Pit Bull Query

[sceadugenga]

There's an 18 month old male pit bull running loose in our neighbourhood.

The first time I saw it, it was 4 or 5 months old and as friendly as a kitten so I said to the owner, a Thai who speaks good English "is that a.... errrr".

"Yes", he said, "it's a pit bull, I breed them in Pattaya".

I suggested that if it was allowed to run free it could cause mayhem amongst the village dogs. including mine, when it was older but he assured me it would be suitably restrained.

Yesterday, more than a year later, I saw it, still roaming loose, having a semi serious fight with another dog. My dog, which is always walked on a lead, has always played with and even bullied it a little but now it's three times his size.

So what is it with these dogs? All I know of them is the bad news, do they have to be trained to fight and kill or do they do it naturally?

If the owner won't look after it should I change my walk route? As in as far away from it as possible if I value my dog? (Which I do).

Once again, pit bull lovers I pass no judgement, I merely seek advice.

[skybluestu]

I think, unfortunately, the fact it is a Pit Bull will worry people whether it's a problem dog or not. It's probably behaving similar to many other male (un-nuetered?) dogs in the area but because it's a Pit Bull it gets peoples attention. Many people (not you Mr Sceadugenga) have an opinion of certain types of dog whether they realise it or not because of all the media attention they get, a story about a Pit Bull or Rottweiler attack will sell more papers than a poodle mauling a baby. I have a 7 month old female Rottweiler who is an absolute softie yet when I walk her people will move out of her way and point etc and if they have a kid they will pick them up and run away. This is a dog that only ever wants to play and is never aggressive to people or other dogs, in fact she hides behind me and trembles when other dogs growl/bark at her but because she's a Rottweiler people react like this. I'm no expert but I think you should treat this dog no differently from any other dog behaving in that way and avoid it if possible but not because it's a Pit Bull.

[sceadugenga]

I've trained the local dogs to give us a wide berth with the aid of my walking stick. What I've read about these things is they grab and don't let go so I don't want it to even come to a fight. I have no doubts that my dog will pick one given the opportunity, he's agressive but harmless.

I'm watching out for the owner to have a chat to him but, while he's perfectly friendly, I don't hold out high hopes for responsible dog ownership.

[lannaman]

20 months ago we had a little puppy pit bull left with us. The owner was my wife's niece's boyfriend - rather an unsavoury character. They were staying in our wooden guest house, after 3 weeks the man had a testicle problem and a 10,000 bill at the hospital. He borrowed this from a mate, and a few days later heading in the mountains, on his return he was apprehended by the dramruat, and sent to khook for 4 years.

So the pup was ours. In some repects she was a lovely affectionate dog. Three months ago she started attacking other dogs, she especially picked on golden retrievers. On separate occasions she nearly killed a pair of youngish goldens in our soy. Once she buried her teeth into their flesh it took all my strength to pull her off. On one occasion she grabbed a tail as the dog retreated into a whole in it's wall, leaving the poor dog dangling on the other side. Quite a funny site apart from the screaming dog.

Three weeks ago she grabbed hold of out the paw of our neighbours large ridge back through their iron gate. It took 15 minutes to remove her. The other dog is still limping.

Two days after that there was a dog in our yard when I returned from walking her at 6am. She got it under the pick up and it took about 15 minutes to get her off. Dunno whose dog it was but it went off in a very sorry state.

Well that decided it: she had to go. So I took here to the government veterinary surgery and had her put to sleep. Very sad as normally when out of rage she was a lovely animal but we could just not risk her getting in a mad rage with any person and especially any child. I did it with a very heavy heart as I love all animals.

Our other little dog and our cat are VERY happy about it, they never liked her and both now are full of life.

So I certainly would avoid this breed and I can understand why they are banned in the UK.

Edited October 11, 2009 by lannaman

[stiggy]

Im afraid it will not mix well if challenged by other dogs and being super strong as they are will cause harm to other dogs.

Have similar problems in the gulf everyone seems to have either Pitbull or rotties ,I have neighbors that are to scared to walk in there own soi when they fear the buggers are out. personally I just put the fear of christ up the dogs myself and they leave me alone.

