Riding 'in' Or 'on' Different Modes Of Transport

[Tod Daniels]

I have a question about riding 'in' or 'on' different modes of transportation.

If I get 'into' a car, train or plane I ขึ้น, correct? Once I am on the skytrain, am I บน, ใน, or ที่?

I know that ขับ is to drive a car, and ขี่ is to ride a bicycle, moto-cy, or an animal, but what am I doing as a passenger of a the aforementioned things? Am I บน, ใน, or ที่, or some word I obviously don't know yet.. ..

While this may seem like a trivial thing, I am trying to at least come to grips with the different terms thais use in place of what we say in english as 'on the sky train', or 'in a taxi'.

Any help is appreciated, and if this question like so many has been asked before, just jump the link to the older post.

Thanx

Tod

[SoftWater]

I have a question about riding 'in' or 'on' different modes of transportation.

If I get 'into' a car, train or plane I ขึ้น, correct? Once I am on the skytrain, am I บน, ใน, or ที่?

I know that ขับ is to drive a car, and ขี่ is to ride a bicycle, moto-cy, or an animal, but what am I doing as a passenger of a the aforementioned things? Am I บน, ใน, or ที่, or some word I obviously don't know yet.. ..

While this may seem like a trivial thing, I am trying to at least come to grips with the different terms thais use in place of what we say in english as 'on the sky train', or 'in a taxi'.

Any help is appreciated, and if this question like so many has been asked before, just jump the link to the older post.

Thanx

Tod

As a passenger in a car, taxi, songtaew or skytrain, I usually hear นั่งอยู่ nang(2) yoo(1) + mode of transport (no preposition used)

(sidle up to someone next time your on the BTS and listen when they answer the phone!)

I suspect that if you added บน you might suggest that you are on the roof...

As for being a passenger on a motorbike, or elephant, you've got me there (neither done it nor sat next to someone doing it!). I will ask the mrs when I get home if no one answers you beforehand.

[rgs2001uk]

I have a question about riding 'in' or 'on' different modes of transportation.

If I get 'into' a car, train or plane I ขึ้น, correct? Once I am on the skytrain, am I บน, ใน, or ที่?

I know that ขับ is to drive a car, and ขี่ is to ride a bicycle, moto-cy, or an animal, but what am I doing as a passenger of a the aforementioned things? Am I บน, ใน, or ที่, or some word I obviously don't know yet.. ..

While this may seem like a trivial thing, I am trying to at least come to grips with the different terms thais use in place of what we say in english as 'on the sky train', or 'in a taxi'.

Any help is appreciated, and if this question like so many has been asked before, just jump the link to the older post.

Thanx

Tod

As a passenger in a car, taxi, songtaew or skytrain, I usually hear นั่งอยู่ nang(2) yoo(1) + mode of transport (no preposition used)

(sidle up to someone next time your on the BTS and listen when they answer the phone!)

I suspect that if you added บน you might suggest that you are on the roof...

As for being a passenger on a motorbike, or elephant, you've got me there (neither done it nor sat next to someone doing it!). I will ask the mrs when I get home if no one answers you beforehand.

Agree with softwater, I usually use nang, eg nang rotmae or nang taksi.

Concur with the comment regarding bon.

As for being a passenger on a motorbike, my memory seems to recall the word son(or is it som?), meaning to double up.

If my wife asks me, yuu nai I usually reply yuu taksi, or nang taksi.

[SoftWater]

Alas, turns out my wife totally disagrees (this is why she won't teach me thai - she says I always argue with her...).

She says บน, ใน and ที่ are all acceptable. อยู่บน was her favoured choice with Skytrain after some reflection (and NOT meaning you're on the roof... ), but her initial reaction was อยู่ใน... take from that what you will.

For motorbikes, ซ้อน or นั่งบน will do.

The only suggestion she pulled a disapproving face at was my offer of นั่งอยู่รถไฟฟ้า, to which she simply shrugged and said, 'what if I'm standing up?'

You win some you lose some....

Edited October 7, 2009 by SoftWater

[Rionoir]

I'll just add for the OP that you aren't necessarily incorrect about your use of ขึ้น .. however I was told it is less common than นั่ง when used with Taxis. Since ขึ้น actually means to go UP into something, it is appropriate to use it when saying you are on the bus. (ผมขึ้นรถเมล์) In the end though, you can use them almost interchangably and won't really be wrong.

