Thaksin Says Abhisit Interfered In Police Chief's Appointment

[Publicus]

The New York Times called the Thai Police the "largest criminal organization in Thailand" which is beyond dispute even considering there's a Russian mafia here along with bunches of other gangsters. So it's a natural from the get-go that the Thai police and Thaksin & Co should be comfy bedfellows.

The army will have tactical officers with the police tactical officers during the reds rally to monitor every move and order given by the police tac officers, and will be ready to counteract if necessary, which is a smart pre-emptive move.

There aren't any guarantees in all of this but at least the government clearly means to get on top of the situation and to stay there.

[Thai at Heart]

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if it does get down to some pushing and shoving, that the police prove to be absolutely ineffective.

Politics and recent messing with the police heirarchy will mean that they will not believe that the ISA will protect them. If the red's push it far enough, expect the army to step in.

Under the ISA the army control the situation, and I don't expect the police to want to be treated like the army's whipping boy.

We will sit and see if the reds push it far enough.

[noithip]

EDITORIAL

Police saga further clouds our politics

By The Nation

Published on September 19, 2009

There seems to be no end in sight as the force of nepotism claws its way back into the top ranks

The Abhisit administration is trying to convince the Thai public that a government cannot possibly collapse over political disagreements on the selection of a new National Police chief. However, whether or not such a strong belief exists within the coalition itself is anyone's guess. Although Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva did not look particularly concerned before his week-long trip to the United Nations, which begins tomorrow, the unsettled, divisive process to name a new head of the National Police has undeniably edged much closer to boiling point.

Abhisit has staked his leadership, while the Bhum Jai Thai Party refuses to budge. With both sides getting substantial backing in the 11-member Police Commission, the deadlock has created a very unhealthy political atmosphere and invited lobbying from all fronts.

The prime minister's last card is to name an acting police chief to replace General Patcharawat Wongsuwan, who was doomed by legal cases, and leave the search for the outgoing chief's permanent successor on the back burner.

Can Abhisit do that? A similar sort of solution was tried by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2004, when legal obstacles prevented him from officially replacing police chief Sant Sarutanond with a permanent successor. So, Pol General Sunthorn Saikwan ended up serving as acting head of police for several months.

Abhisit, on the other hand, is on far shakier ground. Thaksin was at his omnipresent peak back in 2004 and faced no threats of a government collapse over Sunthorn's appointment.

Abhisit has the Bhum Jai Thai Party to worry about, not to mention problems in his own ruling Democrat Party, where kingmaker Suthep Thaugsuban and senior party member Niphon Promphan are known to be supporting the other candidate.

The prime minister's choice, General Patheep Tanprasert, could be named the acting police chief, but if this is done, it will surely leave Bhum Jai Thai and other backers of General Jumpol Manmai fuming. The current acting police chief, General Thani Sombunsap, is another choice.

However, whatever Abhisit plans to do, he must move with legal swiftness and precision because waiting in the wings is Priewpan Damapong, the former brother-in-law of Thaksin. Priewpan has every right to pounce on the post because he has high seniority in the police force.

Considering the possible consequences of ramming through Patheep's nomination or yielding to pressure and letting Jumpol take the police helm, holding out to appoint an acting police chief while guaranteeing nothing might be the only route available for Abhisit.

At least it will buy him a little more time, though critics may say that naming an acting chief of police would only make the bomb's fuse wire longer.

The problem is threatening to spread and undermine the entire political system. And the sad irony is that these mounting problems involve an institution of men in uniform who are supposed to be kept away from politics. The selection process, in fact, was only introduced a few years ago with the aim of diluting political influence, initially wielded exclusively by the prime minister, when it came to the fate of the police chief. As it turns out, we have utterly failed to prevent the police from being politicised and the institution has featured in many key events in our never-ending political turmoil.

After the bloodbath in May 1992, we had a brief period of peace between politics and the armed forces. For a few years, the Thai public did not have to worry about who became the Army chief, Air Force chief or the head of national police. Nor did we have to hold our breath every time there were reports of disagreements over who should get the top jobs in the armed forces.

Sadly, this ongoing police chief saga means we may have gone back beyond square one. Debates should have been about public safety, crime suppression, modernisation or reforms aimed at reducing corruption in the ranks, but instead we have had to put up with reports on who backed whom and the political ramifications.