However its not pitbulls that are at fault its the owners ,for not understanding the power and mentality they and other large dogs have.

There are also many owners that do understand them and have loyal controlled dogs at there side.

Within 10 posts some one will compare it to a loose poodle.

Edited October 11, 2009 by stiggy

[Garret]

I love the breed and have known most of them to be fantastic dogs...most of the ones I know want to be lap dogs....and get along well with other dogs...HOWEVER......all the bulls I have known have had loving owners. It's all about that and early socialization with both other animals and people.........

A pit-bull allowed to run free most of the time will just become territorial to a larger area...mix that with there basic nature and it could be dangerous...

My buddy in the States has a giant pit bull male....He inherited a toy chihuahua that weighs a pound and a half and the two of them are inseperable.

If I were you I would avoid a lose pit as best you can ...

[pluto_manibo]

I have a blue "Bully" and she is a big softie and always plays with my other dog which is a 5 kilo jack-rat. I lost my rott of 9 yrs a few months back and never had a problem. The key to a well behaved and healthy dog is socialisation, discipline, care and love. Unfortunately these dogs can fall into the wrong hands and this is when accidents happen.

[katabeachbum]

I have a rottie, male, 2,5-3 years old by now. He s an angel, loose out on the street (private road), avoid fighting with other dogs, just stand still and look at them, head high, tail up. Some kids have been hitting him with sticks, he barks at them but remain on our side of the street so they can pass on the other side. Inside the property he is a very efficient guard dog. Barks when someone approaches the house when I sleep, gets really angry if someone touch the house or vehicles (still only when I sleep). Everyone we meet is afraid of this angel, even when walking with a leash. Thats my dog.

A rottie or pitbull alone out on the streets i would pass with as much distance as possible. There is no way to know how tolerant he is or where its limits are.

[rabcbroon]

comment deleted. we are discussing specific problems so if u have something negative to say about pit bulls then make it constructive, not inflammatory. once the thread becomes a 'hate pit bulls and rotties' type thread i will close it.

bina

Edited October 14, 2009 by bina

[F1fanatic]

Anyone who owns one of these dog should be put down with their animal. Pit bulls are the choosen pets of sociopaths - fact!

People making stupid comments without consideration or even qualifying those comments are bigoted idiots – fact.

[bina]

f1,

i took care of his comment so leave it at that .... thanks and he got warned.

bina

israel

[Chayakon]

Had a pitbull given to me years ago in the UK, great companion but while walking him he tried to grab every dog in sight, I took to carrying a 'breaking stick' to get him off any stray dogs that came too close but in the end I couldn't cure him of his bad habits, luckily a pal who had a bit of land took him.

A pitbull can be far more dangerous than any other breed of dog and if one was running loose on my soi I would be VERY concerned

[bina]

we all know that pit bulls have serious dog problems but lets keep the thread constructive; the problem could be with any breed of dog if its an aggrssive dominant male running loose and your dog is leashed. we have the same problem on kibbutz and frankly because of that, my small dogs are now non leashed dogs so they can run like the wind when a larger beast shows up; and we do have packs of feral dogs that have gotten braver recently and are roaming residential areas of the kibbutz and they arent pleasant animals... i have no real suggestion to make apart from either changing your walking route, or finding an other way of dealing with this guy as a 'breeder' (if he breeds, why is he letting good stock run loose in a village anyway)...

walking with big stick will not work with 'bullys' so perhaps tossing a tasty bone in an other direction as distraction could work: ive never tried this, but have used small rocks or pine cones tossed in opposite direction as distraction for aggressing dog...

bina

israel

[sceadugenga]

An interesting article in an Australian paper today.

Haven't seen the dog out for a couple of weeks now.

