Double tier pricing at hospitals in thailand

[jackr]

it's ONLY Thai I've EVER seen give money to children begging in the street.  Couldn't tell you the last time I saw a foreigner do it.  When my Thai friends do it they consider it a way of making merit.  Most foreigners are too jaded towards beggars... but should really stop and realize this child probably isn't going to take that money to go buy alcohol and drugs,they are genuinely hungry.

They consider it a way of making merit? So in actuality they're doing themselves a favour. And perhaps the reason you only ever see Thais giving money to beggars is, in fact, because we're in Thailand and they outweigh us a tad.

Some Thai's will over-charge foreigners, they will over charge Thais as well, if the opportunity presents itself to make a quick profit.

If I walk into a hundred different places of business and a Thai walks into the same one hundred places, I might get over charged in 50 of them and he might get overcharged in 3. I don't see the relevance of this defense.

It is quite clear to me that it is culturally acceptable in Thailand to cheat/over charge farang, but not acceptable to cheat/over charge Thais.

The denial is deafening...

Edited September 14, 2009 by jackr

[jackr]

When I travelled on a bus from Chonburi to Pattaya three years ago, there was a grumpy old Thai woman who was possibly the owner and/or in charge on the bus. She wanted the male conductor to overcharge me, to which he replied "Aren't farang people (-->khon) too?" She answered: Farang mai khon. (Farang are no people.)

Just as you got off you should have addressed her as khon Lao, loud enough for all to hear, and asked her when did her family move to Thailand

[Rionoir]

it's ONLY Thai I've EVER seen give money to children begging in the street. Couldn't tell you the last time I saw a foreigner do it. When my Thai friends do it they consider it a way of making merit. Most foreigners are too jaded towards beggars... but should really stop and realize this child probably isn't going to take that money to go buy alcohol and drugs,they are genuinely hungry.

They consider it a way of making merit? So in actuality they're doing themselves a favour. And perhaps the reason you only ever see Thais giving money to beggars is, in fact, because we're in Thailand and they outweigh us a tad.

And? *chuckle* There are PLENTY of Farang in some areas, it is no different in those areas. Not sure what your point is except that you want to try to make my point less valid with no point of your own.

[Tinkelbell]

When I travelled on a bus from Chonburi to Pattaya three years ago, there was a grumpy old Thai woman who was possibly the owner and/or in charge on the bus. She wanted the male conductor to overcharge me, to which he replied "Aren't farang people (-->khon) too?" She answered: Farang mai khon. (Farang are no people.)

Just as you got off you should have addressed her as khon Lao, loud enough for all to hear, and asked her when did her family move to Thailand

Better yet call her a 'PRET'.

In Thai folklore, they believe that ' PRET' is the lowest rank among the bad ghosts ( ผี). It says Pret has the mouth the size of a hole of a needle and no place of its own, so it lives the life as a vegabond and always starving.

Because of this, Thais take quite offend if being called 'PRET'.

Note, before start using this word, ask your Thai friend ( preferable he/she from BKK) how to pronounce 'PRET' in a correct way, I want you to sound like a native.

[Heng]

For many folks it's basically "I'll maximize my profit margin without regard as to what your national origin is..." And if a particular group of people are more likely to purchase, less likely to haggle, less price sensitive, less likely to keep cash reserves and are willing to spend their very last coin, then what's wrong with allocating more resources into mining that market segment?

[mizzi39]

For many folks it's basically "I'll maximize my profit margin without regard as to what your national origin is..." And if a particular group of people are more likely to purchase, less likely to haggle, less price sensitive, less likely to keep cash reserves and are willing to spend their very last coin, then what's wrong with allocating more resources into mining that market segment?

Yes, I totally agree. Salesman in the west are trained in this sort of "practice". They look for the vulnerable. No different anywhere in the world. Many people get ripped off because they are not smart consumers to begin with. If you are facing a double pricing issue then don't buy. maybe it is not fair, but life is not fair. The good thing about Thailand is being able to haggle for things, which is totally lacking in the West. Being a good haggler can save you "tons" of baht..

I have never had an issue here with double pricing. I just show my Thai license, WP or tax ID and pay no different than the Thais whether it is a hospital, national park or the Grand Palace (the Thai price is free ).

I just skimmed the OP's other post and he is obviously very frustrated. he is either very new and naive to Thailand, or he is an old timer whose time has come to head back to the fatherland.