The worst part is it will only get worse. The national divide ensures that nepotism will continue feeding on the "we-have-to-do-it-otherwise-our-enemies-will-do-it" mindset. Qualifications have featured very little in Thailand's top-tier armed forces reshuffles, but from now on politics will determine everything without any shame. We are going back to the old days when rumours of a coup flew around before every seasonal transfer, especially if big names were involved.

When Abhisit suggested that the police chief issue could not make a government crumble, he might be referring to the brief, surreal period in the aftermath of May 1992. This time the threat is real and there is no sign it can be defused easily.

Apparently, even Abhisit cannot tell how this is going to end. He is going to the United Nations with what originally looked like his own problem and anxiety seeping out of the political realm. His government may yet see this crisis through, but the Thai public has seen enough to realise that it's just a symptom of a system that is still very ill and unlikely to be healed any time soon.

-- The Nation September 19, 2009

Edited September 18, 2009 by noithip

[Thai at Heart]

Without quoting the entire article, can you honestly call it a party, when Suthep is so obviously going against Abhisit?

Abhisit has the Bhum Jai Thai Party to worry about, not to mention problems in his own ruling Democrat Party, where kingmaker Suthep Thaugsuban and senior party member Niphon Promphan are known to be supporting the other candidate.

[Publicus]

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if it does get down to some pushing and shoving, that the police prove to be absolutely ineffective.

Politics and recent messing with the police heirarchy will mean that they will not believe that the ISA will protect them. If the red's push it far enough, expect the army to step in.

Under the ISA the army control the situation, and I don't expect the police to want to be treated like the army's whipping boy.

We will sit and see if the reds push it far enough.

The point is well taken.

Still, THE army is comprised of numerous units and commands. It's rather fractuous. The police might find some comfort in the fact. (I don't want to go too far with possible scenarios.)

The Sept 19 coup was successful in large part because units loyal to Thaksin were first isolated then contained by units executing the coup. Thaksin had supportive units that would have mobilized in his defense but were neutralized in their barracks as the first step to the successful coup.

THE Thai army is a disparate bunch.

The loyalist garrison in Khorat, Nakon Rachasima, is screened and selected to be so and some of its units were used in Bangkok during Black Songkran.

Regardless, I'll be sitting and watching too along with more than a few of us.

[Thai at Heart]

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if it does get down to some pushing and shoving, that the police prove to be absolutely ineffective.

Politics and recent messing with the police heirarchy will mean that they will not believe that the ISA will protect them. If the red's push it far enough, expect the army to step in.

Under the ISA the army control the situation, and I don't expect the police to want to be treated like the army's whipping boy.

We will sit and see if the reds push it far enough.

The point is well taken.

Still, THE army is comprised of numerous units and commands. It's rather fractuous. The police might find some comfort in the fact. (I don't want to go too far with possible scenarios.)

The Sept 19 coup was successful in large part because units loyal to Thaksin were first isolated then contained by units executing the coup. Thaksin had supportive units that would have mobilized in his defense but were neutralized in their barracks as the first step to the successful coup.

THE Thai army is a disparate bunch.

The loyalist garrison in Khorat, Nakon Rachasima, is screened and selected to be so and some of its units were used in Bangkok during Black Songkran.

Regardless, I'll be sitting and watching too along with more than a few of us.

I don't know what worries me more. The fact that probably the police will not be effective, but that political support here or there within the army means that their response cannot be guaranteed to be consistent.

Oh what a mess.

[manarak]

errrmmm...

Thaksin is actually criticizing a process that is normal in any country.

The police chief depends on ministry of interior, whose minister is a member of the government and has to execute the PM's orders.

As easy as that.

all points made in this thread are of course true.

[Publicus]

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if it does get down to some pushing and shoving, that the police prove to be absolutely ineffective.

Politics and recent messing with the police heirarchy will mean that they will not believe that the ISA will protect them. If the red's push it far enough, expect the army to step in.

Under the ISA the army control the situation, and I don't expect the police to want to be treated like the army's whipping boy.

We will sit and see if the reds push it far enough.

The point is well taken.

Still, THE army is comprised of numerous units and commands. It's rather fractuous. The police might find some comfort in the fact. (I don't want to go too far with possible scenarios.)

The Sept 19 coup was successful in large part because units loyal to Thaksin were first isolated then contained by units executing the coup. Thaksin had supportive units that would have mobilized in his defense but were neutralized in their barracks as the first step to the successful coup.

