Rubber Trees

[ray23]

It's certainly a long term investment but great for the next generation to have.

You are also going to benefit hugely if oil prices continue to climb which seems a no brainer to me.The differential between rubber prices and synthetic rubber from oil is now seven hundred dollars a ton.You effectively have a very small oil field in your back yard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point hadn't thought about that!

[aletta]

Ray,that labour deal you could have seems very good.

A top notch tapper can do only 300 trees a day so with approx 1700 trees on 21 rai thats wages for six full time tappers to be payed.

[aletta]

Found another good Sri Lankan rubber web site which talks about man hours per hectare on a plantation:-

A rubber estate with a yield of 1000 kg/ha would require approximately 147 mandays/ha for tapping out of the total number of 208 mandays required for the entire operation which amounts to 71%. Labour accounts for about 40% of the total cost of production of rubber. About 70% of the worker's time is spent on harvesting (tapping and collection of latex).

On your plot that equates to 208/6.25*21*250=174720 baht labour(assuming daily wage of 250 baht)

Plantation labour costs

[ray23]

Found another good Sri Lankan rubber web site which talks about man hours per hectare on a plantation:-

A rubber estate with a yield of 1000 kg/ha would require approximately 147 mandays/ha for tapping out of the total number of 208 mandays required for the entire operation which amounts to 71%. Labour accounts for about 40% of the total cost of production of rubber. About 70% of the worker's time is spent on harvesting (tapping and collection of latex).

On your plot that equates to 208/6.25*21*250=174720 baht labour(assuming daily wage of 250 baht)

Plantation labour costs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps that is why a 50/50 split is used, simplier approach, but I have also heard that I was misled a bit and the actual split is 60/40,60 to the owner

[croftrobin]

I think that you could assume a daily wage of 150 baht (which is in line with minimum wages)- especially as the work would be on-going as opposed to short term labour as in house construction -

Most village people would be happy of a regular monthly 4500 baht . though you may find that labour could be harder to obtain/more expensive, during rice harvesting/planting times as most people have a family farm that they are expected to help with.

Edited March 30, 2005 by croftrobin

[ray23]

I think that you could assume a daily wage of 150 baht (which is in line with minimum wages)- especially as the work would be on-going as opposed to short term labour as in house construction -

Most village people would be happy of a regular monthly 4500 baht . though you may find that labour could be harder to obtain/more expensive, during rice harvesting/planting times as most people have a family farm that they are expected to help with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had actually been considering a weekly wage to allow for the workers needs coupled to a semi annual bonus based on production, but that would be at least five years out. Right at the moment this seems to be a hot item, I have no idea at this juncture, how much expertise is really required.

Nor do I know how much upkeep will be required, until production actually starts.

We have a full time house keeper, with just two of us, really to have someone in the house when we travel, so probably more of a security guard. Here in Udon that normally goes for around 950 a week, six day work week. Our house keeper is a widow with one daughter in high school the other her second year in trade school. Truthfully I admired her for the effort she has put forth to gain educations for her children, We pay her 1200 a week, but the additional money is really to assist her chidren in completing thier education.

Do we have a loyal employee you bet. if I really want to get a deal on something I don't send my wife I send the house keeper. She is very protective of us, as we are of her family. Hopefully I will luck out again and find the right person and build a good working relationship. I'm very aware that is not always the case.

Edited March 30, 2005 by ray23

[aletta]

Nor do I know how much upkeep will be required, until production actually starts.

Ray,that web site says that tapping is 70 per cent of the total labour cost so i guess for the first 5 years it's 30 per cent which is appox 50000 baht per annum.

The plantations i have seen in the South and in Malaysia are kept absolutely devoid of all vegetation so you would need a team of full time weeders.

Edited March 31, 2005 by aletta

[ray23]

Nor do I know how much upkeep will be required, until production actually starts.

Ray,that web site says that tapping is 70 per cent of the total labour cost so i guess for the first 5 years it's 30 per cent which is appox 50000 baht per annum.

The plantations i have seen in the South and in Malaysia are kept absolutely devoid of all vegetation so you would need a team of full time weeders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks I found a second place only ten ria in trees, but they are twelve years old, a team already in place to care for the trees at a 50/50 to include weeding my hidden cost would be fertilizer and water, same price as the other place, with a fixer upper twp bedroom two bath house on it and 80Km's closer to town

[aletta]

Well you're certainly good at finding plantations for sale.

In the end you will have to go with your heart as you are mixing business and pleasure and how do you quantify that.This new place has a home thrown in but is smaller,but has mature trees.Very complicated so its almost impossible to analyse rates of return etc.

You can look at it as a home with lots of land and with a nice business thrown in.

[ray23]

Well you're certainly good at finding plantations for sale.

In the end you will have to go with your heart as you are mixing business and pleasure and how do you quantify that.This new place has a home thrown in but is smaller,but has mature trees.Very complicated so its almost impossible to analyse rates of return etc.

