'that Farang Done Me Wrong' Thread

[chiangmaibruce]

Urrghh. I can feel a rant coming on. With so many 'Thai done me wrong' tales on Thaivisa, how is it that when I think of how many Thais I deal with (and get stung by) versus how few farang I deal with (and get stung by), the farang side seems to win hands-down?? Perhaps the morals get left at home or something. Someone out there must know the answer.

Folks, today's story begins with a classified ad for our car - an oldie but a goodie that we need to get sold. I sprang out of bed this morning, bright eyed and bushy-tailed in the knowledge that I had two appointments organised for people to inspect this fine specimen of a Honda Civic.

Drove to Hillside 4 to meet a portly newly-retired American gent who inspected then test-drove it and was much impressed. Before even getting out of the car he said "I'll take it" (at the asking price) and we discussed arrangements for transfer etc. He seemed like a nice guy. Anyway we shook hands on the deal before he headed to Thai lessons, and Mrs CMB and I drove to the Transport Dept to find out what papers he would need. Oh, and we called the second guy to cancel our meeting. Whilst having lunch at the Transport dept our 'buyer' calls to say that he has just been called by someone else about another car he looked at some days before. As he had "made an offer" on that one before seeing ours, he said he would be buying that car instead. Ouch! I would have thought that a hand-shake deal trumped a mere offer, but hey I guess that's just my quaint way of thinking. Our second interested party wouldn't answer his phone when we called him again - hmm, wonder why?

My trust ... this guy's honour. Both got binned today. Welcome to Chiang Mai, Richard. Anyone know a Thai looking for a good used car?

[eek]

To be fair, this happens all over. When selling up before coming to Thailand, i was let down more times than i can remember by people saying they would buy xyz furniture item and will go to the bank and be back later (or the next day etc) with transport to pick it up. At times ended up having to call them up myself to say "are you still coming to collect" because they didnt even bother to ring back to cancel! Particularly frustrating when I had to tell other people interested that atm it looks like its sold and I cant offer it to you right now.

[mobs00]

I find other farangs, especially your own country men, are the ones most likely to rip you off in Thailand. I lost a lot of money on a deal because I took a man's (term used loosely) word as the truth; similar to your handshake scenario chiangmaibruce.

Edited October 15, 2009 by mobs00

[Daffy D]

Sadly the era of handshakes is gone, in any country.

Get a deposit

[sk1max]

Next time get a deposit and a handshake would be my advice, Honda civic? should be easy to sell, good luck.

[Benjie]

Obviously cost the American his deposit?

Until you have a deposit in your hands it isn't anywhere near a done deal.

[Spoonman]

What model Civic is it, whats the condition like and what sort of damage is the purchase peice.

[sangfroid]

I find other farangs, especially your own country men, are the ones most likely to rip you off in Thailand. I lost a lot of money on a deal because I took a man's (term used loosely) word as the truth; similar to your handshake scenario chiangmaibruce.

Join the club

[elektrified]

To be fair, this happens all over. When selling up before coming to Thailand, i was let down more times than i can remember by people saying they would buy xyz furniture item and will go to the bank and be back later (or the next day etc) with transport to pick it up. At times ended up having to call them up myself to say "are you still coming to collect" because they didnt even bother to ring back to cancel! Particularly frustrating when I had to tell other people interested that atm it looks like its sold and I cant offer it to you right now.

I agree with eek. This happens everywhere in the world. I've been selling things part-time for 11 years now and similar circumstances happen to me every week or two. Unless you get a deposit, don't count on anything.

[plaaduk]

Urrghh. I can feel a rant coming on. With so many 'Thai done me wrong' tales on Thaivisa, how is it that when I think of how many Thais I deal with (and get stung by) versus how few farang I deal with (and get stung by), the farang side seems to win hands-down?? Perhaps the morals get left at home or something. Someone out there must know the answer.

Folks, today's story begins with a classified ad for our car - an oldie but a goodie that we need to get sold. I sprang out of bed this morning, bright eyed and bushy-tailed in the knowledge that I had two appointments organised for people to inspect this fine specimen of a Honda Civic.

Drove to Hillside 4 to meet a portly newly-retired American gent who inspected then test-drove it and was much impressed. Before even getting out of the car he said "I'll take it" (at the asking price) and we discussed arrangements for transfer etc. He seemed like a nice guy. Anyway we shook hands on the deal before he headed to Thai lessons, and Mrs CMB and I drove to the Transport Dept to find out what papers he would need. Oh, and we called the second guy to cancel our meeting. Whilst having lunch at the Transport dept our 'buyer' calls to say that he has just been called by someone else about another car he looked at some days before. As he had "made an offer" on that one before seeing ours, he said he would be buying that car instead. Ouch! I would have thought that a hand-shake deal trumped a mere offer, but hey I guess that's just my quaint way of thinking. Our second interested party wouldn't answer his phone when we called him again - hmm, wonder why?