When talking about being on the train... It seems natural in my ear to just say อยู่รถไฟฟ้า ... when in doubt, leave off the preposition, that's what I've figured out. LoL There's always a longer way to say things in Thai (ยืนในรถไฟฟ้า I guess?), but all my friends tend to lean towards short and less specific statements.

If you said ผมอยู่ที่รถไฟฟ้า it sounds to me like you are at the train station maybe, not on the train? i.e., you are AT the train, not on/in the train. Have nothing to back that up though. LoL

[SoftWater]

ขึ้น and ลง are used for the actions of getting in and out of vehicles (respectively), not for the state of being on (or in) them.

Edited October 8, 2009 by SoftWater

[Rionoir]

ขึ้น and ลง are used for the actions of getting in and out of vehicles (respectively), not for the state of being on (or in) them.

I know it translates oddly, but ขึ้นรถเมล์อยู่ is an acceptable sentence in Thai to say that you are currently riding on the bus. I just went and reconfirmed this with a couple Thai friends on MSN to make sure I wasn't remembering incorrectly lol, but they agreed and said it's the same as saying นั่งรถเมล์อยู่.

BTW, I'm not disputing what you said about ขึ้น and ลง, because they are also used the way you described... but since the OP asked about ขึ้น specifically I just wanted to address the ways it can be used.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Rionoir

[SimonN]

ขึ้น and ลง are used for the actions of getting in and out of vehicles (respectively), not for the state of being on (or in) them.

This actually, isn't technically correct, ขึ้น means to ascend or go up and ลง means the opposite, to descend or go down. These words don't portray the action of "in" or "out".

Generally one has to go "up" to get into a vehicle (ขึ้นรถ), but in the case of where one must go "down" to get into a vehicle, for instance a boat at a pier, where the pier is raised above the level of the boat, then one would "ลงเรือ", to embark it.

[Tod Daniels]

Thanx for the replies. If anything it shows how trying to come to grasp with the subtleties of thai can be frustrating at times. Trying to be too correct in language usage, or basing thai sentence structure from english can and often does result in a sentence which sounds artificial to a thai or carries too much information that is useless to the conversation.

A couple times a week I sit outside on my soi and visit with 5 or 6 thai guys (who are close to my age, work various and sundry jobs at the big hotels which surround my apartment and can all speak quite good english).

Normally they bring their vocabulary words from their mandatory english lessons at the hotel and I try to give them the thai meanings/usage of the words as their english teacher can’t speak thai. We trade thai for english and I listen to the gossip from the hotel; it’s really helped my comprehension of spoken thai.

I asked them about the correct way to say “I’m on the sky train” and they said, "ลุงท้อดพูดสั้นๆดีกว่า".

Every one of them said to leave out any preposition or more specific location marker and say simply อยู่รถไฟฟ้า, อยู่แท็กซี่. When we talked about it further, they said the person you are speaking to wants to know where you are, and is not particularly interested what position your body is in. They also adding the words นั่ง บน ใน and even ที่ (while technically correct) would be understood from context by the person you are talking to. If you are in a taxi you are most likely sitting, not clinging to the roof. This small question of mine goes a long way in pointing out the differences between grammatically correct thai and colloquially spoken thai where much of the extra information is dropped for brevities sake.

P.S.; Lest we forget there is another usage for ขึ้น (although still meaning to ascend or go up). It is used in an impolite slang when a young man has his first experience with a prostitute; as in ขึ้นครู or "go up on the teacher".

Thanx again for the answers, I almost didn't ask the question as it seemed so trivial, but with the disparate answers from the resident experts I'm glad I did

edited for spelling TWICE (but probably still got it wrong!)

Edited October 8, 2009 by tod-daniels

[SoftWater]

ขึ้น and ลง are used for the actions of getting in and out of vehicles (respectively), not for the state of being on (or in) them.

This actually, isn't technically correct, ขึ้น means to ascend or go up and ลง means the opposite, to descend or go down. These words don't portray the action of "in" or "out".

Generally one has to go "up" to get into a vehicle (ขึ้นรถ), but in the case of where one must go "down" to get into a vehicle, for instance a boat at a pier, where the pier is raised above the level of the boat, then one would "ลงเรือ", to embark it.

Thanks Simon, but I didn't say that they "meant" get in / out, I said they are the words used for the action of getting in and out of vehicles, which is - technically - correct. Admittedly, I hadn't thought of boats, and as you say, you would swap them around, but it doesn't change the point that they are used for the action and not the condition of being in or on something.

