasit)? When has HRW endorsed a deposed fugitive convict PM who has openly on his mobile phone screeched "revolution" whilst his operatives and functionaries assaulted a venue in Thailand attended by leaders of foreign governments of the region who consequently had to be evacuated from the roof by helicopter?

Yes, it's disengenous to cite HRW around these parts when violent forces are openly threatening the stability, security and sovereignty of the state and when HRW hasn't nor would it under the present situation or circumstances state concerns about such mutineers. Perhaps afterward, but not presently.

Reds or yellows have nothing personally to do with me. They are not my cohorts.

I hope that people aren't dragged out of their beds. I would hope that the government have more sense than that. I have never supported the fact that Thaksin has been able to flee, been able to continue broadcasting to the country, or was rather nonsensically allowed to go whilst on bail out of the country. These are absurdities of the highest order.

The issues of today are not going to be solved by violent protest any more than they are by the army getting involved in suppressing protest by force. I don't like the army being on the street, any more than I like violent protest. I like even less the army being given legal impunity to act as it deems fit on a bi-weekly basis. They have proven to be divided and self serving over the years and I do not trust that this piece of legislation may not be abused.

This law should not be used like this, and other legislation should be created to deal with these types of protests.

HRW, or any other of the organisations that made comments about the ISA at the time that it was created stated that it had the potential to be used to supress human rights, freedom of speech, democracy and entrench the power of the army. There have been many articles written about it.

Would you prefer Prachathai discussions

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/56

or the International Commission of Jurists

http://www.icj.org/IMG/Doc2_ISA_Comments_FINAL2.pdf

The draft Internal Security Act is subject to similar criticisms, but raises even

greater concerns, as, similar to the Communist Activities Control Acts (1952 – 1979),

special powers would be given to the Royal Army Commander to use in the whole

of Thailand at anytime, and not only in sensitive areas or at times of genuine

emergency.

The powers of the Director of ISOC would undermine a core element of the rule of

law: the relationship between the civilian and military authorities. The powers given

to ISOC, such as the responsibility for commanding public servants, would put

civilians under military command. UN bodies, such as the General Assembly, have

consistently called upon states to strengthen the rule of law by ensuring that the

military remains accountable to a democratically elected civilian government.10 The

UN Human Rights Committee has urged states to ensure the primacy of civil and

political authority.11 The structure and powers of ISOC would undermine a key

part of the ‘principle of legality’, which is essential for ensuring human rights; that is,

the military should be subordinate to civilian authorities.

Hardly a step forward is it.

I didn't quote the article from HRW for any other reason than it defines clearly the issues of concern. This act was tacked into legislation during the military period in power and was posed as something that was to be used rarely if ever. Now it is coming in to use very regularly.

I hope that the government of the day, gets together and finds a way to get rid of the ISA and form another type of law concerning crowd controls and protests in a way that will provide for more transparency.

But then, those mild cynics around here some would believe that politicians rarely if ever bite the hand that feeds them.

Edit because I found admittedly an unofficial translation of the Draft Act

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp...07inenglish.pdf

Edited September 14, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[animatic]

Righty O , but as Publicus asked.

What have you and your cohorts done to help instigate a proper set of laws to make this not needed?

He said NOTHING about reds or yellows or blues,

just about helping to create laws to make using this ISA unneeded.

[Thai at Heart]

Righty O , but as Publicus asked.

What have you and your cohorts done to help instigate a proper set of laws to make this not needed?

He said NOTHING about reds or yellows or blues,

just about helping to create laws to make using this ISA unneeded.

Create proper laws. Which country are we sitting in right now? When does anyone have anytime to legislate anything these days? Political debate has been reduced to point scoring and finger pointing. What do any of them stand for anymore? Ideology, manifestos. Do those words even translate in modern Thai politics or language?

As long as this current government sits, I would doubt they will do anything to change this law. I don't see the current government being able to clip the wings of the army by even the tiniest feather. Deep down I doubt Abhisit likes this law very much, but what can he do?

I would believe it would probably be one of the first pieces of legislation heading for the shredder should a change of government happen.

As for changing it, I'll mention it to the local MP the next time I play golf with him.

Since voting for things amongst the public these days seems to be out of fashion, I could however march single handedly to Government House in a neutrally coloured T-shirt (any colours left) to protest the ISA with a sandwich board. But I would probably be deemed a danger to national security, and you wouldn't have to put up with my dulcid prose any more.

[Publicus]

The need to replace the ISA is recognized by the great majority of forumists, or so I should think, but which of any one of possible governments forseeably could replace it? Given the volatility of Thai politics and government past present and future, which government in power would want to surrender the one decisive tool it has to protect and preserve itself?

There just isn't any change on the horizon of Thai politics and government that would enable any government to feel socioeconomically stable and secure enuff to kill the ISA to replace it with something more modern, moderate and enlightened.

All Thai realpolitik militates against it, regardless of whether the particular government in power has the self identity of representing the elites or the population. In all reality any given government selfishly needs and will continue to need self protection against the other guys out of power.

Both the yellows and the reds have enjoyed and become attached to the power and strength of their collective mass actions of recent years so they aren't about to go back to the farm or, regardless of the color of their particular collar, the factory or office.

Consequently there are few if any indicators that Thailand anytime soon will make a peace with itself. Hence the ISA sadly will continue to be useful to governments for a considerable time to come.