[carmine]

Some of you people are really f'ing cheap. LoL Makes me wonder how many of you drop 10 baht once a month in some little child's cup on the footbridge and think you just saved his life.

And just as a follow up, your more likely to step in rocking horse shit than see a Thai hand out the cash, so who is "you people " refering to

You clearly don't know what you are talking about, it's ONLY Thai I've EVER seen give money to children begging in the street. Couldn't tell you the last time I saw a foreigner do it. When my Thai friends do it they consider it a way of making merit. Most foreigners are too jaded towards beggars... but should really stop and realize this child probably isn't going to take that money to go buy alcohol and drugs,they are genuinely hungry.

What are you talking about..."too jaded towards beggars"? Take a step back and listen to yourself. We should realise the child isn't going to buy drugs, alcohol!! You thoughts i'm afraid sound somewhat retarded

[KevinBloodyWilson]

if nothing else, Im changing the title of this topic

the original title "thais dont treat non-thais as equal human beings' is way over the top exaggeration.

if you want to discuss double tier pricing, then call it that

do not bring human rights into it

double tier pricing ofcourse has been done and overdone again and again on this forum.

but so be it

Probably because it keeps happening.

[mmushr00m]

After 3 pages and 68 post, I am still looking for the info....which hospital?

If its a govt hospital you probably pay more as I dont think you qualify for the govt subsidised health care thingy.

[DonJuanDemarco]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about, it's ONLY Thai I've EVER seen give money to children begging in the street. Couldn't tell you the last time I saw a foreigner do it.

I thought you just did?

You seem like a really really smart guy, Rio.

[DonJuanDemarco]

I just skimmed the OP's other post and he is obviously very frustrated. he is either very new and naive to Thailand, or he is an old timer whose time has come to head back to the fatherland.

No, not really frustrated, more so curious. I would say that I am much less naive/delusional than the majority of people/apologists in this thread.

I am sure if we flipped the terms around and a fresh off the boat Isaan Thai was in Heathrow airport and the British cabbie was going to charge him 50 pounds for a cab-fare and the Isaan Thai not knowing any better agreed to it many in this thread would consider the cabby a scum bag and would intervene if necessary.

Anything negative or unethical in Thailand is excused as Thai Culture. When the shoe is on the other foot... well, that is a different story, correct?

[imaneggspurt]

This is 100 per cent true, a friend of mine was quoted 450.000 baht for an operation in pattaya bkk hospital in pattaya,.another friend went there that is a little more clued up and haggled to price to 200,000, this was for a potentially life saving operation,.even these so called up market hospitals are run by scumbags,.

[imaneggspurt]

I just skimmed the OP's other post and he is obviously very frustrated. he is either very new and naive to Thailand, or he is an old timer whose time has come to head back to the fatherland.

No, not really frustrated, more so curious. I would say that I am much less naive/delusional than the majority of people/apologists in this thread.

I am sure if we flipped the terms around and a fresh off the boat Isaan Thai was in Heathrow airport and the British cabbie was going to charge him 50 pounds for a cab-fare and the Isaan Thai not knowing any better agreed to it many in this thread would consider the cabby a scum bag and would intervene if necessary.

Anything negative or unethical in Thailand is excused as Thai Culture. When the shoe is on the other foot... well, that is a different story, correct?

Thai culture, what a lovely translation for rip off !

[Rionoir]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about, it's ONLY Thai I've EVER seen give money to children begging in the street. Couldn't tell you the last time I saw a foreigner do it.

I thought you just did?

You seem like a really really smart guy, Rio.

I just did what?

But thanks for the compliment anyway, I appreciate that.  Keep up the positive contributions.

[DonJuanDemarco]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about, it's ONLY Thai I've EVER seen give money to children begging in the street. Couldn't tell you the last time I saw a foreigner do it.

I thought you just did?

You seem like a really really smart guy, Rio.

I just did what?

But thanks for the compliment anyway, I appreciate that. Keep up the positive contributions.

I have never been to Brazil. I can't remember the last time I have been to Brazil.

Get it, now?

[aussiejosh]

Last week I needed some minor surgery... I went to bumrumgrad, 53,XXX.- Samitijev 58,XXX.- and Bangkok General (where the doctor i felt was far better and actually wanted to find out what was wrong with me) 23,XXX.- Although it was all covered with my insurance anyway I didn't like the treatment I was receiving from the first 2 who just wanted to poke around inside me and not do any diagnosis first. Definitely my first choice of hospital from now on.

