Solar Power

[InterestedObserver]

All this talk about stopping kWh meters is interesting, but in the US it is illegal to have current flow through the grounding conductor (earthing conductor) IAW the National Electrical Code (NEC). This is for safety reasons, the grounding conductor is for personnel safety only. The neutral conductor is used to complete the circuit path. Fault current can, at times, momentarily flow through the grounding conductor. SWER transmission lines are an entirely different subject.

Edited October 22, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[elkangorito]

Not solar power but a great device that works. It's by no means a new idea...been around for a while.

http://www.lutec.com.au/

[bangkokumpalumpa]

All this talk about stopping kWh meters is interesting, but in the US it is illegal to have current flow through the grounding conductor (earthing conductor) IAW the National Electrical Code (NEC). This is for safety reasons, the grounding conductor is for personnel safety only. The neutral conductor is used to complete the circuit path. Fault current can, at times, momentarily flow through the grounding conductor. SWER transmission lines are an entirely different subject.

ok this post sounds like it could be some fun to answer!

please tell me how SWER is different from using a grounding conductor for your neutral return?

SWER transmission lines are a different subject??? so by using a grounding conductor(earthing conductor) as a neutral return this does not make it a SWER system????

SWER = Single Wire Earth Return

for those who dont understand what this is, SWER is a system that only uses one wire to feed you electricity, sound strange??? only one wire??? I know you are thinking but you need two wires to make a light work!!!!

yes you are right!!!

so what they do is earth the neutral at the transformer and then use a metal rod in the ground as the second wire. ???? lost????

here is an example of what I mean and I dont want people testing this out!!! PLEASE DONT TRY THIS AT HOME, OR WORK FOR THAT MATTER!!!

if you take the phase wire (the one that gives you a shock) and took it outside and conected it to a light bulb, then conected the other side of the light bulb to a metal rod into the ground it would work! this is using the dirt (earth) as a big wire back to the transformer. hence the name Single Wire Earth Return.

this is why when you touch the phase wire you get a shock, the electricity flow from the phase wire through you to the ground making a circuit.

so it makes you wonder what would happen if there was no earthing systems at all on transformersand homes ect. hmmmmmmm it would mean that both wires were phase wires and the only way you could get a shock was to touch both wires! you could touch any single wire and not get a shock. but I wont go into that here as that would cause lots of arguements!!!

whislt I am at it here is me being picky about your post, just for fun as I know what you mean.

correction, it is not illegal to have the current flow through a grounding conductor in the US as after all that is the whole purpose of a grounding conductor, to have current flow through it, in a fault situation!!!

might as well add some more interesting things in here for fun, I know it is off topic but hey way not. electric can be fun and talking about it can also be fun so here is a post that is put up for ............. fun!

in a DC system what way do the elctrons flow? positive to negative? or negative to positive?

now after answering that one what do electrons do in a AC circuit???

the answers are simple, in a DC system electrons flow from negative to positive, but this was found out after the laws of electric were written, so instead of changing the books and the laws and setting it right the world has decided that we will just carry on as it is, although things are wrong the laws and rules are backwards!

this is one if the things about electric that is not really spoken about, because it means that all teaching on this topic is wrong.

now the AC side of things is interesting, the electrons flow both ways, the speed of the direction change is set by the cycles. so as a rule the only thing that makes a Phase wire different from a Neutral is that the Neutral wire has been conected to earth at the transformer.

now in NZ we use a MEN link (main Earth nuetral link), this joins the Earth to the Neutral, so in reality they are the same. the only difference is that one is green and the other is black as when it comes to the load center there is a big fat joiner that joins the two together.

this is why when you touch the nuetral wire you dont get a shock, as there is no circuit, the Neutral is conected to earth! it is conected to earth at the transformer and in the house.

there is some crazy information for you that is in some ways off topic but in many way it is still about electricity and that is what solar power is about.

[ding]

as for stopping a standard meter.

check out SWER single wire earth return

wiki SWER

the funny thing is if you set up a system that is wired with a standard meter then there is no return to the meter, the result is the meter does not work!!!

At the end of the 19th century, Nikola Tesla demonstrated that only a single wire was necessary for power systems, with no need for a wired return conductor (using the Earth instead).[5] Lloyd Mandeno fully developed SWER in New Zealand around 1925 for rural electrification. Although he termed it “Earth Working Single Wire Line” it was often called “Mandeno’s Clothesline”. More than 200,000 kilometres have now been installed in Australia and New Zealand. It is considered safe, reliable and low cost, provided that safety features and earthing are correctly installed. The Australian standards are widely used and cited. It has been applied in Saskatchewan of Canada, Brazil, Africa, portions of the United States' Upper Midwest, and SWER interties have been proposed for Alaska and prototyped.

an old system that is in use today but the interesting thing is that the modern systems cant meter this, just some food for thought,

I DO NOT RECCOMEND YOU INSTALL THIS SYSTEM

this has been posted for informational purposes only

I recall some extensive ground mats being required if electricity is near farm animals, such as dairy cows. Seems there was a path to PE, Positive Earth, for electricity and it was lighting up Elsie's teets!