You can look at it as a home with lots of land and with a nice business thrown in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey! I have a challenge for, well maybe not you seem very good at this. I would really like a comparison between the rubber and Palm oil. No decesions are going to be made quickly, not a biggy for me, but it could be in my wifes future. She has no family to rely on.

[aletta]

Off the top of my head oil palm is a very greedy plant and needs plenty of potassium and phosphorous as well as nitrogen fertilisers.

It also is suspect to far more diseases than rubber.

[aletta]

Didn't have to look to far to see why there cannot be many palm platations in Isaan:-

Oil palm requires an average annual rainfall of 2000 mm or more distributed evenly throughout the year. Rainfall less than 100 mm for a period of more than three months is not suitable for oil palm cultivation. Oil palm thrives well at temperatures of 22-33oC with at least 5 hours sunshine per day throughout the year.

In general, the soil should be deep, well structured and well drained. However, in areas where rainfall is marginally suitable, the water-holding capacity of the soil is of greatest importance. Flat or gentle undulating land is preferred.

From:-Oil Palm Cultivation

Lots of rain,temps not over 33 degrees and good well drained soil.Hardly Isaan Ray.

[ray23]

Didn't have to look to far to see why there cannot be many palm platations in Isaan:-

Oil palm requires an average annual rainfall of 2000 mm or more distributed evenly throughout the year. Rainfall less than 100 mm for a period of more than three months is not suitable for oil palm cultivation. Oil palm thrives well at temperatures of 22-33oC with at least 5 hours sunshine per day throughout the year.

  In general, the soil should be deep, well structured and well drained. However, in areas where rainfall is marginally suitable, the water-holding capacity of the soil is of greatest importance. Flat or gentle undulating land is preferred.

From:-Oil Palm Cultivation

Lots of rain,temps not over 33 degrees and good well drained soil.Hardly Isaan Ray.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I Gotta do better then that to easy LAUGHTER

[aletta]

The only way to grow palm in Isaarn would be to do what they do up North and clear forest to get the rich soils.

Personally love forest so would not follow that route.

[ray23]

The only way to grow palm in Isaarn would be to do what they do up North and clear forest to get the rich soils.

Personally love forest so would not follow that route.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree I come from the Palm Spring (desert)area of California, no tree is going down for a palm where I live

[ray23]

The only way to grow palm in Isaarn would be to do what they do up North and clear forest to get the rich soils.

Personally love forest so would not follow that route.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree I come from the Palm Spring (desert)area of California, no tree is going down for a palm where I live

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oops forgot took a interesting ride to day about 7 Kms south of Nong Bua Lam Phu. couldn't believe it 20K a ria for land

[Bicko]

My wife and I live near Lam Plai Mat in Buri ram. We have built a very nice house on about an acre of land which we (she) is currently landscaping. I am a Humanitarian aid worker and have just been transferred from Afghanistan to the tsunami affected areas in Aceh building new clinics, schools, houses etc. I get home for a few days every 6 weeks but plan to call it quits probably at the end of this year. I want to get stuck into some sort of project when I finish and rubber appeared to be one idea to follow up

There are lots of new rubber plantations around our village and land costs have escalated a good deal in the past 12 months, for this reason. I recently met a Chinese guy who has extensive rubber plantings and a processing factory just north of Buri Ram.

He tells me that a well managed rubber plantation will clear 7 to 10,000 Bt per rai per month after taxes and labour etc.

Based on what a lot of you have written here that could well be so much BS but next time I am home i will meet with this bloke and really check it out. We do have good water at about 16 metres and a small electric pump provides all that we need for the house and the gardn. A trickle irrigation system would work Ok for rubber and would certainly improve the yield.

I am an Engineer but also have a diploma in Horticulture so will check it out and keep you all informed through this forum. Good luck with your decisions

[ray23]

My wife and I live near Lam Plai Mat in Buri ram. We have built a very nice house on about an acre of land which we (she) is currently landscaping. I am a Humanitarian aid worker and have just been transferred from Afghanistan to the tsunami affected areas in Aceh building new clinics, schools, houses etc. I get home for a few days every 6 weeks but plan to call it quits probably at the end of this year. I want to get stuck into some sort of project when I finish and rubber appeared to be one idea to follow up

There are lots of new rubber plantations around our village and land costs have escalated a good deal in the past 12 months, for this reason. I recently met a Chinese guy who has extensive rubber plantings and a processing factory just north of Buri Ram.

He tells me that a well managed rubber plantation will clear 7 to 10,000 Bt per rai per month after taxes and labour etc.

Based on what a lot of you have written here that could well be so much BS but next time I am home i will meet with this bloke and really check it out. We do have good water at about 16 metres and a small electric pump provides all that we need for the house and the gardn. A trickle irrigation system would work Ok for rubber and would certainly improve the yield.

