Is Thaksin Planning A Juan Peron-style Comeback?

[animatic]

In hindsight, the coup was the huge mistake escalating the political crisis. prem, as the architect of the coup, basically screwed country in one of the biggest stuff ups in the history of thailand.

The stuff up would have happened coup or not.

And with the world economy in the hopper,

We are quite lucky Thaksin's demise came sooner than later,

because the country would have been utterly rudderless while

the inevitable carnage of removing him took place.

There is absolutely no proof Prem was the archtect of the coup, just innuendo.

Thaksin's minions need some target and the one the seem to want they can't touch.

Prem is a perfect target because typically he is the 2nd quietest man in the land.

[tomahawk]

First there was the airplane and now the whitewashing and the sociological something. Some people continue to complicate things. There must be lawyers and politicians involved in this discussion. What is so complicated? Thaksin and every other politician here are looking out for themselves and looking to make money and more money. What I am trying to say over and over is that I think Thaksin is better than the other candidates who are or have been running the country. Abraham Lincoln or Winston Churchill are not in the running and probably wouldn't get elected here if they were. What you and I think of as corruption is accepted procedure and has been for centuries. For that matter, it is in the west too, although it is less condoned. Now we have people here going on about how bad the economy would be if thaksin were in charge. The economy was actually good when he was. I am pretty sure most of the people ranting on about how bad Thaksin was for Thailand are aware that in an open election he would be reelected. The elites know this and the fact is they are so obsessed with their hatred of Thaksin because he would win an election and blow their whole plan of deciding among themselves which one of them gets to run the country, since the whole country except for them must be too stupid as they don't know who they are supposed to vote for.

[brahmburgers]

quote from sbk, "Unless you live in the South, which was not only neglected (google thaksin and the Hat Yai floods) but the problems with the Muslims were exacerbated by his heavy hand." Thaksin did say that those who voted for him would get helped first and went on to prove it by his attitude towards the South. That, to me, does not speak of doing good for the entire country at all much less of good governance at all.

when did Thaksin said that: 'that those who voted for him would get helped first'?

I don't think those were the exact words but he made it quite clear that development funds would only go to those constituencies which supported him.

so is that merely an interpretation. a perception and sentiment coming from somebody who don't like Thaksin, right?

I have tried to find the exact quote to no avail for several years. Anyone got it?

I remember it caused a huge stink when he was supposed to have said it. Can't find it though.

I remember hearing it also, clear as day, but I don't have the time nor inclination to spend a bunch of time trying to find it. The proof is in the old adage: "follow the money."

....and sure enough, if you follow where Thai government funds went (disguised as T's personal magnanimity), you'll see it went mostly to the places where he got the strongest voting support.

Edited October 25, 2009 by brahmburgers

[animatic]

I witnessed Thaksin sticking it to the South big time via their budgets.

So I have no qualms thinking he would do it again if given the power to do so.

Thaksin benefited from a vibrant World Economy, not the economic mastery his

Thaksinomics hyperbole lead some less informed souls to believed whole cloth.

He said himself he lost a big pile in this turn down, and I see no reason to:

a ) Not believe he missed the signs and screwed the pooch

b ) Imagine he would have done better if he was still at the national controls,

than he did with his own investments.

c ) Imagine that his control of PPP does not put paid to any rebuttles

that he would have weathered this storm better than the Dems are.

At least the current Government has done SOMETHING towards shoring up the sinking ship.

PPP missed the boat in office, and their dregs, the PTP, has not even come up with a plan

in 10 months as titular opposition. Thaksin was in control of PPP and PTP, so where is

his vaunted good advice to save the nation? Oh that's right he won't help the nation,

until he is let back in as boss.... Altruism to the very end, eh Dr. T.?

But Cambodia is now going to benefit from his economic pearls of wisdom,

Chockdee! they'sa gonna need it!

Edited October 25, 2009 by animatic

[Crushdepth]

In hindsight, the coup was the huge mistake escalating the political crisis. prem, as the architect of the coup, basically screwed country in one of the biggest stuff ups in the history of thailand.

Screwing the country? How? Thailand has never had an effective government. The civil service continues to operate pretty much the same no matter what bunch of muppets are notionally in control. Government 'policy' only exists on paper and painted on the side of flying pigs.