In the US, the neutral conductor is ground in the service feeder, or secondary. Once there is a main breaker the ground is connectd to earth ground. The neutral, groundED conducter, is floated from ground - or isolated. The earth ground is the grondING conductor after the main breaker (or fuse) and seperate from the neutral groundED conductor.

In Thailand the ground is the kid with the longest arms, sadly.

Edited November 5, 2009 by ding

[thatguy]

Not solar power but a great device that works. It's by no means a new idea...been around for a while.

http://www.lutec.com.au/

Yes perpetual motion machines have been long sought after. They are all against the law however.

( usually the 2nd law of thermodynamics)

[InterestedObserver]

In the US, the neutral conductor is ground in the service feeder, or secondary. Once there is a main breaker the ground is connectd to earth ground. The neutral, groundED conducter, is floated from ground - or isolated. The earth ground is the grondING conductor after the main breaker (or fuse) and seperate from the neutral groundED conductor.

I don't think so, the National Electric Code (NEC) requires that the white (neutral) conductor be permanently grounded close to the service entrance for all typical residential installations. By definition a grounded conductor cannot be isolated or floating from earth ground.

Edited November 6, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[InterestedObserver]

All this talk about stopping kWh meters is interesting, but in the US it is illegal to have current flow through the grounding conductor (earthing conductor) IAW the National Electrical Code (NEC). This is for safety reasons, the grounding conductor is for personnel safety only. The neutral conductor is used to complete the circuit path. Fault current can, at times, momentarily flow through the grounding conductor. SWER transmission lines are an entirely different subject.

SWER transmission lines are a different subject??? so by using a grounding conductor(earthing conductor) as a neutral return this does not make it a SWER system????

<snip, snip>

Transmission lines operate in the high voltage range, typically 69 kV or above, while kWh meters are normally installed on low voltages systems. There is a difference, especially when it comes to safety related issues. Neutral is a defined return path for the load, thus a current carrying conductor. A grounding conductor is used for safety grounding of equipment only and by regulation cannot be used to carry load current.

[bangkokumpalumpa]

it is against regulation to stop your meter !!!! but it can be done, high voltage or low voltage it doesnt matter you can still use swer. like I put in my post it is not legal, but it does work!!!

as for safety, here is a thought for you how is it more dangerous?? I think standard thai wiring would be classed as more dangerous!!!

by earthing your neutral you are in fact making them the same line, the only difference it where the return current goes after the load center, in this case not throught the meter. regulation and physics are two different things!!!

the physics of SWER are the same as using your earth as a return path.

the trick that is used to tweek a meter is to add extra heavy duty earth rods!!

as for lighting up Elsie's teets I have read a few things about that, this would imply that the current flows through the dirt like a river and takes the least line of resistance, and at time it was good old Elsie that had the least line of resistance for those few feet !!

[elkangorito]

My comments in blue.

Not solar power but a great device that works. It's by no means a new idea...been around for a while.

http://www.lutec.com.au/

Yes perpetual motion machines have been long sought after. They are all against the law however.

( usually the 2nd law of thermodynamics)

If you had bothered to comprehend the information in the link above OR if you have any clue about electrics at all, you would have understood that the device is not a Perpetual Motion Machine. It is far from it. It really works but my questions is, "How will it work with non-sinusoidal loads?"

it is against regulation to stop your meter !!!! but it can be done, high voltage or low voltage it doesnt matter you can still use swer. like I put in my post it is not legal, but it does work!!!

The "SWER system" & "stopping your KWH meter from turning" are 2 different things. An SWER system does not mean that obtaining electrical power illegally is easier than from any other system.

as for safety, here is a thought for you how is it more dangerous?? I think standard thai wiring would be classed as more dangerous!!!

by earthing your neutral you are in fact making them the same line, the only difference it where the return current goes after the load center, in this case not throught the meter. regulation and physics are two different things!!!

the physics of SWER are the same as using your earth as a return path.

Not in the USA, where the NEC says that an SWER system may not be used UNLESS special permission is obtained.

the trick that is used to tweek a meter is to add extra heavy duty earth rods!!

The "trick" that you described to me in a PM, has nothing to do about using a heavy duty earth rod(s)...it's all about bypassing the KWH meter.

as for lighting up Elsie's teets I have read a few things about that, this would imply that the current flows through the dirt like a river and takes the least line of resistance, and at time it was good old Elsie that had the least line of resistance for those few feet !!

I would advise you to stick to topics/subjects in which you are competent.

Edited November 6, 2009 by elkangorito

[thatguy]

If you are speaking of their "over unity" device, it is by definition a perpetual motion machine.

Their patent is for a method of controlling a rotary device, not really related to gathering more power than expended to generate it.

If they could do that, they'd hardly be looking for investors to help them rule the world.