Buying With No Plate

[JimsKnight]

Buy without book but set aside a chunk o' change for when you start getting perpetual fines from all angles.

You might be lucky, but the BIB only have to be lucky the once when a big bike crackdown is ongoing and you'll of been financially better off buying a legit bike.

[Cobrabiker]

Yap Hdrider, this is the shop that told me no problem, come back every 3 months and I will be safe on the road, only red plate. Thanks everybody for the input, I got your message, I will go for bike with green book, but how to I find out whether the green book is genuine, or belongs to the bike I am buying?

[LivinLOS]

So basically Teera motorcycle is a scamming company?

Hi

Do a seach on TV about them

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Teera-Motorcycles-t188368.html

There is more about them

They do get lot of bad press. However i bought from them (in Bangkok) and no problems at all. Got the paperwork and green book in my name in couple of weeks and also did couple of oil changes etc there and they charged me only for the oil and parts. Labour for free.

That was several years ago so not sure if the same guys are running it still...

Yeah and the green books TP were getting came from a bent chonburi official and were in part what caused phukets big bike crackdown and raids.

What everyone keeps missing is even with a green book, its impossible to know if the green book is recycled.. And the Page 18 tax info issues.

Every province seems to handle the rules differently.

[MJo]

Yeah and the green books TP were getting came from a bent chonburi official and were in part what caused phukets big bike crackdown and raids.

What everyone keeps missing is even with a green book, its impossible to know if the green book is recycled.. And the Page 18 tax info issues.

Every province seems to handle the rules differently.

Very true, don't know what happened in Phuket but for Bangkok their book, in my case, was the same as others were providing in BKK. Inlcuding Red Baron which is considered your safest bet. Had few ownership changes before me etc etc.

But i guess all the big bike books come from bent officials, some done "proper" i.e. entered the system as legit and some not. Take money and fake the book.

Now for this page 18 tax thingy, i keep hearing it all the time. What's the deal ? How to check and ensure ones book is in order on that regard ?

[lennya12threh]

Now im looking for a 600 or 750 sports bike and have found a million with just the invoice, but currently two of them claiming to have the book for about 160,000 each.

Now I talked to a guy from BigBikeCycles on Rangsit. A falang who always seem willing to talk for long periods of time, and he said that 90% of the green books are faulty anyway. He said that the engine and chassis can be restamped, or the green book can be fabricated, and that he knew of one falang that got in an accident and was sent to jail for fraud because the green book was faulty, but the falang didnt know.

He also said hes had a bike with an invoice and tax paid for years and never had any problems, and that he talked to customs and they said that if you have the tax paided and an invoice that the police cannot take your bike and theres nothing wrong, but that the police departments makes up their own stuff and doesnt really know, wanting excuses to get money. But then he asked customs to put it in writting but they didnt want to do it because it would cause controversy.

Now Im a bit scared about the legitimacy of the green books for these two bikes Im interested in. I guess all I can do is take the book to the Land of trans and say I want to buy this bike. Is it in your system?

Normally all the guys say they have someone who will go make the name change and we don't have to do anything, which if they have connections I understand, but in that case the buyer never really sees the book go to the Land of Transportation.

[HDRIDER]

Now im looking for a 600 or 750 sports bike and have found a million with just the invoice, but currently two of them claiming to have the book for about 160,000 each.

Now I talked to a guy from BigBikeCycles on Rangsit. A falang who always seem willing to talk for long periods of time, and he said that 90% of the green books are faulty anyway. He said that the engine and chassis can be restamped, or the green book can be fabricated, and that he knew of one falang that got in an accident and was sent to jail for fraud because the green book was faulty, but the falang didnt know.

He also said hes had a bike with an invoice and tax paid for years and never had any problems, and that he talked to customs and they said that if you have the tax paided and an invoice that the police cannot take your bike and theres nothing wrong, but that the police departments makes up their own stuff and doesnt really know, wanting excuses to get money. But then he asked customs to put it in writting but they didnt want to do it because it would cause controversy.

Now Im a bit scared about the legitimacy of the green books for these two bikes Im interested in. I guess all I can do is take the book to the Land of trans and say I want to buy this bike. Is it in your system?