The owner, not the dog, is the issue

LYNNE BRADSHAW

October 21, 2009

What has been largely missing from the pit bull debate of the past few days is that dogs that attack people have owners. To focus our attention on the breed of the dog is to abdicate our responsibility to be accountable for the behaviour of our pets. The recent case in Victoria occurred because a dog owner allowed a poorly trained and poorly socialised dog to roam freely in a public place. So let's bring this issue back to where it started, with the owner of the dog. Only then will we get close to addressing the root of the problem.

We know that a dog's tendency to bite is the product of at least five factors: the dog's genetic predisposition to aggression; early socialisation to humans; its training or mistraining; the quality of its care and supervision; and the behaviour of the victim. Genetics is only one of these factors. In the wrong circumstances, any dog, regardless of size, breed or mixture of breeds can be dangerous. The RSPCA believes that deeming a dog as "dangerous" should therefore be done on the basis of its behaviour, not its breed.

In fact, studies have found that dog breeds subject to breed bans are no more likely to attack or cause more serious injuries than any other similarly sized dog. While there is some evidence that certain breeds may be genetically predisposed to aggressive behaviour, most research concludes that breed-specific legislation is unlikely to have a significant impact on the frequency of dog bites. Recent experience both here and overseas has also shown us that it is virtually impossible to effectively enforce such legislation.

It doesn't make a good headline, but at the heart of this issue is responsible pet ownership. The RSPCA firmly believes that dog-bite prevention strategies should focus on public education and training of both dogs and owners. That's why our approach centres on educating pet owners, educating the public, identifying problem behaviours early, encouraging the selection of dogs with appropriate behavioural characteristics, and pushing for better control and management programs for those dogs that are declared to be menacing or dangerous.

None of these strategies works without the others: without proper management programs by local governments, they all fall over. It's time for local councils to crack down on the owners of unregistered dogs and dogs that are known to be a nuisance or danger in their community. Councils should be much more proactive in dog control for all dogs, be they mixed breeds, pure breeds or restricted breeds. You shouldn't be allowed to breed a dog without a licence and breeding standards should be properly regulated.

Dogs are a treasured part of Australian, society but the reality is that as long as we share our lives with them, dog bites will be a risk. However, there is much we can do to reduce that risk. Firstly, never leave young children unattended with dogs, even a trusted family pet. Children are unpredictable and can often display what a dog perceives as threatening behaviour. Always ensure your dog is properly confined in your house or yard and under effective control when walking. Make sure your dog receives proper training and socialisation with other dogs and people from an early age, and if your dog does display aggressive or worrying behaviour, speak to your vet or your local RSPCA about a behavioural assessment. And lastly, if you're thinking of adopting a dog, make sure you research your options thoroughly to ensure you choose the best pet for your family situation and lifestyle.

Ultimately, the responsibility of a dog will always rest with the owner. It's convenient to blame the dog when things go wrong, but to ignore the human factor is a paltry attempt to address the issue from the wrong end. Dog attacks are a people problem. We must do far more to promote responsible pet ownership if we are going to reduce the incidence of dog bites in the future.

Lynne Bradshaw is national president of the RSPCA Australia.

The Age

Some interesting comments by readers.

[thaimiller]

I have a 2 year old male Pit bull terrier that is walked at least twice a day for at least an hour at a time, for the rest of the day he has the freedom of the outside of the house but he is secured behind a good sized wall and gate, he has a cage that is never locked so he can come and go as he pleases. From an early age he was socialised around other dogs, (admittedly other Pit Bulls in the area) and also around people. His attitude is great, in fact he's just a great dog to be around, saying that like all terriers at that age he's just daft and wants to play all the time. Like what has been stated if you love and look after any dog it will be loyal and loving back, if you mistreat them then they will turn no doubt about it. Good luck OP with the dog that roaming the streets, this is obviously a case of owner neglect and it should be him that is punished.

[sceadugenga]

Good post.