Meanwhile you're just gonna have to continue to enjoy your golf game with your MP.

[Plus]

Create proper laws. Which country are we sitting in right now? When does anyone have anytime to legislate anything these days? Political debate has been reduced to point scoring and finger pointing. What do any of them stand for anymore? Ideology, manifestos. Do those words even translate in modern Thai politics or language?

As long as this current government sits,....

Errmmmm, not trying to offend, but if you blame Democrats for lowering standards of lawmakers work, and support reds idea of putting these same politicians in charge of country's political reform, you are either dangerously naive, or deliberately destructive.

Blaming politicians is what yellows, do, btw. Reds worship them with their electoral democracy.

[Thai at Heart]

Create proper laws. Which country are we sitting in right now? When does anyone have anytime to legislate anything these days? Political debate has been reduced to point scoring and finger pointing. What do any of them stand for anymore? Ideology, manifestos. Do those words even translate in modern Thai politics or language?

As long as this current government sits,....

Errmmmm, not trying to offend, but if you blame Democrats for lowering standards of lawmakers work, and support reds idea of putting these same politicians in charge of country's political reform, you are either dangerously naive, or deliberately destructive.

Blaming politicians is what yellows, do, btw. Reds worship them with their electoral democracy.

Did I say I support the reds. Did I say I blame the Dems?

The entire system is the problem and will continue to be for a long time to come. As we are so regularly reminded, it is a Thai system.

And we still can't buy beer a single between 2 and 5pm but 2 cases are permitted.

Now there's a crazy law if ever there was one, but it will still be on the books when we are old and grey. The least legislators can do is to update existing laws to make them work, or get rid of them altogether.

[swifty5x5]

All you ISA lovers should go live in Burma. you would feel more at home.

the people have a right to protest peacefully.

"Key" word, pun intended, peacefully. I have not seen red or yellow do this yet.

[animatic]

All you ISA lovers should go live in Burma. you would feel more at home.

the people have a right to protest peacefully.

"Key" word, pun intended, peacefully. I have not seen red or yellow do this yet.

mc2 have you actual been to Burma, and not just across the border for a visa run?

I spent a solid 2 weeks and 2,500 km there this year.

The difference is night and day, INCLUDING with this ISA in force.

Thais can still protest,

but woe to those that turn protests into violence.

Edited September 15, 2009 by animatic

[mc2]

All you ISA lovers should go live in Burma. you would feel more at home.

the people have a right to protest peacefully.

"Key" word, pun intended, peacefully. I have not seen red or yellow do this yet.

this looks peaceful enough to me

@animatic, no i havnt been to burma , and i don't want thailand to go down this path, that's why i shake my head at those who put their support behind the military, one of the main groups in thailand that are undermining democracy .

[Plus]

Did I say I support the reds. Did I say I blame the Dems?

You said "As long as this current government sits,"

This is a clear "red" take on things.

[animatic]

one of the main groups in thailand that are undermining democracy .

Ah yes,

besides the politicians.

And the vote buyers.

And the police who keep order so well.

And the local mafias controlling their areas.

And the people wanting a coup to bring back Thaksin.

[Samuian]

This short Excerpt from the Bangkok Post says it plain an simply all:

The ISA is a draconian action, putting all law enforcement in the hands of the Internal Security Operations Command - in effect, the army.

In fact, the ISA was advertised by its sponsors in 2007 as a measure that might never be used, but one which should be available to the government in case of massive civil disorder. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is likely to invoke the ISA this weekend for a second time even though there is no actual threat of violence. One may disagree with the premier's decision, but in the face of a large, hostile and unpredictable crowd, the government can argue it has little choice.

I don't know about the word "draconian" being used...or pertaining to, also rigorous; unusually severe or cruel.

Well there is no cruelty so far in implementing this code, it's purpose is, if implemented, to prevent excess and bloodshed ...besides the word "draconian" used, points to "very harsh" measures, as we understand today, but never the less "Drakon" was the one who laid down the first (known) written civil Code or constitution of Athen's from a only spoken "law of conduct" so that no one would be unaware of them, they were posted on wooden tablets, where they were preserved for almost two centuries, on steles of the shape of three-sided pyramids!

"SO NO ONE WOULD BE UNAWARE OF THEM.."!

That is what basically the ISA is all about, everyone knows, "Don't cross the line"!

Is easy isn't it - civil society cannot allow mob - rule especially as in this case where someone tries very hard to revers history!

It's to prevent, contain expected unrest, violence from certain political parties and to protect law and order for the sake of the majority of the citizens of this country!

He and his entourage can tell and broadcast whatever they want, it's another matter if all of the audience is convinced or even believes in his sermon!

edited to correct..

Edited September 15, 2009 by Samuian

[ThNiner]

Off we go again.

A supposedly democratically supported government invoking a law that essentially suspends laws. A wonderful contradiction.

I think you will find most world governments reacting in an similar manner to violent attacks led by criminal fugitive demagogues. No Thaksin, no ISA, its simple. In my country, after the Black Songkran burning buses, attack on the Asean conference, Molotov cocktails, and attacks on the prime minister, the entire Thaksin cult would have been labeled TERRORIST and dealt with accordingly. Why they aren't here I don't really comprehend. The fact that they indeed are allowed to rally peacefully, and indeed they are, shows a very measured tolerant response to an obviously toxic agenda.