The Thai economy is run by business, the government has bugger all say in it. They just like to pretend that they do.

[sbk]

Unless you live in the South, which was not only neglected (google thaksin and the Hat Yai floods) but the problems with the Muslims were exacerbated by his heavy hand.

Thaksin did say that those who voted for him would get helped first and went on to prove it by his attitude towards the South. That, to me, does not speak of doing good for the entire country at all much less of good governance at all.

when did Thaksin said that: 'that those who voted for him would get helped first'?

I don't think those were the exact words but he made it quite clear that development funds would only go to those constituencies which supported him.

so is that merely an interpretation. a perception and sentiment coming from somebody who don't like Thaksin, right?

I have lived here for more than a few years and recall the floods in CM when he was PM. Govt aid arrived the next day. A month or two later Hat Yai was flooded far worse, and it took a week for government aid to arrive. This was after his famous speech, of which, I cannot quote you the exact quote, but the meaning was quite clear to all.

I don't know that his quote is on the internet any longer (altho I am sure someone willing to search back quite a few years will find it here on TV), but I can guarantee you that every Southerner recalls the substance of it quite clearly. Why not ask a few Thai people if they recall it before assuming I am making up something?

[tomahawk]

I recently read this old article in Time magazine where numerous economic and political experts were saying how great a job Thaksin was doing making Thailand economy stronger. No one is ever going to say that about the current government at the rate it is going. It is true the world economy was better then. But not everyone was doing all that great. Thaksin did more for Thailand than the current administration. This is all I am saying. Thaksin at least did something. Since he left no one has done anything except talk.

[animatic]

Unless you live in the South, which was not only neglected (google thaksin and the Hat Yai floods) but the problems with the Muslims were exacerbated by his heavy hand.

Thaksin did say that those who voted for him would get helped first and went on to prove it by his attitude towards the South. That, to me, does not speak of doing good for the entire country at all much less of good governance at all.

when did Thaksin said that: 'that those who voted for him would get helped first'?

I don't think those were the exact words but he made it quite clear that development funds would only go to those constituencies which supported him.

so is that merely an interpretation. a perception and sentiment coming from somebody who don't like Thaksin, right?

Came from his own mouth, and was repeated by two losing TRT candidates,

as they announced the Tesseban budget would be slashed.

[sbk]

indeed, I am not the only one who perceived it that way,

from Thailand guru in an actually rather flattering portrayal of K Thaksin:

Thaksin even proclaimed in a speech before the last (sham) election that the voting districts who vote for his party will get preferential treatment for government money, implying that those who vote for another candidate will lose out. The press grilled him for that. Of course, this is normal in porkbarrel politics, but it's not something a politician should just go out and proclaim. It was brash.

www.thailandguru.com/thaksin-shinawatra-military-coup.html

[animatic]

I recently read this old article in Time magazine where numerous economic and political experts were saying how great a job Thaksin was doing making Thailand economy stronger. No one is ever going to say that about the current government at the rate it is going. It is true the world economy was better then. But not everyone was doing all that great. Thaksin did more for Thailand than the current administration. This is all I am saying. Thaksin at least did something. Since he left no one has done anything except talk.

Thaksin had a booming world economy to work with.

He made political sunshine from it, but it wasn't hard to do then.

He also was utterly vindictive against those who didn't buy his lines of blather.

Conversely as things turn bad, his own crew completely missed any chance to

make corrects as the sky was falling, Chicken Little had more on the ball

than Thaksin and his twin puppets, Samak and Somchai.

Pygmalion he never was, nor will be. Surely not even a Gepeto.

Abhisit has inherited a mess made worse by their malfeasance and ineptness.

He's doing well considering what little is available to do it with.

Edited October 25, 2009 by animatic

[sbk]

so is that merely an interpretation. a perception and sentiment coming from somebody who don't like Thaksin, right?

Came from his own mouth, and was repeated by two losing TRT candidates,

as they announced the Tesseban budget would be slashed.

Its interesting what one finds when one looks.

http://www.managerradio.com/Radio/DetailRa...program_id=2063

"Those provinces that gave their trust in Thai Rak Thai will be our priorty."

