คราฟ

[Rionoir]

So I noticed that a LOT of people in chatrooms or whatever spell ครับ as คราฟ when talking online. Is this just a trendy teenager thing to do, or? I could see spelling it คร้าบ since a lot of people say it that way.. but คราฟ doesn't make any sense to me.

Anyone else see this or know where it comes from?

[meadish_sweetball]

So I noticed that a LOT of people in chatrooms or whatever spell ครับ as คราฟ when talking online. Is this just a trendy teenager thing to do, or?

Probably, such deliberate misspellings abound.

By the way, the correct way to get a high tone from a dead syllable with a low consonant initial and long vowel sound is with mai trii, i.e. คร๊าบ in this case.

คร้าบ is like writing ม้าก, i.e. does not make sense according to the rules.

คราฟ doesn't make any sense to me.

It doesn't make sense to me either, but they probably don't care what makes sense to me.

[SoftWater]

By the way, the correct way to get a high tone from a dead syllable with a low consonant initial and long vowel sound is with mai trii, i.e. คร๊าบ in this case.

This is interesting! Can you give a source for this rule, Meadish? I'd always believed that mai trii and and mai juttawa were restricted to middle class consonants only. I've never heard of them being applied to low class consonants before.

Edited September 28, 2009 by SoftWater

[aircut]

คราฟ is a written version of the new generation pronunciation of ครับ

new generation also referred to as เด็กแนว where the Korean and Japanese look of บ๊องแบ๋ว and แอ๊บแบ๋ว are ruling

[tgeezer]

By the way, the correct way to get a high tone from a dead syllable with a low consonant initial and long vowel sound is with mai trii, i.e. คร๊าบ in this case.

This is interesting! Can you give a source for this rule, Meadish? I'd always believed that mai trii and and mai juttawa were restricted to middle class consonants only. I've never heard of them being applied to low class consonants before.

It is taught, but I cant research the examples they give except in my students dictionary, where they don't exist. วาก ว้าก ว๋าก เขิด เขิ้ด เขิ๋ด I can find เขิ้ด (shirt )

Edited September 28, 2009 by tgeezer

[Richard W]

By the way, the correct way to get a high tone from a dead syllable with a low consonant initial and long vowel sound is with mai trii, i.e. คร๊าบ in this case.

This is interesting! Can you give a source for this rule, Meadish? I'd always believed that mai trii and and mai juttawa were restricted to middle class consonants only. I've never heard of them being applied to low class consonants before.

I hope he can't - it's wrong! If the initial consonant sound can be written with a low consonant, one should use mai tho, as in เค้ก (the RID spelling) 'cake'. The spelling เค๊ก is frequent but wrong.

[meadish_sweetball]

Ok, humble pie for me, I was so sure I was right. Sorry for the confusion.

[Rikker]

A rare day that Meadish needs correcting! You'd be hard pressed to find a Thai who could've said which was correct, though. Spellings with ไม้ตรี abound probably because they're unambiguous, whereas some Thais I've talked to are confused by the ไม้โท, unsure how it should be read, surprisingly enough. Which goes to show that Thais don't seem to memorize rules, rather they recognize the words as units.

Some examples of correct spellings vs. common misspellings:

โน้ต vs. โน๊ต ("note", as in musical note or written note, also seen in โน้ตบุ๊ค)

โค้ด vs. โค๊ด ("code", as in ซอร์สโค้ด "source code")

Richard already mentioned เค้ก "cake"; another common one is โค้ก "Coke". The list goes on.

[aircut]

คราฟ is not a correct or not correct spelling. it is a part of an evolving language of teenagers. I have seen it written in many other styles such as คัฟ,

อ่าคับ, นะคับ, คร๊าฟ and so on..... no rules apply for the street

[Rionoir]

dam_n meadish don't confuse me... haha I thought I was gonna have to go get my writing textbook back out.

Thanks for the replies. Anyone else think the teenager speak is sooooo freaking ugly? When I started learning Thai I thought it was cute. But then when I started learning and hearing more proper Thai, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to ruin it that way. *shiver*

[meadish_sweetball]

Yeah, I am sorry about that. It shows I need to get back in the saddle again and start reading more proper Thai. Have been far too lazy the past few years.

I shouldn't agree about ภาษาวัยรุ่น... but I do, even though I understand that my aversion is not very rational - languages always vary in register and teenagers in any culture will always twist it to make it their own. They are probably rebelling against the whole พูดไพเราะ thing they are taught in school?

[tgeezer]

dam_n meadish don't confuse me... haha I thought I was gonna have to go get my writing textbook back out.

Thanks for the replies. Anyone else think the teenager speak is sooooo freaking ugly? When I started learning Thai I thought it was cute. But then when I started learning and hearing more proper Thai, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to ruin it that way. *shiver*

I hated it too, I found it confusing, but now that I have a bigger vocabulary I see it for what it is. I can't say that I would never use it, recently I thought of writing คร้าบ to show my age!