Edited October 8, 2009 by SoftWater

[SoftWater]

Thanx for the replies. If anything it shows how trying to come to grasp with the subtleties of thai can be frustrating at times. Trying to be too correct in language usage, or basing thai sentence structure from english can and often does result in a sentence which sounds artificial to a thai or carries too much information that is useless to the conversation.

Words from the wise men on tod's soi...thanks for that Tod...always best to get a locals perspective, though they will sometimes disagree amongst themselves too!

As for the bit I've quoted above, I couldn't agree more. After pronunciation, interference from English grammar is one of the chief reasons why my attempts to speak thai are sometimes met with bafflement. We can only keep learning, and hope the water gets a little less muddy each day.

Edited October 8, 2009 by SoftWater

[SoftWater]

ขึ้น and ลง are used for the actions of getting in and out of vehicles (respectively), not for the state of being on (or in) them.

I know it translates oddly, but ขึ้นรถเมล์อยู่ is an acceptable sentence in Thai to say that you are currently riding on the bus. I just went and reconfirmed this with a couple Thai friends on MSN to make sure I wasn't remembering incorrectly lol, but they agreed and said it's the same as saying นั่งรถเมล์อยู่.

BTW, I'm not disputing what you said about ขึ้น and ลง, because they are also used the way you described... but since the OP asked about ขึ้น specifically I just wanted to address the ways it can be used.

Thanks Rionoir. It's a new one on me, but I'll take your (or your thai friends') word for it! We all only get exposed to such a small fragment of how the language is used, its no wonder we have differing answers!

Mods: got any promotional drives to get some more native thai speakers in here??

Edited October 8, 2009 by SoftWater

[Groongthep]

ขึ้น and ลง are used for the actions of getting in and out of vehicles (respectively), not for the state of being on (or in) them.

This actually, isn't technically correct, ขึ้น means to ascend or go up and ลง means the opposite, to descend or go down. These words don't portray the action of "in" or "out".

Generally one has to go "up" to get into a vehicle (ขึ้นรถ), but in the case of where one must go "down" to get into a vehicle, for instance a boat at a pier, where the pier is raised above the level of the boat, then one would "ลงเรือ", to embark it.

Simon, I believe, is correct here. If you are getting on a bus you ขึ้นรถ because you are going up, but if you are getting into a canal boat you ลงเรือ because you are going down.

[SoftWater]

ขึ้น and ลง are used for the actions of getting in and out of vehicles (respectively), not for the state of being on (or in) them.

This actually, isn't technically correct, ขึ้น means to ascend or go up and ลง means the opposite, to descend or go down. These words don't portray the action of "in" or "out".

Generally one has to go "up" to get into a vehicle (ขึ้นรถ), but in the case of where one must go "down" to get into a vehicle, for instance a boat at a pier, where the pier is raised above the level of the boat, then one would "ลงเรือ", to embark it.

Simon, I believe, is correct here. If you are getting on a bus you ขึ้นรถ because you are going up, but if you are getting into a canal boat you ลงเรือ because you are going down.

Oh dear, I seem to be having trouble making myself understood in my first language (no wonder i've got problems in my second one... )

I'll try this again: I wasn't disagreeing with Simon about getting up into a bus or down into a boat - of course, he is correct. My point was that in English we say 'I'm getting in the car' in Thai we say ขึ้นรถ (or ลงเรือ if you want to switch it to boats). So, we use ขึ้น (and ลง) as action verbs rather than stative verbs ("I am in...).

Except...Rionoir seems to have found that some Thais will use them as stative's....I never heard this before, but I'm not any kind of expert to argue...tho' before I use it myself, be nice if any native speaker's could confirm it (my wife, typically, just shrugs disinterestedly and says 'it doesn't really matter so long as I know where you are...' )

Edited October 13, 2009 by SoftWater

[DavidHouston]

Here is a response I received to a similar question in September:

http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31391

[SoftWater]

Here is a response I received to a similar question in September:

http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31391

Thanks David, if I understand this aright, these all help confirm what we've established - that its relative position that determines whether to use ขึ้น or ลง for the action; now about the state of being on the boat/train, anyone able to confirm Rionoir's friends use of ขึ้น + vehicle + อยู่ ? I would really like to know how this translates to a native ear, as I can't help thinking of it as 'I am getting on the...[vehicle] rather than 'I'm already aboard and happily floating along' (I've switched to boats rather than trains for the example in the hope that we can get away from the 'is it a train or a boat' issue!).

