Refused Again!

[bkkmadness]

Yeah, I was kind of thinking P.I. job as well, coz might save Spuds some money and a lot of heartbreak in the future.

[chonabot]

Sorry to hear this Spuds

I have followed your threads and occasionally contributed a bit, as I have been through a similar situation , except the wife actaully went to the Embassy on each occassion.

It's a bit like God telling the down and out that he will win the lottery , a few weeks later the tramp says to God " I thought I was going to win? I haven't yet!, Why not ?"

God replied " You have to meet me halway on this , at least buy a ticket!!"

Even turning up for the interview isn't a cert, but it sure helps.

I think there are 2 paths you can take.

1. Get over there, pref book an Interview first , send the dosh directly to the Embassy , have a heart to heart with your Gf, go together to the Embassy.

This way you will ensure that she goes , also that she Wants to go.

2. I think you can work this one out mate.

Chok Dee

[Doctor John]

Big Spuds, at the end of the day mate, you will only know yourself when you go back to Pattaya and see how things are between the 2 of you, I lived in Pattaya since 1990 and have pretty much seen it all.

I have see very plain girls being sent 20,000 a month by a guy and still work the bar..........On the other hand I have seen a stunning gal give it all up and go back home cos she was being sent 8000 baht a month by a guy she cared for.

I have known a girl that sold her gold to help out a Farang guy cos she liked him, I have known girls lend guys the money for a ticket home.

It's certainly not all one way traffic mate, and many of the girls are under pressure to provide for the Mother or Father that provided for them, Thai society works different to what a western guy is used to, it dont mean it's bad, it just means it's different to what many of us are used to. They probably think sticking aged parents in an old peoples home is very strange.

What I am trying to say is, If you are happy ( and it seems you could well be ), just go for it, if it's all a mistake, then it's a mistake, you will live to love another day. Don't beat yourself up over it, go back to Pattaya and have a good time, if it all goes tits up, you could be in a lot worse place to soothe an aching heart!

Have a good time!

[britmaveric]

Big Spuds, at the end of the day mate, you will only know yourself when you go back to Pattaya and see how things are between the 2 of you, I lived in Pattaya since 1990 and have pretty much seen it all.

I have see very plain girls being sent 20,000 a month by a guy and still work the bar..........On the other hand I have seen a stunning gal give it all up and go back home cos she was being sent 8000 baht a month by a guy she cared for.

I have known a girl that sold her gold to help out a Farang guy cos she liked him, I have known girls lend guys the money for a ticket home.

It's certainly not all one way traffic mate, and many of the girls are under pressure to provide for the Mother or Father that provided for them, Thai society works different to what a western guy is used to, it dont mean it's bad, it just means it's different to what many of us are used to. They probably think sticking aged parents in an old peoples home is very strange.

What I am trying to say is,  If you are happy ( and it seems you could well be ), just go for it, if it's all a mistake, then it's a mistake, you will live to love another day.  Don't beat yourself up over it, go back to Pattaya and have a good time, if it all goes tits up, you could be in a lot worse place to soothe an aching heart!

Have a good time!   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dr- getting soft on us? But good advice....

[bkkmadness]

yea, shocked by Dr J's post as well, exile done him some good

[bkkmadness]

Reputable Pattaya P.I. Firm.

[Digger]

Ive been to her family home and it explained itself why she doesnt stop there long, there is nothing to do, she has to sleep on the floor with 5 others in her family (i know its the thai way but,..) all her friends live in pattaya. She can go to the markets when she likes and she likes the beach, she can go the cinema go out with friends. When she stays home she has to work on the farm, has no TV, bad reception if any for phone calls. and about a 20 minute drive to the nearest shop, which she cannot do so she has to rely on lifts. I know where i would rather be.

She does go home quite a lot every 2 months or so for a week or 2.

She also stayed in pattaya to go to school, which finished last month. She also has 3 puppies. now she is has sent her dogs to the farm and is looking for work, to pay me back 

I think she has something lined up in a hotel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How did she get the dogs to the farm? Can't go on the bus surely?? - Seriously these are just excuses. If she has no money, then being at home is the best place to be as she will have nothing to spend any money on such as movies, markets, shops, top up cards for mobile phone. Cant help but think something more to this. If in school, you do not get a week or two off every 2 months. Every girl in this situation is more than capable of adapting back to these circumstances - dont forget they grew up in it and are quite capable of going back to it. Your somewhat naive to assume its a hardship for her in my humble opinion.