I am an Engineer but also have a diploma in Horticulture so will check it out and keep you all informed through this forum. Good luck with your decisions

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That does sound like a very high a yield, but as best I can tell very few ever water the trees, that could change things. I guess the big question is he trying to sell something to you?

[udon]

G'day Bicko and Welcome.

You have a a diploma in Horticulture !

Be prepared for a lot of questions

There are a lot of wouldbe growers here, incl yrs truly.....

Where are you from?

Oz?

Edited April 2, 2005 by udon

[sezzo]

G'day Bicko and Welcome.

You have a a diploma in Horticulture !

Be prepared for a lot of questions

There are a lot of wouldbe growers here, incl yrs truly.....

Where are you from?

Oz?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ditto on that one. Just went passed another rubber tree plantation in our area and they are in the process of installing a drip system as well. Checked out the prices in Ubon for pvc and it works out for 25mm 5.5 baht per metre. Could be the way to go.

Will be monitoring this subject

[ray23]

G'day Bicko and Welcome.

You have a a diploma in Horticulture !

Be prepared for a lot of questions

There are a lot of wouldbe growers here, incl yrs truly.....

Where are you from?

Oz?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ditto on that one. Just went passed another rubber tree plantation in our area and they are in the process of installing a drip system as well. Checked out the prices in Ubon for pvc and it works out for 25mm 5.5 baht per metre. Could be the way to go.

Will be monitoring this subject

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of the things that I ran across in my search, is the one place I looked at friend lived in about seven years ago, during that time, he watered weeded and fertilized the place. When he saw the trees, he said they had not grown very little. Since the neighbor of the place is also a VFW member I know that they had not been taken care of at all, in that seven year period. In looking t the slope of th property the water darins to the rear. Even that much influence made the trees to the rear of the property at least six feet taller then the others.

Water and care does make a difference at to high they grow, does transfer over to yield a well?

It would appear even without care you are going to get some product.

Next question. will that care be translated into an earlier yeild?

Next question if the costs of land have risen in the area, what is the cost of a ria of land there?

[udon]

Which area , Ray?

[ray23]

Which area , Ray?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Buri Ram I'm starting to get a pretty good feel for what can be done in the Udon area. Not confident yet that I have got enough of knowledge base but getting closer

[aletta]

7 to 10,000 Bt per rai per month after taxes and labour etc

The top strains of rubber seem to yield approx 1.5 kilos per year.

10000 baht equates to 2.5 kilos a month.

[Bicko]

Thanks for the welcome. I have been watching forum for a long time but only registered recently when I installed my Vsat dish and established reliable fast email comms at my house.

Yes i am an Aussie-how did you guess!!!

The Chinese guy is not trying to sell me anything but seems quite happy to give me advice.

I was in bangkok last week renewing my Indonesian visa and my wife spoke with him and will meet him this week to discuss land costs, establishment costs, maintenance, harvesting etc. If this works and there is the possibility of making enough to support her after I've gone, we will build a small house on the place and her son and his wife will manage the place. But it's early days and I guess there are other opportunites to investigate also. As I said earlier maybe this Chinese bloke is dreaming.

I am working in Meulaboh in Northerm Sumatra and the tsunami has destroyed much of the rubber plantations here. The trees are very old and up to 50 cms in diameter and they have been torn out of the ground. They will have to be removed and replanting done. I will look at making this one of my projects for this region so will be doing a lot of research. Of course the major difference here is that the rainfall is much higher and over a longer peiod than Buri Ram.

Is there an expat club in Buri Ram and where is this fabled shop that sells pies, imported beer and other goodies. When I am home we go a couple of times a week to the shopping centre on the left going into town on the way in from Lam Plai Mat.

Cheers,

Bicko

[aletta]

I think i may have found the most aplicable information:-

Thai study of rubber growing in less suitable regions.

It's a PDF file and takes a little while to load into the browser.Loads of numbers if you like that thing but it has the conclusions below:-

Production potential marginal land 1000-1950 kg/hectare/year

Production potential suitable land 1950-2900

Production potential very suitable land 2900 upwards

Those numbers mean income of 15600/23200/over 23200 baht per rai per year.

[udon]

Thanks for the welcome. I have been watching forum for a long time but only registered recently when I installed my Vsat dish and established reliable fast email comms at my house.

Yes i am an Aussie-how did you guess!!!

You can spell & construct a sentence!

===========

A bit off topic but.....

What on earth have you got to work with in Meulaboh?

These pix show that bugger-all is left of it !

Good luck and stay away from our 30 yr old choppers, a sad day here with the loss of the 9 ADF pax within less than 24 hrs of arrival..

[Bicko]

Cheers mate. Yes I think we should start a new topic. Any suggestions seeing as you are an old hand at this forum business.

[udon]

Ray, you might want to look at the drought areas in LoS here

It's a big file but worth a look.

[udon]

Cheers mate. Yes I think we should start a new topic. Any suggestions seeing as you are an old hand at this forum business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Check Private Message, at the top rt hand cnr of this page.

Edited April 3, 2005 by udon