Meadish, do you realize that you used 'yeah'?

Edited September 30, 2009 by tgeezer

[Rikker]

What's wrong with 'yeah'?

[meadish_sweetball]

dam_n meadish don't confuse me... haha I thought I was gonna have to go get my writing textbook back out.

Thanks for the replies. Anyone else think the teenager speak is sooooo freaking ugly? When I started learning Thai I thought it was cute. But then when I started learning and hearing more proper Thai, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to ruin it that way. *shiver*

I hated it too, I found it confusing, but now that I have a bigger vocabulary I see it for what it is. I can't say that I would never use it, recently I thought of writing คร้าบ to show my age!

Meadish, do you realize that you used 'yeah'?

Malicious demons must have twisted my fingers.

[tgeezer]

What's wrong with 'yeah'?

Have you looked at the what we are doscussing? Is 'yeah' a word?

[Scottish Thailander]

What's wrong with 'yeah'?

Have you looked at the what we are doscussing? Is 'yeah' a word?

I must admit that I also use "yeah", definately more than I use "doscussing"! Is that when tramps swear?

[tgeezer]

What's wrong with 'yeah'?

Have you looked at the what we are doscussing? Is 'yeah' a word?

I must admit that I also use "yeah", definately more than I use "doscussing"! Is that when tramps swear?

Nice one!

[Rikker]

What's wrong with 'yeah'?

Have you looked at the what we are doscussing? Is 'yeah' a word?

Not sure why it wouldn't be. I take it that "yeah" must be something that non-native English speakers are taught is wrong to say? News to me!

If so, that brings to mind this analogy:

yes : yeah :: ครับ : คับ

[huma79]

If so, that brings to mind this analogy:

yes : yeah :: ครับ : คับ

Good call on that one. Probably the best explanation for the question by the OP As for yes, some people will write 'ya' or 'yep'

[BecTero1]

I try not to answer a question with the word "yeah" when I'm in LOS, instead use "yes" or "krupt".

Because I understand "yeah" means "bad" or "awful" in the Thai Language!!

[SoftWater]

I try not to answer a question with the word "yeah" when I'm in LOS, instead use "yes" or "krupt".

Because I understand "yeah" means "bad" or "awful" in the Thai Language!!

Haha - that reminds me of when I used to watch Winnie the Pooh vcd's in Thai for listening practice, and Pooh bear was forever getting himself into sticky situations and crying แย่แล้ว [yeah(2) leaw(3)].

That said, I think you're pretty safe using the English 'yeah' in Thailand. I'd be surprised if a Thai mistook an English 'yeah' as a Thai แย่ - the tone, vowel length and quality are all different. Also grammatically, a yes/no question in either English or Thai couldn't sensibly be answered with just the Thai word แย่, which functions either as a verb or an adverb.

Edited October 6, 2009 by SoftWater

[oed86]

I try not to answer a question with the word "yeah" when I'm in LOS, instead use "yes" or "krupt".

Because I understand "yeah" means "bad" or "awful" in the Thai Language!!

"Yeah" in this case pronounce more like เย้ than เย่ in common prononunciation. And เย้ sounds a lot like "yed" which in thai is a vulgar word for sexual copulation. If ur english techer you must have had those embarassing moments when you teach the class about the adverb "yet" because it sounds almost exactly like thai "yed".

คราฟ is one common way among many to spell the officially sanctioned ครับ.

ฮะ is also prevalent, albeit only during the previous decade when girls wanted to act like boys and stop using ค่ะ, hence the amalgamation ครับ/ค่ะ becomes simply ฮะ. Nowadays girls aren't fond of acting like a man anymore but they tend to enjoy being bitchy, so the word ฮะ comes to designate instead a boy who wants to act girlish but wants at the same time to be thought of as boy and not as out and out ladyboy. ฮะ is never neutral, the same as ครับ/ค่ะ is gender specific. It was used by tomboy but now its common among boy who want to sound polite and cute and gentle at the same time. คราฟ sounds more like cute and ruly, not polite like ฮะ but more secretly mischievous. คร้าบ sounds like eager to please, to comply with. The degree of eagerness to please also varies on how many า used. For example it could be คร้าาาาาาาาาาาบบบ to designate this whole effort to please and to comply. Same goes with ค้าาาาาาาา or ค่าาาาาาา for girls. But both คร้าาาาบ and ค่าาาาาา thing also in many many circumstances is being used ironically.

Also ฮ้าฟฟ and ฮับ is common nowdays. The person using it likely intend to mimic the childish language amd trying to sound cute as hell.

I don't see the problem with the whole correct/incorrect use debate myself. I'm happy with any kind or mode of language as long as its expressivity is suitable to the various occasions and moods and feelings.

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