BTW, thanks to all - interesting how a surprisingly simple question turns up a real farang muddle!!

[DavidHouston]

Here are some examples from http://www.baanmaha.com/community/5-%E0%B8...E0%B8%96-11565/ :

ไม่ว่าคุณจะขึ้นแท็กซี่ รถตู้ หรือรถส่วนตัว คนร้ายที่วางแผนมาอย่างดี มักจะฉวยโอกาสรอให้คุณขึ้นรถแล้วออกไปโดยที่คุณไม่สามารถทำอะไรได้

Whether you are traveling by taxi, van, or automobile, well-prepared thieves will wait until you are safely aboard to seize the opportunity to [rob you] when you are unable to respond. . . .

วิธีนี้ก็สามารถเรียกความสนใจจากพลเมืองดีบนถนนได้อย่างดี เพราะเมื่อคุณปาสิ่งของที่ผิดสังเกตที่อยู่บนรถลงมา เช่นกระเป๋าสะพายของคุณเอง(เอาของมีค่าออกก่อนด้วย) ขวดน้ำ หนังสือพิมพ์ ยิ่งทำให้น่าสงสัย ตำรวจบริเวณนั้นต้องเรียกรถคันดังกล่าวจอด

Using this method, you will be able to solicit assistance from interested bystanders because when you throw things out of the car onto the street, for example, your personal shoulder bag (of course, you have removed all of your valuables first); water bottles; and newspapers, bystanders will become suspicious. The police in that area will then order the vehicle [you are in] to stop.

[rgs2001uk]

Here is a response I received to a similar question in September:

http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31391

Thanks David, if I understand this aright, these all help confirm what we've established - that its relative position that determines whether to use ขึ้น or ลง for the action; now about the state of being on the boat/train, anyone able to confirm Rionoir's friends use of ขึ้น + vehicle + อยู่ ? I would really like to know how this translates to a native ear, as I can't help thinking of it as 'I am getting on the...[vehicle] rather than 'I'm already aboard and happily floating along' (I've switched to boats rather than trains for the example in the hope that we can get away from the 'is it a train or a boat' issue!).

BTW, thanks to all - interesting how a surprisingly simple question turns up a real farang muddle!!

SW,

yes what Rionoir's friends have said is correct.

I can understand the confusion, we dont know the the question that was asked.

If the question is where are you? then the answer given by Rionoir is acceptable, I am on the boat and floating away.

If the question was, what are you doing right now? the answer would be gamlang xxxxxx.

I find at times the Thai language to be implied.

Tod, pretty much summed it up for me in the answer he gave, there are times when Thais almost speak in shorthand, the ones having the conversation understand, but the casual listener may not.

Agree about a farang mudle, also have the same problem with Thai muddle's, there are times I have asked 3 different Thai's the same question and had 3 differing replies.

We live and learn.

[SoftWater]

I totally agree, rgs2001uk. I think Tod nailed it. That said, I've found that pursuing these minor points is often beneficial, sometimes serendipitously (like finding the 'baanmaha' site that David posted a link to - looks an interesting find in itself), and other times because finding out quite why some minor thing didn't make sense to my brain often clears up other things along the way. By small steps, rather than leaps and bounds, progress crawls forth...

So, if you'll all forgive my stubborness, I'd like to pursue this a little while longer, as I'm still not 'seeing the light' here. Which brings me to David's first quote:

ไม่ว่าคุณจะขึ้นแท็กซี่ รถตู้ หรือรถส่วนตัว คนร้ายที่วางแผนมาอย่างดี มักจะฉวยโอกาสรอให้คุณขึ้นรถแล้วออกไปโดยที่คุณไม่สามารถทำอะไรได้

Whether you are traveling by taxi, van, or automobile, well-prepared thieves will wait until you are safely aboard to seize the opportunity to [rob you] when you are unable to respond. . . .

To my mind, this highlights the problem rather than offers a solution because, while having all due respect for David's greater experience with the language, I read this somewhat differently, to wit:

Whether you are getting in a taxi, van or private vehicle, robbers with well-laid plans often seize the opportunity to wait until you are getting in the vehicle and then take off without you being able to do anything about it.