[BIG SPUDS]

a lot of you are quick to pass judgment on the basics of what i have wrote.

1. she did go to school as before she couldnt read any english nor speak a lot, now she can read a little and speak a lot more. ive seen the school books.

2. her uncle took her back to pattaya last time she visited home and collected the dogs and took them back. ive met the uncle and the dogs.

3. she does not have much money, and she never asks for it, and so what if she wants to go and see a movie once a month.

4. she did not go home while in school, it was a course of so many hours.

5. yes i do feel sorry for what little she has but she never ever moans about aht she doesnt have or what she wants.

6. If you was bored out of your brains where you lived for 28 years then moved around all your mates, shops, nightlife, tv, a bed etc etc wouldnt you want to stay there?

7. dont get me wrong i dont send her lots of money every month 7k baht. and she says i can send her less if i want. And yes she has offered to send me money in the past when i said i had no money.

8. i hold no grudges against her for helping out her family, i think its very good of her and i wouldnt expect anyless from her to do what ever it takes to help them. its the kind of girl she is.

9. i am happy, yes i am a little confused at the moment but, shes still crying thinking everythings gone wrong for us and asking me if i still want to stay with her even though she deserves for me to finish. she is scared!! whether it be cause she loves me or for the little money i send her. Which she says i can stop now and she will work to prove her love (in the hotel)

10 i have come to understand thais act and react and deals with things in a completley different way to us. but isnt that why we find them so attractive. For all there upsides there has to be downsides. its compromising both ways. to her i am different.

11. we have had a good chat tonight on the phone and have cleared a lot of things up. she has said she will never lie again and tell me any problems she has, she knows if she lies again its over. and a lot more stuff has been said now we are back to laughing with each other and looking forward to seeing each other and making up properly.

12. we can work this out one way or another. And i think it will work out ok. A few hiccups on the way but ive been with her 15 months now and only two little setback, not too bad compared to previous relationships. There is a lot of love from both sides.

13. the reason she didnt already have a job is that she has been to school, looking afer her dogs which she worships, travelling back and forwards home staying at home for a week or two swapping taking care of parents between sister and unable to find a job that will accomadate this she did work in a shop for a couple of months and now school is finished she has another job ready.

14. i dont need a PI i have mates who live in thaialnd who say she is never out with any of her mates in the bars and they always tell me where she is from friends and they coincide with what she tells me. she tells me if she is going to a bar to she her mates which she does everynow and then.

15. we will work this out, if i can make her understand i am there to be honest with and to help her when she needs help. i think she understands this now. And says she wants to forget about her stupid mistake and start again. She loves me and no feelings have changed, she still wants to come to england have kids and stuff.

[Joey Boy]

ohh well

[BIG SPUDS]

oh well!

meaning?

[dubstar]

May I recommend a novel by Stephen Leather entitled Private Dancer available to download free from his website, or I can e-mail you a copy. It's a work of fiction but chillingly accurate.

May I also give you some food for thought. Is your girlfriend expecting a large dowry on marriage?

Sorry mate, but it really does stink.

Dubstar

[penelope]

BS there is not a single forang living in Thailand who has a partner that does not lie to them,

&lt;deleted&gt;. Not ever farang marrys/partners with the type of woman that needs to lie. Which demographic groups is your scientific statistic based upon ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

BS there is not a single forang living in Thailand who has a partner that does not lie to them,

&lt;deleted&gt;. Not ever farang marrys/partners with the type of woman that needs to lie. Which demographic groups is your scientific statistic based upon ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Late evening beer inspired bar talk

[withnail]

I still have my doubts as do we all but may I just ask spuds how quickly you are planning on getting married? Coming to spend some time with her and make your own decision is definately the way to go however a one week holiday is barely adequate.

As otherstuff points out you need to spend some time with her to make up your own mind.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I still have my doubts as do we all but may I just ask spuds how quickly you are planning on getting married? Coming to spend some time with her and make your own decision is definately the way to go however a one week holiday is barely adequate.

As otherstuff points out you need to spend some time with her to make up your own mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It remains very 'iffy'. Hasten slowly Spuds.