[Publicus]

I have lived here for more than a few years and recall the floods in CM when he was PM. Govt aid arrived the next day. A month or two later Hat Yai was flooded far worse, and it took a week for government aid to arrive. This was after his famous speech, of which, I cannot quote you the exact quote, but the meaning was quite clear to all.

I don't know that his quote is on the internet any longer (altho I am sure someone willing to search back quite a few years will find it here on TV), but I can guarantee you that every Southerner recalls the substance of it quite clearly. Why not ask a few Thai people if they recall it before assuming I am making up something?

I was in Satun province at the Malaysian border during 2005-06 at the time a huge development project was underway, involving dredging the harbor and reconstructing it, building heavy duty roads for large long haul trucks and extending the railroad line thru the province to the harbor. The beaches have classic Thai style restaurants, beautiful tourist islands lay off the shore.

The word was all over the province to vote for Thaksin or else. There had to be a re-vote in two precincts but the Democrat still won by a handful of votes. Fortunately, Thaksin got too tied up by Sondhi to pay much attention to revenge but had Thaksin not been so distracted, the development of the province would have gone to the devil for sure.

[Yoshitaka]

"Prem is a perfect target because typically he is the 2nd quietest man in the land." - Animatic

I wonder who is the quietest man in the land? Chuan?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Yoshitaka

[tomahawk]

Now it is Gepeto and Chicken Little and Pygmalion. Are they all on the airplane with Thaksin? My whole point was Thaksin did a lot for the country. Now this has somehow turned into theories about what would happen to economy if Thaksin were here and how Thaksin lost money and somehow Chicken Little didn't see the sky falling. I just said Thaksin did a lot for poor people and I think basically did a better job than those who have been in power since, I think there should have been a trial before he was removed from office, and he would be reelected if he were allowed to run again. Period.

[LindsayBKK]

I wish thaivisa would stop talking about this person.

He has to go direct to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

If he is takes a position as an Economic Adviser in Cambodia, Abhisit should close the border.

Cambodia needs Thailand more than Thailand needs Cambodia.

[rixalex]

Now it is Gepeto and Chicken Little and Pygmalion. Are they all on the airplane with Thaksin? My whole point was Thaksin did a lot for the country. Now this has somehow turned into theories about what would happen to economy if Thaksin were here and how Thaksin lost money and somehow Chicken Little didn't see the sky falling. I just said Thaksin did a lot for poor people and I think basically did a better job than those who have been in power since, I think there should have been a trial before he was removed from office, and he would be reelected if he were allowed to run again. Period.

It's obviously a complete waste of time responding to your comments. What you have said above is what you have already stated a dozen times already, and people, myself included, have responded to those comments, but all you do is return to trotting out the same old tired lines..."Thaksin did a lot of good".... "Thaksin should have been tried before being removed"... blah blah blah.

Just keep on parroting those same old words and perhaps someone else might get swept along as you have, ears closed, eyes shut.

[rixalex]

I wish thaivisa would stop talking about this person.

I appreciate those sentiments, but all the while he remains a thorn in the country's side, he will be the subject of debate.

[animatic]

"Prem is a perfect target because typically he is the 2nd quietest man in the land." - Animatic

I wonder who is the quietest man in the land? Chuan?

I guess the exceedingly obvious takes a few more seconds to cotton too...

[animatic]

Now it is Gepeto and Chicken Little and Pygmalion. Are they all on the airplane with Thaksin? My whole point was Thaksin did a lot for the country. Now this has somehow turned into theories about what would happen to economy if Thaksin were here and how Thaksin lost money and somehow Chicken Little didn't see the sky falling. I just said Thaksin did a lot for poor people and I think basically did a better job than those who have been in power since, I think there should have been a trial before he was removed from office, and he would be reelected if he were allowed to run again. Period.

Again you ignored the fact he had a great economy to work with.

He did very loudly and politically throw some crumbs towards the north,

and in particular their political operatives and puyai networks.

All the while plundering the coffers of all Thais.

If he has clearly done it for the proper reasons, and in a sustainable way, this would be great,

but he didn't, and he is trying to dine off of latent perception, and not hard facts on the ground.