Depending on which translation is more accurate, it will settle the question of whether ขึ้น here means 'travelling' or 'getting in'. Surely, if you are already 'travelling' as in David's version, how can they wait for you to be 'safely aboard'.

Incidentally, reading the rest of the advice on the site, the idea is that the thieves are hijacking you and your vehicle, as opposed to robbing your bag, say, as you try to get in (which is what I thought at first till I read the rest of the advice).

Edited October 13, 2009 by SoftWater

[Rionoir]

Except...Rionoir seems to have found that some Thais will use them as stative's....I never heard this before, but I'm not any kind of expert to argue...tho' before I use it myself, be nice if any native speaker's could confirm it (my wife, typically, just shrugs disinterestedly and says 'it doesn't really matter so long as I know where you are...' )

For what it's worth, I learned it that way in the course at Chula. Because of all the confusion I also asked about 7 Thai friends about it, and they all said it can be used that way. One of my friends who is a little more articulate with English said it is more confusing because it's ambiguous as to whether you are getting in or sitting on the bus, but that's very common in Thai to make the listener guess from context, isn't it. LoL

[SoftWater]

Except...Rionoir seems to have found that some Thais will use them as stative's....I never heard this before, but I'm not any kind of expert to argue...tho' before I use it myself, be nice if any native speaker's could confirm it (my wife, typically, just shrugs disinterestedly and says 'it doesn't really matter so long as I know where you are...' )

For what it's worth, I learned it that way in the course at Chula. Because of all the confusion I also asked about 7 Thai friends about it, and they all said it can be used that way. One of my friends who is a little more articulate with English said it is more confusing because it's ambiguous as to whether you are getting in or sitting on the bus, but that's very common in Thai to make the listener guess from context, isn't it. LoL

Thanks, Rionoir. I wasn't doubting your word, it's just as we all know, native speech is often 'loose' (true of both English and Thai) and native speakers often disagree with each other (also true of both English and Thai. You wouldn't believe the rows some of the farang teachers at my school have about what does or doesn't make sense in English!). I've even recently seen a book written by two Thai native speakers teaching Thai to foreigners that other Thai speakers on a different forum say is just plain wrong (the Thai is wrong, I mean, not the English!). [The book in question is 'Speaking Thai: The Fastest Way to Speak Thai' by Dhirapol Polsawasdi and Chanchai Boonhao, p161-164.]

I think what's becoming clear from the consensus is that you have it right - I'm just interested to see what else comes out of the discussion, and as I said above, something, somewhere, just makes my brain say uh?! (well, that happens a lot, for sure...)

Regards

Softwater

Edited October 13, 2009 by SoftWater

[Rionoir]

Here's another perspective for you, from one of my friends who speaks very little English and lives in อีสาน:

อยู่บนรถเมล์ = นั้งบนรถแล้ว (อาจ ยืน หรือ นั้งก็ได้)

นั่งรถเมล์ = นั้งนานแล้ว

ขึ้นรถเมล์ = กำลังจะขึ้น OR เพิ่งขึ้น

Most people I've asked ultimately say they are all the same though, and if asked specifically about ขึ้น will say yes you can use it to say you are on the bus... they say, it's Thai! Say it whichever way you want and people will understand you from context. LoL

The most popular INITIAL answer I have gotten, however, is อยู่บนรถ So take that for what it's worth... it wasn't exactly a large-scale poll.

[mangkorn]

It is also possible that one may think he hears ลงเรือ - when what was actually said was ล่องเรือ...

[DavidHouston]

Often when riding in our car we will get a telephone call. My wife will tell the caller, "เราอยู่บนรถ".

[SoftWater]

A Thai friend of mine sent me an email with a very clear and detailed explanation on this thread. Alas, I think we've covered most of what she sent me, so I won't repeat it. However, two things she mentioned that I don't think have been noted in any of the above posts were:

i. Note that for รถไฟฟ้าใต้ดิน we 'step down' to get into it.. so we'll say ลงรถไฟฟ้าใต้ดิน for getting into MRT and ลงจาก/ออกจากรถไฟฟ้าใต้ดิน for getting out of MRT.

ii. You'll hear that some people, especially the new generations, say 'ขึ้นเรือ' for getting into a boat in both cases (even if the boats are lower). So, ลงเรือ or ขึ้นเรือ can be referred to getting into any kind of boats nowadays.

Edited October 17, 2009 by SoftWater