[bina]

ditto. finally.

was thinking of translating it to hebrew to put in kibbutz newspaper but theyll all think im a crazy american with my three dogs........

bina

[jonotes]

We brought our three year old Pit Bull Una to Thailand when we moved here. We have been here about three years and Una has adapted beautifully. We live in a gated house and have no issue with a free roaming dog since she is not allowed to roam, but all the neighbors on our Soi know her and love her. They gave her a wide berth at first but gradually came to realize she was a sweetheart. We also have a house on the beach in Cha Am and Una has made swimming in the Gulf of Thailand her number one favorite thing to do. She usually ends up attracting a large crowd who come to see the " Ma wei nam" All of the vendors and neighbors in Cha Am also love her and smile every time they see her. She has made several dog friends on the beach but I am cautious with her around the Soi dogs since they can be quite territorial and agressive. If you are a responsible Pit Bull owner you will avoid confrontations with other dogs whenever possible because a Pit Bull will defend itself and will probably win. You will be labeled the "Bad Guy" because your dog is a Pit Bull even though the other dog started the fight. These are some of the responsibilities that come with the ownership of a powerful animal. Una is the most loving and loyal dog I have owned. She listens to commands and is basically a big Teddy Bear....but..... she is a Pit Bull. Proper training and love can make any dog a wonderful pet. It all comes down to responsible ownership. If anyone is to be blamed for the attacks concerning Pit Bulls it would be the owners. As someone also mentioned, most dog attacks are not done by Pit Bulls, but it seems these are the only ones that make the News.

Joe C

[WaatWang]

Let me preface my reply by saying I am a pit bull owner, and have owned & fostered many over the years with different rescue organizations.

"So what is it with these dogs? All I know of them is the bad news, do they have to be trained to fight and kill or do they do it naturally?

If the owner won't look after it should I change my walk route? As in as far away from it as possible if I value my dog? (Which I do)."

Pits are *bred* to fight other dogs. Not all of them will get this trait, but by the time they're between 1-2 ys old you will know what kind of dog you have. It's a natural thing. Spay / neuter & training can go a long way to help them override this desire, but that requires very responsible owners. Seems where ever these dogs are, those types of owners are few & far between.

If I was out walking my dog and saw a pit running loose, you bet your bottom dollar I'd be giving it a wide berth. Best to carry pepper spray also. A stick is not going to do much for you unless it's a strong breaking stick, and even then you're using it after the dog has started to attack. Why put your own dog through that?

20 months ago we had a little puppy pit bull left with us. ... In some repects she was a lovely affectionate dog. Three months ago she started attacking other dogs, she especially picked on golden retrievers.

A perfect example - when they're between 1&2, these things start to happen. They're always loving affectionate animals as puppies, the desire to attack other dogs will begin when they are older. So you won't know what kind of dog you've got until around that age.

NOTE that pits LOVE LOVE LOVE people. They are awesome dogs for families. But most are not good around other dogs. What you will hear on the news when they are attacking people is 99.99% of the time when people jumped in to try & break up a fight between a pit & another dog, and got nailed.

walking with big stick will not work with 'bullys' so perhaps tossing a tasty bone in an other direction as distraction could work: ive never tried this, but have used small rocks or pine cones tossed in opposite direction as distraction for aggressing dog...

Yes any kind of distraction to get those eyes off your dog. Otherwise, dousing them with water or using pepper spray is the best way to get them apart and not get nailed yourself. Trouble with a soi dog is if you break up a fight successfully, then there is no way to separate them. If that dog is fixated on yours and you break up a fight, what is to keep them from coming after your dog again? Pepper spray is your best bet, so you can put some distance between the dog & yourself before it wears off.

I have a 2 year old male Pit bull terrier that is walked at least twice a day for at least an hour at a time, for the rest of the day he has the freedom of the outside of the house but he is secured behind a good sized wall and gate, he has a cage that is never locked so he can come and go as he pleases. From an early age he was socialised around other dogs, (admittedly other Pit Bulls in the area) and also around people. His attitude is great, in fact he's just a great dog to be around, saying that like all terriers at that age he's just daft and wants to play all the time. Like what has been stated if you love and look after any dog it will be loyal and loving back, if you mistreat them then they will turn no doubt about it. Good luck OP with the dog that roaming the streets, this is obviously a case of owner neglect and it should be him that is punished.

