Confession

[kaosoi]

Hello,

In the Catholic church there is a concept of sin, then self reflection and confession to absolve those sins.

Is there a Buddhist equivalent? Are practitioners encouraged to reflect on their actions as right or wrong?

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm only beginning to understand parts of Buddhism, but it is my impression that meditation leads to internal reflection which leads one to self-improvement- the goal would be to learn how to judge for oneself what is right and wrong, though having other people give you advice which helps you on the way can be valuable. I suppose as one reflects, deciding what to do to rectify past wrongs would come up- as far as 'penitence' is concerned.

[camerata]

In the Catholic church there is a concept of sin, then self reflection and confession to absolve those sins.

Is there a Buddhist equivalent? Are practitioners encouraged to reflect on their actions as right or wrong?

In Buddhism you can't use confession to absolve your sins. Your bad actions will always have a corresponding bad result in the future. What you can do is make sure you never do the same thing again and try to do good actions to get some good results in the future. Sometimes this is called "atonement" in English.

[fabianfred]

Because good karma does not cancel out bad karma we all have amounts of both awaiting their chance to bear fruit.

When we get the chance to meet the Dhamma and know the truth about how our actions can cause suffering we can become determined to stop by keeping the precepts. Then our good actions can start to reduce the chance for our bad karma to have an effect.

The Buddha compared it to a spoonful of salt in a glass of water which makes it undrinkable, but added to a river goes unnoticed. (salt being bad karma and water good)

Even the devas in the higher realms have precepts....... Hiri Ottappa ....... a feeling of shame when recalling past actions, and determination not to create more suffering.

[rockyysdt]

The Buddha compared it to a spoonful of salt in a glass of water which makes it undrinkable, but added to a river goes unnoticed. (salt being bad karma and water good)

Is daily sitting practice of one hour akin to a trickle when a river is called for?

[chakran]

Hello,

In the Catholic church there is a concept of sin, then self reflection and confession to absolve those sins.

Is there a Buddhist equivalent? Are practitioners encouraged to reflect on their actions as right or wrong?

You can try this and do a reflection......from the Nava Puja....

Whatever unskilful or cruel acts I have done in the past.

I will confess them all before the Buddha.

Whatever unskilful acts that I have done by not caring for my parents, by disregarding the Buddha, by disregarding the good;

whatever unskilful acts I have done by being obessed with authority, obessed with status, obessed with youth;

whatever unskilful acts I have done with thoughts, words or deeds even accidentally;

whatever unskilful acts I have done due to crooked thinking, with the mind darkened by ignorance, under the influence of evil friends,

by being misled by desires, for fun or enjoyment, because of anxiety, anger or greed for wealth;

whatever unskilful acts I have done by mixing with low men, due to envy, greed, deceit or depression;

whatever unskilful deeds I have done by not controlling my desires or through fear of danger;

whatever unskilful acts I have done because of flightly mind, passion, anger, hunger or thirst;

whatever unskilful acts I have done to acquire food, drink, clothing or sexual pleasure or because of impure thoughts;

whatever unskilful acts I have done by eith body, speech or mind, I confess them all.

Whatever disrespect I may have shown to the Buddha, Dhamma or the Sangha, I confess it all.

What ever disrespect I may have shown to the Paccekabuddha or the Bodhisattvas, I confess it all.

If I have shown disrespect to those who teach the good Dhamma or any good beings, I confess it all.

Whatever unskilful acts I have done through ignorance, folly, pride or arrogance, through greed, hatred or delusion. I confess it all.

The above is for self reflections only.....

Hope this helps to give a free mind......

May all beings be well and happy always......

[rockyysdt]

Hello,

In the Catholic church there is a concept of sin, then self reflection and confession to absolve those sins.

Is there a Buddhist equivalent? Are practitioners encouraged to reflect on their actions as right or wrong?

I think in Buddhism the purpose of reflecting sin or unskillful behaviour is to be mindful in order to refrain from or reduce future sin or unskillful behaviour.

In Buddhism you must pay for your sin or unskillful behaviour through suffering or similar.

With Catholicism all you need do is to confess your sins through Jesus Christ & all is absolved.

The catch 22 is that Christianity allows you to sin or perform unskillful behaviour such as killing under specified situations.

[fabianfred]

The Buddha compared it to a spoonful of salt in a glass of water which makes it undrinkable, but added to a river goes unnoticed. (salt being bad karma and water good)

Is daily sitting practice of one hour akin to a trickle when a river is called for?

of the ten ways to generate merit, meditation, especially Vipassana, create the greatest amount, because they are so difficult and time consuming and need the most effort. This is the river.....

[chutai]

No need for confession But self-reflection yes,

In Buddhism it's more like surfing. You sometimes fall off, but then get back on the surf board and try again.

[Xangsamhua]

The Christian churches differ in regard to the effects or erasure of sin after the sinner has confessed and sought absolution. In the Latin tradition (Roman Catholic, Marionite, Eastern Rites), it is understood that absolution following Confession (now called Penance or Reconciliation) does not erase the sinner's culpability and this must be worked off (purged) in Purgatory. The period of time spent in Purgatory is usually envisaged as being a very long one; hence, over time, various means (devotions, specific prayers, intercessions, etc) were thought of to shorten this period. (As we know, this all became subject to corruption and became the stimulus for Luther's protest against various Church practices of his time; though devotions, intercessions, good works, etc for remission of time in Purgatory are still seen as commendable practice). In summary, regardless of what other Christians may believe, Roman Catholics believe they will be held accountable in Purgatory for their sins, regardless of how remorseful they may have been and their having received absolution from a priest.