Normally all the guys say they have someone who will go make the name change and we don't have to do anything, which if they have connections I understand, but in that case the buyer never really sees the book go to the Land of Transportation.

Hi

What do you want us to say this time???

Do you home work or

Why don’t YOU take the paperwork and go to the transport office and see if everything is OK

If i wanted to sell you a bike do you really think i will say,, don’t buy it the book is not OK,,, come on do your homework.

And don’t be p!ssed of because of this answer, you will be p!ssed off when you buy a bike with no paperwork

Edited November 8, 2009 by HDRIDER

[LivinLOS]

I would just say that whoever told you that from BigBikeCycles well "he would say that wouldnt he" !

Green book is better then no green book.. But you also have page 18 tax info and as stated the book can often be modified.. You need to look closely at the book, at its age, at any changes in the bikes history, at its engine and frame stamps, at the cyl listed.. Is the number the right exact frame number for the type of bike (eg its a honda number on a honda machine, right age and model) not a Suzuki Raider on a Suzuki DRZ.. Theres obviosu ones and less obvious.

I know the dilemma, you want something a bit more then an ER6 but not in the 100's and 100's of 1000 range.. I am the same. But really if I hadnt found my project bike I would take a Kwaker, in fact even with my bike working out, theres still a lot to be said for the newness and parts availability of the kwakers.

[lennya12threh]

Now im looking for a 600 or 750 sports bike and have found a million with just the invoice, but currently two of them claiming to have the book for about 160,000 each.

Now I talked to a guy from BigBikeCycles on Rangsit. A falang who always seem willing to talk for long periods of time, and he said that 90% of the green books are faulty anyway. He said that the engine and chassis can be restamped, or the green book can be fabricated, and that he knew of one falang that got in an accident and was sent to jail for fraud because the green book was faulty, but the falang didnt know.

He also said hes had a bike with an invoice and tax paid for years and never had any problems, and that he talked to customs and they said that if you have the tax paided and an invoice that the police cannot take your bike and theres nothing wrong, but that the police departments makes up their own stuff and doesnt really know, wanting excuses to get money. But then he asked customs to put it in writting but they didnt want to do it because it would cause controversy.

Now Im a bit scared about the legitimacy of the green books for these two bikes Im interested in. I guess all I can do is take the book to the Land of trans and say I want to buy this bike. Is it in your system?

Normally all the guys say they have someone who will go make the name change and we don't have to do anything, which if they have connections I understand, but in that case the buyer never really sees the book go to the Land of Transportation.

Hi

What do you want us to say this time???

Do you home work or

Why don’t YOU take the paperwork and go to the transport office and see if everything is OK

If i wanted to sell you a bike do you really think i will say,, don’t buy it the book is not OK,,, come on do your homework.

And don’t be p!ssed of because of this answer, you will be p!ssed off when you buy a bike with no paperwork

Hi. Yea thanks for the input. I wouldnt get one wo/ the book anyways. Right now I have two options that have the green book, and before buying I will make sure it is in the Land Trans computer before paying.

More so just playing with ideas and expressing the idea that many of the green books are faulty or fabricated, or people can even restamp the engine or chassis numbers.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

I dont think you will ever know about fake books, i have a few bikes and they seems to be good, seems. my DRZ 400 have a new book from when it was imported but is it OK?? i hope, my HD book i hope, it has all the right stamps on page 18 saying tax has been paid..but you will never know, i have seen fake books and they look like the real thing.

[lennya12threh]

Hi

I dont think you will ever know about fake books, i have a few bikes and they seems to be good, seems. my DRZ 400 have a new book from when it was imported but is it OK?? i hope, my HD book i hope, it has all the right stamps on page 18 saying tax has been paid..but you will never know, i have seen fake books and they look like the real thing.

Id say you know its real if you see it go through the land of transportation yourself. When tax is paid or the name changed.

You would never have a problem when it comes to getting pulled over, but if you got in an accident and the book was dodgey youd have a problem.

[Cobrabiker]

Hi lennya12threh, good info you have, it is really an eye opener for the fake green book. Has anyone actually bring the green book to the Land Transport to check? What specifically to look out for?

[LivinLOS]

Id say you know its real if you see it go through the land of transportation yourself. When tax is paid or the name changed.