[kreon]

did you meet her in a bar

its an old saying, once they in a bar, they never get out of a bar

old habits never dies, sending money to the family and then live on peanuts in pattaya does not make sense to me, she even offered to give you money herself and yet she's cannot pay the embassy fee's

why don't you take her to almighty on a 3-month visa and then see what's really about, and then make the big step

am afraid most of these gals have different agenda's and like to string you along

sucks

[chonabot]

did you meet her in a bar

its an old saying, once they in a bar, they never get out of a bar

old habits never dies, sending money to the family and then live on peanuts in pattaya does not make sense to me, she even offered to give you money herself and yet she's cannot pay the embassy fee's

why don't you take her to almighty on a 3-month visa and then see what's really about, and then make the big step

am afraid most of these gals have different agenda's and like to string you along

sucks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most of the above is a std response from Smug Bastards.

A 3 month visa has already been refused , so piss off with your Devil may care attitude.

I married a lady from a similar environment about 8 years ago , we're still cool with a nice family to boot.

Until you go down the same route , your advice/comments are hearsay.

[pedro01]

Most of the above is a std response from Smug Bastards.

A 3 month visa has already been refused , so piss off with your Devil may care attitude.

I married a lady from a similar environment about 8 years ago , we're still cool with a nice family to boot.

Until you go down the same route , your advice/comments are hearsay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed - you can't tar them all with the same brush.

I personally have not had any bad experience with Thai women. I married a year after living here - have a family & am very happy.

On the other hand, I have a friend that lost $100,000 to his wifes family - not happy.

Another that came on holiday, returned for 3 months & is now back in the UK with a baby & Thai wife. Very happy.

I think you should insist on her leaving Pattaya - it's dangerous to have here living there. Too many attractive farangs there for one.

It's much nicer up-country & there are cinemas, bowling alleys. shops etc. there too. You think it's a desert up there ?

Khon Kaen for instance is a pretty happening place. Her school friends will be there too. Better than hanging around with her pro friends.

My friends brother was in a similar situation - his girl told him she'd stay in Bangkok but had a job in a leather factory. Anyone remember the 12 girl shower lesbian show in Nana Plaza - carousel wasn't it ? When my friends brother returned from UK to see her - he popped into Carousel the night before he was due to meet her. You can guess the rest. The boy was gutted.

[Krub]

Hi BS,

I have a similar experience to yours which is ongoing and I am happy I had the courage to stick with it (it took the best part of 4 years).

As said it is in the Thai's nature to lie (but for them it does not have the same negative meaning as for us).

You need to 'educate' your partner to eradicate lies between you, she needs your help.

Good to pay for her schooling and board in Pattaya for the moment but :

Time to agree that she has to leave the bar scenes and give her the time to split from her bar friends and her accomodation in Pattaya. Offer her to pay for board and school upcountry for a while (near her village but must not be 'home'). That way you can keep contact (e-mail, phone, etc) She will make new 'real' friends.

It will be much cheaper for her and for you (on 10k, she can live very well upcountry). Go and visit upcountry and not in Pattaya, learn to understand and appreciate her background for as long as possible.

Then try the visa application together while you are on one of your visits.

Help her with keeping record of her finances and agreed to show her how it works (believe me they do not have a clue to keep a budget).

It might help if you encourage her to go to school for a trade she could use in or outside of Thailand as a hobby or as a job (remember her job was to please guys for money !) SHe needs to be helped with education, love and support in a good mixture.

The situation of giving some money to the parents out of the application money is typical of the non-budget educated Thais but I believe most of the time without bad intentions on the contrary.

Remember she comes from nothing and can very well go back to it.

Pattaya life is not 'real' it is a holiday camp.

Good luck I really hope it works for you but you need to be firm and help her to help herself. Pattaya makes it very difficult for her.

All the best

Edited March 30, 2005 by Krub

[Doctor John]

My friends brother was in a similar situation - his girl told him she'd stay in Bangkok but had a job in a leather factory. Anyone remember the 12 girl shower lesbian show in Nana Plaza - carousel wasn't it ? When my friends brother returned from UK to see her - he popped into Carousel the night before he was due to meet her. You can guess the rest. The boy was gutted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gutted?

I would have been thrilled and invited them all to welcome me back.