My trust ... this guy's honour. Both got binned today. Welcome to Chiang Mai, Richard. Anyone know a Thai looking for a good used car?

Whether it is farang or Thai if you want to sell something and someone accepts your offer,business deals demand a payment of a deposit to ensure he is serious about the deal. You don't make business deals just with a handshake.Get real ,man!

[OxfordWill]

nothing to do with Thailand mate. Will happen everywhere if your luck is out.

[amexpat]

Gee, do ya think he should have gotten a deposit?

Has anyone told him he should get a deposit?

Should someone else tell him to get a deposit?

Maybe (way) too late to be the first one to tell him, but maybe you can be most emphatic. (about a deposit, that is).

Edited October 15, 2009 by amexpat

[gotlost]

Thank TV would give us a "That Farang Do Me Wrong Form"

[Ulysses G.]

I guess it depends on what you would do if you were in the American guy's shoes.

I will admit that if the first deal was much better and cash had not exchanged hands, I might convince myself that I would be stupid not to back out, but I would feel a little guilty at the same time.

However, I was not brought up in the era of a handshake having a great deal of meaning outside a greeting.

[slapout]

If a mans word, sealed with a handshake is not binding to both parties in today's society, its truly a indication of the way the world is heading. Yes, deposits are one way of doing business, but if this is a requirement of your business contacts/contracts, then I do not envy your business. I was brought up where a mans word was his bond with or without the handshake, guess old age does have its drawbacks in more ways than we realize.

[mobs00]

^^ Neither was I. But I was brought up with enough self respect and dignity that if I gave someone my word I would honor it even if it's was at my expense. Maybe it's old fashioned but keeping your word shows a lot about character.

Edited October 15, 2009 by mobs00

[lannarebirth]

Rather than anyone being "done wrong" here, I would be inclined to see this as an unfortunate series of events. I understand that from the OP's perspective it looks different, but it would appear that given the information each party had at the time, that they each acted in good faith. That the guy who rescinded his offer called to tell you that his circumstances had changed seems not the act of a dodgy person.

Edited October 15, 2009 by lannarebirth

[sassienie]

Urrghh. I can feel a rant coming on. With so many 'Thai done me wrong' tales on Thaivisa, how is it that when I think of how many Thais I deal with (and get stung by) versus how few farang I deal with (and get stung by), the farang side seems to win hands-down?? Perhaps the morals get left at home or something. Someone out there must know the answer.

Folks, today's story begins with a classified ad for our car - an oldie but a goodie that we need to get sold. I sprang out of bed this morning, bright eyed and bushy-tailed in the knowledge that I had two appointments organised for people to inspect this fine specimen of a Honda Civic.

Drove to Hillside 4 to meet a portly newly-retired American gent who inspected then test-drove it and was much impressed. Before even getting out of the car he said "I'll take it" (at the asking price) and we discussed arrangements for transfer etc. He seemed like a nice guy. Anyway we shook hands on the deal before he headed to Thai lessons, and Mrs CMB and I drove to the Transport Dept to find out what papers he would need. Oh, and we called the second guy to cancel our meeting. Whilst having lunch at the Transport dept our 'buyer' calls to say that he has just been called by someone else about another car he looked at some days before. As he had "made an offer" on that one before seeing ours, he said he would be buying that car instead. Ouch! I would have thought that a hand-shake deal trumped a mere offer, but hey I guess that's just my quaint way of thinking. Our second interested party wouldn't answer his phone when we called him again - hmm, wonder why?

My trust ... this guy's honour. Both got binned today. Welcome to Chiang Mai, Richard. Anyone know a Thai looking for a good used car?

Whether it is farang or Thai if you want to sell something and someone accepts your offer,business deals demand a payment of a deposit to ensure he is serious about the deal. You don't make business deals just with a handshake.Get real ,man!

Well, yes to a point.

The OP has just learned how some people can be complete, A/hols.

I always insist when doing deals like this, that nothing is reserved until a resonable deposit is paid and the business will not be completed until full payment has been made.

Anyway, it`s an experience learned, all part of life, once bitten twice shy.

[elektrified]

^^ Neither was I. But I was brought up with enough self respect and dignity that if I gave someone my word I would honor it even if it's was at my expense. Maybe it's old fashioned but keeping your word shows a lot about character.

There is a lot of truth to this statement and I agree. Sadly, the world has changed a lot...

[chiangmaibruce]

But I was brought up with enough self respect and dignity that if I gave someone my word I would honor it even if it's was at my expense. Maybe it's old fashioned but keeping your word shows a lot about character.