And you also ignore the point that to follow legal paths when he was illegally trying all avenues to

circumvent that ending would have brought us to the same pass, and likely with much worse

consequences than the ones we have now. In one sector he did some gains for political profit,

in others he raped the economy to hold on to his power in the other...

That isn't leadership that is rapaciousness.

This doesn't excuse the coup, even as they ARE SOP in Thailand,

but the tales of woe would not have been so far off from now, if it hadn't happened.

And likely much bloodier. Shipping Moo, is but a bellweather of what that alternate

future would have likely brought.

PS. he was not a mandated PM when removed, he squandered his mandate,

but a caretaker trying to hang on to power by hook or crook... many crooks actually.

He was clearly on the cusp of dictatorship if things had gone on only a few notches.

And his wrath at those who had opposed his autocratic reign would have been excessive.

Since this thread is about his rising from the Peronist ashes and regaining his peak,

discussing his past mindset is extremely valid vis a vis his future potentialities.

Edited October 25, 2009 by animatic

[steveromagnino]

so is that merely an interpretation. a perception and sentiment coming from somebody who don't like Thaksin, right?

Everything in the media is an interpretation.

Anyhow, a few summaries of the Thai press after the 2005 election:

Survey of the Thai-language press: the by-elections - November 1, 2005

Translated and summarized from the Thai-language press

Thairath (usually pro government)

After the by-election in four areas and knowing the official vote, the opposition parties are happy that opposition MPs now reach 125. This means they will be able to call no-confidence debates on ministers concerning corruption issues. Meanwhile Thaksin Shinawatra said during his mobile cabinet meeting at Nakornsawan Province that Nakornsawan is the province that trusts TRT and select all TRT MPs so this province will get privileges to help specifically. Provinces that trust TRT less will be helped later in a queue. He said this frankly and revealed to the media what he thought.

Bangkokbiznews (Krungthep Turakij, at this time was generally neutral leaning anti government as part of The Nation Group)

Thaksin surveyed at Nakornsawan Province and repeated to take care provinces which elect Thai Rak Thai first and specially. TRT jeered the opposition party that even though they received 125 votes, it will have no effects on politics.

Or maybe you want Dow Jones Newswire service to comment....again only a quote from an MP, but an opinion none the less.

DJ Thai Flood Deaths Hit 52; Situation Critical - Officials

BANGKOK (AP)--Three weeks of flooding in southern Thailand have left 52 people dead and thousands stranded without provisions in remote areas inaccessible to rescue teams, officials said Thursday.

Unrelenting rains began early last month and have flooded most of the southern region since mid-November, affecting nine of the country's 14 southern provinces.

Pensri Kheawkumpai, a disaster official in Nakorn Srithammarat, said 12 people have died in the province. Kaj Sentoyep, a disaster official for the deep south of Thailand, said 40 people have died in the seven southernmost provinces.

A local government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he didn't want to be seen as criticizing the central government, said tens of thousands of people were stranded without necessary supplies.

"Food and water are running out for thousands of families who live in remote areas that the rescue team have not yet reached," the official said.

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has played down the severity of the floods, saying Wednesday that "they were not as bad as the tsunami." He hasn't toured the region, saying local officials can handle the situation.

Thaksin on Tuesday ordered a last-minute cancellation of the interior minister's planned television program to seek donations for flood victims. He said the government had enough money to assist them. State-owned media MCOT and Radio Thailand have reported only 19 people killed.

Among the latest victims were two 14-year-old girls who were driving on a motorcycle in Songkhla province when they were washed away by strong currents late Wednesday, said Kaj.

"The rains stopped for about 10 hours but it has been pouring again in the region since late Wednesday, and it has worsened the situation," he said.

Local officials estimate one million people are affected and that it will take at least one month for the floods to recede from most parts of Pattani, Songkhla and Phattalung provinces.

The opposition Democrat party has accused Thaksin of being slow to help flood victims because the southern region didn't support his political party in the last election.

"The government as played down the situation and ignored the plight of the people in southern Thailand because the people in south did not vote for Thai Rak Thai (Thai Love Thai) party," said Sathit Wongnongtoey an opposition lawmaker.