[citizen33]

After 3 pages and 68 post, I am still looking for the info....which hospital?

If its a govt hospital you probably pay more as I dont think you qualify for the govt subsidised health care thingy.

It seems to me that the thread is really about the possibility of dual pricing for private charges in either private or public hospitals. A Thai being treated under one of the three main public insurance schemes (social security scheme, civil servant medical benefit scheme, universal coverage scheme) will probably not pay at all - the old 30 baht co=payment was phased out a couple of years ago. Apart from corruption (under the table inducements to physicians), the main way Thais might make a payment is if they transfer to private treatrment half way through. There is also a complicated system of paying for and reclaiming fees for RTAs. Non-Thai citizens are not covered by the UC scheme but may get free care under the social security scheme, if they work and pay contributions. Otherwise one pays privately, even in a public hospital.

[scorecard]

Two points:

1. Would the original OP like to share what hospital(s) he/she is talking about.

2. I've had one experience of farang price, at the pvt hospital in Chonburi city. Had my ears cleaned, went to cashier to pay and was shocked at the high price, Thai son intervened and and said "This is my father, when you adjust this to the standard price we will pay".

The staff were shocked. Lots of whispering and embarrassment and then a supervisor quickly signed something to approve changing the bill.

[carmine]

Two points:

1. Would the original OP like to share what hospital(s) he/she is talking about.

2. I've had one experience of farang price, at the pvt hospital in Chonburi city. Had my ears cleaned, went to cashier to pay and was shocked at the high price, Thai son intervened and and said "This is my father, when you adjust this to the standard price we will pay".

The staff were shocked. Lots of whispering and embarrassment and then a supervisor quickly signed something to approve changing the bill.

I'm pleased to hear you had the price reduced, but this again reinforces my view that they are low life thieving scumbags.

If a Thai needed hospital treatment in my country, for all it's faults, they would be treated and not financially raped

[LooseCannon]

Some Thai's will over-charge foreigners, they will over charge Thais as well, if the opportunity presents itself to make a quick profit.

If I walk into a hundred different places of business and a Thai walks into the same one hundred places, I might get over charged in 50 of them and he might get overcharged in 3. I don't see the relevance of this defense.

It is quite clear to me that it is culturally acceptable in Thailand to cheat/over charge farang, but not acceptable to cheat/over charge Thais.

I don't know where these 100 'places of business' are located, but 50% of your daily transactions? Maybe on a walk between Nana Plaza & Soi Cowboy.

If you spend your time in 'tourist ghettos' you will be overcharged, cheated & scammed (some people more than others).

I chose to spend an absolute minimum amount of time in Bangkok (& always well away from Sukhumvit etc). I do not go to Pattaya, Phuket, Koh Samui or any other so called 'tourist destinations' & as a result of this the Thais that I do meet are friendly & honest, with the odd exception. Basically on par with any other nationality.

Have I been overcharged? Of course I have, but not much more than in Australia.

Have I encountered dishonest Thais? Again, yes of course I have. As above.

Have I been the victim of one or more of the 'hundreds of scams' that are perpetuated on the hapless farang in Thailand - no.

Unless of course you count the time my passport was stolen by an American about 32 years ago.

Everybody that comes to Thailand has a different experience - mine for the most part have been positive.

The people that have problems with being overcharged, cheated, scammed (whether successful or not) need to realize that Thailand is just one step above being a 'third world' country & as such attempting to overcharge etc. is a fact of life. Your priority is to arm yourself with the skills to 'survive' in such a place, if you don't learn & adapt your behavior accordingly, you are destined to spend your time in Thailand as a victim.

As evidenced on this forum many farangs are incapable or unwilling to modify their behavior & seem to conduct themselves as if they are wandering around a supermarket in Bognor Regis or the Butlins holiday camp in Skegness.

If you need to build your 'third world' country skills I suggest spending a couple of months in India.

[DonJuanDemarco]

I would like to hear more opinions on my comparison of a English taxi driver charging a Thai three times the true fare in the UK. If the Thai agrees to it is it just good business on the part of the taxi driver? Why is it that something we consider unethical in our own country somehow becomes ethical in Thailand because its common?

In the case of the doctor at the hospital I visited, he gets too, apparently, write in his "doctor's consultation fee". He choose to charge me more for my 5 minutes with him (90% of which was in Thai language), because

a. I am a farang

b. I am a farang and he thinks I would not find out the real price

c. ?????