THE Thai army is a disparate bunch.

The loyalist garrison in Khorat, Nakon Rachasima, is screened and selected to be so and some of its units were used in Bangkok during Black Songkran.

Regardless, I'll be sitting and watching too along with more than a few of us.

I don't know what worries me more. The fact that probably the police will not be effective, but that political support here or there within the army means that their response cannot be guaranteed to be consistent.

Oh what a mess.

Agreed.

But then if today it does come down, there's Gen Prem and the absolutely loyalist Khorat army from Nakon Rachasima which always has proved decisive in Bangkok.

At what cost I couldn't say in this one, if it comes down. And if the fit does hit the shan today, I just can't picture the police standing around or simply fading into the background. They'd be right in the thick of it...I'd be sure.

As I said, I shouldn't get into the myriad of possible scenarios. But if today it does come down, the ISA becomes essentially irrelevant as the police have guns too and army units loyal to Thaksin have tanks too etc etc.

This is basically D-Day to Thailand. If it comes down, then someone will win and someone will lose. If it doesn't come down, we'll continue with more of the same but at least there wouldn't be the mess in the streets that one should otherwise expect.

Let's hope.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Publicus

[webfact]

PM told to dissolve house

By Bancha Khaengkhan

The Nation

Published on September 19, 2009

Senior Democrats have advised Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House rather than yield to pressure in picking the new National Police chief, a source said yesterday.

The source, who asked not to be named, said the senior Democrats insisted that Abhisit push Pol General Patheep Tanprasert for the top police post rather than Pol General Jumpol Manmai.

If Abhisit yields to pressure and appoints Jumpol, he would be attacked for lacking leadership. Moreover, the coalition parties would demand more from the Democrat. It would hurt his administration eventually, the source quoted senior Democrats as saying.

Abhisit must maintain the Democrat's stance although secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban and PM's secretary-general Niphon Promphan had made deals with coalition parties. The deals included Constitution amendment without establishing the Constitution Drafting Assembly and changing the election system with which the Democrats disagreed.

After dissolving the House, the next election should still be under the 2007 charter, which benefits the Democrats, the source said.

"The senior Democrats told Abhisit not to worry about being in the opposition again after House dissolution. But the party needs to keep its stance rather than bowing to the coalition parties' requests. That would only hurt the party," the source said.

-- The Nation 2009/09/19

[geriatrickid]

Give someone enough rope to hang himself................

tick tock tick tock

tis the sound of time running out on a genial chap.

[brahmburgers]

Not a secret here that promotions most often happen with money changing hands. It probably happens as often in military and teaching jobs, as it happens with police and government positions. The higher up the pecking order, the more and larger cummulative payments you're entitled to receive. Not much different than MLM.

Also, family and connections are major factors, with actual skills and intelligence lagging behind. It's no wonder then that most top positions are filled by inept and corrupt people.

A person who is not well-connected and/or can't or is not willing to buy himself promotions is left behind.

[brahmburgers]

What T would really like to say, if he wasn't a habitual liar and wasn't so infused with the Thai propensity to never say anything straightforward is.....

"How dare that upstart Abhisit interfere with the police brass order than I set up with an iron fist years ago. He is threatening the careers of my buddies from Police college. Abhisit should continue to waffle and look weak, so that I will appear strong and decisive to my dwindling mass of followers."

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Give someone enough rope to hang himself................

tick tock tick tock

tis the sound of time running out on a genial chap.

Indeed. And not so genial as the stories go, except for the cameras.

[brahmburgers]

PM told to dissolve house

By Bancha Khaengkhan

The Nation

Published on September 19, 2009

Senior Democrats have advised Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House rather than yield to pressure in picking the new National Police chief, a source said yesterday.

The source, who asked not to be named, said the senior Democrats insisted that Abhisit push Pol General Patheep Tanprasert for the top police post rather than Pol General Jumpol Manmai.

<snippety>

-- The Nation 2009/09/19

I doubt he will do that since he will consign himself into electoral oblivion for all eternity by doing so, and Thaksin will come marching home. In general, turkeys don't vote for Xmas. And my view is that Abhisit is a turkey.

Hey Kevin, Did your parents give you the middle name 'bloody' or was it self-inflicted?