This year's flooding is regarded as the country's worst in 40 years. Whereas in the past floods would affect one province at a time until the monsoon rains ended, this year the flood has covered almost the entire region.

-Edited by Michael Kitchen

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

22-12-05 0509GMT

Matichon, there are lots of articles in Matichon, a mostly accurate indepth style of political reporting; this is translated (not by me)

Flip-flop on mass transit plan - the Yellow Line LRT is gone! - translated and summarized by Wisarut Bholsithi from Matichon, November 8, 2005

Mass transit line routings have been political footballs within the present government.

Initially, we thought that the government was running out of money to implement 500 billion baht mass transit system. However, we found the reasons behind Transport Minister Pheng's words that there are more hidden reasons behind the changes.

1) The budget is still the same 500 billion baht for 10 lines with a 291km distance

2) 60 billion baht for 5 expressways with 65 km distance

3) Only the first 4 lines would be done--the red line commuters first and then the purple line and blue ring. The Green BTS would be later.

4) However, Pheng no longer mentions the Yellow LRT by claming that there are too few passengers despite the fact that there are many people living in the Bang Kapi-Lad Phrao area and a promise by previous Transport Minister Suriya.

This is a sure sign that the policy changes are according to the whim of ministers.

Furthermore, we really feel frightened about the conflict between Wang Nam Yom (headed by Somsak and Suriya) and the "Big House" (headed by Khunying Potjaman and Pheng) that is increasingly intensified along with the discrimination policy against the provinces that do not vote TRT.

Even the provinces that vote for TRT would get no aid if they vote for the wrong factions-- they vote against the "Big House."

The ongoing conflict such as between the "Big House" vs. Sudarat Faction in Bangkok and the "Big House" vs. Wang Namyom have effectively killed the Yellow Line along with the Orange Line despite the ready credit lines for the projects.

Even in Australia, which let's face it is a country of ex convicts and they lost the ashes, so we don't really have to listen to them (and the Economist certainly doesn't!) they had this to say:

Thai PM talks lunacy as political storms brew

November 21, 2005 (The Age)

AdvertisementThaksin Shinawatra has turned to astrology as insurgents and authorities question his Government, writes Connie Levett.

BLAME it on the moon. Thailand's Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, does. From byelection defeats and a vocal opponent who refuses to be gagged to threats of the military getting back into politics, the recent run of bad publicity has taken a significant sheen off his premiership.

"The lunar cycle and the astrological signs are not on my side at the moment," Mr Thaksin said last week. The famously outspoken Prime Minister announced after two recent byelection losses that the Government would give priority for assistance to provinces that had voted for the ruling Thai Rak Thai party.......... [and then babbles on a bit more about other stuff relating to TRT]

Again, all just opinions, there was I believe a direct quote in Thai in the political speeches pre 2005 where Thaksin specifically stated I believe to Or Bor Dtor that provinces and districts voting for TRT would receive support and assistance first. I may need to get a transcript or source for that from somewhere, and my recollection may be faulty - however I am fairly sure this was the scope of it.

Anyone working in Thailand would be well aware why Chor K. failed to get any work during TRT years while Ital Thai, CP, Channel 3, L&H etc all managed to get huge numbers of favours - that's how politics works here.

Why do you think the South got such a rotten rotten deal in the TRT years - I am amazed there would be any dispute on this - spoken or non spoken (although I am 95% sure it was spoken directly).

Edited October 26, 2009 by steveromagnino

[animatic]

Steve, excellent as usual!

Let's do lunch.

Having witnessed the TRT " budget queue" in action,

and nearly been drowned in avoidable flooding caused by

lack of finances for public services, I soon changed my original

like of Thaksin, to distrust. He never regained any trust from me.

From there has the 2006 election debacle played out, and he showed

clear signs of mental instability under pressure, I took a line from

Lewis Carol " Never more, never more, said the raven."