The thing is, Thai people care so much about face, but their willingness to attempt to over charge or cheat farangs shows that they do not value our opinion of them whatsoever. A Thai doctor would not want to cheat a Thai because he would lose face doing so. But with a farang, its like, whatever, I don't even look at this creature as a human being so they can think of me as a low life as long as I get my extra 200 baht.

Sometimes I just want to take a bunch of $1 American Bills and throw them into a busy Thai street and watch as they all drop to their knees like they are fighting for the key to the city. Doctors included.

Edited September 15, 2009 by DonJuanDemarco

[Heng]

It's more than double tier pricing. It's discretionary pricing that often has dozens of different prices for the same service and Thais face the same. They also complain about it. In the end though, the hospitals in question are businesses... it's easy to forget that because a good number of people grow up thinking that hospitals (even private ones) are public services of some kind.

I charge about 5 different prices for a stem of white denobrium orchid, but not because I like or dislike any particular country (and sometimes different customers within the same country) I am shipping to.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Heng

[way2muchcoffee]

I charge about 5 different prices for a stem of white denobrium orchid.

If this is true could you please post the location? I'd like to make sure never to shop there I might mention this to 5 or 6 others too. So please, go ahead. If you truly believe this practice is acceptable you will post the location. If you won't wost the location then you are, be default, admitting that tiered pricing is unethical and immoral.

Obviously you won't, nor should you, post your location. It'd probably be against the rules here somehow anyway. So consider the argument above as a hypothetical.

Edited September 15, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[caf]

Some Thai's will over-charge foreigners, they will over charge Thais as well, if the opportunity presents itself to make a quick profit.

If I walk into a hundred different places of business and a Thai walks into the same one hundred places, I might get over charged in 50 of them and he might get overcharged in 3. I don't see the relevance of this defense.

It is quite clear to me that it is culturally acceptable in Thailand to cheat/over charge farang, but not acceptable to cheat/over charge Thais.

I don't know where these 100 'places of business' are located, but 50% of your daily transactions? Maybe on a walk between Nana Plaza & Soi Cowboy.

If you spend your time in 'tourist ghettos' you will be overcharged, cheated & scammed (some people more than others).

I chose to spend an absolute minimum amount of time in Bangkok (& always well away from Sukhumvit etc). I do not go to Pattaya, Phuket, Koh Samui or any other so called 'tourist destinations' & as a result of this the Thais that I do meet are friendly & honest, with the odd exception. Basically on par with any other nationality.

Have I been overcharged? Of course I have, but not much more than in Australia.

Have I encountered dishonest Thais? Again, yes of course I have. As above.

Have I been the victim of one or more of the 'hundreds of scams' that are perpetuated on the hapless farang in Thailand - no.

Unless of course you count the time my passport was stolen by an American about 32 years ago.

Everybody that comes to Thailand has a different experience - mine for the most part have been positive.

The people that have problems with being overcharged, cheated, scammed (whether successful or not) need to realize that Thailand is just one step above being a 'third world' country & as such attempting to overcharge etc. is a fact of life. Your priority is to arm yourself with the skills to 'survive' in such a place, if you don't learn & adapt your behavior accordingly, you are destined to spend your time in Thailand as a victim.

As evidenced on this forum many farangs are incapable or unwilling to modify their behavior & seem to conduct themselves as if they are wandering around a supermarket in Bognor Regis or the Butlins holiday camp in Skegness.

If you need to build your 'third world' country skills I suggest spending a couple of months in India.

That is the fairest analysis I have seen on Tv

Much better than those that say all thais cheat and those that say in their experience none of them do

[caf]

I would like to hear more opinions on my comparison of a English taxi driver charging a Thai three times the true fare in the UK. If the Thai agrees to it is it just good business on the part of the taxi driver? Why is it that something we consider unethical in our own country somehow becomes ethical in Thailand because its common?

In the case of the doctor at the hospital I visited, he gets too, apparently, write in his "doctor's consultation fee". He choose to charge me more for my 5 minutes with him (90% of which was in Thai language), because

a. I am a farang

b. I am a farang and he thinks I would not find out the real price

c. ?????

The thing is, Thai people care so much about face, but their willingness to attempt to over charge or cheat farangs shows that they do not value our opinion of them whatsoever. A Thai doctor would not want to cheat a Thai because he would lose face doing so. But with a farang, its like, whatever, I don't even look at this creature as a human being so they can think of me as a low life as long as I get my extra 200 baht.