Agreed, that Abhisit shouldn't dissolve alka seltzer, I mean parliament at this time. I don't completely understand the ridiculous looking maneuverings by the infantile bunch of government officials who aren't doing any governing, but it still looks like Abhisit should hang tough. If he asked me, I'd say fire every scoundrel who is putting a spanner in the spokes, and get people around him who are supportive. It might look like political suicide in the short term, but if he could do that and get some breathing room, he'd come out looking like a tough nut who means business. Maybe he should read a bio of General Patton or chief Crazy Horse to get some inspiration.

He's showing a bit of toughness lately, but it must be hard for him to get clear from the nambie pambie sheltered existence which upper crust Thais know too well - where all is pomp, posturing and ceremony, and nearly nothing is real.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I doubt he will do that since he will consign himself into electoral oblivion for all eternity by doing so, and Thaksin will come marching home. In general, turkeys don't vote for Xmas. And my view is that Abhisit is a turkey.

Hey Kevin, Did your parents give you the middle name 'bloody' or was it self-inflicted?

hey there...

Self-inflicted, comes from having to state my name too often in Thai shops.

Kevin Wilson - "Kewi Wirtow?"

Kevin Wilson - "Kewin Wirton?

Kevin Wilson - "Eh?"

KEVIN BLOODY WILSON!!!!

Nah, actually it is the name of a famous Aussie comedian (bloody funny one too if you don't mind earthy language). The choice was between him and Rodney Rude (another one), but there is no way I was going to call myself Rodney anything...

Edited September 19, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[Artisi]

I doubt he will do that since he will consign himself into electoral oblivion for all eternity by doing so, and Thaksin will come marching home. In general, turkeys don't vote for Xmas. And my view is that Abhisit is a turkey.

Hey Kevin, Did your parents give you the middle name 'bloody' or was it self-inflicted?

hey there...

Self-inflicted, comes from having to state my name too often in Thai shops.

Kevin Wilson - "Kewi Wirtow?"

Kevin Wilson - "Kewin Wirton?

Kevin Wilson - "Eh?"

KEVIN BLOODY WILSON!!!!

Nah, actually it is the name of a famous Aussie comedian (bloody funny one too if you don't mind earthy language). The choice was between him and Rodney Rude (another one), but there is no way I was going to call myself Rodney anything...

Even calling yourself Kevin is a bit suss

[henryalleman]

Maybe he should read a bio of General Patton or chief Crazy Horse to get some inspiration.

Maybe he read the book "arts of war" by Sun Tzu.

[webfact]

PM upbeat to name new police chief after New York trip

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday reaffirmed his decision about the police chief nomination, dismissing speculation about changing his mind to pick a dark horse like General Watcharaphol Prasanratchakit.

"I am confident that following my return, the police chief nomination issue will be resolved certainly," he said.

Abhisit said he was not wavering in his decision on the issue.

-- The Nation 2009/09/24

[xminator]

Have the PM actually made any comments on environmental problems during his stay in New York. I was under the impression thats what rest of the world does. If one looking at thenation og bangkok post one could get the impression the meeting is about thaksin, how martial law in coup countries are proof of democracy and police chiefs...

[Plus]

Everytime I see this thread I cringe at Thaksin's allegation.

In his days he, the PM, was appointing police chiefs all by himself, no one else had a say, it was politics and nothing else. Now Abhisit needs confirmation from the board, and it's called political interfering.

[Artisi]

Everytime I see this thread I cringe at Thaksin's allegation.

In his days he, the PM, was appointing police chiefs all by himself, no one else had a say, it was politics and nothing else. Now Abhisit needs confirmation from the board, and it's called political interfering.

But why would you take any notice of a convicted criminal on the run by the name of thaksin. No credibilty, no b_alls, no redeeming features of any nature - just a waste of space.

There is a well know saying which is seldom used these days that sums thaksin up exactly - "he is like a drovers dog, all p!ss and wind"

[Insight]

Everytime I see this thread I cringe at Thaksin's allegation.

In his days he, the PM, was appointing police chiefs all by himself, no one else had a say, it was politics and nothing else. Now Abhisit needs confirmation from the board, and it's called political interfering.

But why would you take any notice of a convicted criminal on the run by the name of thaksin. No credibilty, no b_alls, no redeeming features of any nature - just a waste of space.

There is a well know saying which is seldom used these days that sums thaksin up exactly - "he is like a drovers dog, all p!ss and wind"

Looks like the press are also starting to figure it out; nobody really took any serious notice of his last announcement to return as PM. Not that he would dare right now anyway...