[Doctor John]

As said it is in the Thai's nature to lie (but for them it does not have the same negative meaning as for us).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a sweeping generalisation, like all Farangs are fat or all Japanese are cold hearted.

I understand what you are trying to say, but this general attitude of all Thai people lying is a myth, after 15 years in Thailand I met a fair few liars of the Farang variety, does that then mean all Farangs are liars?

Spuds will sort it out, but he won't do that here, he will do it in a few weeks time.

My first wife was the biggest bullshitter I have ever known, she was English.

[HarryHacker]

I feel for you BS.

BS and the 1000s of other stories are all very true, not just out of the latest 'work of fiction'

[Dragonman]

I agree to say it is in the Thai's nature to lie is a sweeping generalisation. Living in an area that is 99.9% Thai I can say that most people are as honest as in a Falang area.

However I would not say it is a generalisation to say "it is in the Thai's nature to lie where money is concerned ". I know nobody who does not lie or hide the facts about money and that includes my darling wife of 5 years. You simply have to deal with it and look after your own finances. When you live together you soon get to hear the alarm bells.

[HarryHacker]

Also, a 'lie' and 'telling you what you want to hear' are very close. I would say the later is more towards the truth.

[snoophound]

Well lets move forward.

Spuds is going back to thailand to sort things out.

How about some things to ask the prospective Mrs Spuds.

Does she really love you?

Why?What is her idea of perfect future,marriage?

Why does she want to come live in UK?

What does she know about uk?

Does she realise its a cold bleak place?

Does she know she may not be able to work?

Does she know theres no Tintong Thai TV?

What will she do all day while you are at work?

What is her expectation of what you will send to family every month for the rest of your relationship?

Does she know just becuase you are on the phone an hour a day to her that she may not be able to do same with family and friends?

Does she realise you may only get back there once a year?

Does she realise that the food in UK is shit....and good thai food is very hard to find?

I just got off a long chat session with a pattya gal who used to work for me.

Good girl ,studied english and never worked bar.

Married good looking young guy a year ago ,got visa went to London.

Hated it,Seprated after 6 mths.

"He not same man she know pattya"

Hates being frozen to death.Misses Food ,Family,Friends.

Has job now but hard to make ends meet.

HMM if you nice good looking guy I might ask my friend to have a chat!!!

I agree to say it is in the Thai's nature to lie is a sweeping generalisation. Living  in an area that is 99.9% Thai I can say that most people are as honest as in a Falang area.

However I would not say it is a generalisation to say "it is in the Thai's nature to lie where money is concerned ". I know nobody who does not lie or hide the facts about money and that includes my darling wife of 5 years. You simply have to deal with it and look after your own finances. When you live together you soon get to hear the alarm bells.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[billd766]

Big Spuds

I met my wife in a bar 12 years ago and after a couple of months I had to go and work elsewhere. I stayed in touch and came back after a year.

I was fortunate to be able to stay in Thailand for 3 years although I knew after a few months where my heart wanted to be. After 3 years I divorced my UK wife and when I was able to I married my Thai Lady.

Our 5th anniversary comes up next month and our son will be one in August.

I was a bit luckier than you as the forum was not running then so I did not get any "advice" from well meaning people.

All I suggest is that there are only 2 people involved in this, you and your girlfriend.

Go where your heart wants to go.

[Insight]

All I suggest is that there are only 2 people involved in this, you and your girlfriend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Such brilliant common-sense as the above in sharp contrast to "it's in all Thais nature to lie"...

There's nowt like diverse opinion.

[Lawnmower]

If there was only 600 baht left to pay ( and she didn't want to tell you), surely she could have borrowed from friends / family / etc or just pawn a little gold ? It's not much to make up.

[Krub]

As said it is in the Thai's nature to lie (but for them it does not have the same negative meaning as for us).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a sweeping generalisation, like all Farangs are fat or all Japanese are cold hearted.

I understand what you are trying to say, but this general attitude of all Thai people lying is a myth, after 15 years in Thailand I met a fair few liars of the Farang variety, does that then mean all Farangs are liars?

Spuds will sort it out, but he won't do that here, he will do it in a few weeks time.

My first wife was the biggest bullshitter I have ever known, she was English.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree I should have re-phrased. My knowledge of english is not good enough to do it sorry

[maerim]

now she is has sent her dogs to the farm

I personally think you are in with a chance here as a gift of food is always welcome.