Sometimes I just want to take a bunch of $1 American Bills and throw them into a busy Thai street and watch as they all drop to their knees like they are fighting for the key to the city. Doctors included.

I agree with you. Different ethics here compared with the West. A Thai would not be overcharged in a Uk hospital for emergency treatment or subject to differential pricing.

But as a poster above said, and I agree, Thailand is different.

"need to realize that Thailand is just one step above being a 'third world' country & as such attempting to overcharge etc. is a fact of life"

If the Uk had the same poverty taxis and hospitals would do almost the same. Go back to pre Vistorain times.

[LooseCannon]

I would like to hear more opinions on my comparison of a English taxi driver charging a Thai three times the true fare in the UK. If the Thai agrees to it is it just good business on the part of the taxi driver? Why is it that something we consider unethical in our own country somehow becomes ethical in Thailand because its common?

.......

Looks like you are the only one making this suggestion. I can't see any post supporting this argument, please correct me if I am wrong.

You seem to have trouble understanding that there is a great disparity in relative wealth between your home country & Thailand (& any number of other third world & emerging countries). While this inequality exists there will be all manner of overcharging - ethics are irrelevant - it is just a fact of life.

If you can't adapt your behavior & adapt to your new environment, you are doomed to failure (or at the very least to constantly whining on internet forums about the injustice of it all).

....

Sometimes I just want to take a bunch of $1 American Bills and throw them into a busy Thai street and watch as they all drop to their knees like they are fighting for the key to the city. Doctors included.

....

Do it in London, Paris or New York & see all the white men do the same.

[DonJuanDemarco]

It's more than double tier pricing. It's discretionary pricing that often has dozens of different prices for the same service and Thais face the same. They also complain about it. In the end though, the hospitals in question are businesses... it's easy to forget that because a good number of people grow up thinking that hospitals (even private ones) are public services of some kind.

I charge about 5 different prices for a stem of white denobrium orchid, but not because I like or dislike any particular country (and sometimes different customers within the same country) I am shipping to.

Well obviously a flower will be more or less expensive in certain countries, I don't really see how that is correlated to double pricing in a hospital, which in my opinion, is very petty. If I ask a hospital clerk why am I being charged more than someone else, what can she say in response without looking like a pickpocket?

And how do they differentiate between Thais and how do they not ostracize those who get over charged? Do they have someone in the parking lot jotting down car values, counting syllables in last names and running tax return checks? Is this really the most efficient business strategy? I still have a hard time believing this (though I will take your word for it) as I rarely see Thais arguing or negotiating over bills in these situations.

Edited September 15, 2009 by DonJuanDemarco

[LooseCannon]

I charge about 5 different prices for a stem of white denobrium orchid.

If this is true could you please post the location? I'd like to make sure never to shop there I might mention this to 5 or 6 others too. So please, go ahead. If you truly believe this practice is acceptable you will post the location. If you won't wost the location then you are, be default, admitting that tiered pricing is unethical and immoral.

Obviously you won't, nor should you, post your location. It'd probably be against the rules here somehow anyway. So consider the argument above as a hypothetical.

I would say this is fairly standard practice for business - at least in Australia. Go and buy an item from a suburb populated by people with a high net worth, high property values etc & then go to a suburb populated by lower income groups & buy the exact same item. I will guarantee 100% that the item will be cheaper in the poorer suburb. This is practiced by the major supermarket chains as well as smaller independent stores. Whatever the reasons for the price discrepancies, the fact is that in a high wealth suburb the market can bear a higher price.

[Garret]

My wife called Bangkok General to ask what a hernia would cost to fix they told her there was a price for a Thai and a price for a farang the Thai price was 20,000b cheaper. I have decided to use St Louis Hospital.......

[Heng]

I charge about 5 different prices for a stem of white denobrium orchid.

If this is true could you please post the location? I'd like to make sure never to shop there I might mention this to 5 or 6 others too. So please, go ahead. If you truly believe this practice is acceptable you will post the location. If you won't wost the location then you are, be default, admitting that tiered pricing is unethical and immoral.

Obviously you won't, nor should you, post your location. It'd probably be against the rules here somehow anyway. So consider the argument above as a hypothetical.

No worries, just wear a nametag with your TV username and I'll have security screen you out. It's acceptable for myself or I wouldn't have mentioned it. I'd bet that most businesses that deal in wholesale have more than 5-6 different prices that vary with each customer. Different volumes, different sales conditions, and not all of them PC.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Heng