[tomahawk]

Rix, the reason I keep saying the same thing is that was my only point in the first place. You are somehow involved in a whole different argument. This is a common and transparent strategy. If you cannot win argument, you throw in answers to a whole separate argument than you can. I am sorry if I have the effrontery or whatever to disagree with the apparently large group of farangs here who still don't know where they are at. As someone who was involved, in a very mnor and low-level way, in politics in the states, I will tell you it is common practice in politics to take care first of those people who voted for you. I am not saying it is right. It isn't. But I am living in the real world. I do not know where you live. Is it Thailand or the land of Oz? I never said Thaksin was a candidate for sainthood. I said he did good for the common people. Whatever his motives were, self-serving though they may have been, there were some good results. In your world the humanitarians from the army and the rich elites from Bangkok have come in and will now take care of the south and poor people everywhere out of the goodness of their hearts. I do not live in the south but from what I read in the same papers you probably get your information from, things are no better now that Thaksin is gone. Of course I am not expecting to get a lot of support here. I don't really care. I have read enough of this forum to know the I Hate Thaksin Club here far outnumbers anyone else. I am only writing to let people know that not everyone is in the club.

[Rumfoord]

so is that merely an interpretation. a perception and sentiment coming from somebody who don't like Thaksin, right?

Everything in the media is an interpretation.

...

where begins your copy&paste and where it ends? it would also help to link to the source of the quoted text.

anyway the quest was when Thaksin said it and not if he had said it at all. i would like to hear it in original and in its original context.

solemn assertion how many years somebody lived here (or lived slightly disconnected on an island) and self-declared expert status doesn't help so much in the search for the original source.

[rixalex]

Rix, the reason I keep saying the same thing is that was my only point in the first place. You are somehow involved in a whole different argument. This is a common and transparent strategy.

No underhand or mysterious strategy going on here. Just a debate. One which you seem incapable of involving yourself in or responding to. You just repeat the same line over and over like a parrot.

This is how the last few pages of exchange we have had, has gone - not word for word, but a summary:

You: I think there should have been a trial before he was removed from office.

Me: Wasn't possible. Thaksin's control extended far beyond parliament. Just bringing a case to court against him was virtually impossible, let alone getting a guilty vedict. Assets concealment case being a prime example.

You: I think there should have been a trial before he was removed from office.

Me: I've already said, that wasn't possible.

You: I think there should have been a trial before he was removed from office.

Me: I repeat once again. That wasn't possible.

You: I think there should have been a trial before he was removed from office.

Me: <deleted>! NOT POSSIBLE!

And so it went on for a couple more repeat cycles.

Anyway, it's been a fun dance, but i think i'll sit the next one out.

[steveromagnino]

Thairath [(usually pro government) - translated; Nov 1]

After the by-election in four areas and knowing the official vote, the opposition parties are happy that opposition MPs now reach 125. This means they will be able to call no-confidence debates on ministers concerning corruption issues. Meanwhile Thaksin Shinawatra said during his mobile cabinet meeting at Nakornsawan Province that Nakornsawan is the province that trusts TRT and select all TRT MPs so this province will get privileges to help specifically. Provinces that trust TRT less will be helped later in a queue. He said this frankly and revealed to the media what he thought.

Bangkokbiznews [(Krungthep Turakij, at this time was generally neutral leaning anti government as part of The Nation Group) - translated]

Thaksin surveyed at Nakornsawan Province and repeated to take care provinces which elect Thai Rak Thai first and specially. TRT jeered the opposition party that even though they received 125 votes, it will have no effects on politics.

http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok/thaimediaproject/051031.shtml

DJ Thai Flood Deaths Hit 52; Situation Critical - Officials

BANGKOK (AP)--Three weeks of flooding in southern Thailand have left 52 people dead and thousands stranded without provisions in remote areas inaccessible to rescue teams, officials said Thursday.

....Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has played down the severity of the floods, saying Wednesday that "they were not as bad as the tsunami." He hasn't toured the region, saying local officials can handle the situation.

Thaksin on Tuesday ordered a last-minute cancellation of the interior minister's planned television program to seek donations for flood victims. He said the government had enough money to assist them. State-owned media MCOT and Radio Thailand have reported only 19 people killed. ....

The opposition Democrat party has accused Thaksin of being slow to help flood victims because the southern region didn't support his political party in the last election.

"The government as played down the situation and ignored the plight of the people in southern Thailand because the people in south did not vote for Thai Rak Thai (Thai Love Thai) party," said Sathit Wongnongtoey an opposition lawmaker.