Awesome example of a repsonsible owner. Just want to clarify that even a pit brought up in a loving home can still turn against other dogs. One dog we adopted as a puppy was great until around 18 months and then started attacking our male pit. They are always great with people, but you've got a 50/50 shot they'll like other dogs, too, regardless of how much you love on them when they're puppies. It's not something they can control. They either have it, or they don't.

We brought our three year old Pit Bull Una to Thailand when we moved here. We have been here about three years and Una has adapted beautifully. We live in a gated house and have no issue with a free roaming dog since she is not allowed to roam, but all the neighbors on our Soi know her and love her. They gave her a wide berth at first but gradually came to realize she was a sweetheart. We also have a house on the beach in Cha Am and Una has made swimming in the Gulf of Thailand her number one favorite thing to do. She usually ends up attracting a large crowd who come to see the " Ma wei nam" All of the vendors and neighbors in Cha Am also love her and smile every time they see her. She has made several dog friends on the beach but I am cautious with her around the Soi dogs since they can be quite territorial and agressive. If you are a responsible Pit Bull owner you will avoid confrontations with other dogs whenever possible because a Pit Bull will defend itself and will probably win. You will be labeled the "Bad Guy" because your dog is a Pit Bull even though the other dog started the fight. These are some of the responsibilities that come with the ownership of a powerful animal. Una is the most loving and loyal dog I have owned. She listens to commands and is basically a big Teddy Bear....but..... she is a Pit Bull. Proper training and love can make any dog a wonderful pet. It all comes down to responsible ownership. If anyone is to be blamed for the attacks concerning Pit Bulls it would be the owners. As someone also mentioned, most dog attacks are not done by Pit Bulls, but it seems these are the only ones that make the News.

Joe C

Another awesome responsible owner. We just need more education and people like this.

There are some Thai owners here that are responsible - just last week we got a flat motorbike tire and went to a local repair shop on Beukhau (sp?). They had a big male pit, unneutered, sitting outside with them while they worked on the bikes. Came over to me and said hello, but he was not tied up. Other dogs would come by and they had trained him to grab one of the spare bike tires and hold onto that. Our dog is the same way. Give him something to hold onto in his mouth and it calms down that desire to go after another dog. He listened to his owner and was very well behaved.

Basically, pits can't help what they are. They are not bad dogs, but do require special handling. If you see one out loose - male or female - best to stay as far away as possible.

[drtreelove]

WaatWang presents a very intelligent post, but I must comment on this issue of responsible ownership as a nice myth, as I don't believe that there is any way, even the most responsible dog owner in theory can guarantee 100% control of their dog. Thinking you are a responsible owner gives a false sense of security, especially if you have children or your neighbor's do.

The German Shepard that attacked me when I was 12 years old was under the control of a professional guard dog trainer, in a training session at the time, on a lead with the handler thinking she was in full control when it broke away. I was delivering newspapers and did not provoke the dog in any way except to ride by on my bicycle and turn into the driveway next door. I threw the paper toward my customer's front door and looked up to see this 100 pound dog clearing the top of a 4 foot hedge, teeth bared. It hit me like a truck and drove me off my bike and into the ground with a grip on my thigh. It bit and shook its head until the handler came around and pulled it off.

The bite was painful and heavily bruised, but nothing, I mean nothing like the pitbull attack victims I saw as a paramedic ambulance attendent in big city USA for 5 years. I saw many dogbite victims; there are dog bites and then there are pitbull attacks, a whole different category, with massive deep lacerations, vascular and nerve damage. I won't go into it, there are pictures in my mind of a child with his face torn off that I really don't want to remember too much.

And the owners all say the same things that the people on this thread are saying, how sweet their dog was, how good it was with children and other pets, and they don't know how it got out, and they can't believe what it did. Don't fool yourselves, don't blame it on the newspapers and a bad rap. It's a bad breed! Not all individuals are bad, but don't risk it with others lives, they can go off unexpectedly; I don't care how responsible the owners claim to be.