Well said mobs, and my point entirely. I too have, an occasion, lost money because I kept my word, even though the other party would have had no 'come-back' at me. It's just the decent thing to do. If you don't have decency and/or act in a way which presume no-one else has decency, then what have you got? ... A world populated by people whose moral compass is such that "anything is OK if you can get away with it"?

And as to the notion that "it's the way of the world now", and thus one should accept it and live your life accordingly .... well in southern Thailand the way of the world is to drive up on a motorcycle and shoot a stranger. Accept that? I don't think so

And for the record, I do as rule get everything in writing, get a deposit, etc etc. In fact I've taken stick over the years for not trusting people enough. It's just nice to sometimes relax the paranoia and extend a little faith. You know, in the hope of being uplifted rather than let down.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

you had the first of the 5 necessary requirements for a valid contract in the english speaking world.

1) offer and acceptance ? yes

2) consideration ? no - if he gave you even 10 baht then okay

3) intention to be legally bound? nope

4) third parties ? did you have proof of clear title without claim or loan in jurisdiction? not likely

5) formalities and writing ? nope

The key was consideration. Until consideration (deposit) etc is tendered then its a unilateral contract and not enforceable

What are the requirements for a legally enforceable deal in Thailand?

[chiangmaibruce]

Well it's a good thing I wasn't planning on suing him then

Needless to say there is valid difference between was is legally permissible and morally acceptable

[el jefe]

you had the first of the 5 necessary requirements for a valid contract in the english speaking world.

1) offer and acceptance ? yes

2) consideration ? no - if he gave you even 10 baht then okay

3) intention to be legally bound? nope

4) third parties ? did you have proof of clear title without claim or loan in jurisdiction? not likely

5) formalities and writing ? nope

The key was consideration. Until consideration (deposit) etc is tendered then its a unilateral contract and not enforceable

What are the requirements for a legally enforceable deal in Thailand?

I'm sure you didn't learn that in law school.

Contract law varies from country to country and even from state to state in the US.

The only one of the 5 formalities that the OP failed was the intention to be legally bound since both parties understood that neither would wind up in court if they backed out.

Most oral contracts are legally binding and future consideration is almost always acceptable. Your item 4 has nothing to do with the contract.

I have no idea how contract law differs in Thailand, if it does.

[Puwa]

Hey CMB, ignore all the Thai Visa morons who harp on the deposit. The internet makes it all too easy to anonymously bark at strangers, and those with low self esteem or few social outlets can't resist the opportunity. A good Honda Civic should sell fast at the right price.

[Bolo]

^^ Neither was I. But I was brought up with enough self respect and dignity that if I gave someone my word I would honor it even if it's was at my expense. Maybe it's old fashioned but keeping your word shows a lot about character.

Don't feel alone. I am the same way. And as you said, if it cost me more because of it so be it. Probably poor business at times but they know I'll be the one they can come back to and feel they won't be ripped off no matter what it is. As a friend or business associate.

One thing I've really learned over the years is I'm the only normal person out there.

[NancyL]

We ran a retail business before coming to Thailand, so we know this isn't unusual. We also had many incidents like this when we closed up the business and sold our inventory and assets piece-meal.

As mentioned, we didn't consider it a "done" deal until we had a deposit and even then we had some trouble closing a few deals. People would come back with hard-luck stories, want to cancel the deal and get their deposit back. The real headaches were the people who paid for stuff, saying they would be back later to pick it up and then didn't show up. In a couple of cases, it was more than just us having to wait around for people who didn't come at appointed times. In one case, we pointed out we were leaving for Thailand on a certain date and if they didn't pick up their already-paid-for stuff, then we were just going to set it out by the road as we left for the airport in the hopes they came by before scavengers or the trash-pickup people.

We always made it a practice to secure phone numbers and email address of people interested in an item in case the original "deal" fell thru, even on an already paid-for item. If it was still in our possession, we let people look at it and just added their name to the waiting list.

[krading]

He was an American, remember.

(flame doors open, flame away)

[Ulysses G.]

Like no one else would back out on a deal.

[PeaceBlondie]

I sold my first two motorcycles three times each. To Americans, in the USA. Got all my money, too, because I kept their deposits. Sold a very used (55,000 mile) 1982 Yamaha 550 on 60% down and contract for deed. Bought a big old house on contract for deed (against lawyer's advice) and sold it at huge profit. Got screwed out of a second mortgage by the realtor who bought the next house. You win some and lose some, Everywhere.

[Blinky Bill]

Does anyone remember the London Syndicate back in the 1990's?

This very smooth English gentleman, whose name will be limited to David, took Chiang Mai expats and Thais for a total of US$800,000.

He was nailed by Interpol for jumping bail in the UK on fraud and incest charges then held in Chiang Mai to face charges here but happily died in the Chiang Mai prison.