This year's flooding is regarded as the country's worst in 40 years. Whereas in the past floods would affect one province at a time until the monsoon rains ended, this year the flood has covered almost the entire region.

-Edited by Michael Kitchen

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

[YOu can get the DJ feed I presume by day.

22-12-05 0509GMT ]

Matichon, [there are lots of articles in Matichon, a mostly accurate indepth style of political reporting; this is translated (not by me) ]

Flip-flop on mass transit plan - the Yellow Line LRT is gone! - [translated and summarized by Wisarut Bholsithi from Matichon, November 8, 2005; I've read the original in Matichon, you can refer to the Thai version easily enough by day referenced.]

Mass transit line routings have been political footballs within the present government.

Initially, we thought that the government was running out of money to implement 500 billion baht mass transit system. However, we found the reasons behind Transport Minister Pheng's words that there are more hidden reasons behind the changes.

1) The budget is still the same 500 billion baht for 10 lines with a 291km distance

2) 60 billion baht for 5 expressways with 65 km distance

3) Only the first 4 lines would be done--the red line commuters first and then the purple line and blue ring. The Green BTS would be later.

4) However, Pheng no longer mentions the Yellow LRT by claming that there are too few passengers despite the fact that there are many people living in the Bang Kapi-Lad Phrao area and a promise by previous Transport Minister Suriya.

This is a sure sign that the policy changes are according to the whim of ministers.

Furthermore, we really feel frightened about the conflict between Wang Nam Yom (headed by Somsak and Suriya) and the "Big House" (headed by Khunying Potjaman and Pheng) that is increasingly intensified along with the discrimination policy against the provinces that do not vote TRT.

Even the provinces that vote for TRT would get no aid if they vote for the wrong factions-- they vote against the "Big House."

The ongoing conflict such as between the "Big House" vs. Sudarat Faction in Bangkok and the "Big House" vs. Wang Namyom have effectively killed the Yellow Line along with the Orange Line despite the ready credit lines for the projects.

Thai PM talks lunacy as political storms brew

November 21, 2005 (The Age)

AdvertisementThaksin Shinawatra has turned to astrology as insurgents and authorities question his Government, writes Connie Levett.

BLAME it on the moon. Thailand's Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, does. From byelection defeats and a vocal opponent who refuses to be gagged to threats of the military getting back into politics, the recent run of bad publicity has taken a significant sheen off his premiership.

"The lunar cycle and the astrological signs are not on my side at the moment," Mr Thaksin said last week. The famously outspoken Prime Minister announced after two recent byelection losses that the Government would give priority for assistance to provinces that had voted for the ruling Thai Rak Thai party.......... [and then babbles on a bit more about other stuff relating to TRT]

http://www.theage.com.au/

again, if you want to find it, search by day by issue.

[me talking now - so this is all clear then, right? Everything in [] is something I've added or not directly in the article, everything else is word for word. I will attempt to find the exact quote, I think I may have it in an old Matichon or similar at home; as with many other articles, makes great reading, especially the parts about the megaprojects, which it is easy to forget was a major political football as TRT attempted to gain control of the BTS and the underground, and in the end only really managed to kick out the Chor K. kids from running advertising in the underground, which was given to How Come Entertainment (Thaksin's son) despite a signed contract and being a done deal already to TRIads]

[jayboy]

Steve, excellent as usual!

Let's do lunch.

Having witnessed the TRT " budget queue" in action,

and nearly been drowned in avoidable flooding caused by

lack of finances for public services, I soon changed my original

like of Thaksin, to distrust. He never regained any trust from me.

From there has the 2006 election debacle played out, and he showed

clear signs of mental instability under pressure, I took a line from

Lewis Carol " Never more, never more, said the raven."

The quote is from Edgar Alan Poe I think.

[tomahawk]

Now the plane has landed and there is dancing. Thaksin is dancing with Pygmalion probably. There was no trial for Thaksin because there could be no fair trials when Thaksin was PM, according to Rix, but now he is gone everything is great and so all the trials are fair. What makes anyone think that if when Thaksin was in power he could make the trial go however he wanted, but in the new order here the government cannot do the same. No matter who is in charge, this is still Thailand.

[webfact]

Steve, excellent as usual!

Let's do lunch.