Sorry Bina I have nothing constructive to say because of my personal experience, except maybe why keep an animal that is bred to kill and sometimes doesn't discriminate between other dogs and children. It's irresponsible. Don

[drtreelove]

I have to say that the damage that dogs do is minimal compared to what people do to one another. And the worst I saw was done onto family members. The hatchet murder of a 5 year old by his mother is another picture I'd like to forget, far worse than the pitbulls. That's when I decided to go back into my tree work profession. Trees can be hazardous, but not nearly as unpredictable and vicious as people.

By the way, if you think you are going to stop a full on pit bull attact with a stick or pepper spray you are dreaming. There are enough reports where a .357 magnum or shotgun hasn't stopped them. Their reputation is well deserved.

[bellagrego]

On the lighter side. I have been a breeder and a promoter of our best friends for many years. My observations are that the AMERICAN STRATFORD TERRIER, is one badass, dangerous , breed in general. You should see one hanging from an elevated rope for hours by the teeth of his mighty jaws. The common term , Pit Bull, is accurate. They fight to the death when pitted. Illegal , yes, but in the good ole USA, a form of Entertainment and wagering. Louisiana, Georgia Texas and others. Back on point. If you are going to go walking with you little friend I recommend a bodygaurd for him of the Thai variety. The wonderful, colorful, Thai Temple dog. Mr.Bangkaew. Get you one of these and never worry. He is pound for pound one tough cookie.

[drtreelove]

On the lighter side. I have been a breeder and a promoter of our best friends for many years. My observations are that the AMERICAN STRATFORD TERRIER, is one badass, dangerous , breed in general. You should see one hanging from an elevated rope for hours by the teeth of his mighty jaws. The common term , Pit Bull, is accurate. They fight to the death when pitted. Illegal , yes, but in the good ole USA, a form of Entertainment and wagering. Louisiana, Georgia Texas and others. Back on point. If you are going to go walking with you little friend I recommend a bodygaurd for him of the Thai variety. The wonderful, colorful, Thai Temple dog. Mr.Bangkaew. Get you one of these and never worry. He is pound for pound one tough cookie.

Bellagrego, I have a male BK mix and you're right, he's a tough little guy, loves the street life if he gets out of the yard, and doesn't want to come back until he gets hungry. He loves to fight and that's the problem, he engages too easily and triggers a fight when so unnecessary. Wheras our Portugese water dog mix could care less and somehow avoids the fight and heads for the nearest water pond or even a puddle to get wet. What a difference a breed makes.

But even though our BK takes on all comers and somehow comes out of it unhurt, I don't think he would last a minute with an aggressive pit-bull.

In my work as a tree service consultant and estimator I went into peoples backyards multiple times daily, sometimes the owners are at work and ask me to go look at their trees without anyone there, except the dog(s). So I encounter many dogs on their own turf. I've been bitten hard a couple of times and nipped countless times, and just made it over the fence or gate a few times too.

I love dogs, but always respect their instinct to protect their property, so I try to make friends and usually can win their tail wags at the gate before I dare to enter, even then I enter cautiously and let them take their time to get to know I am not a threat. Some dogs, no matter what breed are seriously defensive and I don't enter until the owner has them under control. Some breeds are predictably friendly like golden retrievers. Some are unpredictable like chows; got bit once from a sneak attack when I thought he was cooled down. But pit bulls, rotweilers, dobermans, german shepards and maybe some others can be very aggressive dogs, not my idea of a pet. But some people feel they need protection or they like the stigma that a feared dog represents.

My dogs are usually happy, wagging and ready to play, and that makes me happy too.

[merck]

...NOTE that pits LOVE LOVE LOVE people. They are awesome dogs for families. But most are not good around other dogs. What you will hear on the news when they are attacking people is 99.99% of the time when people jumped in to try & break up a fight between a pit & another dog, and got nailed...