I understand that early in the emergence of the Buddhist Sangha, a form of confession to the assembled monks became normal practice where the need arose. Sometimes it took place in the context of someone having been found to have offended; in other cases where reconciliation was being sought and one or both parties would acknowledge their faults before the assembled sangha. I think this is still the case and, if so, is similar to the form of penance practised in the early Christian churches (pre-6th century), when a penitent would confess to the congregation and would be punished by suspension of certain entitlements and, possibly, excommunication for a period of time. After the fall of Rome, practices varied from one place to another in the Christian domains until the practice of private confession to non-ordained (lay) monks became popular in Ireland and this practice was taken to the Continent by Irish missionaries. Eventually, ordination became a requirement for granting absolution and "Confession" as we know it became widespread until the latter part of the 20th century (it's virtually defunct in Western societies, though still popular among Catholics in Thailand).

[camerata]

I think this is still the case and, if so, is similar to the form of penance practised in the early Christian churches (pre-6th century), when a penitent would confess to the congregation and would be punished by suspension of certain entitlements and, possibly, excommunication for a period of time.

But it isn't really "similar" because in Buddhism there is no suspension of entitlements and the confession is only to fellow monks. A monk can't get busted down to novice, for example. For most offences, you simply admit them (presumably resolving not to make the mistake again) and move on. For a few of the most serious offences, you have to disrobe because you are no longer fit to be a monk. With those ones, a monk is more likely to be caught out than to confess voluntarily.

[Xangsamhua]

I think this is still the case and, if so, is similar to the form of penance practised in the early Christian churches (pre-6th century), when a penitent would confess to the congregation and would be punished by suspension of certain entitlements and, possibly, excommunication for a period of time.

But it isn't really "similar" because in Buddhism there is no suspension of entitlements and the confession is only to fellow monks. A monk can't get busted down to novice, for example. For most offences, you simply admit them (presumably resolving not to make the mistake again) and move on. For a few of the most serious offences, you have to disrobe because you are no longer fit to be a monk. With those ones, a monk is more likely to be caught out than to confess voluntarily.

Yes, you're right - not similar in that regard. Only similar in that the "confession" was/is to the assembly rather than the private confession that later superseded the public one in Christianity. Also not similar in respect of the "intended audience". In the Sangha, a public confession or admission is intended only for the assembly; in the early Christian churches (and in the later private confessional), God is also an implicit auditor.

[Brucenkhamen]

Yes, you're right - not similar in that regard. Only similar in that the "confession" was/is to the assembly rather than the private confession that later superseded the public one in Christianity. Also not similar in respect of the "intended audience". In the Sangha, a public confession or admission is intended only for the assembly; in the early Christian churches (and in the later private confessional), God is also an implicit auditor.

The impression I got from western Ajahn Chah monks was that every patimokha day monks would get together and confess every little slip up to the other monks they were living with at the time.

However where I ordained, every patimokha day we paired off with another monk and went through a chant in pali together which was basically and blanket confession and commitment to do better, we kept pairing off and repeating this formula for half an hour or so. So nobody knew if or what you might have done wrong.

I'm not sure if the former is in fact practiced or I misunderstood.

[rockyysdt]

However where I ordained, every patimokha day we paired off with another monk and went through a chant in pali together which was basically a blanket confession and commitment to do better, we kept pairing off and repeating this formula for half an hour or so. So nobody knew if or what you might have done wrong. I'm not sure if the former is in fact practiced or I misunderstood.

I think this option is safer as the tendency for an unskillful person is to withhold some of the detail which would have an effect of adding to ones khamma on a daily basis.

[honu]

I was surprised to learn that Thai Buddhism includes a few rituals that involve making wishes. It makes sense in the context of the rest of the religion but not as much related to the rest of Buddhist ideology.

Come to think of it the Thai Buddhist practice of prayer also doesn't add up to me; it's awfully close to that of Christians asking God for things, but without the ideological framework that makes sense of that. The standard answer might be that religions can easily evolve to be more grounded in superstition and that Thai Buddhist practices draw on a lot of different belief systems, but can anyone do better?

[camerata]

I was surprised to learn that Thai Buddhism includes a few rituals that involve making wishes. It makes sense in the context of the rest of the religion but not as much related to the rest of Buddhist ideology.

What kind of wishes? There's a big difference between, say, wishing for a winning lottery ticket for oneself and wishing that all beings be healthy and happy.

[honu]

Seems like the most ordinary kind of wishes, like when you see a shooting star or when two people say the same thing at the same time and then hook pinkies and make a wish. I guess you could be as altruistic as you tend to be (to ask for money or world peace) but the process stays the same.

I don't mean to be too critical of the more superstitious aspects of Thai Buddhism; that stuff is a part of broader Thai culture that just got mixed in. But if enough of it gets integrated deeply enough then the rest of the fairly practical teachings can get watered down or replaced. Wishing on a shooting star wouldn't hurt anything and formulating good intentions more formally should generally be fine but at the same time some of that runs counter to using considered self-examination as an approach to dealing with reality. I've known monks here (in Bangkok) that weren't that comfortable talking about the core concepts of Buddhism because for them the rituals and the stories were at the core, and not necessarily in the sense that the Buddha walking around and talking as a newborn was some sort of parable.

In America that mainstream New Age stuff is getting more popular now. One friend claims "I'm a spiritual entity stuck in a material body". No problem tapping into good vibes and all that but if she's really living by that she might want to try and figure out if she's actually saying anything, or if she's assuming something else that she isn't really expressing.