But a well dont recycled book IS in the computer..

Theres a BM in exactly that situation posting on here now.. Bought it, had it put in his name, now they find a problem and sales are tough (Phuket is harder on this).

Theres many many levels of messed up books, fairly obviousl when you think about it. From outright forged books (not on DMV comp) to adapted books (sonic book on a fireblade) to a badly done book (Like having a frame number of a different year but same bike) to a well done book (same bike exact model, year, etc) in the latter is simply impossible to know.

[Jaydillon]

So if you import a bike the legitimate way and pay import duty aren't you allow to register and tax the bike and get the green book??

[LivinLOS]

So if you import a bike the legitimate way and pay import duty aren't you allow to register and tax the bike and get the green book??

Of course.. But thats a 100k plus proposition..

And with the new emissions regs theres a lot of question marks.

[lennya12threh]

Emission regs. whhat the fuc_k............

[Jaydillon]

So if you import a bike the legitimate way and pay import duty aren't you allow to register and tax the bike and get the green book??

Of course.. But thats a 100k plus proposition..

And with the new emissions regs theres a lot of question marks.

Thanks Pal tell me a bit more about the emissions regulations in Thailand LOL and any grey areas.

[LivinLOS]

Well they have introduced very tough new regs (EURO III ??) whch basically mean carbed bikes shouldnt pass.. But I guess $$ talks as it always does.

I have been told anecdotally that the emission test is 30k and if you fail.. thats 30k flushed.. So you need to know the examiner is going to pass it before its tested (they can make it fail should they want I am told) so thats more $$

It can be done.. But dont think its going to be cheap or easy.. Probably better to just pay an agent the 100k or so it will need and have an easy life.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

When they did the crack down here in Phuket my HD book was in the office, a Thai girl i know very well did it for me, they only did a quick look and told her it was OK, so i guess it is, i hope it is, one of my friends had to pay very close to 50.000 for extra tax

[nonghoidave]

Well, now I wish I had read this forum before I went and purchased a bike with no book or tag, just the invoice. Looks daunting from all the comments.

I sold my 1995 Ducati M900 in July before moving to Chiangmai, I didn't want the import hassles, and the tariff just seemed way too high. But I got the itch to ride right away, so I searched the internet for something reasonably priced and fun.

The seller had it listed with a dealer in Pattaya (Iron Horse), who was selling it for him (commission), and the fellow that owns the shop, a farang, told me I could expect to pay @ 80,000 for book and tag, if he did it for me. He seems reputable enough, and said the paperwork was fine to obtain book and tag. Said it would cost @ the same as a HD Sportster to register.

But since I live in Chiangmai, and have a good friend that is an attorney here with tons of connections at government agencies, I think I'll give it a go with her and see what happens. She checked the invoice and paperwork with stamps, everything *seems* okay so far. She won't charge me any fees, she owes me a few favors.

Even with an 80,000 baht kick in the pants to get it road legal, I think it is a good deal for a 2006 Ducati MultiStrada 1000 (10,000 kilometers on bike): 220,000. With book and tag: 300,000 seems about right. Clean, well maintained, never dropped...runs great. It's F.I., so I hope the emissions test is no problem. I was unaware of that angle before reading it here.

I had been looking at a 1998 Yamaha 1300 (180,000+book and tag) from a dealer in Bangkok on internet, but when I asked to come look at it, he said the way they operated was first I left an 80,000 deposit, then they imported the bike from Japan, assembled it, then I paid the balance IF I liked the bike, which would have "no more" than 40,000 kilometers....seemed iffy. It did have 1 yr guarantee, but still...I thought of the hassle getting my deposit back if I said no.

I tried my buddy's Honda Airblade automatic: felt like a toy under my 205 LB frame. I'm sure it's a fine ride, easy to operate, economical...but I can't see taking it up into the mountains on a cool weekend morning for a picnic cruise with my honey. Maybe I'll end up buying one to dart around town on.

I'll come back and let you know how easy or difficult (i.e. expensive) registering it turns out. Thanks for all the info.

[HDRIDER]

HI

Why would you buy a Yamahaaaa anyway if you could get a Duke

[LivinLOS]

I'll come back and let you know how easy or difficult (i.e. expensive) registering it turns out. Thanks for all the info.