A quick search on the BBC website brings up plenty of stories where the pit bull attacked a human, no other dogs involved. Not much 'love' involved here:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/comm..._says_Rukhsana/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6976444.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/774366.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/5287924.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6305057.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/47563.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/notting...ire/3847753.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4763119.stm

Whenever you see one of these dangerous breeds like pit bulls or Staffs being walked by its owner, there's invariably an air of menace about the dog. And it's owner, for that matter. Why anyone should be allowed to walk around in public with a dangerous animal off the leash, which if it attacked you, would be almost impossible to pull off and may even kill you, beggars belief. At the very least, there should be laws making it compulsory for them to be muzzled and leashed in public. Ideally the pit bull breed and the like should be put into a mincer and eradicated.

[bellagrego]

On the lighter side. I have been a breeder and a promoter of our best friends for many years. My observations are that the AMERICAN STRATFORD TERRIER, is one badass, dangerous , breed in general. You should see one hanging from an elevated rope for hours by the teeth of his mighty jaws. The common term , Pit Bull, is accurate. They fight to the death when pitted. Illegal , yes, but in the good ole USA, a form of Entertainment and wagering. Louisiana, Georgia Texas and others. Back on point. If you are going to go walking with you little friend I recommend a bodygaurd for him of the Thai variety. The wonderful, colorful, Thai Temple dog. Mr.Bangkaew. Get you one of these and never worry. He is pound for pound one tough cookie.

Bellagrego, I have a male BK mix and you're right, he's a tough little guy, loves the street life if he gets out of the yard, and doesn't want to come back until he gets hungry. He loves to fight and that's the problem, he engages too easily and triggers a fight when so unnecessary. Wheras our Portugese water dog mix could care less and somehow avoids the fight and heads for the nearest water pond or even a puddle to get wet. What a difference a breed makes.

But even though our BK takes on all comers and somehow comes out of it unhurt, I don't think he would last a minute with an aggressive pit-bull.

In my work as a tree service consultant and estimator I went into peoples backyards multiple times daily, sometimes the owners are at work and ask me to go look at their trees without anyone there, except the dog(s). So I encounter many dogs on their own turf. I've been bitten hard a couple of times and nipped countless times, and just made it over the fence or gate a few times too.

I love dogs, but always respect their instinct to protect their property, so I try to make friends and usually can win their tail wags at the gate before I dare to enter, even then I enter cautiously and let them take their time to get to know I am not a threat. Some dogs, no matter what breed are seriously defensive and I don't enter until the owner has them under control. Some breeds are predictably friendly like golden retrievers. Some are unpredictable like chows; got bit once from a sneak attack when I thought he was cooled down. But pit bulls, rotweilers, dobermans, german shepards and maybe some others can be very aggressive dogs, not my idea of a pet. But some people feel they need protection or they like the stigma that a feared dog represents.

My dogs are usually happy, wagging and ready to play, and that makes me happy too.

I was just kidding on the BK. The BK I love because he is the ultimate example of the male Thai. Compact but ready for a fight most anytime. They are beautiful as well. As you know, all dogs are pack animals and look to be a leader or lead if they can. The Pit bulls are the most independent breeds I know of. Singular or pack, bad to the bone.

I learned a trick from another breeder who told me how to establish that I am the leader. First thing, when one of your puppies get's too aggressive or doesn't mind your commands, control him, mobilize his teeth, take his ear into your teeth and bite down hard. Yelp, you bet, understand, uh huh. Message delivered and received. Works every time. Do you know of any BKs with a good blood line for sale around Isaan ?

bella

[skybluestu]

Some of the previous comments are ridiculous although, sadly, they don't surprise me. Easily influenced people often have a certain opinion of a breed as a whole because of a few one-off attacks reported in the media, not from any personal experience with that breed. The vast majority of Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shephards, Staffs etc ARE amazing family pets when loved and cared for like a family pet should be and with proper training and socialization when puppies. But these dogs are strong, powerful, very intelligent and easily trained, so if an irresponsible owner gets one and trains it to be aggressive then unfortunately there may be some fatal attacks but it's not because of what breed they are, it's because of the mentality of the dog due to how it was reared.

There are many many people out there with one or more of these dogs as a family pet who are great around people, both adults and children, and I doubt any of them have one because of any type of 'stigma'. It's actually hypocritical to say Yeah, I love Bangkaews as they are always ready for a fight and then in the same sentence say how dangerous and aggressive a certain breed of dog is don't you think.