Having witnessed the TRT " budget queue" in action,

and nearly been drowned in avoidable flooding caused by

lack of finances for public services, I soon changed my original

like of Thaksin, to distrust. He never regained any trust from me.

From there has the 2006 election debacle played out, and he showed

clear signs of mental instability under pressure, I took a line from

Lewis Carol " Never more, never more, said the raven."

The quote is from Edgar Alan Poe I think.

In the poem "The Raven," by Edgar Allen Poe the recurring line is "Quoth the Raven: Nevermore."

[samran]

Just back from the beach.

I have never questioned anybody's intelligence, and don't really understand what you mean by "veracity of thought processes": on the face of it, it's meaningless expression but I will respond if you explain.

You must have a short memory….it was only a few days ago

Challenging and intellectually demanding journals or forums aren't for everybody.Don't worry about it.

I do wonder whether you have close familiarity with academic debate given your use of language like " critisism of a site full of wannabe academic blowhards (in my opinion), some who are trying to be controversial for the sake of being controversial".

No, not familiar at all. Only an undergrad degree, an honours year, one year tutoring/lecturing and a masters, all from one of Australia’s better university’s plus a year on exchange at a well known Thai university. I’ve also just completed a piece of work going over 2 decades of academic work in a particular area. Earlier in the year completed a project with AIT academics and we put proposals (in Thai of course) to the permanent secretary of a large ministry and about 80 of his closest advisors. Work was also presented to the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company, where I was personally flown to present.

So no, no exposure or familiarity at all.

So ignoring the ranting and muddled thinking it's clear that there is something about NM that deeply disturbs you and the 60 million Thais you apparently feel entitled to speak for. As you imply, there is a definite theme on NM on questioning the greed, incompetence and selfishness of a self serving elite.

What you seem to be repeating is that weary old canard that foreigners however knowledgeable and perceptive cannot possibly understand the sensitivities of Thailand.You also talk about the blunt manner in which opinions are articulated to the point that, if more widely circulated, would anger all Thais.I don't really understand what you are getting at but my friend, since you so kindly addressed me in that manner, I suggest you get out more.You'd be surprised how many millions of Thais don't believe fairy stories any more.

It is got nothing to do with fairy stories…

Blind freddy knows that some of the stuff that is written on NM would antagonise 60 million Thai’s, taking away from whatever core message they may have… (BTW: If the term ‘blind freddy’ is not enough academic enough for you, lets use ‘self evident’ which as I recall was good enough a term to be used in the US Declaration of Independence, so hopefully that is acceptable for you).

If you don’t believe me, I suggest the moderators of the site move to Thailand, host the site in Thailand and then go from village to village posting the thoughts from the site everywhere they can, getting on television and doing the same – and publicly attributing credit to the authors. The ANU academics running the site should move to a reputable Thai university (Chula, Thamasat, or god forbid, maybe even Ram) and start re-publishing the stuff on their site in Thai. Lets see how long they last.

The site seems to be a conduit for people to make cheap shots at people or groups they tend to have a grudge against.

There is a thread running there, which I can’t talk about too much lest I break forum rules. Nevertheless it questions a German university awarding an academic medal to a certain person who can’t be mentioned on this website and whether the award is deserved or not.

The moderators of the site might think that they are being a bit ‘cheeky’ but all they remind me of are parliamentarians who use parliamentary privilege to utter potentially libellous claims which they’d never mutter outside the confines of parliament. Here, they are hiding behind other peoples posts, contributions, the fact that it is hosted on academic website, outside of Thailand.

Basically what the NM moderators are partaking in is character assassination dressed up a ‘debate’ or ‘discussion’, a debate which has no academic merit which I can discern (what is the purpose of NM site again? Muckracking or something else?). They are doing so against persons who for a variety of reasons (constitutionally, by convention, not lowering themselves to respond to mud slingers…take your pick) can not respond to charges against them. How is that ‘fair’ in any way?

Someone else said, the are ‘getting better’. That may be, but in my book they’ve got a long way to go.

[LawnGnome]

Basically what the NM moderators are partaking in is character assassination dressed up a....

Just a note. I tried to have Thaksin's character assassinated, but it turned out he didn't have any to begin with.