Please do so, let us know as much as you can.

Part of the problem is the lack of good info, the lack of clear guidelines, and where the hidden snags are. So people posting thier success stories really helps.

[Cobrabiker]

Just talked to Piston at Chiang Mai, they are importing used good conditioned bikes from Japan, and with green book will be additional 80k baht, and they said theirs are genuine, which means bike and green book's details are matched 100%. one Bike already sold before it is in this LOS, interesting!

Well, I have never dealt with all these big bike shops before, would appreciate your comment on this shop and good or bad experience with them. Alternatetively, what other shops for Japanese used big cc bike are reliable with genuine green book?

[Kf6vci]

No offence - but with 80 k eating up more than 1/3rd the cost of a new Kawa 650 with green book or a Tiger Boxer 250 RS with tubeless tires and thousands to spare, what on earth makes you consider buying some X years old Jap bikes instead? Final bill = near the 225,000 Kawasaki entry price?

Think again!

Chris

[LivinLOS]

No offence - but with 80 k eating up more than 1/3rd the cost of a new Kawa 650 with green book or a Tiger Boxer 250 RS with tubeless tires and thousands to spare, what on earth makes you consider buying some X years old Jap bikes instead? Final bill = near the 225,000 Kawasaki entry price?

Think again!

Chris

Because maybe they are after something a bit more then a twin 650 ??

Do the numbers on a 1000cc bike and its suddenly a lot more appealing. Plus overseas maintenance records and parts availability means bikes are not so badly bodged and a few years old may not be a problem.

[BigBikeBKK]

No offence - but with 80 k eating up more than 1/3rd the cost of a new Kawa 650 with green book or a Tiger Boxer 250 RS with tubeless tires and thousands to spare, what on earth makes you consider buying some X years old Jap bikes instead? Final bill = near the 225,000 Kawasaki entry price?

Think again!

Chris

Because maybe they are after something a bit more then a twin 650 ??

Do the numbers on a 1000cc bike and its suddenly a lot more appealing. Plus overseas maintenance records and parts availability means bikes are not so badly bodged and a few years old may not be a problem.

While that may be true of some bikes, the CBR 929 is perhaps not such a great choice because it was only in production for 2 years which could make finding parts tough. How the shop is getting the bikes past the emissions test is anyone's guess, but just because they promise you a legit green book doesn't mean you'll actually get one... Good luck!

[LivinLOS]

No agreed.. a 929 would be hard pushed to make sense to legally import..

[Cobrabiker]

You are right,Kf6, that is hefty for a green book on a used bike, it adds up to something like 240k, there is another shop asking 290k including book. I will look in to Kawasaki's bike, a brand new Kawi for the same price of a used 929. Thanks for all your opinions.

[LivinLOS]

When looking aroun 929 money there was one at 130k booked.. theres a R1 going for 150 asking.. Think I saw a early CBR900 going for similar money.

Adding a legit book to that price on that age doesnt make much sense. Unless theres some reason why you particularly like that exact bike that adds serious value.

[katabeachbum]

When looking aroun 929 money there was one at 130k booked.. theres a R1 going for 150 asking.. Think I saw a early CBR900 going for similar money.

Adding a legit book to that price on that age doesnt make much sense. Unless theres some reason why you particularly like that exact bike that adds serious value.

Worst thing with the 80k legit books, is that they are not really legit. Its a hefty mod of engine and exhaust to pass emissiontest (at 29k baht). Then the mods are removed again, and bike wont pass future emission tests.

[LivinLOS]

When looking aroun 929 money there was one at 130k booked.. theres a R1 going for 150 asking.. Think I saw a early CBR900 going for similar money.

Adding a legit book to that price on that age doesnt make much sense. Unless theres some reason why you particularly like that exact bike that adds serious value.

Worst thing with the 80k legit books, is that they are not really legit. Its a hefty mod of engine and exhaust to pass emissiontest (at 29k baht). Then the mods are removed again, and bike wont pass future emission tests.

Yeah but I dont think old bikes are held to the same standards as new registrations.. Certainly I had an old clunker do emmisions recently for tax renewal and they tested it and it passed.. Thats not a Euro II I spec FI machine for sure.