My neighbour had Rottweilers when I was a kid and they were always fantastic dogs and great with myself and the other local kids so I didn't think twice when my wife came home and said she'd seen a beautiful Rottweiler puppy that she'd like us to have as a pet. She's now 8 months old and fairly big but even when she was 3-4 months old and obviously still a young playful puppy (which she still is) people avoided her when we started to walk her. The only reason for that is because of peoples irrational fear of Rottweilers or similar dogs due to the media, not from personal experience. Our dog is now very popular with everyone who knows her at the local Uni gardens where we walk her; the gardeners, joggers, students playing badminton etc pretty much anyone who sees her on her daily walks calls her name and will play with her, she's a total softie and cowers behind me if any of the other dogs being walked there show any sign of aggression towards her.

She's had lots of love, training and socialization and been treated like a member of the family with no aggression training and it shows, she's a very sweet-natured and loving dog. But people don't want to hear about her or the vast majority of these 'dangerous dogs' that are the same because it's the complete opposite of what people like to think about them!

[drtreelove]

It's actually hypocritical to say Yeah, I love Bangkaews as they are always ready for a fight and then in the same sentence say how dangerous and aggressive a certain breed of dog is don't you think.

That's not what I said, get it right please. I meant to indicate that was what I didn't like about my BK dog, but the main point was that I didn't think a BK would be a good bodyguard against a pit bull.

And I was trying to get past this re-ocurring cop-out about the news media and give some personal, real life experiences to support my belief that there are breed characteristics in behavior that transend many rearing and training issues.

Of course it always comes down to individuals, and I too know a Rotweiller who is a big teddy bear. And maybe a different Portuguese water dog will be a killer.

It's a good debate and I appreciate your comments even if you misquoted me on that one issue. don

Edited November 12, 2009 by drtreelove

[skybluestu]

It's actually hypocritical to say Yeah, I love Bangkaews as they are always ready for a fight and then in the same sentence say how dangerous and aggressive a certain breed of dog is don't you think.

That's not what I said, get it right please. I meant to indicate that was what I didn't like about my BK dog, but the main point was that I didn't think a BK would be a good bodyguard against a pit bull.

And I was trying to get past this re-ocurring cop-out about the news media and give some personal, real life experiences to support my belief that there are breed characteristics in behavior that transend many rearing and training issues.

Of course it always comes down to individuals, and I too know a Rotweiller who is a big teddy bear. And maybe a different Portuguese water dog will be a killer.

It's a good debate and I appreciate your comments even if you misquoted me on that one issue. don

Sorry, I thought this is what you said ' The BK I love because he is the ultimate example of the male Thai. Compact but ready for a fight most anytime.' which I did think was a bit hypocritical but if I read it out of context I apologise.

But I'm not having a go at you personally, it's obvious you've had a lot of interaction with many different breeds of dogs and you don't seem to be saying all Pits, Rottweilers etc are all vicious and child-killers but there are many who think like that unfortunately and it just isn't true. Any dog can be aggressive regardless of breed but if they are treated badly or had aggression training then I think it is more likely to happen and sadly Pits and Rottweilers, as well as others, often attract irresponsible owners who abuse them and train them to be aggressive. But the vast majority are loving, loyal and fantastic family pets, I wish more people would realise that.

Judge the deed, not the breed!

[merck]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle6917302.ece

[skybluestu]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle6917302.ece

Thanks for that link, it highlights the sorry situation in the UK where young chav kids are unfortunately using dogs as additions to their gangs but this just confirms that the saying 'There's no bad dogs, just bad owners' is true. Obviously a dog of any breed that doesn't have love, training and socialization from a very early age could be a difficult dog when it's older and even more so if abuse is dished out to it like I'm sure many of these kids do. But don't forget that for every story you read like that there are many many more untold stories about similar dogs that are family pets or used as therapy dogs etc if you search the internet for good you will find good, if you search for bad you will find bad!